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McLaren return to Indy 500 in 2019 with Alonso


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#51 jonpollak

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 22:24

Zak Brown quote of the day....

“This will be done by McLaren Racing,” Brown said. “It’s a whole separate racing team that will be created and we are a large racing team with a lot of resources and I am extremely confident or we would not have entered, that we can give maximum effort in our F1 effort as well as Indy without one compromising the other.

“It is going to be people that are not currently on our Formula 1 team. It will be built up from relationships that we have. It’ll be a new McLaren entry.

“I don’t think we had an original plan. We’ve always had a desire to go as McLaren Racing. Last time we did it on such short notice I think it would have been impossible, it was six weeks between announcing and racing, and you can’t build up a race team that quickly.”

Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 10 November 2018 - 22:25.


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#52 Vielleicht

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 23:02

Sounds like less-rushed McLaren Racing entry built on the foundations of the original Andretti tie up then?



#53 Talisman

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 23:14

Wow what a pleasant experience to read this thread without the first post being Leclerc whishing Alonso to die in a fire or something like he usually does.


Why would he? He made it through to Q3 while Alonso couldn’t even make it out of Q1.

Interesting news especially since the press release had very little detail. Why announce it now when they don’t feel comfortable revealing who will provide the racing services for McLaren?

#54 BuddyHolly

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 23:21

Mixed feelings tbh, I honestly wish him the best and would love it if he won (and I'll try my best to watch)

but also it makes me nervous, you can have such huge accidents there. 



#55 MastaKink

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 23:31

Why would he? He made it through to Q3 while Alonso couldn’t even make it out of Q1.

Interesting news especially since the press release had very little detail. Why announce it now when they don’t feel comfortable revealing who will provide the racing services for McLaren?

 

He's talking about the poster LeClerc.



#56 stewie

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 23:57

I am on a tour that allows me to get a sub in for race weekend !

Jp

Remind me not to pick up the phone to your wonderful offer of covering a great job next year, suspiciously during the latter part of May...

#57 Fatgadget

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 02:32

Makes a modicum of sense. Admitted failing to run  a sharp end F1 team. Why not give Indy car a go eh. Come to think of it?..Any Indy /Cart team transitioned the other way?..One way traffic then...



#58 PeterScandlyn

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 02:52

McLaren should only return to Indy when they build their own chassis.

 

Until then, thread title is misleading. Should be along the lines of 'McLaren name returns to Indy'  :mad:



#59 Andrew Hope

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 02:55

McLaren (just the letters) returns to the Brickyard (without the bricks)

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#60 RPM40

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 03:21

McLaren should only return to Indy when they build their own chassis.

 

Until then, thread title is misleading. Should be along the lines of 'McLaren name returns to Indy'  :mad:

 

No teams build indycar chassis.



#61 RacingGreen

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 04:03

Good stuff. :cool:  :up: 
 

 

Yes, although, as always when discussing this matter, Montoya merely won the Monaco GP, not the F1 WDC.
 
Jacques Villeneuve (who never won the Monaco GP, but did win the F1 WDC) came very close when he finished 2nd at Le Mans in 2008, on the lead lap!

 

 

Ah yes, the old 'is the F1 leg of the Triple Crown Monaco or the WDC?' question

 

From McLaren's website today, "Competing in his second Indy 500, Fernando will attempt to become only the second driver ever to secure world motorsport’s unofficial Triple Crown: victories at the Monaco Formula 1 Grand Prix, the 24 Hours of Le Mans, and the Indianapolis 500. "
 
Shame on you McLaren you should know better.


#62 jonpollak

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 05:36

Just seen this !
73-DA45-B9-7-A2-D-419-E-A0-D1-75-C2-D792
Hysterical...

#63 noriaki

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 06:24

Come to think of it?..Any Indy /Cart team transitioned the other way?..One way traffic then...


Dan Gurney's AAR, Penske, Parnelli, Haas (the C. Haas edition that is). Not entirely sure if Theodore Racing fielded entries @ USAC before doing so in F1 as well.

Edited by noriaki, 11 November 2018 - 06:24.


#64 messy

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 06:33

Still can't help feeling that if Alonso had kept his thoughts on the Honda engine in the back of his McLaren a bit more to himself, he'd be about to embark on a full Indycar season now as he clearly wanted. Still, glad he gets another crack at the 500.

