1039 replies to this topic

[sgtkate]

Lol, you make it sound like after the incident, Max just sat around somewhere in a chair and suddenly decided to confront Ocon. People love to be offended nowadays

And other people feel the need to behave aggressively to show what an awesome man they are. Whoop. Go them. 

 

I'm not offended (love the use of this as well by the way, next thing I'll be part of the liberal elite or a snowflake or something), I'm annoyed by the way people think that acting like that is in anyway acceptable. He's driving a blooming race car in a sport and someone made a mistake and he didn't win. Can you imagine how he'll react if something of actual genuine importance happens to him? It's utterly pathetic. 

 

We all get angry but most rational, normal, grown ups don't go around shoving others because we didn't get our own way. 

[phrank]

And other people feel the need to behave aggressively to show what an awesome man they are. Whoop. Go them. 

 

I'm not offended (love the use of this as well by the way, next thing I'll be part of the liberal elite or a snowflake or something), I'm annoyed by the way people think that acting like that is in anyway acceptable. He's driving a blooming race car in a sport and someone made a mistake and he didn't win. Can you imagine how he'll react if something of actual genuine importance happens to him? It's utterly pathetic. 

 

We all get angry but most rational, normal, grown ups don't go around shoving others because we didn't get our own way. 

But you are offended, why else would you not stop going on about it? I am pretty sure that you have never been in the situation he was in yesterday, so you could never compare how he could feel or even how y o u would act. Seems like you only like to project your moral high ground

[sgtkate]

But you are offended, why else would you not stop going on about it? I am pretty sure that you have never been in the situation he was in yesterday, so you could never compare how he could feel or even how y o u would act. Seems like you only like to project your moral high ground

I do believe this is a discussion forum, where we can discuss. Do you know what the word offended means? Because currently you sound like a awful lot of people who use that word to try to stop others making a point that you don't agree with and it's tiresome. If that's not the case then we can simply put it down to a difference of opinion.

 

And of course I've never driven an F1 car, although someone actually crashed into me on a track day, did a couple of grand of damage to my car and most importantly, utterly wrecked my fastest lap of the day, but someone I restrained myself enough not to shove him, funny that. Also, I will now apologise as it's clear I'm talking to either a current or former F1 driver otherwise your question of me would be a tad hypocritical no?

 

We've butted heads on other threads too so it's very clear we are from extremely different worlds therefore let's stop derailing the thread and put each other on ignore? How does that sound?

[Gareth]

But you are offended, why else would you not stop going on about it? I am pretty sure that you have never been in the situation he was in yesterday, so you could never compare how he could feel or even how y o u would act. Seems like you only like to project your moral high ground

You keep going on about it, so you are offended.

 

You are not a former F1 driver, so your opinion doesn't count.

 

/phrank logic

[ANF]

Best Team Radio. Sadly, it doesn't include my personal favourite:

“Sirotkin is our next target. He is six seconds in front.”
“Which position is Sirotkin?”
“Sirotkin is in 16th...”
“Wow! Nice target.”
“...and we got blue flags for Verstappen.”
“Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.”

[w1Y]

Man I think Alonso was ore pissed off than max😂

[Ivanhoe]

That Toro Rosso swap Comedy capers, pure gold.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 12 November 2018 - 18:47.

[baddog]

Just want to say.. Amazing drive from both RB boys but especially Verstappen. NO-ONE can doubt his great talent at this point.

[Gary Davies]

His talent is indeed indisputable, dog. What I think is currently uncertain is whether his petulance and sense of entitlement is a fixed and permanent part of his make up or whether maturity will one day come to him so that he becomes a little easier to love.

[baddog]

His talent is indeed indisputable, dog. What I think is currently uncertain is whether his petulance and sense of entitlement is a fixed and permanent part of his make up or whether maturity will one day come to him so that he becomes a little easier to love.

 

Thinking back to other drivers he doesn't seem so unusual. Right now I find him deeply unlikeable and annoying mind you, but trying to be objective it may just be a typical 'too much win too soon' attitude and will fade.

[Heyli]

Best Team Radio. Sadly, it doesn't include my personal favourite:

“Sirotkin is our next target. He is six seconds in front.”
“Which position is Sirotkin?”
“Sirotkin is in 16th...”
“Wow! Nice target.”
“...and we got blue flags for Verstappen.”
“Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.”

Whose is that?

[MortenF1]

Alonsos, surely.

[ANF]

Alonsos, surely.

Oh yes.

[917k]

You know - considering this season has often been declared ''worst ever'' and the general state of F1 has been constantly slated here - I have found the majority of races this year, like 3/4ths, have been very entertaining - lots of overtaking, drama, 3 teams and 6 drivers capable of winning etc.

