342 replies to this topic

[V8 Fireworks]

Horrible horrible tyres.

 

 

The tyres produced a 2-3s per lap difference between used and new tyres, as they are designed to do in order to create strategy options -- this allowed Magnussen in a HAAS to snatch the fastest lap.  They worked well.

 

Those on new tyres such as Norris, Gasly, Giovanazzi and Hulkenberg were able to go on the attack passing cars in the Singapore grand prix, producing plenty of action.

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 23 September 2019 - 13:22.

[SCUDmissile]

Man, if you thought Singapore was boring, Pirelli are bringing harder tyres than last year to Russia. Of all places!

 

P.S might rain in quali though and will be quite cold

aah so we may be seeing the worst pirelli tyre of the lot, the pirelli wet tyre! 

[Hellenic tifosi]

The tyres were good in Singapore - shame that the SC didn't allow us to see if the hards would last.

[Bleu]

It was a shame that none of the top teams gambled for a pit stop during the first SC. Would have cost some positions in the beginning. I guess Albon would have ended between two Racing Points (10th). Passing those on the older tyres (PER, RAI, MAG, NOR) should not have been too tough task and then he would have been where he was with fresher tyres compared to the rest.

[rdebourbon]

I wish they would allow the teams more freedom on pressures.. seems that on lower pressures different teams find the sweet spot compared to high pressures.. could be a quick way to spice up the battles up and down the field - i.e. allow a larger range of pressures so that more teams can find their own sweet spot..

[Clatter]

I wish they would allow the teams more freedom on pressures.. seems that on lower pressures different teams find the sweet spot compared to high pressures.. could be a quick way to spice up the battles up and down the field - i.e. allow a larger range of pressures so that more teams can find their own sweet spot..

 

I agree. Pirelli being able to mandate a change in pressures over the course of a weekend can adversely some teams more than others, and can be seen as a way to manipulate the race. Let Pirelli make recommendations, but let the team run what they want. If they get it wrong, then they have to take the blame.

[Niceman]

I agree. Pirelli being able to mandate a change in pressures over the course of a weekend can adversely some teams more than others, and can be seen as a way to manipulate the race. Let Pirelli make recommendations, but let the team run what they want. If they get it wrong, then they have to take the blame.

 

Amen to that.

[mangeliiito]

I agree. Pirelli being able to mandate a change in pressures over the course of a weekend can adversely some teams more than others, and can be seen as a way to manipulate the race. Let Pirelli make recommendations, but let the team run what they want. If they get it wrong, then they have to take the blame.

Last time they did that didn't the tires go ka-boom?
While in the recommeded range that is, so now it's the same for everyone.

[Marklar]

No tyre mfr of this world would allow teams to go over recommendations (as in, limits) and then take the blame for failures. Regardless who is to be blamed for its bad press for the tyre maker.

They definitely should stop changing them during the weekend though.

[Clatter]

Last time they did that didn't the tires go ka-boom?
While in the recommeded range that is, so now it's the same for everyone.

 

It's not the same if a team has been running well in FP and then the pressure is upped to a level that doesn't suit their car.

[mangeliiito]

It's not the same if a team has been running well in FP and then the pressure is upped to a level that doesn't suit their car.

Tell me about it, and it always seems to suit Mercedes.

[Marklar]

Tell me about it, and it always seems to suit Mercedes.

I wonder on what people are always basing this of? Pirelli always changes the tyre pressures midway through the weekend and it happened on many occasions even after Mercedes dominated practice (and especially in 2017 with Ferrari being then much stronger than prior to the change).

They certainly influenced the outcome of some weekends in that way, but objectively it seems to go either way in terms of who is affected by this judging by post-quali reactions.

That aside that tyre pressures are not the only thing that can throw teams off from friday to saturday.

[mangeliiito]

They certainly influenced the outcome of some weekends in that way, but objectively it seems to go either way in terms of who is affected by this judging by post-quali reactions.

I personally read more complaints about it from Ferrari, Red Bull and the likes than Mercedes, but it can of course be that I missed those times when it was the other way around.

[Marklar]

So if all teams agree (apparently one wont) the Q2 start tyre rule will finally be gone in 2020 https://www.motorspo...e-rule/4587136/

[MJB5990]

Who do we think don't agree? Don't really understand, the current rules don't favour anybody.

[Marklar]

Who do we think don't agree? Don't really understand, the current rules don't favour anybody.

