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Who vetoed Ricciardo's move to Ferrari


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#51 r4mses

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 11:49

Oh, it's a "driver X has veto rights on his team mate"-thread again.  :drunk:



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#52 gowebber

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 11:50

Ricciardo: Got a seat for 2019? I haven't heard from you.
Ferrari: No, we have Leclerc.
Ricciardo: K thx, bye.

 

Disregarding the fact your ignoring the most likely multiple discussions, in what world would you discuss a potential multi million dollar drive at a leading F1 team in such lack of detail and flippancy let alone directly by yourself and not also with your manager? He's not asking the local bakery if they have any Saturday morning casual work available.  :lol:


Edited by gowebber, 03 December 2018 - 11:52.


#53 sopa

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 11:55

Oh, it's a "driver X has veto rights on his team mate"-thread again.  :drunk:

 

Vettel will regret for the rest of his life that he didn't veto Leclerc. That sneaky bastard looked harmless at first sight, but starts the real attack, when it's too late to do anything about it. :p



#54 Zilbert

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 12:05

Me thinks there probably wasn't really " a deal " of any sorts that would even require a veto from anybody. You would have to have a " yes " from somebody before somebody else needs to veto it. A bit of the wishful thinking from Ric and his fans most likely, reminds me somewhat of Red Bulls "offers" to Alonso.



#55 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 12:19

Disregarding the fact your ignoring the most likely multiple discussions, in what world would you discuss a potential multi million dollar drive at a leading F1 team in such lack of detail and flippancy let alone directly by yourself and not also with your manager? He's not asking the local bakery if they have any Saturday morning casual work available.  :lol:

 

You hate Vettel, we get it.



#56 statman

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 12:27

The max fans tripping over themselves to discredit this  :lol:

 

Don't be so insecure.

 

discrediting something that...never led to anything?

 

This story is like punching fog


Edited by statman, 03 December 2018 - 12:30.


#57 TomNokoe

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 12:37

So Vettel had the power to veto Ricciardo, but not Leclerc? Yeah right.



#58 SCUDmissile

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 12:38

Disregarding the fact your ignoring the most likely multiple discussions, in what world would you discuss a potential multi million dollar drive at a leading F1 team in such lack of detail and flippancy let alone directly by yourself and not also with your manager? He's not asking the local bakery if they have any Saturday morning casual work available. :lol:


I hope you know he wasn't meaning that that is exactly how it went down?

The poster was exaggerating for comic effect

#59 gowebber

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 13:31

You hate Vettel, we get it.

 

I did back when Turkeygate started and Multi-21 however I have warmed to him a bit more recently and at times find him quite amusing.  


Edited by gowebber, 03 December 2018 - 13:47.


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#60 MikeV1987

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 13:45

Vettel has no say or else they would have kept Kimi. Ferrari already pays a high salary for Vettel, I doubt that they want to pay for two high salaries. It also makes all that time and money spent grooming Leclerc a bit of a waste.

#61 THEWALL

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 13:58

For starters, the credibility of a medium that can't even do a good editing job, comes into question...

 

"While Ricciardo did not give a name to his suspect, he may be referring Sebastian Vettel..."



#62 Nonesuch

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 14:39

I think you know what I mean.

 

No, I think you meant decision - but I doubt Ferrari would have had to have many talks with Leclerc about his contract. Or rather, if Ferrari has its junior contracts sorted out in a proper way, they wouldn't have had to. I'll assume for now that a company like Ferrari/Fiat knows what they're doing on that front. So while I don't doubt Ferrari had conversations with Ricciardo, the person Ricciardo was competing with wasn't Vettel - it was Leclerc. Once Ferrari was convinced Leclerc was up to it, they'd bring him right over to the main team. Which they did.

 

I'm giving Ricciardo the benefit of the doubt on this; but if he is actually feeding this conspiratorial stuff it doesn't bode well for his mindset going into his Renault deal. It makes it sound as though he feels condemned to make this step, rather than something a bit more positive.



#63 AlexPrime

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 15:09

For starters, the credibility of a medium that can't even do a good editing job, comes into question...

 

"While Ricciardo did not give a name to his suspect, he may be referring Sebastian Vettel..."

Yeah, bullcrap detector activated :drunk:



#64 pitlanepalpatine

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 16:08

It worked out pretty nicely with Dan and Max at Red Bull. They didn't crash that much. :)

 

They didn't crash that much because half the time one of their cars failed during the race so they couldn't. They've been pretty much kept apart by technical circumstances through the season. You put Dan in a reliable car and his dive bombs start causing issues more than likely.



