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What is 'Rich Energy'?


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#1151 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 20:44

They can not be the only company being this obvious.... the mind boggles... I can use photo's my niece took and make something as an add, do they not have anyone with an android or iPhone who can take a picture of a pool?

 

:cool:



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#1152 phrank

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 20:46

Every day I start to admire William Storey more and more, what he can do on his own from his bedroom must be the biggest trick in Formula 1 ever


Edited by phrank, 15 February 2019 - 20:46.


#1153 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 20:57

Here we go, not stolen anything form anyone...

 

Rich-Energy-for-everyone.png

 

:cool:



#1154 danmills

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 21:36

The thing is, they can and are getting away with it because the people that have these images are not bothered.

I asked two of those I’ve seen reused. The reply? It is of no interest or bother to us.

So that’s how. One day it’ll be to the wrong person, but seconds to delete and all is forgotten.

#1155 Maxioos

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 23:34

The thing is, they can and are getting away with it because the people that have these images are not bothered.
I asked two of those I’ve seen reused. The reply? It is of no interest or bother to us.
So that’s how. One day it’ll be to the wrong person, but seconds to delete and all is forgotten.


The thing is, if they (RE) allow this in their company and apparently find it normal. It doesn't give believe good indication and trustworthy believe
other company related factors. And it for sure doesn't fit "premium" status and image.

#1156 danmills

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 01:08

One man band, has to be!



#1157 Jazza

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 03:31

So how many pages until this officially becomes fakegate? Because I can’t see how this ends any other way than the whole thing being shown to be a lie. No one with a factory making nearly 100,000,000 cans and having millions to throw at an F1 team would need to do this. School kids looking for attention can fake their life events on social media better than this.

#1158 danmills

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 11:40

Seems amateur motor sport writers are using the items discovered and dug up in this thread as a source of info to generate their own articles.

 

Any more on that missing lorry haul?



#1159 pdac

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 11:44

Seems amateur motor sport writers are using the items discovered and dug up in this thread as a source of info to generate their own articles.

 

Any more on that missing lorry haul?

 

I heard that Rich Energy had a "theft from lorry" clause in their sponsorship deal with Haas.


Edited by pdac, 18 February 2019 - 11:44.


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#1160 Grippy

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 15:40

As it's back on the front page I did some sums:

 

90,000,000 cans of drink would fill 9 Olympic swimming pools (2m deep),

 

If they were stacked on 1x1 metre pallets 3 deep in a warehouse they would need 100m x 75m of floor space.

 

 

The trademark court case is on 12-13 March with judgement due on 1st of May, so Haas will have at least 4 races of sponsorship.



#1161 BalanceUT

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 17:06

I preach to my students to not plagiarize as it will eventually cause them serious professional problems... Looks like my attitude may be consigned to the dustbin of history. 



#1162 pdac

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 17:43

I preach to my students to not plagiarize as it will eventually cause them serious professional problems... Looks like my attitude may be consigned to the dustbin of history. 

 

Have you seen the number of law suits and counter suits taken out by tech companies against each other over the past couple of decades? Forget plagiarism, just go with direct theft - by the time there are any repercussions, it won't matter to you very much.



#1163 DanardiF1

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 17:55

I preach to my students to not plagiarize as it will eventually cause them serious professional problems... Looks like my attitude may be consigned to the dustbin of history. 

 

As Morrissey of The Smiths famously sung 'If you must make dodgy energy drink brands, The logo you use should be your own, Don't plagiarise or take "on loan"



#1164 Myrvold

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 18:06

I preach to my students to not plagiarize as it will eventually cause them serious professional problems... Looks like my attitude may be consigned to the dustbin of history. 

Casestudy. ****jerry... erhm. That is f.u.c.kjerry without the dots.


Edited by Myrvold, 18 February 2019 - 18:06.


