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What is 'Rich Energy'?


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#951 Peat

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 16:20

I've seen this theory mentioned a few times and I don't get it, obviously because I have such a pure and innocent mind. If you had a load of money why would you want to get rid of it and why invest it in a sponsorship deal?

I know that would be seen as a legitimate advertising expense, but at the end of the day you've still spent the money..

 

I don't really know what i'm talking about either btw.

 

But look at your classic money laundering operation, for example, a barber shop or tattoo parlour - any cash business. These are used as fronts to turn illicit cash into usable money. The tax man can't possibly prove how many haircuts/tattoos they have done in a day/week/month. Just take a look on your local high street, you'll see these small businesses that you seldom see customers in, yet they somehow seem to employ 5 or 6 people who are sat around on their phones.

My hypothesis in a scenario such as this is that you have so much cash that it's an interest liability and you need it in the system so you can invest it in legit things. So, by agreement with a receiver, ideally one who has a big cash flow, you inject large amounts of cash into their business and in return they feed it back to you piecemeal, or in exchange for goods/services, while taking a % themselves. In an F1 team, big transactions won't exactly stand out on a ledger. So, if they purchase any old item from one of your 'other' companies for a silly amount (Here's you bag of 10x M5 nuts sir, that'll be $250k) you can have the money in your account.

I don't know if that's even possible, but I like to imagine there's some Croatian dude stroking a white cat on his lap looking at all this going "mwah hahahahaaaaa!"

Mods, if you feel this is verging on slander. I will delete it quick sharp.



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#952 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 16:24

But it's a case of risk vs. reward, isn't it?  Put $1000 in Coca Cola and a 6% annual return is good because the odds of that investment becoming $0 is near 0.  Conversely, put $1000 into Rich Energy at this stage and you very well may lose the whole lot in a few years.  No good investor is going to accept 6% for that. I'd argue sufficiently sized investors would still be reluctant with an annual return 3 times that.

 

I build apartment/flat rentals that by their nature have one-third of their mortgages guaranteed by the government giving me very favourable mortgages and I have a hard time getting accredited investors out of bed offering a 6% cap rate.  6% compounded annually doesn't even match the conservative S&P500 over a 10, 20, 30 or 40-year span.  Unless you just invest in bonds, aim higher.

I do have some REITS that actually pay pretty well, so yes I do invest in (commercial) rentals at an arms distance. There are also problems with owning REITS that I won't go into here.

I also own rentals personally, that I am trying to unload. Renters are a pain in the ass and are slobs. They were nice to have for a while when I did all the work on them myself, but at over sixty I don't want the hassle of pestering them for rent, or having to have them down for a couple of months undergoing repairs to rent again. Once you retire, there are no more raises, and no more bonuses and no paycheck every week. At this point in life I live off my past and current investing.



#953 New Britain

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 16:33

£100 share capital is standard for a UK Limited Company. Upon its incorporation, there are 100 ordinary shares available for allocation, with a nominal value of £1 per share. It does not mean that the company is only worth £100, though.

You can, if you wish, allocate more shares, by filing a statement of affairs at Companies House. You could issue 10,000 shares if you wish, but in reality it means little.

Quoting a few documents filed at Companies House doesn't accurately picture a company's true financial status because such documents are so easy to misread.

I appreciate that, but the $100 share capital is the only number in the Companies House filings (apart from the ownership of the 100 shares). Although the company was created 3 1/2 years ago, it has yet to report a balance sheet or turnover. This lack of information usually indicates a complete lack of activity.

Amongst the shareholders listed are Storey (64 shares) and something called "Brandsellers Holdings Limited (12 shares). Companies House does not show any company under the name "Brandsellers Holdings". Yes, a few other countries have limited companies, but this is another of many lacunae.

None of this in itself is smoking-gun proof that Rich Energy is just a Potemkin village, but in so many ways there is a lack of substantiation where one would expect to find some, and in so few ways is there affirmative evidence that this company is what it claims to be, that extreme scepticism is in order. Caveat emptor.



#954 pdac

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 16:44

£100 share capital is standard for a UK Limited Company. Upon its incorporation, there are 100 ordinary shares available for allocation, with a nominal value of £1 per share. It does not mean that the company is only worth £100, though.

