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#251 brucemoxon

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 18:57

It's odd but I now instinctively dislike anything in Gulf colours (colors?) because of their present ubiquity. They look bad enough on most cars upon which they are applied - Sevens especially but even worse when they are sported on the T shirts (etc ) of worshippers of Saint Steven of Los Angeles . It seems to be an ever expanding cult, most popular with overweight middle aged men and it often results in sartorial tragedy ,

I resemble that remark!

Also, submitting this. Group A 635s are very nice, but this Australian Group C car...

10565151_10154286637138676_3933488503903

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#252 gkennedy

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 20:26

Yes, the Ferrari 312P Berlinetta certainly fits the description - apart from the wheelnut.


Edited by gkennedy, 02 January 2019 - 20:29.


#253 Bikr7549

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 21:50

Last MX5 I drove was a problem getting out. Fun little car though. 

 

I was in our local race shop recently and he was doing some work on a Lotus 7 replica with a convertible top installed. I had never sat in a 7 so I tried it, with the top up. Not sure if getting in or out was the hardest part but both involved hands on the floor of the shop a and then sliding in sideways at a crazy angle followed by rotating into an upright position.  Need to do more yoga if I ever had one of those. I have a Miata and in/out is not too bad, but was much easier before the hard top was in place.



#254 kayemod

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 23:30

I was in our local race shop recently and he was doing some work on a Lotus 7 replica with a convertible top installed. I had never sat in a 7 so I tried it, with the top up. Not sure if getting in or out was the hardest part but both involved hands on the floor of the shop a and then sliding in sideways at a crazy angle followed by rotating into an upright position.  Need to do more yoga if I ever had one of those. I have a Miata and in/out is not too bad, but was much easier before the hard top was in place.

 

You're right, when I was at Lotus a colleague ran a Seven. I always had to decline lifts etc, and I could never have driven the thing, even back then before I'd broken important bits like legs, I just couldn't fit my legs into the thing. Although I'm not super tall, about 6'2" in my younger days, I was looking over the screen more than through it, and getting in and out with what passes for the "roof" or soft top, forget it, I didn't find an MX 5 much better, and what Bikr7549 describes is putting it mildly, are Caterhams any better in respect of cockpit room?

 

On John's aversion to cars painted in Gulf colours, on anything other than a period Mirage or Porsche I have to agree, they just don't look right. A guy who lives quite near me has some sort of Seven replica in McLaren orange, and that's even worse. As any fule kno, the only correct colours for a Seven are BRG with yellow wheels and nose...



#255 Bikr7549

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 03:03

I‘m 5‘ 10“ and have a bit of head room clearance in the hardtop Miata-a helmet however just touches the roof. My son is 6‘ 2“ and cant ride in it as his head hits the roof. With the soft top down the top of the windshield frame was right in his line of sight, so it was never a good car for that height. Some racing seats bolt right to the floor and give a bit more clearance but at the expense of no fore/aft adjustment.

#256 Bob Riebe

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 04:45

Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery:

 

808b1bd5e6da20bf5f5632cee21f8c45.jpg

 

Tuned to the levels possible today, that car could be down right -- thrilling -- to drive.

 

Early form:

BW%20pcar%20no18%20small1072713923.jpg


Edited by Bob Riebe, 03 January 2019 - 04:54.


#257 ChrisJson

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 09:47

 

On John's aversion to cars painted in Gulf colours, on anything other than a period Mirage or Porsche I have to agree, they just don't look right. A guy who lives quite near me has some sort of Seven replica in McLaren orange, and that's even worse. As any fule kno, the only correct colours for a Seven are BRG with yellow wheels and nose...

 

Tell the curator at Haynes Museum that! There all the british high performance cars are Ferrari red.

 

Christer



#258 Odseybod

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 10:58

I recently met a DeTomaso Pantera in Gulf colours - that wasn't quite right either.

 

On Lotus cockpit accessibility (or otherwise), it's sort of reassuring that the Elise carries on the tradition, especially with the bit of material called a roof in place. 

 

Back on topic, I'll add a second vote for the Maserati 151/4, after the original tried to set fire to my trouser legs in the Le Mans paddock (hadn't noticed the exhaust exited underneath the doors - stupid boy!).