#65 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 16:11

No one vetoed it.

They went with a driver who they already had on their books and could well be a Ferrari driver for the next 10/12 years.

They went with the better option.



#66 7MGTEsup

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 17:06

Looks like the Leclerc hype train has a full head of steam, lets just hope he doesn't turn out to be another Jean Alesi who looked like a future world champion till he sat in a red car. I have seen a few second comings who looked good in the mid field then totally bombed in a top team. I would rather wait to see some results before boarding the train.



#67 Atreiu

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 18:38

It was me. I wanted Max and Alonso at Ferrari, Kimi at Red Bull and Vettel at Sauber.

 

I was too ambitious. It didnt work out.


Edited by Atreiu, 03 December 2018 - 18:38.


#68 shonguiz

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 19:33

Fed up of Riccardio speaking about how he should have been there, how he should have won that, how this, how that. Starting to sound arrogant with nothing to show for it.



#69 Ramon69

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 20:23

This smells like BS from a mile. If Vettel had such privilege, Kimi would still be his team mate in 2019.



#70 gowebber

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 20:52

Fed up of Riccardio speaking about how he should have been there, how he should have won that, how this, how that. Starting to sound arrogant with nothing to show for it.

 

Lol yeah right. He was actually just answering truthfully to a question asked of him by an Italian F1 reporter, who was the person who brought it up, its clear in the article if you actually bothered to read it properly. I don't see where he is saying anything like your alluding to, your talking nonsense.

 

He "should" have won Monaco twice not just once. Yep not much to show there apart from sustained supreme driving skill (second time under duress with a faulty car) with virtually no margin for error in the most prestigious race there is.  :stoned:


Edited by gowebber, 03 December 2018 - 21:06.


#71 Ragnar668

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 21:56

Fed up of Riccardio speaking about how he should have been there, how he should have won that, how this, how that. Starting to sound arrogant with nothing to show for it.

 

Arrogant?
You are forgetting he changed the level of overtaking



#72 boillot

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 23:22

Whoever vetoed it, it is a pity. Ricciardo - Leclerc would be a very exciting line-up.



#73 gowebber

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 23:23

Arrogant?
You are forgetting he changed the level of overtaking

Seriously do you ever stop sniping Ricciardo its getting old. Even Max said Dan taught him a thing or two about overtaking. Brundle and various other F1 experts rate him the best overtaker currently in F1 and even Horner said the same. If anyone has even the slightest valid reason for making that claim its Dan. Show me evidence by other F1 drivers of anywhere near the sheer number of passes from a long way back that Ricciardo has been doing since 2014, he brought that move to the forefront again in F1. While certainly not the perfect driver he has a decent argument to back his statement about the passing.

BTW you know full well he is one of the friendliest and most approachable drivers on the grid. Arrogant is one of the last words most would use to describe him.

Edited by gowebber, 04 December 2018 - 03:47.


#74 gowebber

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 23:31

Whoever vetoed it, it is a pity. Ricciardo - Leclerc would be a very exciting line-up.


For that to happen though Seb would have had to have left too. If Dan manages success with Renault that will be really satisfying I would think coming from so far back. Even a podium would be amazing considering how long its been for them. Excited for next year.

Edited by gowebber, 04 December 2018 - 03:49.


#75 lbennie

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 01:53

Arrogant?
You are forgetting he changed the level of overtaking

 

Down here, salt is the way of life



#76 Reddington

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 07:14

I am a fan of Dan.

 

Does he have WDC potential? I believe so.

Does he have a great reputation? For sure.

Is he highly regarded by the teams? I would imagine this to be the case.

 

The thing is, among the elite drivers, is he the one the top-3 teams would free up a seat for and do anything in their power to get him? That is the case with somebody like Lewis, teams would bend over backwards to have him in the car. But although I think there is nobody that wouldn't give credit where it's due, the top teams already have their top men in their seats and/or are grooming them from their own young driver programs. So, would Merc kick out Lewis for Dan? No. Has Ferrari kicked out Seb for Dan? No. (And they now have their own boy to succeed Seb). And now he chose to leave RBR, he basically cemented Max as their top dog himself.

 

Sure, you could say he would be great next to all these guys, but for that he is just too good and has the potential for conflict. With the top-3 teams expecting to compete for WCC/WDC, they seem to need a #1 rather than two roosters in the henhouse. I just don't see Dan settle as a number 2 driver. Anywhere!

Besides, guys like Ocon, Gio, Russell, Norris, Ticktum etc are all rattling the cages and would be fine to start as #2's, as long as it gives them the chance they want. The young guns seem to be the thing to go for nowadays anyway. Especially since the top-3 teams have their own driver programs they need to justify.