You can, if you wish, allocate more shares, by filing a statement of affairs at Companies House. You could issue 10,000 shares if you wish, but in reality it means little.

Quoting a few documents filed at Companies House doesn't accurately picture a company's true financial status because such documents are so easy to misread.

 

This is a genuine question. I have little experience in company law.

 

Have you actually looked at their filings and their marketing and promotion material that's out there? It all seems very odd to me - for a company that is trying to retail a low-cost product.



#955 danmills

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:06

New website now up and running :)

 

https://richenergy.com/



#956 Counterbalance

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:15

Their records don't seem out of order. They've filed confirmation statements, which were previously known as annual returns (a financial snapshot of the company which were a bastard to fill in when known as A363's in the late 80's). They have just under £870k of net assets (which again, may not be a true reflection of the company's actual status), so everything seems to be in order. The one thing that I do find strange is that as previously mentioned by New Britain that Brandsellers Holdings Limited does not appear to exist.

The reason I'm fairly comfortable with regard to the Companies Act is that I wrote company law software for quite a period of time and have incorporated many, many companies.

I can also dig into their website and have a look as I now design sites for a living. Although if you're ever considering choosing web design as a career, don't. Its a mind numbingly dull job, littered with idiotic clients who have no idea what they want, but only want to pay a few hundred quid for it...

But I shall have a look and see, then give you my honest appraisal as to their online presence.

#957 danmills

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:21

Found this...

 

reold.jpg

and even Googles own image search algorithms can't tell them apart! Look at the bottom  :rotfl:

 

match.jpg


Edited by danmills, 08 February 2019 - 17:22.


#958 Counterbalance

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:23

New website now up and running :)

https://richenergy.com/


Well it's designed using Wordpress, that much I can tell you. Had a quick look at the css for the design template they are using. The code is clean and professional, and it doesn't look as if they've paid $75 for it from Template Monster or Theme Forest. So far, so good.

#959 Maxioos

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:33

New website now up and running :)
 
https://richenergy.com/


Thanks. They have the logo on clothing now. Interesting.

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#960 jradicals

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:33

New website now up and running :)

 

https://richenergy.com/

 

New look site, same amateur hour setup  :lol:  

Aside from the rambling paragraphs with poor use of punctuation, the real highlight is when you take a look at their "privacy policy". Not only is it a basic template privacy policy from a third party provider, they (he?) hasn't even filled in all of the bracketed sections in the template. I guess if Storey is reading these forums it will be fixed soon, but for now it is quite a read.

 

 

For example:
 

11.4  We use [identify service provider] to [specify service]. This service uses cookies for [specify purpose(s)]. You can view the privacy policy of this service provider at [URL].[ The relevant cookies are: [identify cookies].]

 

 

5.2    We[ and our other group companies] have [offices and facilities] in [specify countries].[ The European Commission has made an “adequacy decision” with respect to [the data protection laws of each of these countries].][ Transfers to [each of these countries] will be protected by appropriate safeguards, namely [the use of standard data protection clauses adopted or approved by the European Commission, a copy of which can be obtained from [source]] OR [the use of binding corporate rules, a copy of which you can obtain from [source]] OR [[specify appropriate safeguards and means to obtain a copy]].]

 

 

Our details
13.1  This website is owned and operated by [name].
 
13.2  We are registered in [England and Wales] under registration number [number], and our registered office is at [address].
 
13.3  Our principal place of business is at [address].
 
13.4  You can contact us:
 
(a)    [by post, to [the postal address given above]];
 
(b)    [using our website contact form];
 
©    [by telephone, on [the contact number published on our website from time to time]]; or
 
(d)    [by email, using [the email address published on our website from time to time]].
 
[additional list items]

 

 



#961 PiperPa42

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:36

New website now up and running :)

https://richenergy.com/

I’m unable to put the drinks in the basket in their webshop.

#962 Maxioos

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:38

Well it's designed using Wordpress, that much I can tell you. Had a quick look at the css for the design template they are using. The code is clean and professional, and it doesn't look as if they've paid $75 for it from Template Monster or Theme Forest. So far, so good.


