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What is 'Rich Energy'?


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#901 Tsarwash

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 02:16

Over here both Monster and Rockstar sell much more than that as well as Red Bull.  There are some others but the market in the US is basically Red Bull, Monster and Rockstar.  Drinks from Monster now outsell Red Bull in the US but that's spread over a few brands other than Monster.  We'll see if Storey's 90 mil number is real when we see the 2019 filings.  It could be they do have 90 mil cans in the chain and are waiting for the big rollout.  We'll see soon enough but it's not available in the largest single energy drink market in the world.  And even if it were 90 million cans isn't that much in the grand scheme in the US market let alone worldwide.

Even though 90 mil cans is small fry compared to the really big guys, it would still be incredibly impressive for a company with one employee/founder who seemed to have started last year.  :drunk:

I'm not sure how relevant this is but I know somebody who bought a canning line about five years ago, which I am sure cost him in excess of a million pounds. I know that their total output last year exceeded 2.5 million litres for the first time, as they have to no pay more duty on it. They have at least thirty employees and this very successful company has taken fifteen years or so to build up to this point. 

Even though Rich is contract 'brewed' and canned, to suggest that they have now placed an order or signed a contract for 45 million litres after just one year of operating seems utterly ludicrous. 



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#902 Afterburner

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 02:40

how could this thread reach 18 pages?  :rotfl: 

Pretty much the same way that Rich Energy got to 90 million cans.

Edited by Afterburner, 08 February 2019 - 02:41.


#903 RA2

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 03:19

90 million cans is probably what Rich sold since 2011 



#904 Counterbalance

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 04:17

Not irrelevant.
Rich Energy's registered address is literally in a rent-a-desk building. Yet the company claims to produce and sell tens of millions of cans of drinks around the world, and to be able to spend tens of millions of pounds on motor racing.
Can you think of any substantial manufacturing business that effectively has no fixed abode? If you had a solid business, a real business with real responsibilities and real stakeholders, would you want your important documents (tax, regulatory, contracts, invoices, cheques) posted to a low-security hostel comprising multiple unrelated occupants who rent desk space by the week?
There is nothing wrong with starting out in those circumstances, but you would not stay in them if you could afford something better - more private, more comfortable, more secure.
If Gene Haas were in London and wanted to have a meeting with his principal sponsors, where would they hold it - at the local Starbucks?

None of which you mention are a company's statutory documents, which are kept at the registered office. I'm talking about such things as incorporation certificates m&a's, register of directors, etc.

What you are referring to is a trading address, which can be, if you wish, at a totally separate location. Or you could keep everything you mentioned in a safe at your house and hold meetings in a function suite at a hotel if that floated your boat.

Rich Energy's location of their registered office didn't seem to bother Haas too much at all, because any accounts team worth their money would know that such a location has little, if any bearing on a company's ability to trade successfully.

I have actual, real life experience in incorporating Ltd companies, LLP's and LLC's, so have a pretty good understanding of company law which goes way beyond a wiki page. I'm not trying to be patronising, I'm just stating that there is more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak. And that's why I find company law a very interesting topic almost 30 years after being first introduced to it.

Edited by Counterbalance, 08 February 2019 - 04:23.


#905 Alburaq

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 05:23

Yeah obviously Gene Haas inst bothered at all by the shadiness of his new sponsor, by the amateurish and ultra pretentious marketing habits of RE, or by the suspicions around their logo etc. The sponsoring money is the only thing that matters. 



#906 RSRally

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 05:44

If Gene Haas were in London and wanted to have a meeting with his principal sponsors, where would they hold it - at the local Starbucks?


The Bingham Hotel of course.

Edited by RSRally, 08 February 2019 - 05:44.


#907 RA2

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 06:11

Rich energy UK is a distribution company

 

The company which owns it is elsewhere 

 

Can the money for Haas come directly from a investor?  



#908 Counterbalance

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 06:31

Rich energy UK is a distribution company

The company which owns it is elsewhere

Can the money for Haas come directly from a investor?


Good question. I honestly have no idea.

#909 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 06:58

90 million cans is probably what Rich sold since 2011


Bear in mind that typically these drinks are flogged to customers for £1 per can. So they are being sold to retailers at less than that so that the retailer can make their own bit of profit on top.

