Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 16 votes

What is 'Rich Energy'?


  • Please log in to reply
5720 replies to this topic

#1701 BillyWhizz

BillyWhizz
  • Member

  • 775 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 21 April 2019 - 16:00

You signed the son of the singer from the least cool band in the history of mankind ? Gosh. 

 

Sorry Tsar, I couldn't just let that pass. Status Quo the least cool band in the history of mankind? C'mon man, Telecaster legends!



Advertisement

#1702 Tsarwash

Tsarwash
  • Member

  • 12,685 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 21 April 2019 - 17:22

Sorry Tsar, I couldn't just let that pass. Status Quo the least cool band in the history of mankind? C'mon man, Telecaster legends!

Fair enough, I didn't really think it would pass by without further comment.  :p Nice guys but not my cup of tea. 



#1703 pdac

pdac
  • Member

  • 8,134 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 21 April 2019 - 20:15

Nor does the strategy add up.

Nobody spends millions on a global ad campaign without a product that consumers are able to buy. If you cannot monetise your advertising, there is no point in having it in the first place.

This title sponsorship was announced six months ago (and let's not forget that supposedly Rich Energy wanted to buy Force India ten months ago). Why would you possibly make such a big spending commitment whilst knowing that you would not have product to sell on the back of it for many months (if ever) after the ad campaign was launched?

 

Exactly, that's why I said I have no idea what is going on. Nothing makes sense. Do you believe this is just a marketing campaign for an energy drink brand?



#1704 pdac

pdac
  • Member

  • 8,134 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 21 April 2019 - 20:18

Well of course there is a large source of cash available-it was supplied by the bunch of mugs who decided to jump onto the bandwagon and invest into his 'vision'. Most of the cash went on sponsorship of Haas. 

But that money has a limit. Investors want a winning team, be it F1, has-been Boxers (nice result by Lucas Browne BTW), Dakota Schuetz (who the hell is interested in an adult going around on scooters?), West Ham Ladies Football Club or motor-racing wannabe's.

Based on results-their return must be negligible. Winning mean exposure which should result in a massive amount of sales due to customer interest. Coming 10th. 11th, 12th or 13th in a field of about 20 does not equate to a winning team, no matter how much their TV presence generates.

Having 'ambassadors' costs him nothing. A few promises about being on board a juggernaut with promised future revenue or possible shares/exposure are only words. 

https://richenergy.com/ambassadors/  Quite a motley crew. 

 

The apathy towards the drink is palpable. But what is more than likely to happen is that he'll sell the idea/concept/vision to a real drinks company and then bugger off, leaving a trail of broken promises, unpaid bills and unfulfilled investors. 

And more than likely turn up running another Ponzi (Pyramid) scheme

 

Where is your evidence for this? Sure, in a normal world investors would want a return. But I cannot see what it is about this that would make investors invest in the first place. The people behind this do not seem to be acting like normal investors. The whole thing is very odd.



#1705 New Britain

New Britain
  • Member

  • 2,259 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 21 April 2019 - 20:42

Exactly, that's why I said I have no idea what is going on. Nothing makes sense. Do you believe this is just a marketing campaign for an energy drink brand?

Like everybody else I am unsure. What I think is the most likely explanation I would not post here lest it cause Autosport a legal problem.



#1706 RSRally

RSRally
  • Member

  • 954 posts
  • Joined: January 15

Posted 21 April 2019 - 21:04

Maybe the beard won the Euromillions lottery or something and is just enjoying spending his prize? Perhaps when the cash starts to run out he'll get around to actually trying to get the product on the shelves so this becomes self sustaining?

As has been said, none of this seems to be the way you'd normally go about doing business.

#1707 Barge

Barge
  • New Member

  • 27 posts
  • Joined: February 19

Posted 21 April 2019 - 21:06

Where is your evidence for this? Sure, in a normal world investors would want a return. But I cannot see what it is about this that would make investors invest in the first place. The people behind this do not seem to be acting like normal investors. The whole thing is very odd.