Still only UK delivery. 9 products, the one that counts as last one. Are they a clothing company or a energy drink company? It's a improvement, but still not impressed at all.

#963 Counterbalance

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:40

I’m unable to put the drinks in the basket in their webshop.


That'll probably be because they'll be sorting stock levels out in WooCommerce, a shopping cart plugin widely used on Wordpress installations. And I'd bet they're using that. I'm only on my phone right now, but will have a proper look when I'm at my PC after I've eaten my Chinese...

#964 pdac

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:41

I’m unable to put the drinks in the basket in their webshop.

 

Did you declare that you are 16+?



#965 pdac

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:43

That'll probably be because they'll be sorting stock levels out in WooCommerce, a shopping cart plugin widely used on Wordpress installations. And I'd bet they're using that. I'm only on my phone right now, but will have a proper look when I'm at my PC after I've eaten my Chinese...

 

Ah. could be that I just put 10 cases in my basket - I probably reserved the entire stock.



#966 Counterbalance

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:44

Still only UK delivery. 9 products, the one that counts as last one. Are they a clothing company or a energy drink company? It's a improvement, but still not impressed at all.


I'm assuming that they're configuring it on the fly. Not the best way to launch a site, I grant you that. I've seen it done many times before, but it really should have all been finished for the day of the car launch.

#967 Counterbalance

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:45

Ah. could be that I just put 10 cases in my basket - I probably reserved the entire stock.


I can't begin to describe how much I hate WooCommerce...

#968 Maxioos

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:48

 

New look site, same amateur hour setup  :lol:  

Aside from the rambling paragraphs with poor use of punctuation, the real highlight is when you take a look at their "privacy policy". Not only is it a basic template privacy policy from a third party provider, they (he?) hasn't even filled in all of the bracketed sections in the template. I guess if Storey is reading these forums it will be fixed soon, but for now it is quite a read.

 

 

For example:
 

 

 

 

 

 

I just don't understand how you can place that online while not complete/correct. That's just a couple hours maximal evening work to make correct before going online. It's also legal obligated to have that info on the website when selling online. The seller has the duty and the costumer the right to tell/know contact info etc. before and after a sell/buy. Just very amateuristisch.



#969 pdac

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:48

I can't begin to describe how much I hate WooCommerce...

 

Who'd have thought that 10 cases contains 90 million cans.



#970 BobbyRicky

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:50

That'll probably be because they'll be sorting stock levels out in WooCommerce, a shopping cart plugin widely used on Wordpress installations. And I'd bet they're using that. I'm only on my phone right now, but will have a proper look when I'm at my PC after I've eaten my Chinese...

 

Why would you eat a Chinese?



#971 pdac

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:51

I just don't understand how you can place that online while not complete/correct. That's just a couple hours maximal evening work to make correct before going online. It's also legal obligated to have that info on the website when selling online. The seller has the duty and the costumer the right to tell/know contact info etc. before and after a sell/buy. Just very amateuristisch.

 

The shop works perfectly well without the terms and conditions, just like a car works perfectly well without tax or insurance.



#972 danmills

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:51

I don't get why the clothing says 'as low as' which to me implies there are alternative prices on (assumed variables) bulk or size differences. They seem to be the same!? Like the order 1 crate or 1m crates.



#973 Maxioos

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:51

Why would you eat a Chinese?

 

Indeed, no meat on them.



#974 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:52

I'm assuming that they're configuring it on the fly. Not the best way to launch a site, I grant you that. I've seen it done many times before, but it really should have all been finished for the day of the car launch.

 

All the stuff in the Privacy not filled in should have been done by the company who designed the site, not the company - I have been part of launching sites, both internal and facing the public - We have never managed to deploy a bug free version.

 

Everything works and looks find in a staging environment, then deployed in to Production and untold number of settings, configurations and pieces of software are different between the environments... Agree 100% that the site should have been ready and as close to 100% working yesterday the second the livery was unveiled.

 

I am much more skeptical over the Rich Energy enterprise now than I were on page one in this thread... More and more seems to be Bernie Madoff meets the Emperor with no clothes. The one thing I am still (almost) certain of is that Haas have been paid first installment and the check did not bounce.

 

:cool:



#975 Counterbalance

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:53

Who'd have thought that 10 cases contains 90 million cans.