#65 loki

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 06:55

If they don't satellite with Andretti, Penske or Ganassi the chances go down dramatically.  Harding can't provide anything of note, they're getting it from Andretti.  A Carpenter tie in may work but I see Ed wanting a 500 win rather than taking the cash to field an Alonso seat.  Ed is still Team Hulman so he's going to be OK in terms of funding at least the 500.  McLaren are going to build a competitive, one car effort from scratch for the 500?  Good luck with that.  You can get all the bits to put it together, the shop, car, crew, etc but getting it to be a cohesive operation as a one off with no previous data may not even make Bump Day.  My guess would be a more stealth satellite operation where it looks like McLaren but is really Andretti.  Which could be why Andretti deleted that tweet.



#66 Muppetmad

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 07:48

I would have loved to have seen Alonso commit to the full season, but a 500 bid is always good news. I look forward to it  :up:



#67 blacky

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 08:02

Still can't help feeling that if Alonso had kept his thoughts on the Honda engine in the back of his McLaren a bit more to himself, he'd be about to embark on a full Indycar season now as he clearly wanted. Still, glad he gets another crack at the 500.

 

AMuS had some stories in the past few weeks that he doesn't want to travel between Europe and the US for so many races and that in general he's not a fan of the cars. Personally I think that he returns to Indy for only 2 reasons:

 

1. triple crown

2. special atmosphere of this race


Edited by blacky, 11 November 2018 - 08:03.


#68 PayasYouRace

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 09:30

Glad to hear that Fernando will have another crack at it. He'll find it the hardest of the 3 to win (his own comments about his Le Mans win not withstanding), so I wish him all the best.



#69 kosmos

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 09:32

Great news, don't expect him to win but looking forward to watch it. The engine is a mystery?.



#70 RPM40

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 11:30

Glad to hear that Fernando will have another crack at it. He'll find it the hardest of the 3 to win (his own comments about his Le Mans win not withstanding), so I wish him all the best.

 

I feel he'd be better off with a full season. More prepped with the car.



#71 PayasYouRace

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 12:04

I feel he'd be better off with a full season. More prepped with the car.


Indianapolis is fairly specialised in terms of set up and driving style, and there’s nothing before Indy on the calendar that compares to it anyway. It won’t be a disadvantage.

#72 midgrid

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 12:07

Not to mention the amount of testing that goes on during the Month of May.

#73 RPM40

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 12:10

Indianapolis is fairly specialised in terms of set up and driving style, and there’s nothing before Indy on the calendar that compares to it anyway. It won’t be a disadvantage.


It’s just a shame. While I like Indy I’d have loved to see Alonso run the full season.

The whole thing is just a bit unusual to me. He was interested but something deterred him.

#74 Sterzo

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 13:12

The whole thing is just a bit unusual to me. He was interested but something deterred him.

I'm guessing at the reason, but isn't he contracted through half of 2019 to Toyota in the WEC?



#75 Clatter

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 13:50

Zak Brown quote of the day....

“This will be done by McLaren Racing,” Brown said. “It’s a whole separate racing team that will be created and we are a large racing team with a lot of resources and I am extremely confident or we would not have entered, that we can give maximum effort in our F1 effort as well as Indy without one compromising the other.

“It is going to be people that are not currently on our Formula 1 team. It will be built up from relationships that we have. It’ll be a new McLaren entry.

“I don’t think we had an original plan. We’ve always had a desire to go as McLaren Racing. Last time we did it on such short notice I think it would have been impossible, it was six weeks between announcing and racing, and you can’t build up a race team that quickly.”

Jp

 


Listened to his interview on Sky and I don't believe they can do multiple race series and give their best to all of them. I fear it's going to be a long long time before we see them at the top F1 again, if ever.

#76 kumo7

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 14:00

Not to mention the amount of testing that goes on during the Month of May.

I imagine that the exposure on it in USA will be some scale will be somewhere we have never seen in formula 1. I mean I am just taking wild guess from what I have seen in the last year.

Testing alone will make the name McLaren repeated thousand of times and will be said the great racing team returns to Indianapolis challenge...

Hope they will make it and this will be a big thing.

 

I am whole against Alonso taking the full season at Indy. The series is indeed a class of its own in all aspects.



#77 garoidb

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 14:01

I feel he'd be better off with a full season. More prepped with the car.

 

There are no oval races before the Indy 500. If there was, he should do them (and he probably would have).



#78 SwadF1

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 14:25

🤩🤩🤩 all the best Fernando

#79 Nonesuch

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 14:47

I'm guessing at the reason, but isn't he contracted through half of 2019 to Toyota in the WEC?

 

Yes, he is. But there are only a couple of races in 2019; Sebring on March 15th, Spa on May 4th and then Le Mans on June 15th and 16th.

 

None of these clash with an Indycar race.

 

Perhaps more importantly: being tied to Toyota is a bit of issue when you want to race in a series where half the cars are powered by Honda.


Edited by Nonesuch, 11 November 2018 - 14:48.


