1356 replies to this topic

[theflyingwheel]

Dissapointing mistake from Ocon, coming from a driver who some think will drive for a top team only because he has potential.

Should Ocon had recieved a harsher penalty ?

Edited by theflyingwheel, 11 November 2018 - 18:31.

[PistolPete]

He may still gets some points on license - right?

[SCUDmissile]

Hmm, a 10 second stop and go will be ok actually, provided he also gets points on his super licence.

[Beri]

Well, a 10 second stop and go is the hardest punishment the FIA can give during the race. Aside from black flagging him. So I can't see what the FIA could've done more. We don't know yet about any penalty points as well.

[jstrains]

He should be black flagged as exemplary punishment

[Larunss]

Well a 10 second stop/go is a lot harsher than the usual +5 to yoir regular pit stip we see usually so its fine.

[Marklar]

10 seconds stop and go is the hardest penalty they can give beyond ban and dsq, it's definitely not too light.

Kind of unfortunate incident. Fair enough to unlap yourself, but if you cant make it stick you have to back off. If this was a race battle it would be a normal racing incident, but given that he was lapped, well....

[PayasYouRace]

Poll added.

[Andrew Hope]

Hang him! Ocoff with his head!

[Francesc]

Race ban, specially when it was deliberate following orders from Mercedes.

[Cliff]

Absolute joke... he should be banned from racing.

[PayasYouRace]

Race ban, specially when it was deliberate following orders from Mercedes.

Do you have evidence for that or is it just your imagination?

[ConsiderAndGo]

The penalty was just in my opinion.

It was also absolutely hilarious.

[CountDooku]

What a joke of a poll! As Alonso says, all the time you have to leave a space!!!

[basimi]

Well, a 10 second stop and go is the hardest punishment the FIA can give during the race. Aside from black flagging him. So I can't see what the FIA could've done more. We don't know yet about any penalty points as well.

You just said it.

[Diablobb81]

Would he have pulled such a move on a Merc? Pathetic.

[PayasYouRace]

What a joke of a poll! As Alonso says, all the time you have to leave a space!!!

How is it a joke? What options have been left out?

[CountDooku]

How is it a joke? What options have been left out?

No penalty.

[MikeV1987]

A race ban would be just over the top, the 10 second stop and go was sufficient.

Edited by MikeV1987, 11 November 2018 - 18:48.

[pRy]

What a joke of a poll! As Alonso says, all the time you have to leave a space!!!

 

To leave space you have to expect a car to be there to offer them space. Max won't have expected a back of the field back marker to be on the inside into turn 2 at Brazil. Lesson learnt, you can't ever trust back markers to get out of the way.

[HermannH]

Max called Ocon an idiot. Rightly so. Race ban for Ocon. Lost all respect for him.

[Massa]

Harsher penalty ? Why ? The penalty was good.

[goldenboy]

Shameful stuff from ocon. Feel for max. That was shockingly bad form from him. Uneccesarily costing max the win. Could be the worst mistake by any driver all year.

[Lights]

Should've been a black flag DQ from this race, 2/3 penalty points, and move on.

[theflyingwheel]

Disgusting move by Ocon

[hayabusasc]

I'd always taken Ocon's side in the battles between himself and Perez over the years and was disappointed that he didn't have a race seat for next year. Today his actions however are inexcusable and he should be embarrassed. Silly driving.. he should know better.

[Maxioos]

Right penalty imo.

[MrAerodynamicist]

If it had been a battle for a place, I don't think there's any doubt the fault would have been Verstappen's for closing the door when he shouldn't have. Given there isn't and shouldn't be a rule that says a lapped driver can't try to unlap themselves should they find themselves with the opportunity, I find the penalty harsh.

And the idea it was organised team orders is tin-hattery until evidence is presented.

[CL16]

Fair penalty but Verstappen could and should have been more aware while lapping.

[Fastcake]

Ocon received the second harshest penalty the FIA can give, and the stewards (wrongly) hardly ever give out anything more than a 10 second time penalty nowadays. I think the severity and rarity of the punishment given demonstrates that it was seen as a more serious than usual infringement.

[FullOppositeLock]

Absolutely disgraceful driving by Ocon, and possibly even worse radio comments afterwards. I don’t give a **** about his penalty - that won’t give Max back the win he absolutely deserved. Never seen anything like it.

[liamski]

The penalty made basically no difference to his race or result. Points on his superlicence won't make too much difference either as he's (hopefully) out of F1 next year. Should be a race ban for the next race imho

[pRy]

Fair penalty but Verstappen could and should have been more aware while lapping.

 

Well let's remember it was Ocon trying to un-lap himself that resulted in this collision, not Max throwing one up the inside of a back marker. 

[RPM40]

The penalty seemed pretty reasonable. Ocon should have given more space, but you also can’t turn in when there is a car there either.

Just run a wider line to the apex and miss the trouble

[Tarzaan]

Esteban try to take back his lap, but Max - as usual - close the door and surprisingly this time hi *** this move.

 

I don't feel any sorryabout Max, because in the past he said severel times he didt care about the WDC competitors, they should be carefull, because they have more to loose.

 

This time Max should be more carefull because he had more to loose.