 

I'm sure you haven't led that sheltered a life, have you?. All it takes to convince investors looking to off-load spare cash and get tax -breaks, is a smooth-tongued snake-oil salesman, an almost viable idea and a few thousand cans and a handful of customers plus a few minor league celebrities to convince investors that this is going to be the biggest thing since......well......Red Bull. When all it really is is yet another energy drink with a half-believable story behind it (everyone loves a good story), dressed up in a fancy can, in an already overcrowded market-place. Sell a  good tale and repeat it enough times and the majority of people will eventually believe it. Figures can be manipulated, lies can be told and books can be cooked and it all lends to the legend. Please do not be taken in by this charlatan. For that is all he is. Sue and be damned!



#1708 StanBarrett2

StanBarrett2
  • Member

  • 1,021 posts
  • Joined: March 16

Posted 21 April 2019 - 21:14

It's all too  Rich for me anyway, there HAAS to be a Storey behind all of this



#1709 pdac

pdac
  • Member

  • 8,134 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 21 April 2019 - 21:27

I'm sure you haven't led that sheltered a life, have you?. All it takes to convince investors looking to off-load spare cash and get tax -breaks, is a smooth-tongued snake-oil salesman, an almost viable idea and a few thousand cans and a handful of customers plus a few minor league celebrities to convince investors that this is going to be the biggest thing since......well......Red Bull. When all it really is is yet another energy drink with a half-believable story behind it (everyone loves a good story), dressed up in a fancy can, in an already overcrowded market-place. Sell a  good tale and repeat it enough times and the majority of people will eventually believe it. Figures can be manipulated, lies can be told and books can be cooked and it all lends to the legend. Please do not be taken in by this charlatan. For that is all he is. Sue and be damned!

 

Have you read through everything on this thread? The 'investors' are not a bunch of novices - these are a handful of extremely rich (pardon the pun) individuals. And just count up the numbers - how many cans of this stuff would they need to sell to bring in a decent return and how long would they have to keep selling before they break even on such investment? And ... how many do you think they have sold so far?


Edited by pdac, 21 April 2019 - 21:28.


#1710 danmills

danmills
  • Member

  • 1,192 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 21 April 2019 - 21:41

There are people in this very thread that know way more than what has been allowed / openly posted. They know who they are.

Between then there is and has been direct contact with each of the big named players. Including Buffalo Bill himself.

It'll all come out eventually. Timing is everything.

#1711 statman

statman
  • Member

  • 4,705 posts
  • Joined: December 15

Posted 30 April 2019 - 11:50

56980923_347744202755310_409048671673549



#1712 Maxioos

Maxioos
  • Member

  • 3,920 posts
  • Joined: October 17

Posted 30 April 2019 - 17:59

He likes his drinks.

#1713 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 16,870 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 30 April 2019 - 18:13

He likes his drinks.

Which clearly ISN'T his Rich Energy p**s water!

 

After that shot:-

 

Romain:  Who was that guy anyway?

Jacques: Isn't he your team truck driver?



#1714 RSRally

RSRally
  • Member

  • 954 posts
  • Joined: January 15

Posted 07 May 2019 - 04:44

https://www.thecheck...ot-in-formula-1

#1715 Peat

Peat
  • Member

  • 4,422 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 07 May 2019 - 06:56

Well, Jake Nichol is well and truly in his thrall. 

 

Storey has something to say. And this most straight-talking, calls-it-as-he-sees-it businessman is going to do exactly that.

We are about premium British performance, but we aren’t pretentious,”

:stoned:



#1716 Anja

Anja
  • Member

  • 4,140 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 07 May 2019 - 08:36

 

 

Because we can’t be dismissed as just another energy drink; we’re not.

 

That's my favourite line  :rolleyes:  


Edited by Anja, 07 May 2019 - 08:36.


#1717 phrank

phrank
  • Member

  • 1,163 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 07 May 2019 - 11:31

The Haas team is really avoiding to use the Rich Energy/Whyte bikes logo any where, not on they team clothing, only small part on the car



#1718 Afterburner

Afterburner
  • RC Forum Host

  • 6,862 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 07 May 2019 - 14:25

If a guy who looks like he belongs in a ZZ Top cover band knocks on your door, don't open it.

Which would be an excellent idea except that even the guys from ZZ Top look like they belong in a ZZ Top cover band.

#1719 pdac

pdac
  • Member

  • 8,134 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 07 May 2019 - 21:43

 

The Bingham Riverside restaurant and hotel rents an optimal location on the banks of Richmond-upon-Thames ...

