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McLaren to return to Indy 500 or Indycar?


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#301 Joseki

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 19:37

OK, so I just saw someone claiming "What I really love is THEY designed it...they didn't use one of the standard chassis the rest of the teams use".

 

That's not right, is it? Doesn't seem so...

 

It's against the rules so...



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#302 maximilian

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 19:38

Looks fine, and will certainly be easy to spot. :up:

 

On second thought, it looks a bit like Dixon's car, but I guess the orange is lighter on the #66 at least...



#303 PayasYouRace

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 19:45

OK, so I just saw someone claiming "What I really love is THEY designed it...they didn't use one of the standard chassis the rest of the teams use".

 

That's not right, is it? Doesn't seem so...

 

It's possible they've developed some of the parts like most of the other teams do. Springs and dampers are one area of development. But the base chassis is just an IR18 like the rest of them. Even says Dallara on the nose.



#304 HeadFirst

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 19:48

OK, so I just saw someone claiming "What I really love is THEY designed it...they didn't use one of the standard chassis the rest of the teams use".

 

That's not right, is it? Doesn't seem so...

 

All the teams use the same basic Dallara pkg., although I think the aero pkgs. differ between Honda and Chev powerplants. 



#305 PayasYouRace

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 19:49

All the teams use the same basic Dallara pkg., although I think the aero pkgs. differ between Honda and Chev powerplants. 

 

Not since 2017. Now it's the universal aero kit.



#306 maximilian

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 19:51

To anybody who hasn't seen the speedway aero kit, this might look "different than the other IndyCars" we've seen so far this season on the road course kit only, maybe that's where the confusion stems from.



#307 AustinF1

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 19:53

It's against the rules so...

That's what I was thinking. McLaren did assemble the car in the MTC I think, but design it? I dunno where he got that idea. The guy is normally knowledgeable. Or at least he used to be. Maybe age is catching up with him...like the rest of us. ;)



#308 AustinF1

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 19:54

It's possibly they've developed some of the parts like most of the other teams do. Springs and dampers are one area of development. But the base chassis is just an IR18 like the rest of them. Even says Dallara on the nose.

Right, I was wondering if that might be the case, too, suspension parts, etc. I'm guessing they aren't allowed to mess with the underside of the car...



#309 HeadFirst

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 19:56

Not since 2017. Now it's the universal aero kit.

 

Really, thanks for the catch-me-up.  :wave:



#310 stewie

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 20:03

I believe this year teams can do a little bit of changing of the speedway aero package, in terms of taking on or off listed parts - strakes and the like.

#311 DanardiF1

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 20:27

I believe this year teams can do a little bit of changing of the speedway aero package, in terms of taking on or off listed parts - strakes and the like.

 

Yeah I think there are gurneys etc that they can use to get the aero balance they want, but it has to be part of a listed package so no bespoke parts.

 

Some teams like Penske and Ganassi don't like that everything is made and sold by Dallara now, it used to be that they could produce some parts themselves but of course that means they could engineer an advantage into those parts...


Edited by DanardiF1, 08 April 2019 - 20:30.


#312 loki

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 00:46

McLaren built the car in terms that the parts were shipped there and they assembled it.  It's a fully spec tub and aero.  Anything that you can change on the tub and aero comes from Dallara.  That's why the shock programs are so important these days.  It's a big differentiator for the cars.  You can also run as much tunnel (as long as you aren't in one of three black out blocks, don't run more than 12 hours in 24 hours and have Indycar present), shaker and CFD time as you wish.  That, the tests at TMS and a SIM could go a long way to getting them in the pocket in terms of performance.



#313 B Squared

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 09:17

Though that was not a McLaren factory entry: it was a Team Penske entry !!!!!

Factory cars won with 3 (74) and 2 (76)

You're correct, but Penske and McLaren had a very close relationship when they ran McLarens. Surely a sign of respect to their former partners....plus it was the first McLaren Indy 500 victory.

#314 Rinehart

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 09:32

McLaren built the car in terms that the parts were shipped there and they assembled it.  It's a fully spec tub and aero.  Anything that you can change on the tub and aero comes from Dallara.  That's why the shock programs are so important these days.  It's a big differentiator for the cars.  You can also run as much tunnel (as long as you aren't in one of three black out blocks, don't run more than 12 hours in 24 hours and have Indycar present), shaker and CFD time as you wish.  That, the tests at TMS and a SIM could go a long way to getting them in the pocket in terms of performance.

