65 replies to this topic

[Eric Dunsdon]

Its funny what impressed our mums. After I'd returned from a Crystal Palace meeting in 1957 and told her about having to spoken to Stirling Moss and Roy Salvadori she was more impressed about my chat with Lance Reventlow the son of  the lady who owned 'Woolies' as she described her.

[dolomite]

New Autosport podcast about Graham Hill
https://www.autospor...derrated-legend

[MCS]

Not his greatest race by any stretch of the imagination, but he did win in Formula Two in 1972 as well, at Monza, by dint of finishing first in both of the Lotteria heats. The competition wasn't top rank though - with all due respect - but Jarier, Purley and the Brambilla brothers were there.

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

Mosport(now, Canadian Tire Motorsport Park)opened in 1961 and its rather remote location was something of a headache regarding accommodations for visiting international talent competing in the Player's 200(June)and the Grand Prix(September).  Just about the nearest port of call of any degree of class was in Bowmanville at a motel called, The Flying Dutchman.  It was a good half hour's drive down secondary roads some sections of which would have done credit to the Nurburgring.

 

In the mid 60's, my late Mother was cashier at the gift shop at the Dutchman.  After a shift there one day, she related that a distinguished gentleman stopped in to inquire about exchanging some pound notes for Canadian dollars.  Unfortunately, that wasn't possible and he was directed to drop into one of the banks uptown for a chance at the exchange.  From what I can only guess at having dear 'ol mum see some images of drivers in one of my many car magazines of the day, she recognized the gent as Graham and asked him such.  He confirmed this and Mom said how I was such a fan of him as well as others like Jimmy and Dan.  I expect that GH gave a wry smile and said something derogatory about the others.  'Ah well, no accounting for taste, I suppose.'    Mom related that I was expressing an interest in racing some day and she asked for his autograph for me.  He dutifully signed off on a piece of paper with the adder, 'Good Luck'.

 

Top bloke, imo.

[D28]

  'Ah well, no accounting for taste, I suppose.'    Mom related that I was expressing an interest in racing some day and she asked for his autograph for me.  He dutifully signed off on a piece of paper with the adder, 'Good Luck'.

 

Top bloke, imo.

 

Great story, thanks for this. Just wondering if you can put a race to that story. GH drove a Lotus 23B for Ian Walker in the 1963 Can Grand Prix. and it was indecently fast, he finished just a couple seconds back of winner Pedro Rodriguez in a Ferrari 250P and ahead of many bigger cars. Could that be the one? 

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

Hi, D28...

 

No, I don't think that it would have been the '63 running of the GP at Mosport.  I would have been just 14 years of age at the time and it strikes me that their encounter and my autograph would have been a couple of years or so later.

 

As for that '63 event, there is something that's been bothering me for quite some time.  I have a snap taken in the paddock after the race with my little Kodak showing what I labeled as, 'g_hill_brabham_bt5'.  I'm not sure now where I got that data.  The car was yellow with stripes down the middle, sported #8 and had clear headlight covers sans lights.  I've long since given up on posting pix here otherwise...  On the very excellent website...

 

http://www.racingspo...3-09-28-008.jpg

 

...we see a listing for car #8 but it appears to be to my eyes a BT8 carrying #18 with Frank Gardner listed as the driver.  Something not quite right here.  As a further head scratcher, I recall the article in Road & Track magazine that showed a pix of Graham aboard what is clearly a Lotus 23.  Whatever did I take a pix of and what is car #18 doing as a listing on the RSC website?

 

May I send you the photo in question as a PM for you to post?

 

I can relate another rather amusing incident involving a Canadian driver at the Flying Dutchman but perhaps, another day. 

[D28]

 

 

Hi, D28...

 

No, I don't think that it would have been the '63 running of the GP at Mosport.  I would have been just 14 years of age at the time and it strikes me that their encounter and my autograph would have been a couple of years or so later.

 

As for that '63 event, there is something that's been bothering me for quite some time.  I have a snap taken in the paddock after the race with my little Kodak showing what I labeled as, 'g_hill_brabham_bt5'.  I'm not sure now where I got that data.  The car was yellow with stripes down the middle, sported #8 and had clear headlight covers sans lights.  I've long since given up on posting pix here otherwise...  On the very excellent website...

 

http://www.racingspo...3-09-28-008.jpg

 

...we see a listing for car #8 but it appears to be to my eyes a BT8 carrying #18 with Frank Gardner listed as the driver.  Something not quite right here.  As a further head scratcher, I recall the article in Road & Track magazine that showed a pix of Graham aboard what is clearly a Lotus 23.  Whatever did I take a pix of and what is car #18 doing as a listing on the RSC website?

 

May I send you the photo in question as a PM for you to post?

 

I can relate another rather amusing incident involving a Canadian driver at the Flying Dutchman but perhaps, another day. 

 

OK this link has photos of the Race in question:  http://www.racingspo...1963-09-28.html

 

The Lotus 23B was yellow w stripes #1 entered by Ian Walker. Also the BT5 was driven by Frank Gardner and carried # 8. I happen to have on hand the R&T issue with the report and my memory for 55 years sometimes is correct. And the reason I remember it is because it was way quicker than any Lotus 23 I had seen, Hill put this 2l car 3rd on the grid. I actually used this site to confirm my memory, it has all the Canadian Sports Car Championship races:  

http://www.wsrp.cz/canadasc1967.html

 

Possibly your race might have been the 67 Canadian Grand Prix F1 race?