 

 

But the Rich Energy head office is in Richmond (in fact, that's where the 'Rich' comes from, according to the story Storey). So why were they not invited to see the prestigious Rich Energy HQ to see this multi-million pound operation?



Advertisement

#1720 New Britain

New Britain
  • Member

  • 2,259 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 07 May 2019 - 22:40

But the Rich Energy head office is in Richmond (in fact, that's where the 'Rich' comes from, according to the story Storey). So why were they not invited to see the prestigious Rich Energy HQ to see this multi-million pound operation?

Probably because the Rich Energy headquarters in Wandsworth, er "Richmond", does not have enough chairs for both William Storey and Jake Nichol.



#1721 New Britain

New Britain
  • Member

  • 2,259 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 09 May 2019 - 07:31

It is a revealing article, although perhaps not in the sense that Storey and Nichol hoped it would be.

 

So Storey has "flirted with pretty much any business opportunity you can imagine, from a Zimbabwean tobacco farm to IT management". Nichol appears to imagine that this breadth of activities demonstrates deep experience, whereas anyone who knows anything about business will recognise that all it demonstrates is a chancer who keeps trying new things because every preceding one was a failure.

 

Storey argues that Coca-Cola's and Red Bull's "hubris, arrogance and complacency" make them vulnerable to challenge from Rich Energy. Coca-Cola offer more than 3,500 different drinks under more than 500 different brands. Red Bull spend more than $1.5b a year on marketing. Do they sound like companies that are arrogantly and complacently sitting back and coasting?

 

Storey claims, "We have a better commercial proposition for retailers." Unfortunately, that appears not to include any product for the retailers to sell.

 

One of Storey's more laughable assertions is, “We don’t want to advertise to Red Bull exactly where their business is disappearing.” Like Red Bull GmbH cannot figure out where their sales are rising or falling?

 

The primary message, although he seems naively unaware of it, is Storey's defensiveness:

All of these so-called detractors have never met us, they don’t know who we are, they don’t know anything about us. They are basing their opinions on absolutely nothing, zero research. We are delighted to speak to you or anyone else who wants to and we’ll speak about the business, and when they do come and see us, they go: ‘Oh, blimey, crikey, this isn’t what we thought’, and we disavow them of these fantastical notions and we educate these people. That’s something as I can, we’ve always been very open with people, and we welcome scrutiny.”

“There’s a lot of ignorance, people don’t know that much information, so they just make stuff up in their head,” argues ('business manager' Tom) Vernon, before Storey, in his own inimitable style adds: “A lot of people who were around the Force India thing were casting all sorts of ludicrous statements about us, quite frankly now have egg on their faces. Because they’ve been brutally exposed as clueless, so hopefully those clueless people can start having a clue, and they can start seeing what is going on. And they now know that Rich Energy is a serious business.”

 

Buffalo Bill Storey doth protest too much. The more substance one has, the less one feels the need to boast about it. 



#1722 Pete_f1

Pete_f1
  • Member

  • 1,394 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 09 May 2019 - 12:11

Get a office somewhere and put some products on shop shelves for people to sell then you might start to be taken seriously.

#1723 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 49,071 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 09 May 2019 - 13:02

 

Storey claims, "We have a better commercial proposition for retailers." Unfortunately, that appears not to include any product for the retailers to sell.

 

 

On the plus side, it means retailers have more floor space.
 



#1724 BalanceUT

BalanceUT
  • Member

  • 1,977 posts
  • Joined: February 16

Posted 09 May 2019 - 18:42

Which would be an excellent idea except that even the guys from ZZ Top look like they belong in a ZZ Top cover band.

Shouldn't open the door for them, either. 