 

So now he has at least 2 years at Renault, growing older when young is the trend. I do think he will do great there. I also think Renault will have the potential to be the undisputed #4 team the coming two years, maybe more if they get their act together. I even think great drives in freak races will see him on the podium soon again. But truly beating the big three will be quite the challenge. Renault is not a top 3 team yet, and he might be out of the lime light when guys like Lewis, Seb, Max and Leclerc are going at it in the coming 2 championships. See what Renault did for Hulk? Not too much. 

 

I still hold the opinion he should have stayed. That he should have shown he is truly elite by beating Max the coming two seasons and he then would be regarded as the one to have by any team. A driver they would free up a seat for. Now he is for sure regarded as top-5 out of the entire driver pool, elite even, but simply not the highest ranked out of these 5, and thus the top teams won't free those seats up for him.

 

It still looks a bit like he threw in the towel. Even if it might not be his reasoning, many whisper Max was getting to him. But I genuinely hope he can bring Renault to the top. I think it's his only chance to compete for a WDC.


Edited by Reddington, 04 December 2018 - 07:34.


#77 A3

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 07:22

I still hold the opinion he should have stayed. That he should have shown he is truly elite by beating Max the coming two seasons and he then would be regarded as the one to have by any team. A driver they would free up a seat for. Now he is for sure regarded as top-5 out of the entire driver pool, elite even, but simply not the highest ranked out of these 5, and thus the top teams won't free those seats up for him.


Yup, agreed. The only time he'll ever drive for Ferrari now is when he accepts a Kimi role in a couple of years.

Great post overall.

#78 realracer200

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 07:41

Interesting many people consider Ricciardo the best overtaker in Formula 1. I am sure about that we will see how he does in 2019 with another car.



#79 A3

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 07:47

Interesting many people consider Ricciardo the best overtaker in Formula 1. I am sure about that we will see how he does in 2019 with another car.


Yup. The Red Bull is an amazing car on the brakes, if the Renault is not he might have a problem.

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#80 Heyli

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 07:50

Yup. The Red Bull is an amazing car on the brakes, if the Renault is not he might have a problem.

Hülkenberg in Spa seems to indicate it´s not the best...! ;)

 

(Then again, same could be said about Red Bull based on Baku :) )



#81 pitlanepalpatine

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 07:52

Interesting many people consider Ricciardo the best overtaker in Formula 1. I am sure about that we will see how he does in 2019 with another car.

 

I'd argue as an overtaker Max is better than him because Max thinks outside the box while Ricciardo relies on subterfuge but still overtakes on the expected points which is where you can get stuck behind someone like Bottas. Max on the other hand is willing to pounce anywhere and once he sorts the pressure he creates for himself and learns a little patience he'll look a lot better too.



#82 Ragnar668

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 08:02

Down here, salt is the way of life

And here I am thinking a forum is a place where people are discussing different opinions, I must be mistaken

Anyhow, RIC has one trick, calling this "changing the level of overtaking" sounds a bit ..........arrogant



#83 A3

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 08:06

(Then again, same could be said about Red Bull based on Baku :) )


I think Max's brakes were working just fine there. :drunk:

#84 gowebber

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 08:14

And here I am thinking a forum is a place where people are discussing different opinions, I must be mistaken

Anyhow, RIC has one trick, calling this "changing the level of overtaking" sounds a bit ..........arrogant

 

One trick? Please. Go back and watch some of his passing highlights on Vettel at Monza for example in 2014 with his switchback move.  The reason he does the long pass from so far back so often is because its so effective for him.  Besides you would have read numerous posts showing evidence of his varied overtaking moves in the Max vs Dan thread given how long you have been in there so not sure why your still spouting this rubbish like this other than to try and troll?


Edited by gowebber, 04 December 2018 - 08:16.


#85 gowebber

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 08:21

I am a fan of Dan.

 

Does he have WDC potential? I believe so.

Does he have a great reputation? For sure.

Is he highly regarded by the teams? I would imagine this to be the case.

 

The thing is, among the elite drivers, is he the one the top-3 teams would free up a seat for and do anything in their power to get him? That is the case with somebody like Lewis, teams would bend over backwards to have him in the car. But although I think there is nobody that wouldn't give credit where it's due, the top teams already have their top men in their seats and/or are grooming them from their own young driver programs. So, would Merc kick out Lewis for Dan? No. Has Ferrari kicked out Seb for Dan? No. (And they now have their own boy to succeed Seb). And now he chose to leave RBR, he basically cemented Max as their top dog himself.

