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What is 'Rich Energy'?


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#801 RSRally

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 20:26

So did Rich actually register the logo before Whyte?

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#802 Maxioos

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 20:32

So did Rich actually register the logo before Whyte?

 

That would be surprising and could change things for sure. When was the company registered/started? I thought that was in 2016. 



#803 loki

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 20:37

This Dallara/Ferrari-made car go well with this Austrian-made British energy drink that uses a logo (allegedly) made by Whyte bikes.

Are those shirts Jack&Jones or are they Chinese replicas?

 

And they're still kicking the crap out of the two remaining Brit teams on the grid...



#804 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 20:47

https://twitter.com/...5126794240?s=21

Romain with ‘the can’

#805 loki

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 20:49

Interesting to see where this all ends up for Haas. I mean so far, so good.

 

In the end the only thing that could happen is finishing the season as Rich Energy Haas F1 and having a gold and black car with no Rich Energy reference.  So some embarrassment.  Gene Haas isn't naive.  He's built a billion dollar machine tool business and a powerhouse championship Nascar team.  He wouldn't have done this without getting something up front.  There is obviously enough there to have them get this far.  In terms of financial impact it's not as Haas needs the money to compete.  I'm sure he'd rather spend sponsor money but he's got plenty of money to fund it.  At this point most will come from FOM revenue.  They've gotten the highest on the grid at this point with the least spent.  IOW the whole point of their model.  If it comes to needing a vote to change the team name or livery that will be good entertainment.  Between fighting the Racing Point money, the listed parts model they use and the floor protest issue they're likely not going to have many friends in the paddock.



#806 GiorgioF1

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 21:03

https://twitter.com/...5126794240?s=21

Romain with ‘the can’

 

it's probably the last thing he needs to drink before the races though.



#807 danmills

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 21:11

I wonder if they brand the car without the horns, only the words for now, until the lawsuit passes?

#808 Risil

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 21:13

They're clearly antlers, not horns!



#809 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 21:19

Sorry if this has been mentioned before in the thread... but on the bottom of the can it says ‘est mmx’... are they claiming they’ve been around since 2010?! Extremely slow uptake if so...

#810 RSRally

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 21:48

Their Instagram account launched in 2016 and they have been using the logo since then. Whyte bikes launched in 1999 though, seems a bit remice of them to have not trademarked their logo until 2018?

#811 Maxioos

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 22:03

In the end the only thing that could happen is finishing the season as Rich Energy Haas F1 and having a gold and black car with no Rich Energy reference.  So some embarrassment.  Gene Haas isn't naive.  He's built a billion dollar machine tool business and a powerhouse championship Nascar team.  He wouldn't have done this without getting something up front.  There is obviously enough there to have them get this far.  In terms of financial impact it's not as Haas needs the money to compete.  I'm sure he'd rather spend sponsor money but he's got plenty of money to fund it.  At this point most will come from FOM revenue.  They've gotten the highest on the grid at this point with the least spent.  IOW the whole point of their model.  If it comes to needing a vote to change the team name or livery that will be good entertainment.  Between fighting the Racing Point money, the listed parts model they use and the floor protest issue they're likely not going to have many friends in the paddock.

 

I agree, but think they have the money to be on the car for the year. It's just the amateurisme of the brand RE that is stunning too me. They should have a dynamic website online and promoting/updating their distribution and growth. Both websites are just 3 hours template filling site's. If like some suggest it's their strategy because of this forum, it's just bad marketing strategy. Positive press releases and articles are far more effective. In this period they should produce massive amount of press releases, like when reached amount of countries, amount of individual selling points, f1 sponsorship pr related plans/deals/fans rambling (just to be mentioned in related business and f1 publications from time to time, Record amount of single can sells a month, etc. etc. 