Red bull sell in excess of 6 billion cans per year worldwide.

90 million cans is nothing really isnt it.

I wonder what sort of deal they have on the license for manufacturing the stuff.

It’s the sort of company you’d see ripped to shreds on Dragons Den on a Sunday night, they are essentially the distributor for someone else’s goods. And that someone else could sell the drink themselves and cut ‘rich’ out. (Seems they already do, and the drink is essentially ‘happy shopper’ energy drink in a fancy looking tin!)

Edited by FirstnameLastname, 08 February 2019 - 07:00.


#910 krapmeister

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 07:57

Even though 90 mil cans is small fry compared to the really big guys, it would still be incredibly impressive for a company with one employee/founder who seemed to have started last year. :drunk:
I'm not sure how relevant this is but I know somebody who bought a canning line about five years ago, which I am sure cost him in excess of a million pounds. I know that their total output last year exceeded 2.5 million litres for the first time, as they have to no pay more duty on it. They have at least thirty employees and this very successful company has taken fifteen years or so to build up to this point.
Even though Rich is contract 'brewed' and canned, to suggest that they have now placed an order or signed a contract for 45 million litres after just one year of operating seems utterly ludicrous.


Wouldn't think each can was 500ml, aren't they 250ml or something?

#911 Ellios

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 08:27

Where can I buy some cans of this drink ? I'm in UK



#912 phrank

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 08:35

Where can I buy some cans of this drink ? I'm in UK

If you have to ask you probably are not rich



#913 Peat

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 08:41

A very wealthy man who lives in a small flat on the outskirts of Putney?  Is that an expensive lifestyle?  If he is privately wealthy, he soon won't be* if he gives great wadges of cash to racing teams to promote a company and a product that barely exists and seems to have little potential to grow..

 

It all remains rather peculiar.

 

* Cue comment about how to become a millionaire in F1 - start as a billionaire

Almost certain it's not his money. 

Back on page 3, there is a load of stuff about the Croatian/American 'Rich Energy Drink' from 5 years ago. 

 

There's someone behind all this with a load of money. Perhaps so much that they need a very quick method of disposal. However, it can't be too nefarious because you'd think they'd be more discreet. Or are they just hiding in plain sight?
 



#914 WilliamsF1Fan

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 08:41

Finding Rich Energy is rather like that old expression... If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it!   :p



#915 RSRally

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 08:49

Bear in mind that typically these drinks are flogged to customers for £1 per can. So they are being sold to retailers at less than that so that the retailer can make their own bit of profit on top.

Red bull sell in excess of 6 billion cans per year worldwide.

90 million cans is nothing really isnt it.

I wonder what sort of deal they have on the license for manufacturing the stuff.

It’s the sort of company you’d see ripped to shreds on Dragons Den on a Sunday night, they are essentially the distributor for someone else’s goods. And that someone else could sell the drink themselves and cut ‘rich’ out. (Seems they already do, and the drink is essentially ‘happy shopper’ energy drink in a fancy looking tin!)


They could, but Rich own the brand which is the important bit. As you say, the contents is highly likely to be the same or very similar to other brands produced by that company in Austria.

I mean when it comes down to it, Red Bull is basically the same product as 'Happy Shopper Energy Drink' in a sexy can.

#916 HP

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 09:16

For good or bad it's on HAAS new livery.

 

https://www.haasf1team.com/



#917 Steve99

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 10:35

Where can I buy some cans of this drink ? I'm in UK

 

Amazon, 24 cans for 20 quid, in stock Feb 16th



#918 Danyy

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 10:39

how could this thread reach 18 pages? :rotfl:


Storey “We’ve just produced 19 pages of premium content on Autosport”

Edited by Danyy, 08 February 2019 - 10:41.


#919 Owen

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 10:42

how could this thread reach 18 pages?  :rotfl: 

When you create a product and sign a sponsorship deal with so many unanswered questions, expect questions.



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#920 Rinehart

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 11:22

My thoughts on the subject;

The Beard came up with an idea for a "premium" competitor to the energy drinks market, which is forecast to grow massively in the next decade. That's actually a pretty damn good idea. 

