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Achingly, timelessly gorgeous


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#251 brucemoxon

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 18:57

It's odd but I now instinctively dislike anything in Gulf colours (colors?) because of their present ubiquity. They look bad enough on most cars upon which they are applied - Sevens especially but even worse when they are sported on the T shirts (etc ) of worshippers of Saint Steven of Los Angeles . It seems to be an ever expanding cult, most popular with overweight middle aged men and it often results in sartorial tragedy ,

I resemble that remark!

Also, submitting this. Group A 635s are very nice, but this Australian Group C car...

10565151_10154286637138676_3933488503903

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#252 gkennedy

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 20:26

Yes, the Ferrari 312P Berlinetta certainly fits the description - apart from the wheelnut.


Edited by gkennedy, 02 January 2019 - 20:29.


#253 Bikr7549

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 21:50

Last MX5 I drove was a problem getting out. Fun little car though. 

 

I was in our local race shop recently and he was doing some work on a Lotus 7 replica with a convertible top installed. I had never sat in a 7 so I tried it, with the top up. Not sure if getting in or out was the hardest part but both involved hands on the floor of the shop a and then sliding in sideways at a crazy angle followed by rotating into an upright position.  Need to do more yoga if I ever had one of those. I have a Miata and in/out is not too bad, but was much easier before the hard top was in place.



#254 kayemod

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 23:30

I was in our local race shop recently and he was doing some work on a Lotus 7 replica with a convertible top installed. I had never sat in a 7 so I tried it, with the top up. Not sure if getting in or out was the hardest part but both involved hands on the floor of the shop a and then sliding in sideways at a crazy angle followed by rotating into an upright position.  Need to do more yoga if I ever had one of those. I have a Miata and in/out is not too bad, but was much easier before the hard top was in place.

 

You're right, when I was at Lotus a colleague ran a Seven. I always had to decline lifts etc, and I could never have driven the thing, even back then before I'd broken important bits like legs, I just couldn't fit my legs into the thing. Although I'm not super tall, about 6'2" in my younger days, I was looking over the screen more than through it, and getting in and out with what passes for the "roof" or soft top, forget it, I didn't find an MX 5 much better, and what Bikr7549 describes is putting it mildly, are Caterhams any better in respect of cockpit room?

 

On John's aversion to cars painted in Gulf colours, on anything other than a period Mirage or Porsche I have to agree, they just don't look right. A guy who lives quite near me has some sort of Seven replica in McLaren orange, and that's even worse. As any fule kno, the only correct colours for a Seven are BRG with yellow wheels and nose...



#255 Bikr7549

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 03:03

I‘m 5‘ 10“ and have a bit of head room clearance in the hardtop Miata-a helmet however just touches the roof. My son is 6‘ 2“ and cant ride in it as his head hits the roof. With the soft top down the top of the windshield frame was right in his line of sight, so it was never a good car for that height. Some racing seats bolt right to the floor and give a bit more clearance but at the expense of no fore/aft adjustment.

#256 Bob Riebe

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 04:45

Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery:

 

808b1bd5e6da20bf5f5632cee21f8c45.jpg

 

Tuned to the levels possible today, that car could be down right -- thrilling -- to drive.

 

Early form:

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Edited by Bob Riebe, 03 January 2019 - 04:54.


#257 ChrisJson

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 09:47

 

On John's aversion to cars painted in Gulf colours, on anything other than a period Mirage or Porsche I have to agree, they just don't look right. A guy who lives quite near me has some sort of Seven replica in McLaren orange, and that's even worse. As any fule kno, the only correct colours for a Seven are BRG with yellow wheels and nose...

 

Tell the curator at Haynes Museum that! There all the british high performance cars are Ferrari red.

 

Christer



#258 Odseybod

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 10:58

I recently met a DeTomaso Pantera in Gulf colours - that wasn't quite right either.

 

On Lotus cockpit accessibility (or otherwise), it's sort of reassuring that the Elise carries on the tradition, especially with the bit of material called a roof in place. 

 

Back on topic, I'll add a second vote for the Maserati 151/4, after the original tried to set fire to my trouser legs in the Le Mans paddock (hadn't noticed the exhaust exited underneath the doors - stupid boy!).

 

Maser.jpg

 

I suppose a lot of this comes down to such associations. So for road cars, I'll lose any remaining cred by admitting I'm still a fan of the Facel-Vega Facel II, after seeing Rob Walker's car ticking gently as it cooled in the car park of the Bell Hotel, Thetford, where we were also staying for a Snetterton meeting. A proper grand tourer - and after all, S. Moss enjoyed his HK500.

 

 



#259 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 11:11

Originally posted by gkennedy
Yes, the Ferrari 312P Berlinetta certainly fits the description - apart from the wheelnut.


Are you sure that's not some anti-theft device?

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#260 Tim Murray

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 11:40

They do appear to be the same nuts used in period:

19-chris-amon-ferrari-312p-berlinetta-re

They do rather spoil the red car/gold wheels look, but the car still remains one of my all-time favourites.

#261 2F-001

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 12:14

I've always thought that was one of the most attractive Ferraris (more so than the P4 or 512)- although it is so rarely mentioned or discussed.

I never got to see it race, but did get to see one very close up in the Bardinon collection at Mas du Clos, and it really was lovely.

 

(The open-top variant was quite an elegant thing too in some ways - although more "functionally attractive" than simply beautiful.)


Edited by 2F-001, 03 January 2019 - 12:15.