 

I see no indication they are distributing WW atm. and that would be a massive lose for all pr investments. What's purpose of promoting a product hardly anyone can buy? It still can be in process, but it should be such massive operation, they could make massive PR with it if they where using that in the right way (like on a youtube channel follow can's from production too delivery WW.), find the special cans alway's can get hype, etc.. In my city there should at least 10 supermarkets, 20 gas stations, 10 sport facilities, 5 high schools, 30 restaurants/eating counters, and i most likely forget some places that should be supplied. And that's just one city in one small country. It's not like they didn't have the preparation time. I just don't see it. A half pallet or couple for sake of logic arrived for the US market is brought as article, while it should be containers and containers full and (full) automatic taken in in the global distribution networks that are already performing. 

 

You need to sell a lot of cans to cover the promotion/investment costs before earnings starts and too me, it could take RE at least 3 times as long as needed if they continue in current vorm/level.

 

It not uniform having and displaying of brand outing is also very sloppy and amateuristisch.

 

But, They did get the money (too get this far) and did get the Haas deal, that are 2 successes they have on their conto. But could be so much more imo. 

 

Now they have a season (or more) to impress the F1 paddock and fans, but by the looks of it until now, i don't expect anything spectacular or creative, just displaying their name and product. I hope they proof me wrong on all parts, from distribution until PR/creativity. 



#812 Maxioos

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 22:05

I wonder if they brand the car without the horns, only the words for now, until the lawsuit passes?

 

I fully expect including the logo. I would be very surprised if logo wouldn't be very prominent on the nose. 



#813 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 22:25

In the end the only thing that could happen is finishing the season as Rich Energy Haas F1 and having a gold and black car with no Rich Energy reference. So some embarrassment. Gene Haas isn't naive. He's built a billion dollar machine tool business and a powerhouse championship Nascar team. He wouldn't have done this without getting something up front. There is obviously enough there to have them get this far. In terms of financial impact it's not as Haas needs the money to compete. I'm sure he'd rather spend sponsor money but he's got plenty of money to fund it. At this point most will come from FOM revenue. They've gotten the highest on the grid at this point with the least spent. IOW the whole point of their model. If it comes to needing a vote to change the team name or livery that will be good entertainment. Between fighting the Racing Point money, the listed parts model they use and the floor protest issue they're likely not going to have many friends in the paddock.

I tend to agree with you. I'm more interested in where it ends up for Haas in regards to this Rich Energy tie up. I know ultimately Haas will be fine, no matter what unfolds with the title sponsor.

#814 RSRally

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 22:26

I see no indication they are distributing WW atm. and that would be a massive lose for all pr investments. What's purpose of promoting a product hardly anyone can buy?


I'm a small retailer in the UK and i use three main wholesalers, none of whom list Rich Energy. Maybe I need to find a premium luxury wholesaler.

#815 Maxioos

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 22:44

Their Instagram account launched in 2016 and they have been using the logo since then. Whyte bikes launched in 1999 though, seems a bit remice of them to have not trademarked their logo until 2018?

 

Like said, it's no specific need or duty to do and still have exactly the same rights as when you would have done. It makes just proces (defending brand image) more difficult (but when not infringed, much cheaper) and that could be the case here. When they use the logo internationally for 17 years, they have build up a right outside of any "registration". It seems that with a registration you can harder and more impress the copiers to change their logo, but to enforce it, you must take exactly same step as when you didn't had the logo/brand/product registered, and that is by taking it to a court. 

 

I hope he still can give link to source of that registration info, very curious how this will end up.

 

If they don't print on cloth because it would infringe a other logo registration, you already admitting your's is (almost)same.

 

For me counts like said in post 651, now, global the logo is linked and recognized and used as Whyte Bikes logo. But after being one or more seasons on the nose of a f1 car, the logo almost for sure will be linked with Rich Energy. As far i understand and read the cases/articles, that on it's own should give Whyte a large case. That "brand protection" for Whyte Bikes, or potential lose of that in future goes beyond/above trade mark class or country/region. I personal think that's the key question in coming court case. And that would be one of my main defense/case making point as Whyte side of argument and seems for me greatest risk for RE if court agrees with that assumption (does any one here? Would logo be linked with Whyte or RE after season F1?)

 

No one who has a idea what the case against him in person may be about and what possible consequences could be?