#1165 BalanceUT

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 19:05

As Morrissey of The Smiths famously sung 'If you must make dodgy energy drink brands, The logo you use should be your own, Don't plagiarise or take "on loan"

I show a video of Morrissey and the Smiths singing that (Cemetry Gates), and do variations of plagiarizing and paraphrasing it to illustrate concepts... Not joking. One of my favorite Smiths songs. 


Edited by BalanceUT, 18 February 2019 - 19:05.


#1166 BRG

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 19:05

I am not really much bothered about a minor kerfuffle over the logo - storm in a tea-cup glass of energy drink. 

 

If you want to worry about plagiarism, consider the industrial-scale (literally) state-sponsored theft of intellectual property which China has been conducting for a decade or more.  Ask BMW who went to court over a locally -made clone of the X5 , made by Shon-qui, or Don-qui (or was it Wan-qui?) only to be told that there was no resemblance whatsoever by the (Chinese) judge. 



#1167 BalanceUT

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 19:09

First slide shows this:

When you write, the words you use should be your own, don’t plagiarize or take ‘on loan.’ There is always someone with a ‘big nose’ who knows what you did. He will trip you up and laugh when you fall. 

Then, I have a "stamp" of plagiarism slap down on it and show this:

 

"If you must write prose or poems the words you use should be your own. Don’t plagiarize or take on loan. ‘Cause there is always someone, somewhere with a big nose, who knows and who trips you up and laughs when you fall."

Then, I show a video of the group singing the song... I don't show a more recent Morrisey video because he looks like 'old Elvis', LOL!

Then, properly paraphrased, 

"

  • As Morrissey (1986) noted, when you plagiarize you run the risk that someone who reads it knows the original writing and turn you in. He further notes, some people could even take pleasure in turning you in."

Edited by BalanceUT, 18 February 2019 - 19:15.


#1168 Alburaq

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 19:11

A superb effort today in testing by @HaasF1Team & the tremendously talented @RGrosjean . Our 1st day in @F1 & we are faster than @redbullracing.



#1169 BalanceUT

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 19:12

I am not really much bothered about a minor kerfuffle over the logo - storm in a tea-cup glass of energy drink. 

 

If you want to worry about plagiarism, consider the industrial-scale (literally) state-sponsored theft of intellectual property which China has been conducting for a decade or more.  Ask BMW who went to court over a locally -made clone of the X5 , made by Shon-qui, or Don-qui (or was it Wan-qui?) only to be told that there was no resemblance whatsoever by the (Chinese) judge. 

This is a genuine problem that puts companies in a terrible bind. On the one hand, the potential Chinese market for products is massive. On the other hand, there is a guarantee that China will just steal whatever IP they like and their court system will validate it every step of the way. 



#1170 GiorgioF1

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 19:38

A superb effort today in testing by @HaasF1Team & the tremendously talented @RGrosjean . Our 1st day in @F1 & we are faster than @redbullracing.

 

:rotfl:

 

They are getting roasted in the comments.


Edited by GiorgioF1, 18 February 2019 - 19:40.


#1171 Grippy

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 20:03

Thanks GiorgioF1.

that was well worth a read.

"@YorkshireTea is better than the lot of you" :rotfl:



#1172 Marklar

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 20:30

we are faster than @redbullracing

#betterthanredbull

 

 

This is going to age well.



#1173 DanardiF1

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 20:48

I show a video of Morrissey and the Smiths singing that (Cemetry Gates), and do variations of plagiarizing and paraphrasing it to illustrate concepts... Not joking. One of my favorite Smiths songs. 

 

That's something we share then... fantastic song. The Smiths are my go-to 'walking wistfully in the rain' music haha



#1174 DanardiF1

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 20:50

I am not really much bothered about a minor kerfuffle over the logo - storm in a tea-cup glass of energy drink. 

 

If you want to worry about plagiarism, consider the industrial-scale (literally) state-sponsored theft of intellectual property which China has been conducting for a decade or more.  Ask BMW who went to court over a locally -made clone of the X5 , made by Shon-qui, or Don-qui (or was it Wan-qui?) only to be told that there was no resemblance whatsoever by the (Chinese) judge. 