#1725 RSRally

RSRally
  • Member

  • 954 posts
  • Joined: January 15

Posted 11 May 2019 - 19:18

The primary message, although he seems naively unaware of it, is Storey's defensiveness:
All of these so-called detractors have never met us, they don’t know who we are, they don’t know anything about us. They are basing their opinions on absolutely nothing, zero research. We are delighted to speak to you or anyone else who wants to and we’ll speak about the business, and when they do come and see us, they go: ‘Oh, blimey, crikey, this isn’t what we thought’, and we disavow them of these fantastical notions and we educate these people. That’s something as I can, we’ve always been very open with people, and we welcome scrutiny.”
“There’s a lot of ignorance, people don’t know that much information, so they just make stuff up in their head,” argues ('business manager' Tom) Vernon, before Storey, in his own inimitable style adds: “A lot of people who were around the Force India thing were casting all sorts of ludicrous statements about us, quite frankly now have egg on their faces. Because they’ve been brutally exposed as clueless, so hopefully those clueless people can start having a clue, and they can start seeing what is going on. And they now know that Rich Energy is a serious business.”


To be fair I guess some of us were pretty surprised to see the car presented in RE colours and to still be in RE colours five races into the season..

#1726 FirstnameLastname

FirstnameLastname
  • Member

  • 668 posts
  • Joined: April 18

Posted 11 May 2019 - 20:06

Wonder if Rich will be unveiled as Title Sponsor for the Austrian GP this year, in place of Eyetime

#1727 Maustinsj

Maustinsj
  • Member

  • 4,355 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 11 May 2019 - 20:16

D6SBctOXsAY6raE.jpg

 

From Twitter: @Ste_F1

 

"Great to see Forrest Gump in the garage as a guest of Haas F1 1f3c3-1f3fb-200d-2642-fe0f.png"


Edited by Maustinsj, 11 May 2019 - 20:17.


#1728 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 16,870 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 11 May 2019 - 20:37

To be fair I guess some of us were pretty surprised to see the car presented in RE colours and to still be in RE colours five races into the season..

Clearly the cheque has cleared, so as far as Haas is concerned, it is business as usual.  Where the cheque came from remains the real mystery.



#1729 Silberpfeil

Silberpfeil
  • Member

  • 542 posts
  • Joined: October 18

Posted 12 May 2019 - 07:05

To be fair I guess some of us were pretty surprised to see the car presented in RE colours and to still be in RE colours five races into the season..


Honestly, I’m less surprised to see that the car is still in RE colours and more surprised to see that the car still has RE branding on it. ;)

And because the topic came up with my group chat of fellow F1 fans yesterday: Has anyone ever confronted RE about their curious lack of representative and/or representable business premisis? AFAIK Storey has only ever met with journalists at the Bingham Hotel.

#1730 danmills

danmills
  • Member

  • 1,192 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 12 May 2019 - 09:58

Business Manager Tom? Lol, didn't we already unveil him as a mere man, sorry, bearded teeny popper, on a desk manning calls.

I'm pretty sure that is the guy running the crappy photoshop efforts and social media posts.

Glorious job title but as much life experience managing businesses as you can fit in an empty peanut shell.

#1731 New Britain

New Britain
  • Member

  • 2,259 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 12 May 2019 - 10:59

Clearly the cheque has cleared, so as far as Haas is concerned, it is business as usual.  Where the cheque came from remains the real mystery.

Precisely.

Circumstantial evidence that money has changed hands is not the same as concrete evidence of anything beyond that.

Ninety million cans out of a rented desk ("Serviced offices from £315 a week") in Wandsworth?

This is the location of Rich Energy Ltd (and many other, unrelated small-time operators):

https://www.flexioff...road_sw15_id397



#1732 pdac

pdac
  • Member

  • 8,134 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 12 May 2019 - 11:02

Business Manager Tom? Lol, didn't we already unveil him as a mere man, sorry, bearded teeny popper, on a desk manning calls.

I'm pretty sure that is the guy running the crappy photoshop efforts and social media posts.

Glorious job title but as much life experience managing businesses as you can fit in an empty peanut shell.

 

Empty?



#1733 RSRally

RSRally
  • Member

  • 954 posts
  • Joined: January 15

Posted 12 May 2019 - 11:17

Precisely.
Circumstantial evidence that money has changed hands is not the same as concrete evidence of anything beyond that.
Ninety million cans out of a rented desk ("Serviced offices from £315 a week") in Wandsworth?
This is the location of Rich Energy Ltd (and many other, unrelated small-time operators):
https://www.flexioff...road_sw15_id397


Although I have my doubts about the 90 million cans claim, if you outsource your production and distribution isn't that quite feasible?