 

It now seems trendy and fashionable, if an F1 fan, to have to try very hard to hate the sport . Personally, I've enjoyed a great many races recently and look forward eagerly to 2019, where the huge number of driver changes will be fascinating to watch.

[beachdrifter]

This race showed once again how little FP race pace projections are worth on a Sunday.

[BalanceUT]

Quoting for agreement, especially the bolded part. 

You know - considering this season has often been declared ''worst ever'' and the general state of F1 has been constantly slated here - I have found the majority of races this year, like 3/4ths, have been very entertaining - lots of overtaking, drama, 3 teams and 6 drivers capable of winning etc.

 

It now seems trendy and fashionable, if an F1 fan, to have to try very hard to hate the sport . Personally, I've enjoyed a great many races recently and look forward eagerly to 2019, where the huge number of driver changes will be fascinating to watch.

[baddog]

You know - considering this season has often been declared ''worst ever''

 

Seems unlikely

[Reddington]

You know - considering this season has often been declared ''worst ever'' and the general state of F1 has been constantly slated here - I have found the majority of races this year, like 3/4ths, have been very entertaining - lots of overtaking, drama, 3 teams and 6 drivers capable of winning etc.

 

It now seems trendy and fashionable, if an F1 fan, to have to try very hard to hate the sport . Personally, I've enjoyed a great many races recently and look forward eagerly to 2019, where the huge number of driver changes will be fascinating to watch.

 

 

Agreed!

 

People say it's so predictable etc. Well, a few examples of some other seasons: Schumacher in 2002 competing in 17 races and being on the podium every 17 of them, 11 of those on the highest step. Vettel winning 9 races on the trot in the second half of the season in 2013. McLaren winning all but one race in 1988.

 

Just a few examples. But yet, now we say F1 is being dominated by Merc the past seasons for example. People have very short memories. Ah well, the past is always better I guess...

[search]

This race showed once again how little FP race pace projections are worth on a Sunday.

 

Red Bull's pace on Friday was strong though, and they were the only ones with no tire problems, which paid off in the race.

[w1Y]

Part of f1s problem is that people are never happy with it.

The only problems i see is the big gap to the top 6 teams. People have a crap memory thinkong tbere was always overtakong amd lots of it

[SonGoku]

And even that isn't a massive problem as Brazil showed, 3 teams and 6 drivers gunning for the win is great to watch. I think 2018 is very underrated, I have seen much worse F1 seasons, much worse.

Edited by SonGoku, 13 November 2018 - 13:01.

[rf90]

Agreed!

 

People say it's so predictable etc. Well, a few examples of some other seasons: Schumacher in 2002 competing in 17 races and being on the podium every 17 of them, 11 of those on the highest step. Vettel winning 9 races on the trot in the second half of the season in 2013. McLaren winning all but one race in 1988.

 

Just a few examples. But yet, now we say F1 is being dominated by Merc the past seasons for example. People have very short memories. Ah well, the past is always better I guess...

 

Hmmm, I think you are assuming that everyone enjoyed those past seasons of dominance. Only fanboys of dominant team/driver enjoy dominant seasons.

[Francesc]

And even that isn't a massive problem as Brazil showed, 3 teams and 6 drivers gunning for the win is great to watch. I think 2018 is very underrated, I have seen much worse F1 seasons, much worse.

 

Too bad the rest of the field are in a different formula.

[Myrvold]

And even that isn't a massive problem as Brazil showed, 3 teams and 6 drivers gunning for the win is great to watch. I think 2018 is very underrated, I have seen much worse F1 seasons, much worse.

 

The latter part of the season have been fine.

 

But many of the races have been boringly predictable. Some of the issue is, that even with 02 or 04, we didn't have that dominance in 01 or 03. We came off a percieved RB 4-year dominance (which in reality was only 11 and 13), in to a Mercedes dominance, and it have lasted way too long. In addition, there is no suspense in the races with regards the random failures, driver mistakes etc. that have dire consequences. Mechanical failures basically "never" happens unless you have a Honda and are far behind, or is driving a Red Bull. Driver errors costs 0.5 second now.

While the races were pretty much set early in the older days as well, there was always this feeling that something actually could happen. That's not there these days. It looks to "easy" to drive, no danger except from what the FIA let the drivers cause to each other.

[MastaKink]

We've had one race where the 3 teams where all in with a shout. Lets not pretend that's been the case the whole year. The seasons been a pretty good one up top and in the 2nd tier there's been plenty of good action too, I don't see all these complaints outside of the main standard complaint about having 2 tiers in the first place or any complaint a certain driver and team choked.