#816 Maxioos

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 22:47

I'm a small retailer in the UK and i use three main wholesalers, none of whom list Rich Energy. Maybe I need to find a premium luxury wholesaler.

 

And you would order a tray if you could, right? I would. 24 cans isn't any risk at all.



#817 midgrid

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 23:17

They're clearly antlers, not horns!


As Juan Pablo Montoya would say, "oh deer"!

#818 danmills

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 23:53

I ordered a tray of 24. They do exist to the public, he who dares Rodders.

#819 RA2

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 02:27

ATB Sales: https://trademarks.i...k=UK00002154125

 

Jon Whyte: Expired

 

https://trademarks.i...1/UK00002154125

 

 

Whyte : Active

https://trademarks.i...1/UK00002375360

 

 

ATB Logo

https://trademarks.i...1/UK00003263605

 

https://trademarks.i...1/UK00003287045

 

 

 

William Storey - https://trademarks.i...=William storey

 

William Storey Logo

https://trademarks.i...419456&domain=1

 

Rich DOO- https://www.tmdn.org...oodsAndServices

Crotian company 

 

Z6gaECL.jpg

 

 

Previously it was  https://www.upcindex...17#product-info

maxresdefault.jpg


Edited by RA2, 07 February 2019 - 05:39.


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#820 loki

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 03:48

I tend to agree with you. I'm more interested in where it ends up for Haas in regards to this Rich Energy tie up. I know ultimately Haas will be fine, no matter what unfolds with the title sponsor.

 

Rich Energy is so rag tag it's a laughing stock now let alone what happens throughout the season.  I'd bet at this point the other teams in the paddock are chuckling behind closed doors.  I wonder how long it will be before they start commenting and chuckling in public.  I consider myself a Haas fan but the presentation and apparent lack of professionalism of the sponsor is mind blowing.  It's like Rich Energy is akin to those "mockumentaries" full of sarcasm and parody mocking the real thing but this appears for these guys it is the real thing.  It's theater of the absurd.  Calling it Pythonesque would be an insult.  To the Pythons... 



#821 Mat13

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 04:47

They're clearly antlers, not horns!


I’m so glad there’s someone else who is annoyed by this.

#822 ixnay

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 07:12

ATB Logo
https://trademarks.i...1/UK00003263605

https://trademarks.i...1/UK00003287045


William Storey Logo
https://trademarks.i...419456&domain=1

So UK trademark on file shows "Rich Energy" trademarked their logo nearly 2 years before Whyte?

I can see that when they were building the main RE website they had the logo in image form with intention in July 2015 based on the template set up structure and upload dates (their uploaded image packages are so cringe like a kid with a boner wanted to start a modelling company and fake it to start).

What is the earliest known use of Whyte's logo?

Edited by ixnay, 07 February 2019 - 07:17.


#823 Maxioos

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 07:19

 

Thanks for sharing. This makes it all more complex.



#824 Maxioos

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 07:26

So UK trademark on file shows "Rich Energy" trademarked their logo nearly 2 years before Whyte?

I can see that when they were building the main RE website they had the logo in image form with intention in July 2015 based on the template set up structure and upload dates (their uploaded image packages are so cringe like a kid with a boner wanted to start a modelling company and fake it to start).

What is the earliest known use of Whyte's logo?

 

Whyte used it at least in 2014, so before start RE. https://web.archive....s://whyte.bike/ and i see pictures of bikes from 2012 with the logo, so seems to be in use from start.



#825 ixnay

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 08:10

Whyte used it at least in 2014, so before start RE. https://web.archive....s://whyte.bike/ and i see pictures of bikes from 2012 with the logo, so seems to be in use from start.

Thanks!

#826 Rinehart

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 10:00

Even if they had changed the logo, they would still have to go to court, because it doesn't seem they have the money to settle with Whyte outside of the courtroom. That would be the only way around it, to change the logo, make a financial settlement with Whyte, and then make a public statement explaining transparently the situation... but as they've taken their current path, they'll be in court soon and will likely be in bigger trouble (I guess without the money to settle, they were screwed either way).