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#80 red stick

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 15:33

Perhaps more importantly: being tied to Toyota is a bit of issue when you want to race in a series where half the cars are powered by Honda.

 

We keep saying this.  Why do we keep thinking this?  Toyota doesn't race in IndyCar, so there's no direct competition.  Honda doesn't compete in WEC.  And Penske and Ganassi show that using different engines in different series (Chevy/Ford/Honda, in different iterations in different series) is not a bar.  Does Toyota really care what propels Alonso in IndyCar?  Is there a statement somewhere I've missed?



#81 Nonesuch

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 15:53

We keep saying this.  Why do we keep thinking this?

 

I think this comes from two things: there is a lot of company-loyalty, from Japanese drivers especially. Guys like Sato are Honda through and through, while Kobayashi and Nakajima are Toyota men. There doesn't seem to be much back and forth on this front.

 

Second, the more high-profile the athlete, the more value he or she has for sponsors and suppliers. That tends to come with exclusivity arrangements. If even small-time suppliers for things like team clothing can tell these people what to wear, I'm not sure it's so far fetched to think that a Toyota or a Honda wouldn't be too keen on their star driver also appearing for the other side. Consider also that Toyota and Honda rule the Japanese car market, with less than 10% of Japanese sales coming from outside the country. These two are more directly involved each other's business than, say, a Porsche and Mercedes (Hülkenberg's outing for both in 2015 comes to mind).


Edited by Nonesuch, 11 November 2018 - 15:54.


#82 red stick

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 15:59

I understand the rationale.  My question really is, has anyone from Toyota ever said/hinted/harrumphed in the general direction of ever stating this out loud?  Because otherwise it's just conjecture.  Well-reasoned conjecture, to be sure, but conjecture nonetheless.


Edited by red stick, 11 November 2018 - 16:02.


#83 hittheapex

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 16:03

^^ Regarding the issue of which part of F1 forms the Triple Crown, I don't really have an issue with it being the championship or Monaco. After all, Indy and Le Mans are "merely" single races like Monaco is, and the F1 championship is obviously a great achievement.



#84 Joseki

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 16:45



Q: If you use a Chevy engine will you have any concerns about competitiveness?

FA: No I think they won last year.

Q: Honda won last year.

FA: No. Will Power.

Q: Oh right, sorry, I was thinking of your year.



Quality journalism in the F1 paddock.

#85 Vielleicht

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 16:49

I just think it says a lot about the Indy 500 and Le Mans that they're considered equal to an F1 World Championship in the original interpretation of the Triple Crown.



#86 pacificquay

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 16:52

Q: If you use a Chevy engine will you have any concerns about competitiveness?FA: No I think they won last year.Q: Honda won last year.FA: No. Will Power.Q: Oh right, sorry, I was thinking of your year.Quality journalism in the F1 paddock.


Honda did win last year, Will Power won THIS year!

#87 E.B.

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 16:56

I just think it says a lot about the Indy 500 and Le Mans that they're considered equal to an F1 World Championship in the original interpretation of the Triple Crown.


Not necessarily equal in status to the WDC, but certainly far more important than the championships that they are part of.

#88 August

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 17:00

I understand the rationale.  My question really is, has anyone from Toyota ever said/hinted/harrumphed in the general direction of ever stating this out loud?  Because otherwise it's just conjecture.  Well-reasoned conjecture, to be sure, but conjecture nonetheless.

 

Not Toyota but Honda in this example. Didn't Honda block Alonso from joining Porsche LMP1 team back in 2015?

 

When you see a Japanese manufacturer being worried about a star driver racing for a different brand which wasn't even Japanese and is kinda targeting a different customer, you can imagine what they think about racing for the biggest Japanese rival brand.



#89 Vielleicht

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 17:03

Not necessarily equal in status to the WDC, but certainly far more important than the championships that they are part of.

Therein lies the problem. An F1 WDC is probably worth more than the Indy 500 and Le Mans, but on the other hand a Monaco Grand Prix victory doesn't quite match them.



#90 Andrew Hope

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 17:03

Never liked the standard definition of the triple crown as Indy race, lemons race, F1 WDC. Should just be Monaco imo.

#91 Vielleicht

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 17:07

I always forget what it was first considered as when Graham Hill won it? Because I've more or less decided that it should be the oldest recorded definition.



#92 E.B.

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 17:09

Never liked the standard definition of the triple crown as Indy race, lemons race, F1 WDC. Should just be Monaco imo.


It can be whatever you want, as it was never an official "thing". The only gripe I have with the Monaco contingent is when they claim that their definition was the original one.

