342 replies to this topic

[FPV GTHO]

With the end of season tyre test finished, a few pieces of information are coming out regarding next year's tyres

- The current Supersoft will be dropped as it's thought to perform too similarly to the Ultrasoft.

- The remaining compounds have all been revised except the Soft. The Hypersoft has been revised to hopefully suffer less graining and the Medium and Hard have been made softer.

- Hypersoft homologation needs to be decided by December 1

- Compound choice for Australia needs to be set by Pirelli by December 6

- Compound selection for pre season testing and the first 5 races needs to be done by the teams by December 13

Curiously, it looks like the Superhard will live on despite not being nominated at all for 2018.

[SenorSjon]

First reaction from drivers is that there isn't much difference. Still one lap wonders before serious saving is required.

[Jerem]

Tyre choices for Australia. Looks like 2019 Pirellis are slightly too hard.

 

[Jovanotti]

Wtf

[haryantofan666]

Another year of boring 1 stop races coming up... Thank you Pirelli!

[Hellenic tifosi]

So everyone starts on the Soft, and then it's a question of whether you switch to Mediums or Hards.

[Tiakumosan]

It will get a while to get used to call yellows medium.

[ConsiderAndGo]

Just take the C5s to all circuits and be done with it.

[Grippy]

I'm pleased about soft-medium-hard as I always struggled with hyper-ultra.

 

I wish they didn't have to use 2 different compounds as I'd prefer to see some on medium-medium, soft-medium or soft-soft-soft.

[SCUDmissile]

How can the tyres be so hard, yet degrade so fast? It's astounding how different (worse) the Pirellis have been compared to the Bridgestone a.

[FPV GTHO]

We may yet see a difference now they're always the thinner tread. Theoretically physical wear will now be more of a factor.

[SenorSjon]

How can the tyres be so hard, yet degrade so fast? It's astounding how different (worse) the Pirellis have been compared to the Bridgestone a.

 

Even worse is, they can't seem to get rid of them.

[Bleu]

Melbourne is usually low-deg circuit so I'm surprised that Pirelli hasn't gone with softest option.

 

Regardless of tyre selections though, softest option always takes preference since it's important to have fresh softest tyres in qualifying.

[TomNokoe]

I'm going to be posting this all season, but the competitive midfield is going to force the top teams to use the Softer compounds in Q2

[Bleu]

I'm going to be posting this all season, but the competitive midfield is going to force the top teams to use the Softer compounds in Q2

 

I hope this is the case. After all, majority of last year's one-stop strategies used medium and hard or soft and hard. (I talk in this year's sense, so meaning that it wasn't that common to go through two softest compounds)

[TomNokoe]

Very conservative from Pirelli in the opening races. Bizarre.

[ConsiderAndGo]

Very conservative from Pirelli in the opening races. Bizarre.

They clearly have no faith in their products whatsoever.

[Hellenic tifosi]

That is ridiculus. Noone even touched the C1 during preseason testing, the C2 was brilliantly consistent, and yet they bring the C1 to TWO races!

[Kalmake]

That is ridiculus. Noone even touched the C1 during preseason testing, the C2 was brilliantly consistent, and yet they bring the C1 to TWO races!

Usually a lot hotter conditions than winter testing in those races.

[SenorSjon]

They clearly have no faith in their products whatsoever.

 

Just like the rest of the world actually.

[JeePee]

Usually a lot hotter conditions than winter testing in those races.

So you're saying we're gonna get 2-stop races?

 

 

Nahh.

[TomNokoe]

Already last season, Bahrain was a brilliant race strategically, so why make the tyres one step harder?

And why do they continue to avoid the Hypers (C5) for Baku?!?!

[ConsiderAndGo]

There won't be 2 stop races. That C2 will go on and on and onnnnnnn!

[SenorSjon]

Already last season, Bahrain was a brilliant race strategically, so why make the tyres one step harder?

And why do they continue to avoid the Hypers (C5) for Baku?!?!

 

Probably due to the long straight shredding the tire.