If they changed the logo I'm not convinced the court case would even happen, or if it did, that there would be any penalty. They are a relatively new brand who have not caused Whyte Bikes any tangible commercial loss. 



#827 ixnay

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 10:04

If they changed the logo I'm not convinced the court case would even happen, or if it did, that there would be any penalty. They are a relatively new brand who have not caused Whyte Bikes any tangible commercial loss.


I'd argue that, currently at least, they've given Whyte far more exposure.
However, the longer they go on using the antlers the less Whyte will be in the picture based on the reach of the F1 platform.

#828 Rinehart

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 10:40

Antlers logo on the stage branding and car cover at the launch. 

Obviously the car is going to look like a JPS Lotus.



#829 thegforcemaybewithyou

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 10:46

Suit up for the launch!

 

DywOgNVXgAUGCsL.jpg

https://twitter.com/...264958878609408



#830 Maxioos

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 10:49

I'd argue that, currently at least, they've given Whyte far more exposure.
However, the longer they go on using the antlers the less Whyte will be in the picture based on the reach of the F1 platform.

 

Not even close. We (most of us) are just not their "targeted consumers market"

 

https://www.youtube....kes commercial  There are films with Whyte bikes in it with 200k+ viewers. They don't need 17 pages on a autosport forum as PR. Also google gives nice indication it's a professionalism they portray like you would expect and wishes by a company as RE. https://www.google.n...iw=1680&bih=977

 

They also exist 20 years in contrary to RE's 4 years.



#831 Peat

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 10:50

What the actual.... LOL

A dress code for an event hosted by a bloke who looks like he rumages in bins for his dinner.


Edited by Peat, 07 February 2019 - 10:50.


#832 P123

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 10:56

What the actual.... LOL

A dress code for an event hosted by a bloke who looks like he rumages in bins for his dinner.


That's Premium Bins full of luxury goods.

#833 thegforcemaybewithyou

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:01

Those hands on the rail seem pretty nervous...



#834 danmills

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:20

Sports jackets allowed.

 

The bottom one makes it sound like no midriffs paragraph entirely applies to men only LOL.



#835 ixnay

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:24

Limited edition scarf from William's shaved Head and beared.

#836 lukestanton91

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:27

Suit up for the launch!

 

DywOgNVXgAUGCsL.jpg

https://twitter.com/...264958878609408

Sports Jacket? What, like, with 'Castrol GTX' written on the back? 



#837 GiorgioF1

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:30

Doubting Haas F1 backer Rich Energy is like 'denying moon landing

 

Addressing scepticism about the company's credibility and comments about the rare sightings of its products, Rich Energy CEO William Storey told Autosport that he welcomed scrutiny and "the detractors are obviously not on the same planet as you and me".

"I think a lot of people have put two and two together and got five," he said.

"I've heard these nonsense rumours, whatever, and it's just completely risible. I just ignore it.

"Ultimately we've just produced 90 million cans.

"As far as I'm concerned anyone who says it doesn't exist it's like saying man never walked on the moon, or Elvis is still alive.

"It's just fantasy."

 

Well there you have it guys :lol:

 

https://www.autospor...g-moon-landings



#838 nosecone

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:37

https://twitter.com/...5126794240?s=21

Romain with ‘the can’

It must feel good to hold such a rare piece in your hands

Edited by nosecone, 07 February 2019 - 11:37.


#839 johnwilliamdavies

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:38

 

 

"Ultimately we've just produced 90 million cans."

 

Not 80 million, or 85 million, but 90 million cans... Shouldn't be too difficult to spot them now.



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#840 Peat

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:39

90 million pictures of THE can, perhaps.  



#841 midgrid

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:42

I'm looking forward to Storey removing his mask and beard, and revealing Bernie Ecclestone underneath.



#842 Peat

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:44

 

 

"Actions speak louder than words," said Storey. "At the end of the day when the tide goes out we see who is swimming naked, don't we?