If you wish to  send a PM try it, always willing to share stories of those days.

Edited by D28, 12 November 2018 - 02:35.

[Victor]

During the 60's I was living in Angola. Could it be more far away from the international motor racing scene? However, although my parents were still fixed on the 50's and said things like "That guy thinks he drives like a Fangio!" for me and my brother Clark was the hero, all the other drivers where there just to be beaten by him.

Only later on I discovered that many other drivers, like Graham, were also top class material.

[D-Type]

During the 60's I was living in Angola. Could it be more far away from the international motor racing scene? However, although my parents were still fixed on the 50's and said things like "That guy thinks he drives like a Fangio!" for me and my brother Clark was the hero, all the other drivers where there just to be beaten by him.

Only later on I discovered that many other drivers, like Graham, were also top class material.

Your assessment is correct: Hill etc were top class material but Clark was in a class by himself, one class higher.

[rl1856]

Good but not great; among the greats but not the greatest.  Whatever.  2 WDC, Indy, LeMans should be enough for anyone.    Objectively speaking he suffered in comparison to Clark, then Stewart, then hanging on too long.  Many have said he should have retired after winning LeMans in 1972.  

 

Hill was arguably at his peak during the 1.5L formula.  He and BRM were as good as Lotus, just not as successful.  Clark made Lotus, and everyone knew he was the best.  After Goodwood 1962, who else won a GP (or non championship) race driving a Lotus ?    BRM on the other hand delivered a car and engine that at times was as good as Lotus, and at times maybe better.   Maybe I am on tenuous ground, but some of Hill's success at the time was due to the quality of the car.   Hill/Ginther finished 1st 2nd 3 times, meaning that absent Hill, Ginther would have 3 more GP victories to his credit !   While he was a good driver, I don't think anyone would rate him in the top 5.  The car was good enough to elevate a mid field driver, and make a good driver look even better.

 

To the original point- I am surprised there was only 1 mention of South Africa 1970.   His first drive after his horrific crash at Watkins Glen.  He had to be lifted into the car, and carried away from it.  But he finished in the points by shear determination.   I think that race epitomizes Hill.   His determination to succeed is what set him apart, and allowed him to make the most of his talent.   Many "better" drivers did not achieve what he achieved.

 

South Africa 1970 should be near the top.  So should the 1962 German GP.  Many point to Jarama 1968- another example of his determination.   

[Tim Murray]

Hill/Ginther finished 1st 2nd 3 times ...

4 times

Agree absolutely about South Africa 1970.

[bradbury west]

OT a bit, Manfred and D28, do not forget that NGH drove a 23 at Pacific North West GP in 62 for Bob Winkelmann. Google Winkelmann on e bay and there is a photo of it.

Best drive? Blasting the V 16 BRM within an inch of its life, reportedly, at Kyalami?, using up almost the entire supply of fuel brought for its various demos on that tour, running at a reputed 10/11,000 rpm.
Roger Lund

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

Hi, bradbury w.  Yes, I was aware of this and more to the point, to my astonishment of discovery a couple of years ago, Graham did the gig at Mosport on the Saturday, September 28, took a pass on the post-race banquet(I'm assuming this), caught a red-eye flight west to make the start at Kent in the Winkelmann Lotus on Sunday, September 29.  Talk about a weekend warrior! 

 

Up to about 1970, Canada had as law, 'The Lord's Day Act'.  This prohibited commercial enterprise and sporting events on Sundays so prior to the law being scrapped, all events at Mosport went off on a Saturday.

 

Edit: Forgot to post the links...

 

http://www.racingspo...1963-09-28.html

 

http://www.racingspo...1963-09-29.html

Edited by Manfred Cubenoggin, 21 November 2018 - 12:28.

[D28]

Hi, bradbury w.  Yes, I was aware of this and more to the point, to my astonishment of discovery a couple of years ago, Graham did the gig at Mosport on the Saturday, September 28, took a pass on the post-race banquet(I'm assuming this), caught a red-eye flight west to make the start at Kent in the Winkelmann Lotus on Sunday, September 29.  Talk about a weekend warrior! 

 

Up to about 1970, Canada had as law, 'The Lord's Day Act'.  This prohibited commercial enterprise and sporting events on Sundays so prior to the law being scrapped, all events at Mosport went off on a Saturday.

 

 

Thanks for this, I didn't know about GH's second race and had forgotten about the LDA, I forget when the races switched to Sun.

[bradbury west]

Manfred, thanks for the links. Hill beat some good cars to finish second, interesting he had a 2ltr Climax in the back, I had forgotten that. And the field in the second race was a wonderful mix of period cars, incl Innes Ireland in the Rosebud 19 Ferrari.
RL

[D28]

Manfred, thanks for the links. Hill beat some good cars to finish second, interesting he had a 2ltr Climax in the back, I had forgotten that. And the field in the second race was a wonderful mix of period cars, incl Innes Ireland in the Rosebud 19 Ferrari.
RL

Hill finished 3rd in heat 1, but DNF in heat 2 with a busted gearbox. So did not figure in combined results (see link).