 

Maser.jpg

 

I suppose a lot of this comes down to such associations. So for road cars, I'll lose any remaining cred by admitting I'm still a fan of the Facel-Vega Facel II, after seeing Rob Walker's car ticking gently as it cooled in the car park of the Bell Hotel, Thetford, where we were also staying for a Snetterton meeting. A proper grand tourer - and after all, S. Moss enjoyed his HK500.

 

 



#259 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 11:11

Originally posted by gkennedy
Yes, the Ferrari 312P Berlinetta certainly fits the description - apart from the wheelnut.


Are you sure that's not some anti-theft device?

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#260 Tim Murray

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 11:40

They do appear to be the same nuts used in period:

19-chris-amon-ferrari-312p-berlinetta-re

They do rather spoil the red car/gold wheels look, but the car still remains one of my all-time favourites.

#261 2F-001

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 12:14

I've always thought that was one of the most attractive Ferraris (more so than the P4 or 512)- although it is so rarely mentioned or discussed.

I never got to see it race, but did get to see one very close up in the Bardinon collection at Mas du Clos, and it really was lovely.

 

(The open-top variant was quite an elegant thing too in some ways - although more "functionally attractive" than simply beautiful.)


Edited by 2F-001, 03 January 2019 - 12:15.


#262 kayemod

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 14:32


Back on topic, I'll add a second vote for the Maserati 151/4, after the original tried to set fire to my trouser legs in the Le Mans paddock (hadn't noticed the exhaust exited underneath the doors - stupid boy!).

 

 

 

I suppose a lot of this comes down to such associations. So for road cars, I'll lose any remaining cred by admitting I'm still a fan of the Facel-Vega Facel II, after seeing Rob Walker's car ticking gently as it cooled in the car park of the Bell Hotel, Thetford, where we were also staying for a Snetterton meeting. A proper grand tourer - and after all, S. Moss enjoyed his HK500.

 

That car has long been one of my favourites as well, especially after I found out that Rob Walker and Sir Stirling also owned them. In his biography, Rob tells us that his wife didn't want to drive his Facel, saying it was too fast for her. Rob fixed that by having the speedometer recalibrated, so she never knew quite how fast she was going, and apparently the unsuspecting Mrs Walker was happy with that. Wouldn't work today with the current obsession with revenue-grabbing speed cameras though.

 

Facel-Vega.jpg

 

The car is a perfect amalgam of assertive arrogance and sheer classic style, a creation of real automotive beauty without a doubt.



#263 sabrejet

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 16:24

I adore the Facel Vega and all its iterations! Good choice. HK500 or Excellence would be welcome in my dream garage any time. Not sure many would say it's gorgeous but I would.



#264 Bob Riebe

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 18:09

That car has long been one of my favourites 

 

Facel-Vega.jpg

 

The car is a perfect amalgam of assertive arrogance and sheer classic style, a creation of real automotive beauty without a doubt.

Nice looking '56 Studebaker! :smoking:



#265 john aston

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 18:32

Nice nose , but I think gradually loses the plot towards the rear ?  It shares the E-Type's Achilles heel of wheels which don't sit easily within the arches , but at least the .Jag's dash is wood and not painted metal. And remember Albert Camus' words - 'there can be nothing more absurd than to die in a car accident ' - which he did, of course - in an HK500 ..

 

But what do I know  - I love the jolie laide Jensen CV8 ..



#266 Bob Riebe

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 21:49

I remember now when this was in the Automotive News; it and some others DOA were prospective competitors in the then exciting GT1 category but sadly it came to naught.

This thread is making me remember vehicles ten or more years forgotten.

It also make me again regret missing the 2003 Detroit Auto Show which to me was the last one really worth seeing.

 

Cunningham C-7

 

cunningham_c_7_concept_100003800_m.jpg

 

Chevrolet SS concept - 2003

Chevrolet-SS_Concept-2003-1600-03.jpg

 

Instead of this more fwd crap wagons were built , although the Holden SS/Caprice was available to at least give people a hint of what Chevy once was.


Edited by Bob Riebe, 08 January 2019 - 21:53.


#267 Andrew Stevens

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 13:16

All very subjective, but I have to agree with the first post, having lived with a 1750GTV for over 30 years... and co-driven with Nick in that very car on a few rallies!  A lot of fun...  Have to concour with the 8C 2900B  Touring bodied Spider - I think the black one is the best, and also put in a bid for the Zagato and Touring bodied shorter chassis 8C 2300s as well.  And how about the first series Giulietta SZs - as cute as a button.  I find many cars too 'overstyled' nowadays, like the designers don't know when to stop. Compare that to the simplicity and 'tension' in the body of a 250 SWB, Elan or even an XK120 or Series 1 E-Type (or Type 35/51/59 Bugatti). 