 

We didn't get as many straight fights as we'd want up front for one reason or another, some bad luck, grid drops or mistakes throughout the year, but its been pretty good with a few exciting races. You can't really expect much more in a non spec series to have two teams at the front that relatively close to each other, that's pretty rare. If RB-H can make it a three-way next year then all the better but I'd take a repeat of at least having two that close, that part was fine.

 

Gap to the others suck. Grid drop system sucks. Looking like a lack of intra team battles in the top 3 teams sucks. (All eyes on you Charles). But overall we've had it much much worse so I'm looking forward to next year.

[Reddington]

Hmmm, I think you are assuming that everyone enjoyed those past seasons of dominance. Only fanboys of dominant team/driver enjoy dominant seasons.

You assumed wrongly.

[screamingV16]

Too bad the rest of the field are in a different formula.

 

...but that's often been the case throughout the history of F1. Outside the odd win through luck/unreliability it's often been that only 2-3 teams had any real chance of winning multiple races/competing for championships or even finishing on the lead lap.

[screamingV16]

The latter part of the season have been fine.

 

But many of the races have been boringly predictable. Some of the issue is, that even with 02 or 04, we didn't have that dominance in 01 or 03. We came off a percieved RB 4-year dominance (which in reality was only 11 and 13), in to a Mercedes dominance, and it have lasted way too long. In addition, there is no suspense in the races with regards the random failures, driver mistakes etc. that have dire consequences. Mechanical failures basically "never" happens unless you have a Honda and are far behind, or is driving a Red Bull. Driver errors costs 0.5 second now.

While the races were pretty much set early in the older days as well, there was always this feeling that something actually could happen. That's not there these days. It looks to "easy" to drive, no danger except from what the FIA let the drivers cause to each other.

 

Seriously? Schumacher and Ferrari dominated 01, Schumacher ended up with almost twice as many points as Coulthard in 2nd place with 9 wins to Coulthard's 3. Maybe not 02/04 dominance, but it was a one horse championship (by round 10 Schumacher was the equivilant of 75 points ahead) and boring.

[Myrvold]

Seriously? Schumacher and Ferrari dominated 01, Schumacher ended up with almost twice as many points as Coulthard in 2nd place with 9 wins to Coulthard's 3. Maybe not 02/04 dominance, but it was a one horse championship (by round 10 Schumacher was the equivilant of 75 points ahead) and boring.

 

Heh, somehow I don't remember that season as boring. Maybe because it was the first one like it for a little while? Maybe because it was only Schumacher and not both Ferraris, or maybe because Villeneuve got two podiums (I'm a JV fan). Or maybe because we had injuries and quite a bit of in-season driver changes, so it felt more fluctuating.

 

No idea. I had honestly forgotten that Schumacher was so dominant.

[screamingV16]

Heh, somehow I don't remember that season as boring. Maybe because it was the first one like it for a little while? Maybe because it was only Schumacher and not both Ferraris, or maybe because Villeneuve got two podiums (I'm a JV fan). Or maybe because we had injuries and quite a bit of in-season driver changes, so it felt more fluctuating.

 

No idea. I had honestly forgotten that Schumacher was so dominant.

 

Ah, I was a Hakkinen/Mclaren fan at the time, so the constant mechanical issues (that JV podium at Barcelona came about because of Hakkinen's last lap retirement from the lead) plus Hakkinen's decision to retire didn't help...

[TOF1]

Too bad the rest of the field are in a different formula.

This is the real problem. We’ve had Merc and Ferrari fighting, we’ve had Red Bull being dominant as they were in Brazil, Mexico and Monaco ; after that the gulf has been embarrassingly large at times.

[A3]

This is the real problem. We’ve had Merc and Ferrari fighting, we’ve had Red Bull being dominant as they were in Brazil, Mexico and Monaco ; after that the gulf has been embarrassingly large at times.

 

Didn't you see how quick Ocon was?

[skid solo]

And other people feel the need to behave aggressively to show what an awesome man they are. Whoop. Go them.

I'm not offended (love the use of this as well by the way, next thing I'll be part of the liberal elite or a snowflake or something), I'm annoyed by the way people think that acting like that is in anyway acceptable. He's driving a blooming race car in a sport and someone made a mistake and he didn't win. Can you imagine how he'll react if something of actual genuine importance happens to him? It's utterly pathetic.

We all get angry but most rational, normal, grown ups don't go around shoving others because we didn't get our own way.