He doesn't have the financial resources required to do this himself, so he's taken high risk investment from a certain flavour of entrepreneurs. This is all offshore somewhere so we can't see it.

The whole thing is marketing gone mad, the strategy is to build the brand first and then meet growing demand with supply. Given this, it's not unreasonable to see such iffy beginnings, can all be tidied up later.

So without the finances to scale up first, he's having to build the aeroplane in the air so to speak, and promote a drink with outrageous claims of splendor - nothing wrong with that so long as nobody is ripped off.

Claims of "luxury sugar cane" and stuff is not unreasonable either, it's not his fault that the world is full of pretentious mugs who will buy anything that they think makes them look cool. 

He's made a start on market penetration over the recent years with little deals in boxing promotion and lifestyle. Probably only produced 50k cans so far, easy to do in a 3rd party factory and lock up storage.

Now the investment in sponsorship of Hass is going to massively accelerate awareness and demand (he hopes). Its plausible he's now in the process of producing 90m cans to meet a forthcoming rise in demand.

That claim could be based on an order, rather than physical stock. Perhaps investors and/or the factory are in some risk/reward deal.

And the sponsorship of Haas is quite possibly also risk/reward. Perhaps Gene has taken equity rather than cash or some cash and some return on projected sales...

This all makes sense to me if a lot of people have been tempted by a growth strategy and the global energy drinks market certainly offers that. I think Gene Haas knows exactly what he's got into.

I think this is all real even if incredibly fragile ecosystem of investments against projected growth, which if transpires can be backfilled with building proper business infrastructure.

People like to see nice tidy business stories or they're not comfortable, forgetting that some of the worlds largest companies have very much less than perfect formative years. It's often what you have to do. 

All I know is if your going to globally promote a product, you need to have the product people want or interest will wane very very quickly...

In summary, I think this above board but is a big game of speculation, not even the Beard knows what's going to happen next.



#921 Jazza

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 11:39

There’s also the possibility that Haas himself has no idea about this.

The man runs a small empire. He hires teams of guys to worry about the research and to figure out the answers to all the questions before the matter even gets on his desk. After three years of being mostly self funded, perhaps a marketing guy has been feeling the pressure to hurry up and find a title sponsor before they get shown the door. The deal could therefore be as shady as anything but Haas is simply being told that all things look good so sign off on the deal here. A man like Haas can not double check everything his employees do for him. That’s why he employees these people in the first place.

We only have to look at cases like Lotus and Quamtum to see how desperation can cause people who should know better to try anything. Insane situations outside F1 like Bernie Madoff shows how even the largest and most professional financial firms and experts can be fooled if someone wants to sell a lie.

If Haas is being told by his staff that a large Energy drink provider from the UK wants to sponsor his car and all the numbers look good, then he possibly knows less about Rich Energy than half the members on this forum.

#922 danmills

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 12:19

I still think their best move, by miles, would have been to change the logo before they go and plaster it all over an F1 car to be seen by hundreds of millions of eyeballs worldwide. Their stag logo has no value and no brand equity, hardly anyone has seen it or heard of it. Change it now because it will matter not a jot to their future success if they do it now, but it will matter a lot if it becomes familiar and then they change it. Removing it would seem to admit guilt and anticipate loss... 

 

I reckon we should have a new logo competition on here, because if my theory holds water, one of them will be used!!! 

 

REPOSTER2.jpg


Edited by danmills, 08 February 2019 - 12:19.


#923 Rinehart

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 12:26

:rotfl:

 

I am no good at design but I would like to see the strapline "no bull / gives you things". 



#924 pdac

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 12:46

90 million cans is probably what Rich sold since 2011 

 

More like 90, I would imagine.



#925 Ragnar668

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 12:47

My thoughts on the subject;

The Beard came up with an idea for a "premium" competitor to the energy drinks market, which is forecast to grow massively in the next decade. That's actually a pretty damn good idea. 

He doesn't have the financial resources required to do this himself, so he's taken high risk investment from a certain flavour of entrepreneurs. This is all offshore somewhere so we can't see it.

The whole thing is marketing gone mad, the strategy is to build the brand first and then meet growing demand with supply. Given this, it's not unreasonable to see such iffy beginnings, can all be tidied up later.