Well, just only a few days ago, their logo would in no way, shape or form appear on Haas cars, but it has, so enjoy your 90m cans of delicious Rich Energy.

You're gonna be wired for the next 40 years at least. Kiss goodbye to any notion of sleep, too...haha!

#976 jradicals

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:53

I just don't understand how you can place that online while not complete/correct. That's just a couple hours maximal evening work to make correct before going online. It's also legal obligated to have that info on the website when selling online. The seller has the duty and the costumer the right to tell/know contact info etc. before and after a sell/buy. Just very amateuristisch.

 

The privacy policy on the shop page is even worse (yes, the shop has a completely different policy template to the main site). The shop's privacy policy is just filled with questions for the website owner in empty sections.

 

Edit: It is the same, I retract my statement.

 

 

 

I know it's not the end of the world - if it weren't under these circumstances I would never have even looked at the policy page. But it doesn't help the professionalism image of a company title sponsoring a Formula One team, whether it is the company themselves or the third-party website creator who omitted filling in the forms.


Edited by jradicals, 08 February 2019 - 18:07.


#977 Maxioos

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:54

I don't get why the clothing says 'as low as' which to me implies there are alternative prices on (assumed variables) bulk or size differences. They seem to be the same!? Like the order 1 crate or 1m crates.

 

I also don't like the fact it are no pictures of the clothing but just drawings. I never would do that. Gives to me indication, they don't have those products yet either. 



#978 Counterbalance

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 17:57


The privacy policy on the shop page is even worse (yes, the shop has a completely different policy template to the main site). The shop's privacy policy is just filled with questions for the website owner in empty sections.



You get a privacy policy page as standard with every Wordpress installation. They should either delete it, or at least remove it from the menu. Like I said earlier, it's being done on the fly.

#979 Counterbalance

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:01

Indeed, no meat on them.


Ok, to be more specific, beef chow mein, and a portion of ribs, dry. I was gonna order a delicious energy drink to compliment my meal, but pdac just ordered 90,000,000 cans by mistake and cleared their stock out.

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#980 Maxioos

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:02

You can only buy one product at the time. I can't place 10 or 5 jackets in the basket but can place one in there. But i also can't place multiple orders of one in there. I am just limited in buying one jacket. Now i can't ship to the Netherlands, so doesn't matter if they miss one or 10 sells, but i would also never, ever limit the buy amount of a costumer.



#981 pdac

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:06

Well, just only a few days ago, their logo would in no way, shape or form appear on Haas cars, but it has, so enjoy your 90m cans of delicious Rich Energy.

You're gonna be wired for the next 40 years at least. Kiss goodbye to any notion of sleep, too...haha!

 

Hey, at my age, being anything but dead for the next 40 years will be fine with me.



#982 danmills

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:07

I also don't like the fact it are no pictures of the clothing but just drawings. I never would do that. Gives to me indication, they don't have those products yet either. 

 

There should be a McBeard jacket option. Assuming this is just a one year deal, I wonder if they turn successful (either HAAS on track of RE as a brand) this may well become a cult-like relationship in F1 history for several years.



#983 Counterbalance

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:07

Hey, at my age, being anything but dead for the next 40 years will be fine with me.


90 million cans. Sharing is caring, you know!

#984 Maxioos

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:08

Well, just only a few days ago, their logo would in no way, shape or form appear on Haas cars, but it has, so enjoy your 90m cans of delicious Rich Energy.

You're gonna be wired for the next 40 years at least. Kiss goodbye to any notion of sleep, too...haha!

 

Who has said that? I don't think anyone ever said that or even implied that.



#985 pdac

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:08

You can only buy one product at the time. I can't place 10 or 5 jackets in the basket but can place one in there. But i also can't place multiple orders of one in there. I am just limited in buying one jacket. Now i can't ship to the Netherlands, so doesn't matter if they miss one or 10 sells, but i would also never, ever limit the buy amount of a costumer.

 

Perhaps they only have one jacket.



#986 pdac

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:09

90 million cans. Sharing is caring, you know!

 

Get your own 90 million cans, freeloader!



#987 Counterbalance

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:09

Who has said that? I don't think anyone ever said that or even implied that.