[haryantofan666]

China and Canada tyre selection seem alright. Maybe we get a 2 stop race in China. Probably the only one all season   All the other choices are too conservative, nobody's going to use the C1 and Melbourne and Baku are streettracks, why not bring the c5 there?

 

dumbass company

[f1paul]

I'm going to be posting this all season, but the competitive midfield is going to force the top teams to use the Softer compounds in Q2

I hope this happens too Tom.

 

But, the difference between tyre compounds may not be big enough to force the top teams to use softer compounds. If the difference was 1.1+ then yes, but from last year we saw that it was less than 0.5 a lot of the time so I think the top teams will still be able to get through on the medium compound. There's just not a big enough gap between the tyre compounds/the top teams will still be over a second quicker than the 5th best team.

[TomNokoe]

I hope this happens too Tom.

But, the difference between tyre compounds may not be big enough to force the top teams to use softer compounds. If the difference was 1.1+ then yes, but from last year we saw that it was less than 0.5 a lot of the time so I think the top teams will still be able to get through on the medium compound. There's just not a big enough gap between the tyre compounds/the top teams will still be over a second quicker than the 5th best team.

It seems like the most common selection this season will be C2-C3-C4.

In 2017-18 money, the C4 is two steps softer than the C3.

But yes, the top teams will probably retain enough pace.

[Nemo1965]

I never understood all the bitching and moaning about Pirelli. They deliver the tires according to the demands of the F1-technical chiefs, with the intent to create more exiting races. Of course Pirelli 'fails' in that aspect because the F1-technical chiefs are too chicken or too politically invested to change the cars themselves.

 

So you ask a company that for one-hundred years or so to kind of play around with their core-business  - which is fabricating foolproof tyres - and create tyres that degrade much faster than ordinary street or race-tyres but not degrade too much because otherwise the racing isn't good either.

 

I think the Pirelli company must be masochistic in the first place to ever have accepted this deal and the conditions under which they have placed themselves. Yes, Pirelli chose itself to get involved in F1, but at the same time... geez. They will never please everyone and in our social media-age THAT is the only way you can win these days: to try to please everyone and in the end you annoy everyone.

[TheGoldenStoffel]

Pirelli keeps alternating between different problems, one year it's blistering, then the cliff, the next year it's overheating, the following year it's graining, then it's the narrow operating windows. Every time they try to fix one of those they end up with one of the other problems again, it's a never ending circle from one problem to the other... 

 

There is always a reason why they have to go conservative and every year they promise us that "next year will be better", but it never is....They always find a reason to shift the blame away from them, tyre failures are always because of debris, the fact they always have problems with their tyres one way or the other is always the fault of the teams.

 

I'm so sick of them, I get that they are in a difficult position where they have to create tyres that degrade on purpose but they simply seem to be out of their dept. I'm sure a Michelin or Bridgestone would be able to create degrading tyres that don't need all kind of trick rims to get them into a specific operating window and simply work on all cars relatively easy. Maybe they need a year or two but I'm sure they will figure it out, Pirelli is in their 9(?) or so season and they still can't produce proper tyres!

 

/rant over

[JeePee]

I never understood all the bitching and moaning about Pirelli. They deliver the tires according to the demands of the F1-technical chiefs, with the intent to create more exiting races. Of course Pirelli 'fails' in that aspect because the F1-technical chiefs are too chicken or too politically invested to change the cars themselves.

 

So you ask a company that for one-hundred years or so to kind of play around with their core-business  - which is fabricating foolproof tyres - and create tyres that degrade much faster than ordinary street or race-tyres but not degrade too much because otherwise the racing isn't good either.

 

I think the Pirelli company must be masochistic in the first place to ever have accepted this deal and the conditions under which they have placed themselves. Yes, Pirelli chose itself to get involved in F1, but at the same time... geez. They will never please everyone and in our social media-age THAT is the only way you can win these days: to try to please everyone and in the end you annoy everyone.

The F1-technical chiefs never demanded tyres with a 2°C operating window. Nor for tyres that exploded when you put 0,02° too much camber on them.