 

And in open wheelers, how about the original Lotus 25?  Watching that at the Revival versus the Ferrari 1512 (with blue wheels - very important!) was poetry in motion squared!

 

Andrew



#268 Andrew Stevens

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 14:47

Forgot to mention the Jaguar XJ13 too - sounded fantastic as well when it started up inside the Wakefield (from memory?) Garage in Adelaide at one of the Grand Prix weekends there. Sound is a part of the beauty of a car too I feel...



#269 john aston

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 07:45

Great noise but- so sorry - a ghastly looking car. Dated, too big and like a 1950s engineer's dream of a sports racing car of the future. The GT 40 showed what it should have looked like.

 

I know some adore the XJ13 , as they do the absurdly styled XJ220 - I must be immune to the Jaguar allure    



#270 kayemod

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 10:28

Great noise but- so sorry - a ghastly looking car. Dated, too big and like a 1950s engineer's dream of a sports racing car of the future. The GT 40 showed what it should have looked like.

 

I know some adore the XJ13 , as they do the absurdly styled XJ220 - I must be immune to the Jaguar allure    

 

Have to agree, I share your immunity as far as most of their road & track designs are concerned, especially the more recent ones, how can anyone enthuse over the F Type with that rear end on the roofed version? For me, they haven't produced a real looker since the long-nosed D Type.



#271 sabrejet

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 11:08

The question is about the aesthetics, not whether a car was a failure or outdated. The XJ13 fits the remit of being 'timelessly gorgeous', whereas by comparison the GT40 is a brick.


Edited by sabrejet, 10 January 2019 - 11:08.


#272 john aston

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 14:14

Indeed - that's why I said I thought it looked ghastly.. Mistakenly, it now appears, I thought it might be an idea to comment more widely.

 

I recall the XJ 13 being driven around Silverstone in - 73? - before the GP and feeling like a character in a Bateman cartoon as everybody swooned and gasped.' The man who dared to think the XJ13 had the right numerical designation' ...   



#273 Macca

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 08:46

Coming late to the party, as usual, but I don't think anyone else nominated the one-off Aston Martin DP212 that raced at Le Mans in 1962.

 

aston-dp212-montage.jpg

 

The last part of the picture shows it at the 1963 Le Mans test, after the nose and tail had been modified; that is more or less the form it is in nowadays.

 

Going back to Jaguars, I agree that the XK-F is a munter, looking like a Maserati at the front and a Chrysler Crossfire at the back; but I liked the XK8 and XK-R, maybe because they looked a bit Aston-ish.

 

Paul M



#274 sabrejet

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 13:05

Maybe we should start a thread on the ugliest cars? If so I'd like to nominate the carbuncle (pun intended) that is...the McLaren Senna! Undoubtedly the ugliest car on sale, and up there with the SsangYong Rodius in all-time ugliness. "Sculpted by the air (or "wind" as Top Gear presenters would say) - as one motoring journo mistakenly wrote. Beaten to death by it more like! 



#275 Bob Riebe

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 19:06

Maybe we should start a thread on the ugliest cars? If so I'd like to nominate the carbuncle (pun intended) that is...the McLaren Senna! Undoubtedly the ugliest car on sale, and up there with the SsangYong Rodius in all-time ugliness. "Sculpted by the air (or "wind" as Top Gear presenters would say) - as one motoring journo mistakenly wrote. Beaten to death by it more like! 

Start one ----  but from what I have seen of many, far more than just a few, the front of so many new cars today look like some who had his lower jaw shot  off.

At that they range from  same crap, same pile to being designed by some one of bad drugs.



#276 john aston

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 07:42

Actually I think we have a far more interesting diversity on the roads  now than when I was a kid in the 60s. Jewels like hardly ever seen Ferraris, Porsches and Maseratis apart (and nobody ever saw a Lambo ) the only consolation was seeing the odd Aston, Lotus, Ro80  and Alfa amongst the grey porridge horrors of Viva HAs , VX4.90s , most Cortinas , skinny wheeled horrors like the Marina and nightmares such as any big Ford . The 60s saw nearly all of my favourite cars appear - but the chances of seeing most of them were minuscule .