But still, surely this is not going to be anywhere near as good a chance as Alonso had last year with Andretti Honda? There was all that experience and shared data to lean on. Ok he was a rookie but that was negated by the programme. This year looks like the only option to run at Indy, rather than the best option, to me... 



#315 Henri Greuter

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 11:13

You're correct, but Penske and McLaren had a very close relationship when they ran McLarens. Surely a sign of respect to their former partners....plus it was the first McLaren Indy 500 victory.



..... and a manner to please Penske into providing some backdoor support ?????????????

Edited by Henri Greuter, 09 April 2019 - 11:18.


#316 maximilian

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 11:17

But still, surely this is not going to be anywhere near as good a chance as Alonso had last year with Andretti Honda? There was all that experience and shared data to lean on. Ok he was a rookie but that was negated by the programme. This year looks like the only option to run at Indy, rather than the best option, to me... 

 

Hmm, I think one mustn't underestimate McLaren's overall capabilities.  They have technology resources that probably put Andretti to shame - and they've had time to prepare all sorts of things (not a rushed entry like in 2017).



#317 DRSwing

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 19:37

Track action!

https://twitter.com/...0476796932?s=21

https://twitter.com/...2956453889?s=21

Car looks and sounds great on track. Don’t think it will be confused with the Dixon car in terms of livery.

#318 FNG

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 19:56

Alonso may be chasing this race for years. Indy 500 is a notoriously hard race to win. There is a lot of luck and circumstances out of your control to deal with. I will be pulling for him but it could be a long time coming.



#319 loki

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 19:56

Hmm, I think one mustn't underestimate McLaren's overall capabilities.  They have technology resources that probably put Andretti to shame - and they've had time to prepare all sorts of things (not a rushed entry like in 2017).

They lack the depth of experience in both Indycar racing and oval track racing in particular.  McLaren has a great deal of tech but what's that gotten them in the last 5-6 years or so?  These are spec cars and there is no way that McLaren in this amount of time can match the knowledge and depth of experience someone like Andretti or Penske have not only at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway but Indycar or oval racing in general.  That said they may do pretty well as long as they hired the right Gomers for the right positions.



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#320 jonpollak

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 21:38

Wonder if they’ll do a little YouTube compilation of today’s test ?

I hear the end of April test@IMS will be shown on Indycar.com
Jp

#321 jonpollak

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 22:58

Malsher’s write up for today’s test.
(With added JR goodness)

https://twitter.com/...807369374527489


https://www.motorspo...s-test/4367443/

5477663-C-FB39-4650-998-A-E491-DA00-CA4-


Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 13 April 2019 - 01:49.


#322 jonpollak

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 03:20

Here it is.



Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 13 April 2019 - 01:49.


#323 McLaren1702

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 04:10

This is simply an incredibly beautiful car. The livery, the chassis...! Hopefully we'll see it in a road course configuration someday.

Anyway, I've worked some extra hours and I've made a template for a paper version of this car! Here's a quick sneak peek. Unfortunately I won't be able to assemble it for the coming three weeks, but I'll share a picture once I've finished it! :)

Spoiler


#324 AustinF1

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 04:40

Good article here re: the test. Lots of Fernando quotage...mostly just what he says in the video.
 
Alonso encouraged after Texas IndyCar test http://disq.us/t/3didbtp

Edited by AustinF1, 10 April 2019 - 04:44.


#325 DRSwing

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 05:41

Here it is.
https://youtu.be/lFEuJiZbF8w
Jp


Nice find! Thank you.

According to this, there were some issues in the morning but they managed to run 105 laps in the afternoon.

https://www.indycar....aren-Texas-test

Guess they had a good test and hopefully ironed out the teething problems.

Still, I wish they could have taken part in an actual race before the Indy500, even though there is no race on ovals. Might have been helpful for the team to gel and experience working together under race conditions. Wouldn’t mind seeing more of the car, which I think look pretty stunning under the sun, racing on track either.

#326 CoolBreeze

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 06:57

The fact that it does not have a Halo already makes it a beautiful car,.



#327 kosmos

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 09:28

If he wins, I wonder if he will comeback or he will be done with Indy forever and move to other things.