*shudder*



#843 Afterburner

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:45

Doubting Haas F1 backer Rich Energy is like 'denying moon landing



Addressing scepticism about the company's credibility and comments about the rare sightings of its products, Rich Energy CEO William Storey told Autosport that he welcomed scrutiny and "the detractors are obviously not on the same planet as you and me".
"I think a lot of people have put two and two together and got five," he said.
"I've heard these nonsense rumours, whatever, and it's just completely risible. I just ignore it.
"Ultimately we've just produced 90 million cans.
"As far as I'm concerned anyone who says it doesn't exist it's like saying man never walked on the moon, or Elvis is still alive.
"It's just fantasy."

Well there you have it guys :lol:

https://www.autospor...g-moon-landings

Guy sure knows how to tell a Storey.

#844 midgrid

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:50

*shudder*

 

OK, my mistake, it's Briatore underneath!



#845 Jazza

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:50

Questionable examples. At this moment there are more people claiming to have seen Elvis then there are sightings of a can of Rich Energy...

#846 Maxioos

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:51

Doubting Haas F1 backer Rich Energy is like 'denying moon landing

 

Addressing scepticism about the company's credibility and comments about the rare sightings of its products, Rich Energy CEO William Storey told Autosport that he welcomed scrutiny and "the detractors are obviously not on the same planet as you and me".

"I think a lot of people have put two and two together and got five," he said.

"I've heard these nonsense rumours, whatever, and it's just completely risible. I just ignore it.

"Ultimately we've just produced 90 million cans.

"As far as I'm concerned anyone who says it doesn't exist it's like saying man never walked on the moon, or Elvis is still alive.

"It's just fantasy."

 

Well there you have it guys :lol:

 

https://www.autospor...g-moon-landings

 

"Ultimately we've just produced 90 million cans." When making such claim, it's okay (or even duty) for a reporter/journalist to ask for some proof for that statement 

"who says it doesn't exist" Hardly anyone claims that, just it's not by far as large as they portray.

 

(And, my opinion is, we never went to the moon, so that's not a argument in his favor.)



#847 7MGTEsup

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:59

Z6gaECL.jpg

 

Since when has 27.8g of sugar been <10% of your daily intake of sugar? Some quick reading says 50g a day should be what you aim for when consuming 2000 calories a day so at best that's 56% of your daily intake.



#848 Mohican

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 12:04

A modern drinks canning line should easily make 60,000 cans/hour, so calculated conservatively 90 million units is 7 months production.
If only on one single line, and calculated on a 40-hour week.

Not so impressive; and almost certainly done as a “private label”, meaning production capacity is rented from generic drinks producer in Austria.

Red Bull, by way of comparison, sold 6.8 billion cans in 2018 (according to their website). Meaning approx 76 times RE’s stated volume.

#849 Jazza

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 12:06

Z6gaECL.jpg

Since when has 27.8g of sugar been <10% of your daily intake of sugar? Some quick reading says 50g a day should be what you aim for when consuming 2000 calories a day so at best that's 56% of your daily intake.


That would be 10% of your daily energy intake coming from the sugar alone. I don’t think it’s claiming that that much sugar is 10% of your daily recommended sugar consumption.

#850 TheGoldenStoffel

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 12:10

Doubting Haas F1 backer Rich Energy is like 'denying moon landing

 

Addressing scepticism about the company's credibility and comments about the rare sightings of its products, Rich Energy CEO William Storey told Autosport that he welcomed scrutiny and "the detractors are obviously not on the same planet as you and me".

"I think a lot of people have put two and two together and got five," he said.

"I've heard these nonsense rumours, whatever, and it's just completely risible. I just ignore it.

"Ultimately we've just produced 90 million cans.

"As far as I'm concerned anyone who says it doesn't exist it's like saying man never walked on the moon, or Elvis is still alive.

"It's just fantasy."

 

Well there you have it guys :lol:

 

https://www.autospor...g-moon-landings

 

Wish Autosport would've made it clear in the headline that this was a quote from Storey, now it looks like Autosport are the ones sticking their middle finger up to all the people on here who have/had genuine question marks about Rich Energy while it's actually beardman.


Edited by TheGoldenStoffel, 07 February 2019 - 12:11.