So without the finances to scale up first, he's having to build the aeroplane in the air so to speak, and promote a drink with outrageous claims of splendor - nothing wrong with that so long as nobody is ripped off.

Claims of "luxury sugar cane" and stuff is not unreasonable either, it's not his fault that the world is full of pretentious mugs who will buy anything that they think makes them look cool. 

He's made a start on market penetration over the recent years with little deals in boxing promotion and lifestyle. Probably only produced 50k cans so far, easy to do in a 3rd party factory and lock up storage.

Now the investment in sponsorship of Hass is going to massively accelerate awareness and demand (he hopes). Its plausible he's now in the process of producing 90m cans to meet a forthcoming rise in demand.

That claim could be based on an order, rather than physical stock. Perhaps investors and/or the factory are in some risk/reward deal.

And the sponsorship of Haas is quite possibly also risk/reward. Perhaps Gene has taken equity rather than cash or some cash and some return on projected sales...

This all makes sense to me if a lot of people have been tempted by a growth strategy and the global energy drinks market certainly offers that. I think Gene Haas knows exactly what he's got into.

I think this is all real even if incredibly fragile ecosystem of investments against projected growth, which if transpires can be backfilled with building proper business infrastructure.

People like to see nice tidy business stories or they're not comfortable, forgetting that some of the worlds largest companies have very much less than perfect formative years. It's often what you have to do. 

All I know is if your going to globally promote a product, you need to have the product people want or interest will wane very very quickly...

In summary, I think this above board but is a big game of speculation, not even the Beard knows what's going to happen next.

Sounds like Fyre festival all over again

https://www.business...ional=true&r=US



#926 Risil

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 12:49

Let's not get into comparisons with the actual, proven fraud committed by the Fyre Festival's organizer.



#927 danmills

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 12:54

Something doesn't add up on those figures. The image they released recently of the many pallets was a boast photo. Someone worked out how many cans it was on here and it wasn't a lot.

 

Assuming they have even PRODUCED 90m cans since the start, it just doesn't make sense. For a UK brand to have next to no mass presence even 9m cans produced (not sold) seems too high.

 

I mean, they sell at premium places as their signature market. How many do they sell on evenings and events? I just can't imagine the likes of Clooney or Julia Roberts rocking up to a bar in London or Monaco and necking an energy drink, can you?

Those volumes would be for youngsters necking them like there's no tomorrow. Have they sold them at festivals? Because the boxing events they seem to show them sponsoring are quite small events, even if everyone at every event drank 10 cans each for the last 10 years.

Maths. Hmmmm.



#928 pdac

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 12:55

My thoughts on the subject;

The Beard came up with an idea for a "premium" competitor to the energy drinks market, which is forecast to grow massively in the next decade. That's actually a pretty damn good idea. 

He doesn't have the financial resources required to do this himself, so he's taken high risk investment from a certain flavour of entrepreneurs. This is all offshore somewhere so we can't see it.

The whole thing is marketing gone mad, the strategy is to build the brand first and then meet growing demand with supply. Given this, it's not unreasonable to see such iffy beginnings, can all be tidied up later.

So without the finances to scale up first, he's having to build the aeroplane in the air so to speak, and promote a drink with outrageous claims of splendor - nothing wrong with that so long as nobody is ripped off.

Claims of "luxury sugar cane" and stuff is not unreasonable either, it's not his fault that the world is full of pretentious mugs who will buy anything that they think makes them look cool. 

He's made a start on market penetration over the recent years with little deals in boxing promotion and lifestyle. Probably only produced 50k cans so far, easy to do in a 3rd party factory and lock up storage.

Now the investment in sponsorship of Hass is going to massively accelerate awareness and demand (he hopes). Its plausible he's now in the process of producing 90m cans to meet a forthcoming rise in demand.

That claim could be based on an order, rather than physical stock. Perhaps investors and/or the factory are in some risk/reward deal.

And the sponsorship of Haas is quite possibly also risk/reward. Perhaps Gene has taken equity rather than cash or some cash and some return on projected sales...

This all makes sense to me if a lot of people have been tempted by a growth strategy and the global energy drinks market certainly offers that. I think Gene Haas knows exactly what he's got into.

I think this is all real even if incredibly fragile ecosystem of investments against projected growth, which if transpires can be backfilled with building proper business infrastructure.