 

Surprise surprise, communists don't support private property rights...



#1175 sniper80

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 22:13

Rich Energy sure gets on my nerves. Why oh why did Haas let themselves in with such a "sponsor"?



#1176 GiorgioF1

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 22:27

This is hilarious. So many replies now:

 

"Your 1st day in F1 and i dont like you already. Setting yourself up for a massive fall when the season finally gets underway with talk like that."

 

"Would’ve thought that you’d have been brought up to speed on how F1 works already, and realised that this is actually testing, and day one for that matter, too, but whatever floats your boat chief."

 

"Is there alcohol in your Energy Drink? You shouldn’t drink when tweeting. It’s only day 1 of testing."

 

"As far as first impressions go, you’re giving off a **** one. Well done."

 

"That's all they produce. All stolen pictures. Even the logo is stolen. In March they have to go to court."

 

"Would actually try their stuff but it's not sold anywhere. They don't seem to engage on Twitter either. Won't be around next season."

 

"I really hope for Haas, which is a great team, that this Rich Energy isnt gonna blow up in their face and leaves them with a whole lot of trouble."



#1177 lbennie

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 02:44

wow, these guys are going to be annoying aren't they.

 

Any publicity is good publicity I suppose.



#1178 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 04:20

He's taking the piss with that comment. And everyone is grabbing the bait.

Exactly what he wants - brings attention and publicity.

#1179 Maxioos

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 08:06

He's taking the piss with that comment. And everyone is grabbing the bait.
Exactly what he wants - brings attention and publicity.


You think 100 comments on a tweet is better then a press release with positive news in 100th publications (like now available in ... countries, etc.)?

If this is their PR strategy, it's just bad and won't accomplish much.

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#1180 taran

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 09:40

I am not really much bothered about a minor kerfuffle over the logo - storm in a tea-cup glass of energy drink. 

 

If you want to worry about plagiarism, consider the industrial-scale (literally) state-sponsored theft of intellectual property which China has been conducting for a decade or more.  Ask BMW who went to court over a locally -made clone of the X5 , made by Shon-qui, or Don-qui (or was it Wan-qui?) only to be told that there was no resemblance whatsoever by the (Chinese) judge. 

 

 

Your example is obviously correct. But your attitude and DanardiF1 shows IMO that you miss the historical aspect to this behaviour.

 

Chinese have a long memory and as a people, they remember perfectly well how their country had been brutally exploited by Western countries and Japan with total disregard for their own laws and courts in previous centuries.

 

Now we can argue that what happened then should not be relevant today but strangely enough that argument is usually used by the descendants of the people who committed the crimes. And who are currently still benefitting from that exploitation as in much of Great Britain’s current wealth and industrial capacity was built on the exploitation of India and China and there is very little appetite for restitution. Great Britain won’t even give stolen cultural items back (Koh-i-Noor, Parthenon Marbles).

 

So yes, the Chinese don’t particularly care about Western property rights and care little for Western laws and courts. They learned their lesson well.     

 

 

 



#1181 ensign14

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 09:45

The whole IP thing clashes with plagiarism being one of the required skills for a master craftsman.  The ability to imitate the style of anyone else.  Being able to replicate a landscape by Shen Zhou is a sign of brilliance.  So there is a long tradition of using someone else's creativity.

 

IP rights are quite a new thing, they're a Renaissance creation. 

 

Incidentally, Britain bought the Elgin Marbles from Lord Elgin, who bought them from the Turks, who had occupied that area of land for several centuries.  There was no such independent state as Greece until 1830 and even then it did not include Athens.  The custodians before the Turks were the Romans (the Byzantines were the last knockings of the Roman Empire), before them the Macedonians, and before them various Greek-speaking independent city states going back to Athens - which built the Parthenon using money extorted from other states in the name of "security".  

 

And thank God Britain did so.  Had they been left up there, they would by now have been dissolved into non-existence thanks to Athenian pollution.