 

Sure, you could say he would be great next to all these guys, but for that he is just too good and has the potential for conflict. With the top-3 teams expecting to compete for WCC/WDC, they seem to need a #1 rather than two roosters in the henhouse. I just don't see Dan settle as a number 2 driver. Anywhere!

Besides, guys like Ocon, Gio, Russell, Norris, Ticktum etc are all rattling the cages and would be fine to start as #2's, as long as it gives them the chance they want. The young guns seem to be the thing to go for nowadays anyway. Especially since the top-3 teams have their own driver programs they need to justify.

 

So now he has at least 2 years at Renault, growing older when young is the trend. I do think he will do great there. I also think Renault will have the potential to be the undisputed #4 team the coming two years, maybe more if they get their act together. I even think great drives in freak races will see him on the podium soon again. But truly beating the big three will be quite the challenge. Renault is not a top 3 team yet, and he might be out of the lime light when guys like Lewis, Seb, Max and Leclerc are going at it in the coming 2 championships. See what Renault did for Hulk? Not too much. 

 

I still hold the opinion he should have stayed. That he should have shown he is truly elite by beating Max the coming two seasons and he then would be regarded as the one to have by any team. A driver they would free up a seat for. Now he is for sure regarded as top-5 out of the entire driver pool, elite even, but simply not the highest ranked out of these 5, and thus the top teams won't free those seats up for him.

 

It still looks a bit like he threw in the towel. Even if it might not be his reasoning, many whisper Max was getting to him. But I genuinely hope he can bring Renault to the top. I think it's his only chance to compete for a WDC.

 

 

Alot of speculation there. I believe its more a case of timing with Ricciardo and not wanting two top drivers in teams like Merc and Ferrari. I believe he would have given Lewis a run for his money in a Merc or Ferrari same with Max. Its plain as day to see that Ricciardo would have done a much better job than Seb and Bottas in the Merc or Ferrari seat this year too. Also Dan has never had a top 2 car to show what he can do either unlike Lewis and Seb.


Edited by gowebber, 04 December 2018 - 08:27.


#86 A3

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 08:23

One trick? Please. Go back and watch some of his passing highlights on Vettel at Monza for example in 2014 with his switchback move.  The reason he does the long pass from so far back so often is because its so effective for him.  Besides you would have read numerous posts showing evidence of his varied overtaking moves in the Max vs Dan thread given how long you have been in there so not sure why your still spouting this rubbish like this other than to try and troll?


You realize you're providing "proof" with a 4 year old example, right?

When you compare Max with Dan it's clear Max has many more tricks up his sleeve.

Edited by A3, 04 December 2018 - 08:23.


#87 baddog

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 08:35

all of this so certain speculation is based on the old 'things will always be how they were yesterday'. Renault COULD turn up with a better engine and good chassis and everything will look very different. they have budget, commitment, proven drivers and are now their own real works team.

#88 Reddington

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 08:40

Alot of speculation there. I believe its more a case of timing with Ricciardo and not wanting two top drivers in teams like Merc and Ferrari. Its plain as day to see that Ricciardo would have done a much better job than Seb and Bottas in the Merc or Ferrari seat this year.

 

First of all, it's my opinion. And opinions are by definition speculative.

Secondly, even when I do agree on your Vettel/Bottas remark (and I do!), that's just as speculative.

 

Besides that, the cold hard fact is that the teams still chose other drivers to be in their seats. For whatever reason. They might have given Dan the Ferrari seat vacated by Kimi and have Charles mature further at Sauber, then have Seb replaced by Charles in 2021 to partner Dan if they really wanted him for example. But they preferred another scenario. My point is that the top guys within the absolute elite like Lewis would probably have slightly less of an issue getting the seat they want. And that's by no means meant as a dig, it's just my conclusion of how I have witnessed the silly season. It's all marginal, Dan is a great driver and no one will ever contest that, but in a sport that revolved around margins, it matters.



#89 A3

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 08:43

they have budget, commitment,


Do they? They said they don't want to spend lots of money on a full rig dyno for example. Cyril called it a crazy investment.

But of course you're right. I could win the lottery tomorrow as well.

#90 gowebber

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 08:44

You realize you're providing "proof" with a 4 year old example, right?

When you compare Max with Dan it's clear Max has many more tricks up his sleeve.

 

So because 1 example is 4 years old it means it didn't happen or its not valid? Good one. I'm sure we can dig up quite a few more examples. Tricks like Max displayed in China? Also where does it say this is continuation of the Dan vs Max thread??