It was the general impression I took from reading the Rich / Whyte dispute.

#988 Maxioos

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:13

It was the general impression I took from reading the Rich / Whyte dispute.

 

There only is speculated what best option for them could be with coming court case in mind. But, no one has said or implied, "logo won't be on the car in any way, shape or form". Your impression is not the correct translation of these 20 pages imo. 



#989 Counterbalance

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:15

There only is speculated what best option for them could be with coming court case in mind. But, no one has said or implied, "logo won't be on the car in any way, shape or form". Your impression is not the correct translation of these 20 pages imo.


Let's just agree to disagree on this point, this thread is way too fun to spoil. :)

Edited by Counterbalance, 08 February 2019 - 18:26.


#990 GiorgioF1

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:16

You can only buy one product at the time. I can't place 10 or 5 jackets in the basket but can place one in there. But i also can't place multiple orders of one in there. I am just limited in buying one jacket. Now i can't ship to the Netherlands, so doesn't matter if they miss one or 10 sells, but i would also never, ever limit the buy amount of a costumer.

 

That's because every time someone places an order they have to produce the whole thing. You dont think thay have that many batches available at any time do You? :lol:



#991 Counterbalance

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:18

That's because every time someone places an order they have to produce the whole thing. You dont think thay have that many batches available at any time do You? :lol:


Do try to keep up, someone bought their entire stock earlier on this page.

Edited by Counterbalance, 08 February 2019 - 18:19.


#992 danmills

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:20

So has anyone here, besides me, actually got Rich Energy to hand and can confirm distribution exists?


Edited by danmills, 08 February 2019 - 18:20.


#993 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:26

Let's just agree to disagree on this point, this thread is way to fun to spoil. :)

 

Not picking sides, but I am on your side on this...  :)

 

:cool:



#994 Maxioos

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:26

So has anyone here, besides me, actually got Rich Energy to hand and can confirm distribution exists?

 

Yes (kind of), one of the mods had a taste of it in her bar when her bartender was drinking it if i remember correct.



#995 pdac

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:28

Not picking sides, but I am on your side on this...  :)

 

:cool:

 

To 'balance' things, I'll be on the other, then.



#996 GiorgioF1

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:33

Yes (kind of), one of the mods had a taste of it in her bar when her bartender was drinking it if i remember correct.

 

I know for a fact that one can of Rich Energy was a main prize in some small Kubica lottery in Poland after US GP when Storey took a photo with Robert.



#997 Maxioos

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:45

The .US site isn't changed. Also strange. Who would have different (layout/content) website's? Why not redirect the .us towards the .com site? The 20 employees mentioned on the US site are not on the new .com site.

 

Edit:

 

Okay, now i find next thing. (it just keeps on giving) 

 

Remember this posting #708? https://forums.autos...ergy/?p=8635370

 

They now removed all last/family-names and only display first name (still no bio's) https://www.richener...ciate/jonathan/

 

I checked than because it looked "stock pics". Now, i don't believe any one of those persons is truly working for them. 

 

Why (well, because i called them out on it i suspect) put effort and time in removing the last names of the pics and of the "bio pages" instead of updating the bio's/website.


Edited by Maxioos, 08 February 2019 - 18:54.


#998 Counterbalance

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:50

The .US site isn't changed. Also strange. Who would have different (layout/content) website's? Why not redirect the .us towards the .com site? The 20 employees mentioned on the US site are not on the new .com site.


They'll get around to it eventually, it's only four lines of php code to force a 301 permanent redirect. Unless they're developing a specific US site, but I can't see the point in that.

#999 Maxioos

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:54

They'll get around to it eventually, it's only four lines of php code to force a 301 permanent redirect. Unless they're developing a specific US site, but I can't see the point in that.

 

I edited the post, they did work on the side last couple day's.

 

I can see purpose for "own" .us site, but for sure should be same look and feel. No whole independent design and layout.


Edited by Maxioos, 08 February 2019 - 18:55.


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#1000 Counterbalance

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 18:58

I edited the post, they did work on the side last couple day's.

I can see purpose for "own" .us site, but for sure should be same look and feel. No whole independent design and layout.


Totally agree on the last point.