#1182 taran

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 10:21

The whole IP thing clashes with plagiarism being one of the required skills for a master craftsman.  The ability to imitate the style of anyone else.  Being able to replicate a landscape by Shen Zhou is a sign of brilliance.  So there is a long tradition of using someone else's creativity.

 

IP rights are quite a new thing, they're a Renaissance creation. 

 

Incidentally, Britain bought the Elgin Marbles from Lord Elgin, who bought them from the Turks, who had occupied that area of land for several centuries.  There was no such independent state as Greece until 1830 and even then it did not include Athens.  The custodians before the Turks were the Romans (the Byzantines were the last knockings of the Roman Empire), before them the Macedonians, and before them various Greek-speaking independent city states going back to Athens - which built the Parthenon using money extorted from other states in the name of "security".  

 

And thank God Britain did so.  Had they been left up there, they would by now have been dissolved into non-existence thanks to Athenian pollution.

 

That is a rather self-centred view.

Firstly, the claims by Elgin that he "bought" the marbles with permission has never been substantiated. The Ottoman archives have nothing about this and they are extremely detailed. Nobody really believes Elgin legally bought them. At best, his henchmen paid off a local Ottoman official to look the other way.

 

And it is the height of imagined racial superiority to think that stealing someone's property is ok because they can't take of it "properly".

The last time I heard such blatant racism was when the Australian government's views were made public about them taking aboriginal children away from their parents to give them to white Australians.....



#1183 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 10:22

You think 100 comments on a tweet is better then a press release with positive news in 100th publications (like now available in ... countries, etc.)?

If this is their PR strategy, it's just bad and won't accomplish much.

I'm amazed your still taking this all so seriously. I'm not... I was pointing out how absurd it all is 😂

#1184 Rinehart

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 10:36

As others have commented I agree with the theory that a bit of plagiarism/IP theft/copyright infringement will probably get them in next to no trouble. The actual damage is indirect. It's the notion that a "PREMIUM LUXURY BRAND" would act like this, is incompatible with their stated brand positioning. This is far more of a problem for a premium luxury brand where people are buying into sophistication, exclusivity, class and reputation. Would Prada have established itself as a leading luxury fashion brand with a nabbed logo, photoshopped images of celebrities wearing their clothes, tales of "British" heritage and claims of exclusively using the furriest fur. I think not. Premiumness cannot also be tacky and faddish.  



#1185 ensign14

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 10:45

 

The last time I heard such blatant racism was when the Australian government's views were made public about them taking aboriginal children away from their parents to give them to white Australians.....

 

Well, you obviously lead a sheltered life.  Although I struggle to see how the Caucasian ensign with a Masters in Classics could possibly be racist regarding the Caucasian Greeks.
 



#1186 Maxioos

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 11:11

I'm amazed your still taking this all so seriously. I'm not... I was pointing out how absurd it all is

 

I do not. You keep thinking you know my reasoning and "seriousness" about this. Stop playing "psychic" and think you know how i think. 

 

There is no indication you made "pointing out how absurd it all is" and not made your comment as a serious fact/opinion. "He's taking the piss with that comment. And everyone is grabbing the bait. 

Exactly what he wants - brings attention and publicity."



#1187 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 11:46

How you think is evident in your posts on the subject and the frequency of your posting in this thread.

Lets put it this way - over the decades there have been many somewhat questionable sponsors, team owners, conpanies etc involved in F1. Its nothing new. Lets see what happens here.

And my response to the tweet wasn't serious. I'm pointing out that the tweet is basically a joke, they're not serious about what they're writing. Its outlandish and ridiculous, just like the launch comments. All designed for publicity. But I can see why it might have confused you. For that - apologies.

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 19 February 2019 - 11:48.


#1188 Maxioos

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 12:05

As others have commented I agree with the theory that a bit of plagiarism/IP theft/copyright infringement will probably get them in next to no trouble. The actual damage is indirect. It's the notion that a "PREMIUM LUXURY BRAND" would act like this, is incompatible with their stated brand positioning. This is far more of a problem for a premium luxury brand where people are buying into sophistication, exclusivity, class and reputation. Would Prada have established itself as a leading luxury fashion brand with a nabbed logo, photoshopped images of celebrities wearing their clothes, tales of "British" heritage and claims of exclusively using the furriest fur. I think not. Premiumness cannot also be tacky and faddish.  