People like to see nice tidy business stories or they're not comfortable, forgetting that some of the worlds largest companies have very much less than perfect formative years. It's often what you have to do. 

All I know is if your going to globally promote a product, you need to have the product people want or interest will wane very very quickly...

In summary, I think this above board but is a big game of speculation, not even the Beard knows what's going to happen next.

 

This my thought. He knows a few people who have stumped up enough money to pay Haas at least some of the sponsorship. The idea is to get the name known. I doubt he has yet manufactured the 90 million cans. He probably has a smaller amount in stock and, perhaps, things in place for a much larger supply should sales boom. I think he is hoping that the F1 exposure will create interest enough to sell what he has and bring in enough to pay for more product.

 

If he sells 90 million cans, then his backers will get their money back and he will have established himself. I guess it sounds like a reasonable alternative strategy to spending millions on more traditional advertising methods (which would bring in the demand much quicker but would, therefore, require a lot of stock to be available from the outset and would also require retail coverage that I don't think he has).



#929 RSRally

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 12:59

:rotfl:

I am no good at design but I would like to see the strapline "no bull / gives you things".


I believe Rich already use "Rich Energy gives you horns"

#930 Andy35

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 13:25

I was saying back in 2009 that the first team to make me read a 19 page thread for their new F1 car would be Haas

 

They really do take the biscuit.

 

1200px-Rich_tea.jpg

 

Andy



#931 Rinehart

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 13:34

This my thought. He knows a few people who have stumped up enough money to pay Haas at least some of the sponsorship. The idea is to get the name known. I doubt he has yet manufactured the 90 million cans. He probably has a smaller amount in stock and, perhaps, things in place for a much larger supply should sales boom. I think he is hoping that the F1 exposure will create interest enough to sell what he has and bring in enough to pay for more product.

 

If he sells 90 million cans, then his backers will get their money back and he will have established himself. I guess it sounds like a reasonable alternative strategy to spending millions on more traditional advertising methods (which would bring in the demand much quicker but would, therefore, require a lot of stock to be available from the outset and would also require retail coverage that I don't think he has).

Yes agree. Only, investors are going to want a lot more than their money back. They will want a huge return. As far as I can tell, the only thing the Beard has to trade is equity, worth $0 now (so equity in an idea) but just could be worth a shed load in the future if its starts selling. So my theory is that he's giving away big chunks of equity for investment. If he only retains 10% of the company and it starts selling in big volumes and eats into just 10% of RB's market share, he's be rich, just of 10% ownership. 



#932 RSRally

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 13:40

Almost certain it's not his money.

Back on page 3, there is a load of stuff about the Croatian/American 'Rich Energy Drink' from 5 years ago.

There's someone behind all this with a load of money. Perhaps so much that they need a very quick method of disposal. However, it can't be too nefarious because you'd think they'd be more discreet. Or are they just hiding in plain sight?


I've seen this theory mentioned a few times and I don't get it, obviously because I have such a pure and innocent mind. If you had a load of money why would you want to get rid of it and why invest it in a sponsorship deal?

I know that would be seen as a legitimate advertising expense, but at the end of the day you've still spent the money..

#933 danmills

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 13:45

#givesyouhorns and solves the stag copyright issue.

 

 

I believe Rich already use "Rich Energy gives you horns"

 

REPOSTER.jpg


Edited by danmills, 08 February 2019 - 13:46.


#934 Rinehart

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 13:47

I've seen this theory mentioned a few times and I don't get it, obviously because I have such a pure and innocent mind. If you had a load of money why would you want to get rid of it and why invest it in a sponsorship deal?

I know that would be seen as a legitimate advertising expense, but at the end of the day you've still spent the money..

Vijay Mallya would fit the profile...

If only the administrators had approved the sale of Force India to Rich Energy... secretly owned by the owner of Force India!!! 

Sorry, I'm getting a bit too creative now... ;)



#935 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 13:48

Yes agree. Only, investors are going to want a lot more than their money back. They will want a huge return. As far as I can tell, the only thing the Beard has to trade is equity, worth $0 now (so equity in an idea) but just could be worth a shed load in the future if its starts selling. So my theory is that he's giving away big chunks of equity for investment. If he only retains 10% of the company and it starts selling in big volumes and eats into just 10% of RB's market share, he's be rich, just of 10% ownership. 

