82 replies to this topic

[THEWALL]

 

 

Let´s send this as a memo to Brawn and Liberty, RE: Really simplifying front wings...

[santori]

Poetry in motion.

 

That's the one. Jolie laide.

[eibyyz]

Poetry in motion.

Oi, the center of gravity must have been about level with Jacques' ear!

[wingwalker]

I kinda like the 2008 BMW. Yes, all the aero bits are messy but there is a certain beauty in seeing such complexity. 

BMW F1.09 however:



It's really not a surprise BMW quit the sport after this. It's actually more surprising that they raced at all in 2009, one would think BMW board would pull the plug on F1 project at the moment when they saw what the factory has produced.



Not a real soft spot for this car, but everybody was s***ing all over it, and I kinda sorta liked it. Yes, far too many details in the pain job too look good on the move, but still, I never went "wow that's ugly" when I saw it, like appearently 95% of the internet:

Edited by wingwalker, 25 November 2018 - 21:56.

[ClubmanGT]

Has to be the snow plough. 

[goldenboy]

This makes current f1 look too much like a spec series.

[Beri]

Not for me. But this seems to arouse the missus. That must be something of a soft spot as well..?

[goldenboy]

Not for me. But this seems to arouse the missus. That must be something of a soft spot as well..?

Woulda been a nice looking car without the peen hanging off it's chin.

[charles r]

 

The Cooper Maserati T86 - Pretty ugly, but purposeful

Edited by charles r, 26 November 2018 - 07:02.

[potmotr]

I kinda like the 2008 BMW. Yes, all the aero bits are messy but there is a certain beauty in seeing such complexity. 

BMW F1.09 however:



It's really not a surprise BMW quit the sport after this. It's actually more surprising that they raced at all in 2009, one would think BMW board would pull the plug on F1 project at the moment when they saw what the factory has produced.

 

God I remember seeing that thing for the first time and being shocked by how ugly it was.

 

The 2009 Renault was utterly disgusting too.

[cpbell]

 

The Cooper Maserati T86 - Pretty ugly, but purposeful

Absolutely. 

[SenorSjon]

I kinda like the 2008 BMW. Yes, all the aero bits are messy but there is a certain beauty in seeing such complexity. 

BMW F1.09 however:



It's really not a surprise BMW quit the sport after this. It's actually more surprising that they raced at all in 2009, one would think BMW board would pull the plug on F1 project at the moment when they saw what the factory has produced.



Not a real soft spot for this car, but everybody was s***ing all over it, and I kinda sorta liked it. Yes, far too many details in the pain job too look good on the move, but still, I never went "wow that's ugly" when I saw it, like appearently 95% of the internet:

 

 

God I remember seeing that thing for the first time and being shocked by how ugly it was.

 

The 2009 Renault was utterly disgusting too.

 

Dunno about you two, but what was wrong with the BMW? The fugly wings were mandatory and ruined every car in that ruleset. It got worse and worse every year. Next year, we will have snowploughs again. 

[Andrew Hope]

I'm sure it's probably been mentioned that I've missed it but the tea tray March 711.

I think most of March's F1/2 cars were very pretty but that thing...

Edited by Andrew Hope, 05 December 2018 - 16:32.

[Afterburner]

*barf on wheels*

This was, and still is, probably the aesthetically ugliest thing I have ever seen. Just absolutely disgusting on pretty much every level, from the d!ck nose that looked like it was bolted on as an afterthought, the upturned bent-cheese-wedge nose support, the ugly-ass disproportionate wings, the dongles stuck all over the blocky, swollen side pods, and the six-cylinder, slow, unreliable dog-fart in the back... the pinnacle of awful. If there’s any redeeming feature about this car at all, it’s that its rear wing carried an accurate statement of its aerodynamic efficiency.

Edited by Afterburner, 05 December 2018 - 17:15.

[midgrid]

The Caterham was significantly improved with a revised nose:

 

[MikeV1987]

Ferrari F2012 - I’ve always had a soft spot for this car. it looks menacing from certain angles. It reminds me of a crocodile or something.

[messy]

The Caterham was significantly improved with a revised nose:
 

Still a bit of a tank for me. That and the Lotus E22 were the proper uglies of that season's grid weren't they? Even when they toned down the noses.

[mmmcurry]

Another vote for the FW26, won more races than the recent Williams'.

Steve.

[PayasYouRace]

Another vote for the FW26, won more races than the recent Williams'.
Steve.

Though it did win with a conventional nose.

[teejay]

I kinda like the 2008 BMW. Yes, all the aero bits are messy but there is a certain beauty in seeing such complexity. 

BMW F1.09 however:



It's really not a surprise BMW quit the sport after this. It's actually more surprising that they raced at all in 2009, one would think BMW board would pull the plug on F1 project at the moment when they saw what the factory has produced.


 

 

 

To make it worse, they gave up on 08 development to focus on 2009 when they had a great car in 2008 and could have really given the 08 title a shake had they thrown their weight behind that year.

[mmmcurry]

Though it did win with a conventional nose.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

Steve.

[Peat]

The 1993 Benetton was a Scalextric car i lusted after in a shop window for (what seemed like) years. I finally saved up enough for it and gradually destroyed it in a series of devastating crashes in household furniture. 