#328 Owen

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 09:42

So far, so good.

https://racer.com/20...s-indycar-test/



#329 MrRat

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 11:26

I honestly dont think he will be competitive this year. Carlin association doesn't incite confidence in me. McLaren however does have the money to develop the best dampers they can and the backing larger than most other teams participating in Indy500. I dont know. Him being with Andretti helped him a lot, this time around, idk. :well:



#330 boomn

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 16:32

Still, I wish they could have taken part in an actual race before the Indy500, even though there is no race on ovals. Might have been helpful for the team to gel and experience working together under race conditions. Wouldn’t mind seeing more of the car, which I think look pretty stunning under the sun, racing on track either.

I agree that more experience would be great, but thankfully that is also one of the reasons there is so much build up to the Indy 500.  The first practice is nearly two weeks before race day and I think they get 8 practice sessions over that span.  It's not just a marketing/hype thing to draw it out so much



#331 Henri Greuter

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 17:45

I agree that more experience would be great, but thankfully that is also one of the reasons there is so much build up to the Indy 500.  The first practice is nearly two weeks before race day and I think they get 8 practice sessions over that span.  It's not just a marketing/hype thing to draw it out so much

 

Lots of practice possible, weather permitting .....

And it can rain a lot and hard in Indiana....

 

As O.C. Smith already sang:  "It doen't rain in Indianapolis in the summertime......"

Spring is a different matter....



#332 AustinF1

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 17:58

Oh, that Pablo keeps me in stitches...

 

 

Pablo Elizalde  @EliGP
4h
Scientists reveal the first-ever real image of a black hole.

D3y37KUW4AASt4s.jpg



#333 bogi

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 18:46

https://www.youtube....h?v=mhwFIYWOBrk

 

I don't know how to put video in bb codes on this forum.


Edited by bogi, 10 April 2019 - 18:47.


#334 PayasYouRace

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 20:13

Oh, that Pablo keeps me in stitches...

 

 

Pablo Elizalde  @EliGP
4h
Scientists reveal the first-ever real image of a black hole.

 

 

I know racing drivers aren't the smartest of people but I wouldn't call Fernando that dense. Also, if ever a driver considered light to shine out of his backside...



#335 kumo7

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 01:39

It's possible they've developed some of the parts like most of the other teams do. Springs and dampers are one area of development. But the base chassis is just an IR18 like the rest of them. Even says Dallara on the nose.

 

Should this mean that McLaren can change the ride highest, rakes, spring behaviors or system all included? 

Could McLaren change the bulkhead? Just curious...



#336 teejay

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 06:11

Alonso may be chasing this race for years. Indy 500 is a notoriously hard race to win. There is a lot of luck and circumstances out of your control to deal with. I will be pulling for him but it could be a long time coming.

 

Alexander Rossi disagrees



#337 Henri Greuter

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 06:40

Should this mean that McLaren can change the ride highest, rakes, spring behaviors or system all included? 
Could McLaren change the bulkhead? Just curious...



Bulkhead and everything integral part of the monocoque has to remain standard

#338 AustinF1

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 05:23

Fernando and McLaren's Indy 500 "Nine Degrees Program"...

 

https://www.youtube....WcOAEjWdMgw_d7A



#339 pup

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 15:07

I'm curious what the finances around the Indy program look like.  From the number of sponsors it seems like they might be making a profit on the deal?



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#340 Joseki

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 15:17

I'm curious what the finances around the Indy program look like. From the number of sponsors it seems like they might be making a profit on the deal?


Maybe they are making money if you exclude Alonso's salary...

I would be very surprised if Alonso isn't getting at least 8 millions or so from McLaren this year.

#341 juicy sushi

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 15:39

I think that if Alonso wins, he might be done, but I, like most here, think he's going to have a very hard time winning the race.  McLaren have the resources to match Penske, Ganassi, or Andretti at developing dampers, but they don't have the data and institutional knowledge of what actual settings matter at Indy, and how to adjust them as the race evolves to keep the car in the set-up window.  That's the big edge that only comes from experience in the series.  

 

A longer term involvement with IndyCar by McLaren would be nice, but unless they plan to sell engines, or replace Dallara, I am not sure what they're really getting out of it, unless they plan to place a junior team in the series.