Do you know any investors?

As an investor myself, I'm ecstatic with 6%. Also, as an investor, I know that over time I'll never achieve that. Probably my best investment ever is my own home, which I bought at a bank auction when a bunch of other investors went bust in 2008

We're not a bunch of greedy mofos, sorry to pop your bubble.



#936 Rinehart

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 14:04

Do you know any investors?

As an investor myself, I'm ecstatic with 6%. Also, as an investor, I know that over time I'll never achieve that. Probably my best investment ever is my own home, which I bought at a bank auction when a bunch of other investors went bust in 2008

We're not a bunch of greedy mofos, sorry to pop your bubble.

You're not a venture investor then, 6% is preposterously low. We're not talking about bank loans here. You think you can raise $50m of capital for a start up on a 6% return? You should be in acquisition not sales buddy... And no, I do not think it is greed at all. I am all for every business striving to be as profitable as they can be. 



#937 Alburaq

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 14:07

Storey “We’ve just produced 1900 pages of premium content on Autosport”



#938 OvDrone

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 14:16

how could this thread reach 18 pages? :rotfl:


How could it not ?

What is Rich Energy ?
What is energy ?
What is rich ?
What even is ?

Love this thread. What a mysterious company.

#939 pdac

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 14:17

You're not a venture investor then, 6% is preposterously low. We're not talking about bank loans here. You think you can raise $50m of capital for a start up on a 6% return? You should be in acquisition not sales buddy... And no, I do not think it is greed at all. I am all for every business striving to be as profitable as they can be. 

 

I think there is a difference between investing your own money vs investing the money of others.



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#940 New Britain

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 14:17

That's more common than you would think at least in the US.  We used a registered agent service and had over a million in revenue a year, a working inventory of a few million dollars in equipment and a 25,000 sq ft facility with several trucks.  It was rare we gave out the address.  Most of our clients never visited the facility.  The registered service operations provide a service where they do forward and/or hold mail, provide virtual phone and receptionist services.  There are at least a dozen here in Vegas.  Even companies as big as Google use a registered agent service, Commercial Service Corporation.  We know Storey has a small operation (as in it appears to be just him...).  Using outsourced registered agents or virtual office services has no bearing on what's being discussed here.  This address isn't the address of the  business.  It's the address of service.  Under the law those are two different things.

 

EDIT:  Check out these guys, the gold standard of flex office space.  It's something like that were you would hold meetings, go to work if you needed, etc.  They work with ma and pa businesses all the way to providing space for Fortune 100 companies.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeWork

I think there is a difference between having a company's physical correspondence posted to a proper, trusted designee/agent, such as one's lawyers or accountants, located away from the substantial premises of the company itself, and having no premises at all apart from a rented desk in a building full of desks rented by other unknown, untrusted parties. Google might use a registered agent service, but there is no doubt that Google is a very substantial company with numerous identifiable premises filled with thousands of real people.

If there were other evidence - which could be in many forms - to back up the claim that the Rich Energy outfit is as substantial as its purported bid for Force India and its publicised sponsorship of Haas normally would imply, one would be happy to take them at their word. Alternatively, if Rich Energy were admittedly a small-time operation just getting its feet off the group and with little to show, one would acknowledge that and ignore them.

The problem is that there seems to be such a large disparity between what they claim to be and what, upon investigation, they appear to be. Where is the beef?



#941 pdac

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 14:18

How could it not ?

What is Rich Energy ?
What is energy ?
What is rich ?
What even is ?

Love this thread. What a mysterious company.

 

What is what?



#942 OvDrone

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 14:20

What is what?


What?

#943 Afterburner

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 14:33

#givesyouhorns and solves the stag copyright issue.



REPOSTER.jpg

That would honestly be an amazing logo for them to adopt, purely for the sheer level of avant-garde WTFness that is so befitting of this whole saga. Please let them use this if they ask for it. Bloody beautiful. :rotfl:

#944 New Britain

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 14:41

None of which you mention are a company's statutory documents, which are kept at the registered office. I'm talking about such things as incorporation certificates m&a's, register of directors, etc.