 

We just don't know (imo).

 

As first, when did Whyte inform them (proven (by registered letter or lawyer, etc)) he uses their logo. If that was prior too RE's registration of the logo i think the registration has no value at all and using/registering a known stolen logo can just be fraud imo.

 

And, for me for most, The case is also against him as private person. As mentioned, not a person should (and will) ever take a court case against them in private person light, as unimportant and a non issue. That with prior sentence, their are people for less send to jail. Also people with far bigger (alleged in this case, innocent until proven....etc.) crimes that run free or with low punishment. 

 

Like said, we just don't know and imo. should not assume one outcome above a other with the limited info we have.

 

1: It could be that RE can keep using logo full on all they want global and Whyte has to pay legal costs etc. back to RE. (Big win RE, Whyte had no case)

 

2: It could be that RE is forced to change logo within a (reasonable) period of time (6 month?) and no compensation Whyte because not registering logo for instance and both pay own legal costs. (Tie)

 

3: It could be that RE is forced to stop using logo completely, RE AND he as person are convicted for fraud/theft and are forced to pay legal costs Whyte and who knows what a conviction (most as private person) could lead too. (Big win Whyte)

 

1- In this case "registration" would be more important than proven using it, having it, creating it, etc. much earlier. My research until now says, having/using it (proven) is far more important than the (stolen) registration.

2 - I could see this compromise (best for future both companies) outcome. 

3 - If Whyte has the case from start (informing RE, etc.) documented and did all legal right way (aka, RE did all the wrong way (which other bad actions they take i can't rule that out)), i can see this outcome. And, that for sure would lead too trouble.

 

I wait and see, but assuming it's a small issue i won't, but i don't take any court action as a small issue because you are part of a 3 party procedure (you, other party and the court.) and you have only influence your own actions and handling and have zero/little influence what the other 2 parties in this proces will do and/or do not. I also not assuming as fact he will end in jail and stuff like that, that's not the likely outcome, but also not something you just because not most logic/expected outcome should or could be dismissed as well on forehand. And that's because the possible big consequences of the worst outcome you have to prepare for that if possible. (Better safe than sorry)



#1189 Maxioos

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 12:16

How you think is evident in your posts on the subject and the frequency of your posting in this thread.

Lets put it this way - over the decades there have been many somewhat questionable sponsors, team owners, conpanies etc involved in F1. Its nothing new. Lets see what happens here.

And my response to the tweet wasn't serious. I'm pointing out that the tweet is basically a joke, they're not serious about what they're writing. Its outlandish and ridiculous, just like the launch comments. All designed for publicity. But I can see why it might have confused you. For that - apologies.

 

How you think is evident in your posts on the subject (that's than at least a succes) and the frequency of your posting in this thread. (That's just medical/therapy, nothing to do with "seriousness", just one of the topics that atm. keeps me awake and prevents my narcolepsie kicking in (i count i have 28 tabs open atm. so that gives indication this is 1/28 online importance too me atm.) and all online is just "stay awake therapy", real importance too me is my wife and daughter) 

 

I accept your apology and also understand you can't know my personal (unique) situation.

 

I also understand this "the tweet wasn't serious. I'm pointing out that the tweet is basically a joke, they're not serious about what they're writing. Its outlandish and ridiculous, just like the launch comments. All designed for publicity." But for me it's just such bad and low strategy that should just not be applied with such company with such potential and portrait/wished "image" 



#1190 Tsarwash

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 12:17

Oh dear. Can't we keep on laughing at the beardy man's amateur (but surprisingly effective) attempts at self-publicity, rather than the mire of global politics, etc. It's so much more fun. 