Right now they favour the most lower midfield teams who seldomly qualify into Q3. That is pretty hard to predict for 2020, so I doubt that it's one of them.

More likely it's one of the top teams, it usually favours them too.

[SophieB]

Motorsport.com‏Verified account @Motorsport 17m17 minutes ago

More

#F1 could abandon Pirelli's 2020 tyres following negative feedback from drivers in #USGP practice:

https://t.co/64YZQ1DyXH

 

Otmar Szafnauer of Racing Point believes that it's inevitable that the 2020 tyres will be abandoned.

"I think that's the most likely outcome." he told Motorsport.com. "The 2020 construction really didn't deliver what they said they were going to deliver, and it's more risky that the value that it could deliver, so I think we've got no choice but to go back. Ask the drivers – it didn't do what they said it was going to do."

Pirelli F1 boss Mario Isola insisted that Austin was not a representative test, and that more would be learned in Abu Dhabi in December.

 

[GoldenColt]

LOL - Pirelli, the gift that keeps on giving.

[JeePee]

Hahaha

[Marklar]

It's not even like they didnt had enough testing

No doubt Isola will cry about it that most teams didnt used their regular drivers for the tyre tests during this year

[TomNokoe]

Ah cmon, just go ahead anyway, who cares

[SenorSjon]

So if all teams agree (apparently one wont) the Q2 start tyre rule will finally be gone in 2020 https://www.motorspo...e-rule/4587136/

 

Oddly enough, it was put up for voting this time last year as well, but it didn't get an unanimous vote, yet it had a majority. Why the didn't push it for 2020 back then is beyond me. That rule should have been voted on already. Now they need another unanimous vote and it could fail yet again.

[FPV GTHO]

It's not even like they didnt had enough testing

No doubt Isola will cry about it that most teams didnt used their regular drivers for the tyre tests during this year

 

Didnt they only do a single test for this design, as there was a last minute push to change the 2020 characteristics?

[Tiakumosan]

This is funny now: https://www.motorspo...ankook/3208817/

[Marklar]

Didnt they only do a single test for this design, as there was a last minute push to change the 2020 characteristics?

AFAIK the push came in the summer and they had a few testing days since then? One with the finalized version in Barcelona before the Japanese GP I believe.

 

 

This is funny now: https://www.motorspo...ankook/3208817/

Well, it's not exactly a great choice between Pirelli and Hankook....

[ARTGP]

I'd love to see Michelin give this F1 tire a shot again.  Historically, Michelin has been the best tire in every discipline that they enter (WRC, WEC, MotoGP, GT3 etc)

[JeePee]

I'd love to see Michelin give this F1 tire a shot again.  Historically, Michelin has been the best tire in every discipline that they enter (WRC, WEC, MotoGP, GT3 etc)

You can add 'road' to that as well.

[Astandahl]

Pirelli is a trash supplier we all know that but this shitshow has been caused by FIA as well. There should be way more testing for the tyres.

[shure]

I'd love to see Michelin give this F1 tire a shot again.  Historically, Michelin has been the best tire in every discipline that they enter (WRC, WEC, MotoGP, GT3 etc)

That's because Michelin focus on performance, not comedy effect.  Pirelli are happy to make tyres to spice up the show whereas Michelin want to make tyres for racing.  The two concepts aren't usually compatible.  

[JeePee]

That's because Michelin focus on performance, not comedy effect.  Pirelli are happy to make tyres to spice up the show whereas Michelin want to make tyres for racing.  The two concepts aren't usually compatible.  

Even if Pirelli wanted to focus on performance, they wouldn't know what they're doing.

 

Pirelli is in F1 for almost 10 years now and they still don't know which race strategy will be the quickest.

[Yoshi]

 

Motorsport.com‏Verified account @Motorsport 17m17 minutes ago

More

#F1 could abandon Pirelli's 2020 tyres following negative feedback from drivers in #USGP practice:

https://t.co/64YZQ1DyXH

 

In Abu Dabi we will hear the same i guess..    but then its too late anyway..

[Planetdune]

I have little knowledge of the matter but I can't understand why it is so hard, in 2019, to construct a decent tyre. Is this rocket engineering levels of difficulty? We have been using them on road vehicles for over 100 years now and while I get that it is a complex chemical mix it still seems we should have figured it out by now. Instead we keep hearing driver/team complaints year after year after year after ... if it really is so hard then just produce a tyre that can easily last an entire race and pit stops are only for emergency repairs, tweaks or retirements. Problem solved. I'm just personally sick about listening to everyone talk about the damn things all the time. I'm fully aware they are an avenue of tactical distinction between teams but I wouldn't mind going back to more pure racing and less management.