#262 kayemod

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 14:32


Back on topic, I'll add a second vote for the Maserati 151/4, after the original tried to set fire to my trouser legs in the Le Mans paddock (hadn't noticed the exhaust exited underneath the doors - stupid boy!).

 

 

 

I suppose a lot of this comes down to such associations. So for road cars, I'll lose any remaining cred by admitting I'm still a fan of the Facel-Vega Facel II, after seeing Rob Walker's car ticking gently as it cooled in the car park of the Bell Hotel, Thetford, where we were also staying for a Snetterton meeting. A proper grand tourer - and after all, S. Moss enjoyed his HK500.

 

That car has long been one of my favourites as well, especially after I found out that Rob Walker and Sir Stirling also owned them. In his biography, Rob tells us that his wife didn't want to drive his Facel, saying it was too fast for her. Rob fixed that by having the speedometer recalibrated, so she never knew quite how fast she was going, and apparently the unsuspecting Mrs Walker was happy with that. Wouldn't work today with the current obsession with revenue-grabbing speed cameras though.

 

Facel-Vega.jpg

 

The car is a perfect amalgam of assertive arrogance and sheer classic style, a creation of real automotive beauty without a doubt.



#263 sabrejet

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 16:24

I adore the Facel Vega and all its iterations! Good choice. HK500 or Excellence would be welcome in my dream garage any time. Not sure many would say it's gorgeous but I would.



#264 Bob Riebe

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 18:09

That car has long been one of my favourites 

 

Facel-Vega.jpg

 

The car is a perfect amalgam of assertive arrogance and sheer classic style, a creation of real automotive beauty without a doubt.

Nice looking '56 Studebaker! :smoking:



#265 john aston

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 18:32

Nice nose , but I think gradually loses the plot towards the rear ?  It shares the E-Type's Achilles heel of wheels which don't sit easily within the arches , but at least the .Jag's dash is wood and not painted metal. And remember Albert Camus' words - 'there can be nothing more absurd than to die in a car accident ' - which he did, of course - in an HK500 ..

 

But what do I know  - I love the jolie laide Jensen CV8 ..



#266 Bob Riebe

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 21:49

I remember now when this was in the Automotive News; it and some others DOA were prospective competitors in the then exciting GT1 category but sadly it came to naught.

This thread is making me remember vehicles ten or more years forgotten.

It also make me again regret missing the 2003 Detroit Auto Show which to me was the last one really worth seeing.

 

Cunningham C-7

 

cunningham_c_7_concept_100003800_m.jpg

 

Chevrolet SS concept - 2003

Chevrolet-SS_Concept-2003-1600-03.jpg

 

Instead of this more fwd crap wagons were built , although the Holden SS/Caprice was available to at least give people a hint of what Chevy once was.


Edited by Bob Riebe, 08 January 2019 - 21:53.


#267 Andrew Stevens

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 13:16

All very subjective, but I have to agree with the first post, having lived with a 1750GTV for over 30 years... and co-driven with Nick in that very car on a few rallies!  A lot of fun...  Have to concour with the 8C 2900B  Touring bodied Spider - I think the black one is the best, and also put in a bid for the Zagato and Touring bodied shorter chassis 8C 2300s as well.  And how about the first series Giulietta SZs - as cute as a button.  I find many cars too 'overstyled' nowadays, like the designers don't know when to stop. Compare that to the simplicity and 'tension' in the body of a 250 SWB, Elan or even an XK120 or Series 1 E-Type (or Type 35/51/59 Bugatti). 

 

And in open wheelers, how about the original Lotus 25?  Watching that at the Revival versus the Ferrari 1512 (with blue wheels - very important!) was poetry in motion squared!

 

Andrew



#268 Andrew Stevens

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 14:47

Forgot to mention the Jaguar XJ13 too - sounded fantastic as well when it started up inside the Wakefield (from memory?) Garage in Adelaide at one of the Grand Prix weekends there. Sound is a part of the beauty of a car too I feel...



#269 john aston

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 07:45

Great noise but- so sorry - a ghastly looking car. Dated, too big and like a 1950s engineer's dream of a sports racing car of the future. The GT 40 showed what it should have looked like.

 

I know some adore the XJ13 , as they do the absurdly styled XJ220 - I must be immune to the Jaguar allure    



#270 kayemod

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 10:28

Great noise but- so sorry - a ghastly looking car. Dated, too big and like a 1950s engineer's dream of a sports racing car of the future. The GT 40 showed what it should have looked like.

 

I know some adore the XJ13 , as they do the absurdly styled XJ220 - I must be immune to the Jaguar allure    

 

Have to agree, I share your immunity as far as most of their road & track designs are concerned, especially the more recent ones, how can anyone enthuse over the F Type with that rear end on the roofed version? For me, they haven't produced a real looker since the long-nosed D Type.



#271 sabrejet

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 11:08

The question is about the aesthetics, not whether a car was a failure or outdated. The XJ13 fits the remit of being 'timelessly gorgeous', whereas by comparison the GT40 is a brick.


Edited by sabrejet, 10 January 2019 - 11:08.


#272 john aston

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 14:14

Indeed - that's why I said I thought it looked ghastly.. Mistakenly, it now appears, I thought it might be an idea to comment more widely.

 

I recall the XJ 13 being driven around Silverstone in - 73? - before the GP and feeling like a character in a Bateman cartoon as everybody swooned and gasped.' The man who dared to think the XJ13 had the right numerical designation' ...