It is a bit strange that everything is run on a shoestring though, apart from a multi-million pound marketing budget!

#1734 New Britain

New Britain
  • Member

  • 2,259 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 12 May 2019 - 20:22

Although I have my doubts about the 90 million cans claim, if you outsource your production and distribution isn't that quite feasible?

It is a bit strange that everything is run on a shoestring though, apart from a multi-million pound marketing budget!

But even in the outsource scenario, are you going to run your entire business off a mobile phone? Offsite production might be one thing, but surely in order to operate on the scale that Storey claims they do they would need a large marketing department, a finance department, human resources, IT, logistics, customer relations - real people in real offices.

If this thing were truly a start-up, fair enough. That would explain a rented desk in a rented office. But if this thing were what they claim it is - having sold 90 millions cans in 40 countries and paying millions to sponsor a Formula One team out of internal cash flow - then it would be nothing like a shoestring operation.

Nobody cares what they actually are - another energy drink company...yawn - but people do care about truthfulness, and in this case there is a huge disparity between what they claim they are and what they appear to be.



#1735 pdac

pdac
  • Member

  • 8,134 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 12 May 2019 - 20:38

Although I have my doubts about the 90 million cans claim, if you outsource your production and distribution isn't that quite feasible?

It is a bit strange that everything is run on a shoestring though, apart from a multi-million pound marketing budget!

 

If they outsourced production and distribution, there would still be evidence of this stuff being sold to people in large numbers. But there is none. All we have is there own website shop, a listing on Amazon (with no evidence of mass sales) and a few pictures of bars having a few dozen (at most) cans on their shelves. Nothing that would suggest that they are shifting this stuff in earnest. So do you think they might be stockpiling 90 million cans somewhere?


Edited by pdac, 12 May 2019 - 20:39.


#1736 RSRally

RSRally
  • Member

  • 954 posts
  • Joined: January 15

Posted 13 May 2019 - 04:39

If they outsourced production and distribution, there would still be evidence of this stuff being sold to people in large numbers. But there is none. All we have is there own website shop, a listing on Amazon (with no evidence of mass sales) and a few pictures of bars having a few dozen (at most) cans on their shelves. Nothing that would suggest that they are shifting this stuff in earnest. So do you think they might be stockpiling 90 million cans somewhere?


I don't think you read my post..

#1737 RSRally

RSRally
  • Member

  • 954 posts
  • Joined: January 15

Posted 13 May 2019 - 04:43

But if this thing were what they claim it is - having sold 90 millions cans in 40 countries and paying millions to sponsor a Formula One team out of internal cash flow - then it would be nothing like a shoestring operation.


Has Storey claimed the sponsorship money comes from internal cash flow?

#1738 New Britain

New Britain
  • Member

  • 2,259 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 13 May 2019 - 07:28

Has Storey claimed the sponsorship money comes from internal cash flow?

He has made numerous statements relating to Rich Energy's buying Force India and Rich Energy's sponsoring Haas. Buying and sponsoring relate to the party that is paying

If what is really happening is that a third party is paying his/her own, not Rich Energy's, money to Haas in exchange for putting Rich Energy's logo on the car, then Rich Energy is not the sponsor. Rather, the third party is the sponsor.

Looked at another way, if Rich Energy really had sold 90 million cans in 40 countries (and IIRC that was an old reference; brought up-to-date, the number should be more than 100 million today), that probably would not have generated sufficient profit to buy and run Force India or to pay, say, $15m to sponsor Haas, but if you assumed that the added publicity would increase sales substantially then Rich Energy might have got there.

However, there is no evidence that Rich Energy has sold, or is about to sell, anything like the volumes claimed or that sufficient product is available even if the demand were there.

To make, promote and distribute 100 million cans of anything, and another 50 millions cans annually going forward, takes an organisation, infrastructure, a lot of people. Where is the infrastructure, where are the people? Clearly not in the UK and, one suspects, nowhere else on Earth.

Either this is the worst managed marketing campaign in history (huge expenditure on marketing with no product to sell, although there was no need to start the marketing prematurely - it's not like next year there will be no Formula One team looking for new sponsorship!), or this whole exercise is a means for someone to move money around for a reason that does not relate to energy drinks.