I've always thought it was beautiful but had it expressed to me that it was an ugly boat and brought about the rot of high noses. 

Edited by Peat, 06 December 2018 - 07:37.

[Rinehart]

Poetry in motion.

When I look at photos like this is just think how beautifully simple the world was and how funny it was that in 1970 the best designers did not realise what obvious performance disadvantage having such an airbox was. 40 years later and even a schoolchild would be able to explain how to make that car go much quicker with some relatively minor changes! I wonder if, for those of us who will still be around, we will be looking at the current cars in 40 years time, thinking the same. 

[Peat]

It'll be interesting as the current CFD is coded by humans. In 40 years, i suspect software like that will self-optimise with AI.

[Kalmake]

Maybe the designer thought that if the airbox is round-shaped it wont generate much drag despite the size.

 

Mad looking designs always have some idea behind them. March tea tray does well in yaw. Ensign front radiators moves them away from the newly important side tunnels.

 

My favorite cars all of them.

 

Nissan's Le Mans adventure had this same charm. It was a mix of ideas that could perhaps work in theory, but nothing did. 

[TecnoRacing]

When I look at photos like this is just think how beautifully simple the world was and how funny it was that in 1970 the best designers did not realise what obvious performance disadvantage having such an airbox was. 40 years later and even a schoolchild would be able to explain how to make that car go much quicker with some relatively minor changes! I wonder if, for those of us who will still be around, we will be looking at the current cars in 40 years time, thinking the same. 

 

I don't quite understand the thinking behind of the JS5 airbox shape...but it's not like the 1970's designers did not recognize concepts related to aero drag, or disrupting air flow to the rear wing.

This was Gérard Ducarouge (a literal Rocket scientist) design...and it was not slow.

[Henri Greuter]

I don't quite understand the thinking behind of the JS5 airbox shape...but it's not like the 1970's designers did not recognize concepts related to aero drag, or disrupting air flow to the rear wing.
This was Gérard Ducarouge (a literal Rocket scientist) design...and it was not slow.

I must be careful with digging op from memory and not knowing the source anymore to verify it. But there is one memory I have about that tea-pot Ligier that I either once heard or read but where? Anyway. What I recall was that the idea was to have the entry of the airbox up high, as far away as possible from the air above bodywork etc. which was disrupted by turbulence from the front wing and front wheels, cockpit cowling etc. Thus inducing a more constant (undisturbed) airflow within the airbox. The longer distance the air had to travel to the inlets of the Matra V12 also enabled the air to smoothen out, be more steady and constant and because of that enhance power output. There was a larger frontal area of course but a better power output was hoped for to compensate for that.

Edited by Henri Greuter, 07 December 2018 - 07:20.

[messy]

I kinda like the 2008 BMW. Yes, all the aero bits are messy but there is a certain beauty in seeing such complexity. 

BMW F1.09 however:



It's really not a surprise BMW quit the sport after this. It's actually more surprising that they raced at all in 2009, one would think BMW board would pull the plug on F1 project at the moment when they saw what the factory has produced.
 

 

One of the strangest cars in recent F1 I reckon. Such a weird looking boat of a design, led to BMW withdrawing, just wrong on so many levels and a backwards step after 2008, but had a shot at winning the Australian GP, shadowed Webber home for second on merit in Brazil, second at Sepang, in the back end of the season legimitately one of the quickest cars on the grid at some tracks. 

 

What a weird year 09 was.

[PayasYouRace]

I don't quite understand the thinking behind of the JS5 airbox shape...but it's not like the 1970's designers did not recognize concepts related to aero drag, or disrupting air flow to the rear wing.

This was Gérard Ducarouge (a literal Rocket scientist) design...and it was not slow.

 

You're probably over estimating the amount of aerodynamic expertise and resource available to the F1 teams of the 1970s.

[Talisman]

I don't quite understand the thinking behind of the JS5 airbox shape...but it's not like the 1970's designers did not recognize concepts related to aero drag, or disrupting air flow to the rear wing.
This was Gérard Ducarouge (a literal Rocket scientist) design...and it was not slow.

Just a guess but the small aperture and large air box behind suggests they were looking to use the Venturi effect to suck air in as well as place it high out of the turbulent air to maximise the effect.

[Beri]

Look at the career of Ducarouge and the timeline of Ligier, and eventually you will end up at Prost Grand Prix somehow.
Now, the AP01 was a boat to some. A heap of junk (thanks to the gearbox) to others. A feast of sore eyes. But to me, it still is to this day, elegant, beautiful and has one of the best liveries I have ever witnessed on track. That shade of blue is almost too perfect. Those curves. That patriotic "everything has to be French" attitude that brought so many French sponsors onboard. That Pug lion. It is, to me, perfection in motion.

Edited by Beri, 07 December 2018 - 16:26.

[messy]

The AP01 was a beauty. So were the Arrows A19 and the Tyrrell 026 to my eyes. The back of the grid that year was quite nice.

[John B]

The transition from the sleek ground effect cars of 1982 to 1983 was pretty abrupt (compare the 82 and 83 Ferrari with the oversized rear wing for example). Necessary though for safety and the season did have some good racing. Nice to have some variety in design like the Brabham.