#342 Loosenut

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 16:05

I think that if Alonso wins, he might be done, but I, like most here, think he's going to have a very hard time winning the race.  McLaren have the resources to match Penske, Ganassi, or Andretti at developing dampers, but they don't have the data and institutional knowledge of what actual settings matter at Indy, and how to adjust them as the race evolves to keep the car in the set-up window.  That's the big edge that only comes from experience in the series.  

 

A longer term involvement with IndyCar by McLaren would be nice, but unless they plan to sell engines, or replace Dallara, I am not sure what they're really getting out of it, unless they plan to place a junior team in the series.

 

Surely they will have plenty of people in their stable who have come from other teams who have plenty of this experience tho, no?

 

A McLaren Indycar team would be pretty good I think, hopefully a Williams team too! :D



#343 MrRat

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 21:14

Maybe they are making money if you exclude Alonso's salary...

I would be very surprised if Alonso isn't getting at least 8 millions or so from McLaren this year.

Why would Alonso be paid $8mil from McLaren? I don't think he is. I am not sure if he is paid much at all.



#344 loki

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 00:29

I'm curious what the finances around the Indy program look like.  From the number of sponsors it seems like they might be making a profit on the deal?

The Indianapolis 500 Mile Race paid Sato about US$ 2.45 mil.  A small team can make money but if they amortized the cost of all the resources, person hours, paying Fred, buying the car, leasing the engine they've burned through much of that before they touch down at the Brickyard.  Ol' Floyd Ganassi told Jim Ayello last year it was about US$1 mil per car to run a competitive effort for the month.  And that's if you already have a team in place.  He says double that if you're building a program for the race.  Not counting crash damage for a single tub and month long engine lease you're probably around US$ 3/4 of a mil for a car.  That's per car and Fred will need a T car. (T car = Gomerspeak for spare car)And about US$90k for tires for the month.  

 

Ayello goes through the steps of a one off for The Greatest Spectacle In Racing ™

https://www.indystar...-500/626282002/

 

A longer term involvement with IndyCar by McLaren would be nice, but unless they plan to sell engines, or replace Dallara, I am not sure what they're really getting out of it, unless they plan to place a junior team in the series.

Use it to sell McLarens in the US.  I see them around town pretty regularly though way more Ferraris and Lamborghinis.  In fact I'll see those on a daily basis not counting the exotics rental joints.  They really don't have any marketing over here.  If they want to expand their footprint in the US it's a good way to do it.  A few mil a year to sell supercars in the US isn't a bad price.

 

Why would Alonso be paid $8mil from McLaren? I don't think he is. I am not sure if he is paid much at all.

They'd pay him a fat check to keep him away from anyone else and perhaps as an "in case of fire break glass" guy in case one of those kids craters out.  That mid field is pretty packed and it would be a bummer if Gene Haas pried open his wallet and put Fred in that number 8 car.  (it wouldn't be the 8 at that point but you get the idea)  Eight mil is less than a single place in the WCC.  Plus you get Fred's experience, get to listen to him complain and get all the Kimoa swag you want.  What's not to like?



#345 jonpollak

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 03:49

https://youtu.be/kSkCPbisWCA

Zak Brown at LBGP.

Jp

#346 kosmos

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 04:50

Why would Alonso be paid $8mil from McLaren? I don't think he is. I am not sure if he is paid much at all.

 

 

I'm going to agree with this, they are doing this for Alonso not for McLaren, without Alonso they won't be participating in Indy 500 despite them showing some interest in Indy since ZB became the boss. Plus the Kimoa stickers, if they are paying him is probably little. In any case Fernando is still a member of McLaren F1 so he is getting money from the team one way or the other.



#347 Joseki

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 09:42

Zak was reported by MP and RM asking around if Pato O'Ward has a contract for next year.



#348 jonpollak

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 06:23

From Indycar.com.


A4513-B4-E-C7-E9-49-B0-90-D3-F8-FCA7-A03

INDIANAPOLIS – His return didn’t have the fanfare of when he first arrived at Indianapolis Motor Speedway in 2017, then inclement weather and an electrical issue factored into what could have qualified as a frustrating Wednesday.

But Fernando Alonso – minus a throng of international media awaiting his every word – still sounded generally enthused about being back for an NTT IndyCar Series open test, despite losing early track time due to that electrical problem in the No 66 McLaren Chevrolet and then finishing slowest of nine drivers in the session set aside for veteran refreshers and rookie orientation.