 

They asked for fast degrading tyres. Not tyres that are overheated and lose grip in sector 3, because you pushed a whole whooping 2 sectors on them.

 

Pirelli's tyres are ****, and it has very little to do with the demands from F1.

[Yoshi]

@ScarbsTech 20 Std.vor 20 Stunden

Mehr

A reminder of the 2019 #F1 @pirellisport race tyre selection system

 

 

Let's make it easier to follow it  

[Priyantha Bleeker]

Hihihi much easier yes

[Nemo1965]

[quote name="JeePee" post="8668642" timestamp="1552030030"]

The F1-technical chiefs never demanded tyres with a 2°C operating window. Nor for tyres that exploded when you put 0,02° too much camber on them.

They asked for fast degrading tyres. Not tyres that are overheated and lose grip in sector 3, because you pushed a whole whooping 2 sectors on them.

Pirelli's tyres are ****, and it has very little to do with the demands from F1

Waldorf and Astoria.

Edited by Nemo1965, 08 March 2019 - 08:15.

[FPV GTHO]

Melbourne can get alot hotter than other tracks that would otherwise use the softest tyres.

[TheGoldenStoffel]

The F1-technical chiefs never demanded tyres with a 2°C operating window. Nor for tyres that exploded when you put 0,02° too much camber on them.

 

They asked for fast degrading tyres. Not tyres that are overheated and lose grip in sector 3, because you pushed a whole whooping 2 sectors on them.

 

Pirelli's tyres are ****, and it has very little to do with the demands from F1.

 

Exactly!

 

People always defend Pirelli on the basis that these are the tyres F1 demands from them but that simply isn't true, F1 only demands fast degrading tyres. Not tyres which blister, not tyres which need extremely high tyre-pressures to ensure they don't explode, not tyres which need extremely strict camber levels to ensure they don't explode, not tyres which will overheat when you dare to push them for more than 2 sectors. F1 only demands tyres which degrade fast!

 

The fact Pirelli after all those years still not seem to be able to produce proper tyres which degrade fast but not have all these shortcomings shows how incompetent they are!

[SenorSjon]

You can't push the tire for more than 4 km's... let that sink in while thinking about all the GREEN clamouring from FIA and the likes.

[Diablobb81]

They deliver the tires according to the demands of the F1-technical chiefs, with the intent to create more exiting races. O

 

A good example that Pirelli PR works.

[Boxerevo]

Jokes on with this C4 blowing up.

[SCUDmissile]

Fair enough Seb is **** blabla, but how bad are these Pirellis that if you spin, you completely ruin the tyre to the extent that the front wing just wobbles off??

I've never heard of such a thing.

Something similar happened to Vettel China and Baku last year.

After a spin, it might as well have been a puncture.

I've never seen that before. Is that just my ignorance, because I thought after a spin, sure the tyres lose a bit of performance and you may need to put sooner as the tyres degrade sooner, but surely not to the extent that they are undrivable?

I mean Seb caused no damage to his car with the spin itself ffs!

Pirelli surprise me with how rubbish they are every time.

[Marklar]

It's not unusual that spins can cause flatspots, which then causes vibrations, that those vibrations are then enough to kill the front wing is less Pirelli's fault, but more so the teams for how they (had) to construct it.

[P123]

Fair enough Seb is **** blabla, but how bad are these Pirellis that if you spin, you completely ruin the tyre to the extent that the front wing just wobbles off??

I've never heard of such a thing.

Something similar happened to Vettel China and Baku last year.

After a spin, it might as well have been a puncture.

I've never seen that before. Is that just my ignorance, because I thought after a spin, sure the tyres lose a bit of performance and you may need to put sooner as the tyres degrade sooner, but surely not to the extent that they are undrivable?

I mean Seb caused no damage to his car with the spin itself ffs!

Pirelli surprise me with how rubbish they are every time.