I think you underestimate what these drivers invest of themselves when racing the worlds fastest prototypes sometimes millimetres from one another. Their commitment is total, they know a misjudgment could be fatal and they put their trust in each other. The disappointment and anger Max felt after the incident is impossible for you to understand unless you’ve been in his shoes, in the spotlight driving a F1 car at a young age with his own and the whole teams disappointment on his shoulders. A shove though not excusable is understandable in the circumstances

[gillesfan76]

Just want to say.. Amazing drive from both RB boys but especially Verstappen. NO-ONE can doubt his great talent at this point.

 

 

His talent is indeed indisputable, dog. What I think is currently uncertain is whether his petulance and sense of entitlement is a fixed and permanent part of his make up or whether maturity will one day come to him so that he becomes a little easier to love.

 

 

Thinking back to other drivers he doesn't seem so unusual. Right now I find him deeply unlikeable and annoying mind you, but trying to be objective it may just be a typical 'too much win too soon' attitude and will fade.

 

He's a once in a blue moon talent. The kind that we're lucky if we see once in each generation. When Alonso deposed of Schumi's throne, we could all see that he was something special. I didn't think anyone would get close to Alonso, but unfortunately for him Lewis came along. Besides the ageing Alonso, I didn't think there was anyone in Lewis' league but I think Max certainly has the potential.

 

His potential is sky high. But I don't agree that his attitude is same as the others. I'm not talking about the arrogance - Alonso and Lewis certainly had plenty of that too. It's not the sense of entitlement either. Alonso and Lewis certainly exhibited that as well. No, it's the inability to control emotion, and in that I only see commonality between Seb and Max.

 

If Max can get a handle on that, and certainly he is still very young and there is ample opportunity for that to fade and maturity to develop, he will go onto achieve great, great things. Especially since, after Alonso and then Lewis retire, I don't see much competition for Max if he finds himself in a top car.

 

Leclerc may be competition and I think he will be very, very good but I don't see him at Max's level in pure talent.

[TOF1]

Didn't you see how quick Ocon was?

he was on brand new supersoft tyres. He was quick and would’ve been for a few laps. Unlike the Red Bull they wouldn’t last.

Edited by TOF1, 16 November 2018 - 00:39.

[enjoyingRBR]

He's a once in a blue moon talent. The kind that we're lucky if we see once in each generation. When Alonso deposed of Schumi's throne, we could all see that he was something special. I didn't think anyone would get close to Alonso, but unfortunately for him Lewis came along. Besides the ageing Alonso, I didn't think there was anyone in Lewis' league but I think Max certainly has the potential.

 

His potential is sky high. But I don't agree that his attitude is same as the others. I'm not talking about the arrogance - Alonso and Lewis certainly had plenty of that too. It's not the sense of entitlement either. Alonso and Lewis certainly exhibited that as well. No, it's the inability to control emotion, and in that I only see commonality between Seb and Max.

 

If Max can get a handle on that, and certainly he is still very young and there is ample opportunity for that to fade and maturity to develop, he will go onto achieve great, great things. Especially since, after Alonso and then Lewis retire, I don't see much competition for Max if he finds himself in a top car.

 

Leclerc may be competition and I think he will be very, very good but I don't see him at Max's level in pure talent.

im a total Max fan...

 

The guy im really worried about in the future to compete with Max is Leclerc.

 

The way he behaves of and on track is quite amazing.

I think he is WAYWAY above Ocon and Gasly and also is more talented than guys like ricciardo. But for me that guy has a mixture of all. 

Next year will be awesome.

We will see so much change...

My bets for the guys we are gonna see pissed quite a few times:

Vettel: gets beaten quite alot by Leclerc

Hamilton: Starts whining when his car is not the fastest

Verstappen: Unexpectedly loses some qualies to Gasly

Ricciardo: .........................   XXXXX Renault

 

 

Anyways, cant wait

[HeadFirst]

...but that's often been the case throughout the history of F1. Outside the odd win through luck/unreliability it's often been that only 2-3 teams had any real chance of winning multiple races/competing for championships or even finishing on the lead lap.

 

Not only F1 suffers from noncompetitive teams, or periods where one team dominates for seasons on end. All team sports have experienced both afflictions, despite attempts to limit their extent. 

[HeadFirst]

he was on brand new supersoft tyres. He was quick and would’ve been for a few laps. Unlike the Red Bull they wouldn’t last.

 

But isn't the racing based on who is quickest at the moment? 

[TOF1]

But isn't the racing based on who is quickest at the moment?

Precisely.

[August]

Kinda off-topic but how was the safety at Interlagos this year? Haven't heard about crime during this year's Brazilian GP weekend. Was security improved or were the F1 folks just lucky this year not to face crime, or was there crime but no "high-profile" cases?