“It's good to be back, to feel again the magic of the place,” the two-time Formula One champion from Spain said. “The facilities when you come in the morning, you see the size of everything again, doing the medical (exam) checks in the morning, preparing for the running in the afternoon. It felt good.

“Unfortunately, the weather was not stable enough to follow the times that we had in terms of practice. Yeah, at the end, it was not enough laps and not enough time on the car to get the proper feeling.”

Fernando AlonsoUnlike two years ago, when Andretti Autosport prepared the car and supplied the crew for Alonso’s much-publicized Indianapolis 500 debut, McLaren is coming back on its own this time. Alonso and the team knew there would be growing pains early on.

His fastest lap of 29 was 218.690 mph, well off the pace of rookie Colton Herta, who led the session at 226.108 mph. Takuma Sato was fastest of the day in the earlier session for current veterans at 226.993 mph. Rain delays washed out the chance for extensive early runs, pushed the schedule into the early evening and prevented Alonso from completing both phases of his refresher test – something he’ll need to do when formal Indy 500 practice opens May 14.

“For us, obviously, we lost a little bit of time at the beginning,” Alonso said of the electrical issue. “This was more or less expected because, as I said, it was a brand new chassis, brand new car. Everything fit (in final car assembly) in the last week. We expect to run slowly, step by step, short runs at the beginning. It's what we did.

“So, yeah, if we could probably have the (initial) laps at midday, maybe you discover these issues, then you have hours to work on the car, be ready for the afternoon. The weather delays everything. You do the lap at 5:30 p.m., and there is no room to get back on track on time.”

Alonso picked up on Indy car racing quickly two years ago. He steadily improved in Indy 500 practice to emerge as one of the race favorites after qualifying fifth. He led 27 laps and was running near the front when his engine failed with 21 laps remaining. Alonso was named Indianapolis 500 Rookie of the Year.

“I'm happy to be back here because this place is great,” he said. “At the end, it's going to be amazing, you know, the two weeks here.”

His papaya orange car elicits memories from a rich McLaren history that included Indianapolis 500 victories in 1972, 1974 and 1976. The No. 66 is in honor of that first win with Mark Donohue in a Roger Penske entry.

Alonso is all about making history — his mission to conquer IMS is all about becoming just the second driver in motorsports to accomplish the Triple Crown of winning the Indy 500, Monaco Grand Prix and 24 Hours of Le Mans. Graham Hill currently stands alone in that distinction. Alonso won at Monaco in 2006 and 2007 and triumphed at Le Mans in 2018.

When asked if his previous experience made him feel like more of an Indy car driver, an amused Alonso insisted he’s still the same driver who showed up two years ago.

“Now I'm coming back as a Formula One world champion and 24 Hour Le Mans champ,” he said with a grin, quickly adding “and I’m 24 Hours Daytona,” referring to his win there in January.

Alonso tested an Indy car two weeks ago at Texas Motor Speedway and has spent extensive time in a Chevrolet racing simulator in Charlotte, but he conceded that preparing for the high-speed, 2.5-mile IMS oval is unlike anything he has experienced in racing.

That’s why track time is so important. He didn’t like losing some on Wednesday, but he’ll be back, determined as always, and looking forward to racing once again in “The Greatest Spectacle in Racing.”

“I think we have to do everything by ourselves, not only in terms of setup-wise, on the technical side,” he said of his team. “It's also on the operational side, also on the strategy, tire management, the comfort side in terms of precision, steering wheel grip, basic things that they were ready with Andretti.

“Yeah, basically it's a bigger challenge. But it could be a bigger reward as well. I think some of the philosophy or directions that McLaren may go in the next month, maybe now is a little bit different. With Andretti, we just followed what we knew what was working. In a way, it was easier. But maybe now we can discover new things. That's our hopes.”

The 103rd Indianapolis 500 presented by Gainbridge takes place Sunday, May 26. Tickets are available at IMS.com. The race airs live at 11 a.m. ET on NBC and the Advance Auto Parts INDYCAR Radio Network.

https://youtu.be/pQ_kqBy9VHc

Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 25 April 2019 - 06:34.


#349 Peat

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 06:37

Oh Robin...
They got him a smart new pullover but negated to trim his eyebrows. 



#350 Owen

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 07:35

McLaren have to work hard to overcome setbacks
https://wp.me/p36IVn-2SNr