 

There are some great shapes out there now - a bit lardy in the case of big SUVs (which I loathe ) but most BMW saloons and coupes look muscly, as do Mercs and every Alfa , even the SUV looks stunning . I find the shape of most Fords very easy on the eye  and even weirdos like the Juke have a certain jolie laid appeal . More than some horror of an Allegro or Minx ,Humber Hawk or Chrysler Valiant anyway ....



#277 Glengavel

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 08:58

Actually I think we have a far more interesting diversity on the roads  now than when I was a kid in the 60s. Jewels like hardly ever seen Ferraris, Porsches and Maseratis apart (and nobody ever saw a Lambo ) the only consolation was seeing the odd Aston, Lotus, Ro80  and Alfa amongst the grey porridge horrors of Viva HAs , VX4.90s , most Cortinas , skinny wheeled horrors like the Marina and nightmares such as any big Ford . The 60s saw nearly all of my favourite cars appear - but the chances of seeing most of them were minuscule .
 
There are some great shapes out there now - a bit lardy in the case of big SUVs (which I loathe ) but most BMW saloons and coupes look muscly, as do Mercs and every Alfa , even the SUV looks stunning . I find the shape of most Fords very easy on the eye  and even weirdos like the Juke have a certain jolie laid appeal . More than some horror of an Allegro or Minx ,Humber Hawk or Chrysler Valiant anyway ....


I've got a soft spot for the Humber Hawk because it's one of the first toy cars I remember having. Rather that than the half-chewed toffee that is the Juke! And don't get me started on Alfa-Romeo SUVs, it's like putting Gina Lollobrigida on steroids.

According to the Hawk's Wiki article (yes, I know...) the Chrysler Valiant was mooted as replacement for it in the UK. Don't know how well that went, but there are a few hundred Hawks left in the UK and only eleven Valiants, according to https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/

#278 john aston

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 09:05

Dad had a Hawk - it was ghastly. Big old car, bench seat , column shift dragged along by a wheezy 70 odd bhp 2.2 inline 4. He changed it for a Rover 3 Litre - which was lovely in every way but one. The steering was seriously , seriously heavy, and whilst I got used to that the kickback was appalling .  



#279 Eric Dunsdon

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 09:47

As a lifetime Alfa enthusiast I  am slowly coming to terms with the current S.U.V (I've even seen one on the road locally!) but I don't know how I'll cope should Alfa of all people go electric. Happily at my age it is a choice that I will never have to make!.



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#280 john winfield

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 10:48

Nonsense Eric, you're here for ages yet. You'll have to decide between that battery-powered Giulietta or the new Alfasud Ruggine, fuelled by its own decomposing bodywork.



#281 sabrejet

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 13:27

OK not quite in Hawk territory, but I had three Super Snipes (all Series III) and I loved them all. Daftly large and heavy and turning a corner was like bring the Ark Royal into wind. And a 3-litre straight six engine that for some reason was physically twice the size of most other 3-litre sixes. And they rusted. And I nearly pinned myself to the floor when I took the front bumper off one. And they had the awful 3-speed column change (with o/d on 2nd and 3rd).

 

But I loved the looks, and the refinement of the ride in a straight line, and the quiet cabin, and the fold-down picnic tables. And most of all the look on pump attendants' faces when they tried to work out where the petrol went in.



#282 Eric Dunsdon

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 13:48

Looks like I'll be hanging on to my Diesel powered  Giulietta for now or perhaps dust off my GIOS and De Rosa road bikes! and give my aged legs a wake up call!.



#283 john aston

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 17:46

OK not quite in Hawk territory, but I had three Super Snipes (all Series III) and I loved them all. Daftly large and heavy and turning a corner was like bring the Ark Royal into wind. And a 3-litre straight six engine that for some reason was physically twice the size of most other 3-litre sixes. And they rusted. And I nearly pinned myself to the floor when I took the front bumper off one. And they had the awful 3-speed column change (with o/d on 2nd and 3rd).

 

But I loved the looks, and the refinement of the ride in a straight line, and the quiet cabin, and the fold-down picnic tables. And most of all the look on pump attendants' faces when they tried to work out where the petrol went in.

 Ah ! I'd forgotten - the o/s faux brakelight cover? 



#284 sabrejet

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 18:29

 Ah ! I'd forgotten - the o/s faux brakelight cover? 

 

That's the one!