 

So carma is a ****

[Jerem]

Jos didn't get a race ban for taking Montoya out in 2001, so I think a black flag would have been appropriate.

[CountDooku]

To leave space you have to expect a car to be there to offer them space. Max won't have expected a back of the field back marker to be on the inside into turn 2 at Brazil. Lesson learnt, you can't ever trust back markers to get out of the way.

Yeah but has Lewis said in the cooldown room, Max had more to lose. Ocon was entitled to put his car where he did. Max was the one who turned in. It was a racing incident.

[Laster]

I felt this was a very complicated incident. Ocon has every right to unlap himself, he was on fresh tyres and faster in that moment. However if you’re going to overtake the leader you best be decisive and do it cleanly, having half your car alongside isn’t enough when unlapping yourself.

However, Verstappen had no need to close the door in turn 2 like that (if he wasn’t the leader and that was an actual ovetake I’d be blaming him for the incident), and he could have just let Ocon go, he was miles faster than Hamilton, there was no need to risk the car and his lead battling with a backmarker.

To answer the question though, the penalty seemed about right, 10 second stop go is as harsh as it gets bar disqualification, and that’s only necessary if a driver looks like they may end up killing someone.

[RPM40]

Jos didn't get a race ban for taking Montoya out in 2001, so I think a black flag would have been appropriate.

He didn’t “take him out”. We’ve seen instances of a driver crashing into another car. He just held his line to the apex and made no attempt to move. Max had plenty of space wide of the apex

[screamingV16]

Poor driving from Ocon. Funnily enough reminiscent of another overated midfield Force India driver (Hulkenburg) taking out the leader (Hamilton) in Brazil when being lapped in 2012.

[danmills]

Amusingly if he doesn't get a drive next year or the year after that's all he will be remembered for and the only discussing point of his previous results. If the title was still in progress he wouldn't have tried that move. If it was, that would definitely be a ban of sorts as its pretty much the single most sinful thing you can do. Especially as a backmarker.

[pRy]

Yeah but has Lewis said in the cooldown room, Max had more to lose. Ocon was entitled to put his car where he did. Max was the one who turned in. It was a racing incident.

 

I'm not sure he was entitled to do that. Yes back markers can un-lap themselves but that normally happens when a leader is cruising with a big lead and the race is in its final stages. Not half way into a GP when the top positions are close. And you certainly don't try to un-lap yourself on the inside going into turn 2 at Brazil regardless of the race circumstances. As Brundle said even if Ocon and Max had been fighting for position it would be very marginal.

 

The guy in 16th place or whatever it is should be much more aware of the situation and risk than the guy in 1st place. It's their job to get safely out of the way. Not to run wheel to wheel into a tight right hander and not give up the challenge.

[MrAerodynamicist]

Well let's remember it was Ocon trying to un-lap himself that resulted in this collision, not Max throwing one up the inside of a back marker.

But in terms of driving to win races and championships, the rights and wrongs of the other driver's actions mean little. What matters is intelligently reacting to the situation you find yourself in. I'm not convinced that an in-their-Prime Schumacher or Prost would have ended up colliding with Ocon had they been in the identical situation.

[theflyingwheel]

Show video of Max pushing Ocon.

 

https://twitter.com/...693826249588736

[Muppetmad]

I've seen the replay a few times, but still haven't been able to see the flag situation: was Ocon in the process of being lapped and being shown the blue flags, or was Ocon already lapped and trying to unlap himself? If the former, his penalty is entirely just. If the latter, I find the penalty confusing: Ocon has a right to try to unlap himself if he's faster (his move into turn 1 suggested he was at that point), and Verstappen has to leave room. In such a situation, it strikes me as a racing incident.

[pdac]

Lewis to Max "you had more to lose". Sums it up.

[MikeV1987]

I’m not convinced that the Force India on Super softs is any faster than a Red Bull on Softs without a DRS advantage. Ocon was too agressive there, no reason to keep your nose in through that corner under those circumstance when theirs another DRS zone coming up.

Edited by MikeV1987, 11 November 2018 - 19:00.

[CountDooku]

I'm not sure he was entitled to do that. Yes back markers can un-lap themselves but that normally happens when a leader is cruising with a big lead and the race is in its final stages. Not half way into a GP when the top positions are close. And you certainly don't try to un-lap yourself on the inside going into turn 2 at Brazil regardless of the race circumstances. As Brundle said even if Ocon and Max had been fighting for position it would be very marginal.

The guy in 16th place or whatever it is should be much more aware of the situation and risk than the guy in 1st place. It's their job to get safely out of the way. Not to run wheel to wheel into a tight right hander and not give up the challenge.

Yes it was very stupid of Ocon to pull that move but again, it isn’t illegal. And Max turned into him.
Don’t know why Ocon should get a penalty when the other car turned into him.

[Laptom]

Yeah but has Lewis said in the cooldown room, Max had more to lose. Ocon was entitled to put his car where he did. Max was the one who turned in. It was a racing incident.

Ocon received a blue flag. He was not entitled to be on that spot. He should leave room as soon as possible to the overtaker.

[Shuffle]

Really poor from Ocon, if you’re a lap down you don’t try and unlap yourself like that, you do it cleanly and decisively.