Edited by gowebber, 04 December 2018 - 08:54.


#91 A3

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 08:49

Also where does it say this is continuation of Dan vs Max version 458765 thread??


:confused:

Even Max said Dan taught him a thing or two about overtaking.



#92 Nonesuch

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 09:04

He "should" have won Monaco twice not just once. Yep not much to show there apart from sustained supreme driving skill (second time under duress with a faulty car) with virtually no margin for error in the most prestigious race there is.  :stoned:

 

The margin for error at Monaco isn't a huge issue in the race. It's very easy to drive seconds off the pace without fear of losing a position, as Ricciardo aptly demonstrated this year.
 



#93 gowebber

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 09:14

The margin for error at Monaco isn't a huge issue in the race. It's very easy to drive seconds off the pace without fear of losing a position, as Ricciardo aptly demonstrated this year.


Very easy?? I doubt any F1 driver has said driving Monaco is easy even slightly off the pace. Doing that invites other cars behind you to be virtually breathing down your neck adding even more pressure. The only thing easy would be putting the car into the barriers if you lose focus and concentration for even a brief moment. Ricciardo had even more difficulty than normal with the MGU-k issue having to avoid the rear brakes catching on fire due to the largely increased front brake bias. Also lifting and coasting for cooling and changing his usual braking force to avoid locking up. I suggest you read this analysis again because it was ridiculous the amount of problems he had to negotiate that race and there was nothing easy about it.

http://www.espn.com....her-comparisons

Edited by gowebber, 04 December 2018 - 09:25.


#94 sopa

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 09:30

Whoever vetoed it, it is a pity. Ricciardo - Leclerc would be a very exciting line-up.

 

To sack and pay out Vettel with two years still running in his contract just to get Ricciardo...? Umm, nope. It's not worth it despite all Vettel's mistakes. Maybe you could argue getting Verstappen at all costs makes sense, but not Ricciardo. Better hope Vettel can iron out some mistakes and justify the cost of hiring him.



#95 Nonesuch

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 09:31

Very easy?

 

It's all relative of course. Many wouldn't last a single lap, but these are all supremely skilled drivers. The qualification of easy is in context: managing a problem is all but guaranteed to see you tumble down the order on all tracks except Monaco. In that sense, the achievement isn't so much that Ricciardo kept his lead 'under duress' but that he managed the situation and kept his wits about him. That's pretty laudable, too.



#96 DeVol

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 10:57

So are the Max fans gonna hang in the Hulk v RIC 2019 thread and throw shade? Seems that way. Can't wait.



#97 boillot

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 11:18

To sack and pay out Vettel with two years still running in his contract just to get Ricciardo...? Umm, nope. It's not worth it despite all Vettel's mistakes. Maybe you could argue getting Verstappen at all costs makes sense, but not Ricciardo. Better hope Vettel can iron out some mistakes and justify the cost of hiring him.

My reply was kind of tongue-in-cheek, but with some truth in it. But I do agree with you.



#98 Maxioos

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 11:21

So are the Max fans gonna hang in the Hulk v RIC 2019 thread and throw shade? Seems that way. Can't wait.

 

I think a lot of Max fan's have stated they are also a Ric. fan. Not me specific, i respect all drivers (highly) and have besides Max not a other one i follow special on social media for instance, but think most Max fans follow Ric. on social media also. But that they are a fan of Ric. doesn't mean they can't be critical, realistic, playing devils advocate, have a other driver higher valued on some aspects or being more fan of a other driver. 



#99 Casey

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 13:28

So are the Max fans gonna hang in the Hulk v RIC 2019 thread and throw shade? Seems that way. Can't wait.

Max vs Sainz was equally crazy .

Not even six pages debate over the whole season Sainz vs Hulk is not something to look forward to is it ?



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#100 Rinehart

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 13:34

Vettel will regret for the rest of his life that he didn't veto Leclerc. That sneaky bastard looked harmless at first sight, but starts the real attack, when it's too late to do anything about it. :p

 

That sounds like a difficult balancing act to have shown enough speed to be offered the Ferrari drive but not enough speed to have seemed capable of being good enough to bother Vettel!

 

Personally I don't really care if Dan was vetoed or not offered the Ferrari drive or simply couldn't agree. I think he's in a good place, he's joined the 4th works team as No1, whatever anyone says about Renault, they should not be underestimated, they have eventually succeeded each time they have been in F1. And if it doesn't progress in the next couple of years but Dan performs well, he'll still have a good chance of a jump to a winning car in 2021.