#1191 Maxioos

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 12:58

Oh dear. Can't we keep on laughing at the beardy man's amateur (but surprisingly effective) attempts at self-publicity, rather than the mire of global politics, etc. It's so much more fun.


The problem is, I don't see that "effective" publicity.

24 pages here, some reddit postings and a hyped tweet with most likely same group of interested/responding persons I just don't see as effective and "great".

I think for instance, the display of the logo on the car 1000+ times more effective PR than this board or a criticized tweet. It still could come, but with current numbers I don't see a great result with this "bad PR is PR" strategy. Than you don't need couple 100 or thousands to know about it, that's effective if hundreds of thousands or millions know about it.

If for instance the court case gets nation/global coverage, regardless outcome, I change side and will say, strategy worked, they got their coverage and everyone knows their name/product.

I think for the effort they put in this strategy they could have for more and better PR. Just a simple video walking on Tribune during a GP and giving free cans away could have got more PR than now made imo. Or, just thinking, make it even a small wheel spin game and they can win a can, a promo cap/shirt or that "luxury" package. I think this option out on the spot, it's 2 days preparation, day filming, and I think would be far better and more effective PR. You could have done that couple GPs with couple promo girl's/boys and you would have dozens and dozens of positive own pr films but also a lot of bystanders who will filming the wheelspin and winning on it.

Imo. "Bad PR is still PR" only counts and works when it's a accident or outside own control and by that rare. Deliberate making bad PR as strategy has far more (out of control) impact not PR related (trust business partners, etc.)

#1192 Tsarwash

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 14:06

The problem is, I don't see that "effective" publicity.
 

We do not know how much money has changed hands, but they are sponsoring a F1 team, which does get a lot of global publicity. And at least here, people are talking about them. I suspect that in a few months when the season is underway a lot more people will be talking about the brand. As a start up brand, (to some extent) all publicity is good publicity.) As long as people are not talking about how awful it tastes, or that it poisons you, this is exactly what he wants. Out of every few thousand people who notice the brand, a few will buy a can to see what it is like. A few will like it. 



#1193 pdac

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 14:38

We do not know how much money has changed hands, but they are sponsoring a F1 team, which does get a lot of global publicity. And at least here, people are talking about them. I suspect that in a few months when the season is underway a lot more people will be talking about the brand. As a start up brand, (to some extent) all publicity is good publicity.) As long as people are not talking about how awful it tastes, or that it poisons you, this is exactly what he wants. Out of every few thousand people who notice the brand, a few will buy a can to see what it is like. A few will like it. 

 

Yes, but with a low-price product, they have to shift an awful lot of the stuff to make the numbers add up. They do not appear to be to be geared up to take advantage of their awareness campaign - but maybe we don't know the full picture of what's going on.



#1194 Alburaq

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 17:17

Caption this https://www.racefans...73876_HiRes.jpg



#1195 DanardiF1

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 17:19

 

'Where's the calculator, I need to work out how much it will cost to take that logo off of 90 million cans...'



#1196 GiorgioF1

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 17:23

 

I bet he is on Google Images :lol:



#1197 NotAPineapple

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 18:00

XPB_973876_HiRes.jpg
Undoubtedly checking Autosport's "What is Rich Energy" forum thead to find the next fire to be put out

#1198 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 18:52

He’s obviously got a bit of wealth from somewhere and wants to splash it about to enable him to hang around race cars.

If he was pushing this made up energy drink properly, surely he’d be away getting ready for their impending increase in demand... instead of lounging around the F1 paddock in Barcelona.

Is he basically going to blag VIP at every round now and go along with the Joe Saward school of thought that he’s more important because ‘he’s there, and you’re not’?

#1199 Pete_f1

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 18:57

Fake it till you make it.

Many have done just that.

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#1200 Tsarwash

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 18:58

Yes, but with a low-price product, they have to shift an awful lot of the stuff to make the numbers add up. They do not appear to be to be geared up to take advantage of their awareness campaign - but maybe we don't know the full picture of what's going on.

I am sure that you are correct. I was just commenting on his amateur but surprisingly effective publicity.