#93 Andrew Hope

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 17:21

It can be whatever you want, as it was never an official "thing". The only gripe I have with the Monaco contingent is when they claim that their definition was the original one.


Yeah. It's just that equating an F1 title with a single race - even Le Mans - is bonkers.

And if it can be whatever I want, then win a race that pays at least $500,000 on 2, 4, and 6 wheels. In your spare time from boat racing.

#94 Vielleicht

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 17:29

Yeah. It's just that equating an F1 title with a single race - even Le Mans - is bonkers.

And if it can be whatever I want, then win a race that pays at least $500,000 on 2, 4, and 6 wheels. In your spare time from boat racing.

I don't think it's actually that ridiculous. I'd place Le Mans and Indy at least half way between Monaco and a WDC. At least.



#95 E.B.

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 17:36

Yeah. It's just that equating an F1 title with a single race - even Le Mans - is bonkers.


But look at it from another perspective - which single F1 round deserves to be elevated above all the others in the way that Le Mans and Indy are the figurehead of their championships? Why not Monza? Spa? The reason it's Monaco is that Graham won it 5 times and someone got the wrong end of the stick.

#96 Andrew Hope

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 17:43

Well it's an interesting question: should we look at the effort going into the race, or how important/prestigious it is, or what? I was thinking more along the lines of effort, which is why I rate the WDC so much higher than the other two. But if you're going by different values maybe you'll come out with a completely different idea.

#97 Ben1445

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 17:50

If Monaco had a different, more gruelling build up and race. So full, multiple days of practice and a unique qualifying format which lasted all of Saturday. Then the race was 50% longer than most on the calendar... 

 

Then I would consider it worthy of being placed alongside Le Mans and Indy in the Triple Crown. 



#98 loki

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 17:52

We keep saying this.  Why do we keep thinking this?  Toyota doesn't race in IndyCar, so there's no direct competition.  Honda doesn't compete in WEC.  And Penske and Ganassi show that using different engines in different series (Chevy/Ford/Honda, in different iterations in different series) is not a bar.  Does Toyota really care what propels Alonso in IndyCar?  Is there a statement somewhere I've missed?

It's all guessing and supposition by forum types talking heads in the media and not based on anything that's been mentioned by any ICS team or engine manufacturer.  The reason he didn't get an engine commitment was that they didn't commit to running any sort of program until now.  Honda said when they committed to an entry they would talk.  HPD in the US does their own thing and this talk of loyalty to Japanese drivers, etc doesn't apply to HPD. 



#99 red stick

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 18:05

It's all guessing and supposition by forum types talking heads in the media and not based on anything that's been mentioned by any ICS team or engine manufacturer.  The reason he didn't get an engine commitment was that they didn't commit to running any sort of program until now.  Honda said when they committed to an entry they would talk.  HPD in the US does their own thing and this talk of loyalty to Japanese drivers, etc doesn't apply to HPD.


Thanks.

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#100 Talisman

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 19:46

I think this comes from two things: there is a lot of company-loyalty, from Japanese drivers especially. Guys like Sato are Honda through and through, while Kobayashi and Nakajima are Toyota men. There doesn't seem to be much back and forth on this front.

Second, the more high-profile the athlete, the more value he or she has for sponsors and suppliers. That tends to come with exclusivity arrangements. If even small-time suppliers for things like team clothing can tell these people what to wear, I'm not sure it's so far fetched to think that a Toyota or a Honda wouldn't be too keen on their star driver also appearing for the other side. Consider also that Toyota and Honda rule the Japanese car market, with less than 10% of Japanese sales coming from outside the country. These two are more directly involved each other's business than, say, a Porsche and Mercedes (Hülkenberg's outing for both in 2015 comes to mind).


Japanese companies have a particular relationship with Japanese drivers, not the other way round. Rather like Red Bull scouts from the companies will follow karting etc and pick out promising talents, smoothing their way through junior formula primarily with money. It isn’t as developed as RB with little assistance on media handling etc and IMO the scouts are not particularly good at what they do. IMO they’ve done the Japanese racing scene quite a bit of harm as a result.

But it is true that a driver like Kobayashi who has had their entire career paid for by Toyota until he got to Sauber would firmly be expected to race for them and be looked after as a result. Sato was a little bit more complicated.

This doesn’t apply to foreign drivers although canny individuals like Jenson can use their Honda connections to race elsewhere in the empire.

Previously I have said that Honda do not want to work with Alonso again and that is still my understanding. But if he hadn’t fallen out with them then I still think it would be difficult for him to sign at the same time as racing for Toyota. Not just because Toyota is Toyota but it means paying a large sum of money to a driver who may become unavailable to you because of an accident they’ve had in a completely separate sport contracted to a different company.