What you are referring to is a trading address, which can be, if you wish, at a totally separate location. Or you could keep everything you mentioned in a safe at your house and hold meetings in a function suite at a hotel if that floated your boat.

Rich Energy's location of their registered office didn't seem to bother Haas too much at all, because any accounts team worth their money would know that such a location has little, if any bearing on a company's ability to trade successfully.

I have actual, real life experience in incorporating Ltd companies, LLP's and LLC's, so have a pretty good understanding of company law which goes way beyond a wiki page. I'm not trying to be patronising, I'm just stating that there is more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak. And that's why I find company law a very interesting topic almost 30 years after being first introduced to it.

Fine, I too have real world experience with LLCs, Ltd Cos, corporations, partnerships, the whole deal. The issue of the location of the registered office per se was not my point. Rather my point was that the registered address in a rent-a-desk building appears to be the only tangible thing about a company that claims to have 10s of millions to spend on motor racing and claims to have sold 90 million cans of some mystery liquid.

 

"Rich Energy Limited" - Most recent Companies House filing 05 September, 2018. Total share capital: £100.

 

The launch of a Formula One car with a new title sponsor and eye-catching new livery is a pretty big deal, yes? So why is there nothing anywhere from Rich Energy to leverage that announcement: no advertising, no product in stores, no contact details? A rather strange way to sell mass-market consumer goods, wouldn't you say?



#945 Stephane

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 14:43

Were there cans at the livery unveilling ?



#946 GiorgioF1

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 15:00

Were there cans at the livery unveilling

 

 

 

There were a few. Rumor has it that they had to bring 5% of their total supply to that presentation.



#947 danmills

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 15:09

That would honestly be an amazing logo for them to adopt, purely for the sheer level of avant-garde WTFness that is so befitting of this whole saga. Please let them use this if they ask for it. Bloody beautiful. :rotfl:

 

Or go all out weird like this :lol: Just given them their entire marketing campaign; slogan; identity; brand expansion and flexibility.

 

CHOOSE.jpg


Edited by danmills, 08 February 2019 - 15:11.


#948 Counterbalance

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 15:15

Fine, I too have real world experience with LLCs, Ltd Cos, corporations, partnerships, the whole deal. The issue of the location of the registered office per se was not my point. Rather my point was that the registered address in a rent-a-desk building appears to be the only tangible thing about a company that claims to have 10s of millions to spend on motor racing and claims to have sold 90 million cans of some mystery liquid.

"Rich Energy Limited" - Most recent Companies House filing 05 September, 2018. Total share capital: £100.

The launch of a Formula One car with a new title sponsor and eye-catching new livery is a pretty big deal, yes? So why is there nothing anywhere from Rich Energy to leverage that announcement: no advertising, no product in stores, no contact details? A rather strange way to sell mass-market consumer goods, wouldn't you say?


£100 share capital is standard for a UK Limited Company. Upon its incorporation, there are 100 ordinary shares available for allocation, with a nominal value of £1 per share. It does not mean that the company is only worth £100, though.

You can, if you wish, allocate more shares, by filing a statement of affairs at Companies House. You could issue 10,000 shares if you wish, but in reality it means little.

Quoting a few documents filed at Companies House doesn't accurately picture a company's true financial status because such documents are so easy to misread.

#949 thegforcemaybewithyou

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 15:39

What?

 

ToeMJ7KtN5Vf6CFQ6R5ChQc-DWg@200x200.gif



#950 Nathan

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 15:58

 

As an investor myself, I'm ecstatic with 6%. 

 

But it's a case of risk vs. reward, isn't it?  Put $1000 in Coca Cola and a 6% annual return is good because the odds of that investment becoming $0 is near 0.  Conversely, put $1000 into Rich Energy at this stage and you very well may lose the whole lot in a few years.  No good investor is going to accept 6% for that. I'd argue sufficiently sized investors would still be reluctant with an annual return 3 times that.

 

I build apartment/flat rentals that by their nature have one-third of their mortgages guaranteed by the government giving me very favourable mortgages and I have a hard time getting accredited investors out of bed offering a 6% cap rate.  6% compounded annually doesn't even match the conservative S&P500 over a 10, 20, 30 or 40-year span.  Unless you just invest in bonds, aim higher.