#285 charles r

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 14:49

maxresdefault.jpg



#286 charles r

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 14:17

Alfa~Romeo~Tipo~33~(2).jpg

 

 

image15.jpg

 

The car's not bad either.


Edited by charles r, 19 February 2019 - 14:18.


#287 E1pix

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 15:39

What car? ;-)

#288 john aston

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 16:54

What ? There's something else as well as the Alfa ? Hadn't noticed at first...

 

Ah now I see her ,, and in 2019 she possibly is more ..umm.patinated than the Alfa I'd guess ? 



#289 kayemod

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 17:12

What ? There's something else as well as the Alfa ? Hadn't noticed at first...

 

 

 

Not more Alfas! Half the cars on this thread are sodding Alfas, and not a single Vauxhall. I can't stand bloody Alfas, wouldn't have an Alfa as a gift! Damned Alfas...



#290 E1pix

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 17:18

^^^ Clearly an account hack ^^^

;-)

#291 charles r

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 18:36

What ? There's something else as well as the Alfa ? Hadn't noticed at first...

 

Ah now I see her ,, and in 2019 she possibly is more ..umm.patinated than the Alfa I'd guess ? 

 

Don't speak about my Mum like that...



#292 Bob Riebe

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 18:56

32e20f9d8d3ca6df340d37aa758f25f9.jpg

Drogo 250 GT 2+2

 

Meade Thomassima II

thomassimaiinsflargerwv8.1999.jpg

And another

8f2a00ac8a8515dce01d3e49cf191a2a-700.jpg


Edited by Bob Riebe, 19 February 2019 - 18:59.


#293 sabrejet

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 19:35

 

Drogo 250 GT 2+2

 

Meade Thomassima II

 

And another

8f2a00ac8a8515dce01d3e49cf191a2a-700.jpg

 

Isn't that hideous? Eye of the beholder I guess.



#294 KBY191

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 20:36

Beauty in the eye of the beholder? I will put my hand up as a fan of the Chevy Cheetah.

 

chevrolet-cheetah-1-of-23-produced-up-fo


Edited by KBY191, 19 February 2019 - 20:59.


#295 Bob Riebe

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 23:57

OK not quite in Hawk territory, but I had three Super Snipes (all Series III) and I loved them all. Daftly large and heavy and turning a corner was like bring the Ark Royal into wind. And a 3-litre straight six engine that for some reason was physically twice the size of most other 3-litre sixes. And they rusted. And I nearly pinned myself to the floor when I took the front bumper off one. And they had the awful 3-speed column change (with o/d on 2nd and 3rd).

 

But I loved the looks, and the refinement of the ride in a straight line, and the quiet cabin, and the fold-down picnic tables. And most of all the look on pump attendants' faces when they tried to work out where the petrol went in.

Well yes it seems beauty is in the eye of the beholder if sanforized Checker cabs are good looking. :stoned:

 

1920px-Humber_Super_Snipe_Series_III_at_



#296 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 February 2019 - 02:03

Originally posted by Glengavel
.....the Chrysler Valiant was mooted as replacement for it in the UK. Don't know how well that went, but there are a few hundred Hawks left in the UK and only eleven Valiants, according to https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/


That was the Australian version of the Valiant, and that number is 14...

There were Chrysler Valiants and Valiant Regals, they are shown separately on that site with six of one and eight of the other surviving.

#297 Dipster

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Posted 20 February 2019 - 07:31

Re Humber Super Snipes....

 

"But I loved the looks, and the refinement of the ride in a straight line, and the quiet cabin, and the fold-down picnic tables. And most of all the look on pump attendants' faces when they tried to work out where the petrol went in."

 

Behind one of the reflectors as I recall......

 

Did they actually ever make the Chrysler V8 version I heard talk of at the time?



#298 BRG

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Posted 20 February 2019 - 17:12


Did they actually ever make the Chrysler V8 version I heard talk of at the time?

It never went into production but there were apparently some prototypes built.  I recall reading somewhere that they scared themselves silly testing at MIRA, when the car ran round the banked corners right at the very top, rubbing against the armco barrier and knocking the trim and door handles off.  I suspect they may have concluded it was all a bit rich for the typical Humber buyer. 



#299 Tom Glowacki

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 04:12

Is the Alfa Romeo quota filled yet?

 

1964_AlfaRomeo_CanguroConcept1.jpg



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#300 charles r

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 09:52

1933-alfa-romeo-8c-2300-vittorio-jano-de