Edited by Planetdune, 05 November 2019 - 14:06.

[shure]

I have little knowledge of the matter but I can't understand why it is so hard, in 2019, to construct a decent tyre. Is this rocket engineering levels of difficulty? We have been using them on road vehicles for over 100 years now and while I get that it is a complex chemical mix it still seems we should have figured it out by now. Instead we keep hearing driver/team complaints year after year after year after ... if it really is so hard then just produce a tyre that can easily last an entire race and pit stops are only for emergency repairs, tweaks or retirements. Problem solved. I'm just personally sick about listening to everyone talk about the damn things all the time. I'm fully aware they are an avenue of tactical distinction between teams but I wouldn't mind going back to more pure racing and less management.

It's difficult because they are not trying to produce a high-performance racing tyre.  Instead they are trying to add built-in wear characteristics in order to generate artificial strategy alternatives, which leads to complications in behavior.  That's why they have all these issues.

[JeePee]

It's difficult because they are not trying to produce a high-performance racing tyre.  Instead they are trying to add built-in wear characteristics in order to generate artificial strategy alternatives, which leads to complications in behavior.  That's why they have all these issues.

No. They have all these issues because they are incompetent.

 

Firestone in Indycar manages soft vs. harder tyres perfectly fine. Older F1 tyres also had to be replaced after an x number of laps, but it was still possible to do 10 consecutive 'qualifying laps' in the race on them without them overheating after 1 corner.

[DutchQuicksilver]

Haas will probably be cheering right now....not

[JeePee]

If you thought the tyres couldn't get worse:

 

https://www.planetf1...-stop-strategy/

 

“Unfortunately we couldn’t use the hard tyre with Alex because on an install lap on Saturday, it got what they call a ‘cold crack’,” he said.

“So Pirelli wouldn’t allow the use of that tyre and because it had done an install lap it couldn’t be replaced."

[shure]

If you thought the tyres couldn't get worse:

 

https://www.planetf1...-stop-strategy/

 

“Unfortunately we couldn’t use the hard tyre with Alex because on an install lap on Saturday, it got what they call a ‘cold crack’,” he said.

“So Pirelli wouldn’t allow the use of that tyre and because it had done an install lap it couldn’t be replaced."

I find that quite bizarre that if Pirelli have determined a fault in the tyre that they then can't replace it.  Just when you think the rule makers can't be doing much worse things like this come up

Edited by shure, 08 November 2019 - 11:40.

[Kalmake]

Another reason why blankets will be staying.

[Marklar]

I laugh if this happens

Albert Fabrega
No changes on post on Abu Dhabi 2020 tyres test. If after the test there are evidences that they don't perform as expected, teams will vote. If 70% against them, F1 will use same 2019 tyres on 2020. New construction need different setup that was not properly tested in Austin.

[Claymore25]

I laugh if this happens

Albert Fabrega
No changes on post on Abu Dhabi 2020 tyres test. If after the test there are evidences that they don't perform as expected, teams will vote. If 70% against them, F1 will use same 2019 tyres on 2020. New construction need different setup that was not properly tested in Austin.

 

I can't understand how Pirelli could be so incompetent.

[Yoshi]

I laugh if this happens

Albert Fabrega
No changes on post on Abu Dhabi 2020 tyres test. If after the test there are evidences that they don't perform as expected, teams will vote. If 70% against them, F1 will use same 2019 tyres on 2020. New construction need different setup that was not properly tested in Austin.

 

    

[FPV GTHO]

I can't understand how Pirelli could be so incompetent.

The teams brought this on themselves wanting the 2020 tyres changed at the last minute.

[Sterzo]

Generally my sympathy has been with Pirelli, for having to produce joke tyres at the behest of the FIA. Must admit I'm now starting to wonder...

 

They have no choice but to produce tyres that degrade rapidly. But structural failures, overheating, tyres with a narrow temperature operating window, tyres performing not as expected? All this when there's no competition. Racing's major challenge, being quicker than the opposition, doesn't even face Pirelli. They could go ultra-conservative and still meet the requirements.