The question should point to just how flimsily that wing is mounted in order that it failed so quickly. It's not unusual to have flatspots after spinning and this would have been on all four tyres- Bahrain being an abrasive surface wouldn't help matters. It's worth noting that Vettel was able to carry on after spins in Suzuka and Austin. Also, Baku was a massive lockup from high speed (otherwise he was in the wall) so any tyre would be wrecked by that (just as Hamilton's were earlier in the same race). And he immediately buried the throttle after the Max punt in China, which wasn't particularly kind to his tyres.

Edited by P123, 07 April 2019 - 18:17.

[SCUDmissile]

Flatspots, yes. But full on delaminations, no.

This was more than just a flatspot.

[P123]

Flatspots, yes. But full on delaminations, no.

This was more than just a flatspot.

I'd need to watch again... but thought the delamination was a result of the failed wing going under the wheels and cutting into the tyres.

[Marklar]

 

“Vettel had a spin at high speed, which caused big flat spots on all four tyres (and vibrations that were potentially significant enough to remove the front wing).

“The left-rear tyre was subjected to the most load, and this did indeed partially delaminate against the abrasive asphalt in Bahrain. The right-front however was the only tyre that actually punctured following the incident: the other three tyres stayed up.”

That aside we saw this with Michelin and Bridgestone as well. Whether it should happen is a different question, but it's (for once) not a Pirelli exclusive problem.

Tbh with the lack of gravel traps to punish mistakes I would take this if it wasnt a bit dangerous 

[Nonesuch]

Does Pirelli actually compete anywhere other than in the European Rally Championship (with Michelin)?

 

They're the sponsor/sole supplier in:

• Formula 1
• Formula 2
• GP3
• Trans Am
• GT3 Cup USA
• World Challenge Championship
• Ferrari Challenges
• Lamborghini Super Trofeo
• Superbike World Championship
• FIM Motocross World Championship

Amusingly, Pirelli's own website declares Superbike "definitely the most important example of how racing is Pirelli's preferred R&D platform".

[muramasa]

Surely such tyre that gets shot by merely one quick lap is much easier to get much deeper flatspot and damage to tyre by spinning than tyre with which drivers can do quali run for the whole stint like Bridgestone and Michelin can ever possibly be, so it's not surprising at all that such rather mild spin destroyed the tyre causing even front wing wobbling off. So yes it's Pirelli, of course.

[SenorSjon]

That aside we saw this with Michelin and Bridgestone as well. Whether it should happen is a different question, but it's (for once) not a Pirelli exclusive problem.

Tbh with the lack of gravel traps to punish mistakes I would take this if it wasnt a bit dangerous 

 

That spin wasn't that high speed. Verstappen had a similar one in the cool down lap. That shouldn't destroy a tire like it did.

[CoolBreeze]

They should just bring back Bridgestones.

[thegforcemaybewithyou]

Even Pirelli now seems tired of supplying high degradation tyres, 2020 might bring some change in tyre characteristics.

 

https://www.racefans...-tyres-in-2020/

[Nonesuch]

Pirelli is full of it.

 

For this year, Pirelli said: "We wanted to design tyres that are less sensitive to overheating and a bit more consistent because with the full package. We maybe have one-stop but more action on-track. That’s the target, for overtaking on track.” ( https://www.racefans...action-in-2019/ )

 

Two races later: "Teams up and down the pitlane are reporting that getting the surface and bulk temperature of the tyre matched up is more difficult since the introduction of the 2019-spec narrow gauge Pirelli." ( https://www.motorspo...bahrain-f1-leap )

 

How it is that F1 puts up with this nonsense is beyond incomprehensible. Imagine if McLaren's spec ECU was causing this much trouble and has such a huge influence on the competitive order. Nobody would put up with it.

 

Yet the spec tyres are so badly constructed that they require extreme pressures to stay intact, have an ridiculously narrow operating window, and overheat so fast that you can't even do a full quali lap on them... never mind that they fall apart when a car spins.

 

Spec parts should not be so important and influential. But even if you can accept that spec tyres are crucially important, it should still be of some concern that Pirelli has constantly failed to live up to their own outlines for what they want their tyres to achieve.

Edited by Nonesuch, 08 April 2019 - 10:21.