#1739 Anja

Anja
  • Member

  • 4,140 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 13 May 2019 - 08:13

I think the 90 million cans was supposed to be an order they just placed to be produced, not what they sold already. 


Edited by Anja, 13 May 2019 - 08:14.


Advertisement

#1740 New Britain

New Britain
  • Member

  • 2,259 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 13 May 2019 - 08:16

I think the 90 million cans was supposed to be an order they just placed to be produced, not what they sold already. 

If so, that would make Storey's claims even less credible.



#1741 RSRally

RSRally
  • Member

  • 954 posts
  • Joined: January 15

Posted 13 May 2019 - 08:27

I never thought the money for the Haas deal had come from energy drink sales though, but rather from investments Storey and/or his 'four sterling billionnaires' had made in the firm.

Perhaps there isn't anything particularly dodgy going on and Storey is just going about things in a strange way (ie. Build the brand and then start to build production and distribution afterwards)

Don't know how much money he has in the bank but it could be he only got enough investment for the first Haas pay cheque and is now desparately hoping he can build sales enough in order to pay the next one.

#1742 Pete_f1

Pete_f1
  • Member

  • 1,394 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 13 May 2019 - 09:37

Maybe it's 'hype now, sell later'?

#1743 Rinehart

Rinehart
  • Member

  • 13,579 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 13 May 2019 - 09:48

Clearly the cheque has cleared, so as far as Haas is concerned, it is business as usual.  Where the cheque came from remains the real mystery.

Just to play devils advocate, it is not necessarily the case that some or all of the money has changed hands as yet. There are loads of exotic ways to construct a deal, for instance the BWT sponsorship of FI last year was actually part of a LOAN arrangement and other details have involved equity stakes... Maybe Gene is now a shareholder of Rich Energy, who knows... 



#1744 Rinehart

Rinehart
  • Member

  • 13,579 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 13 May 2019 - 10:09

Maybe it's 'hype now, sell later'?

Precisely, but a global awareness push of a new product via F1 sponsorship would drive demand that you would want to meet rather quickly whilst the iron was hot so to speak...  otherwise, potential customers, being rather fickle people, will get bored waiting and move onto the next shiny new thing. It would also massively undermine the value of your marketing investment. Apparently this is a collection of savvy entrepreneurs who would know... you sell around hype, not indifference!

 

So the question is, what is an acceptable delay between "launching" a product and being able to sell it? Is the product even being manufactured at scale yet... and then how long does it take to distribute it? (I read they signed a UK distribution deal with Rock Point Leisure in November, and they are not known in distribution circles)... if they are building infrastructure there will be a significant lag. Then looking at a can of Red Bull, its sell by date is 6 months from manufacture... so if these 90m cans exist but aren't sold yet, they're gonna need to go in the bin soon... 

 

I would suggest that if there is not solid evidence that RE is widely available by the middle of the summer, it would be time to be very sceptical indeed... and that's being quite generous. 



#1745 New Britain

New Britain
  • Member

  • 2,259 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 13 May 2019 - 13:53

Just to play devils advocate, it is not necessarily the case that some or all of the money has changed hands as yet. There are loads of exotic ways to construct a deal, for instance the BWT sponsorship of FI last year was actually part of a LOAN arrangement and other details have involved equity stakes... Maybe Gene is now a shareholder of Rich Energy, who knows... 

For BWT/FI, it was a loan, but a loan normally is and in this case was when the party with the cash advances it to the party needing the cash. The first stage in a loan is the same as the first stage in the purchase of sponsorship. The difference comes about later in the "services rendered"/repayment stage.

It is true that Haas could have received equity in Rich Energy (or related entity), although with Steiner having said a couple of months ago that Haas had already received funds, one inferred that cash rather than equity was involved.



#1746 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 28,117 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 13 May 2019 - 14:05

I have some non-Is Rich Energy Real? style questions:

 

1a. Why do we need another kind of energy drink?

1b. Isn't this all a bit 2011?

2. Why have Rich Energy entered the market between 10 and 25 years later than the competition? (See 1b)

3. What exactly are Rich Energy doing differently to Red Bull and Monster Energy, who are also backing high profile racing series? (See 1a)

 

Their marketing is incredibly effective at getting members of the Autosport Forum to think about them every day, but I do wonder what the rest of the public is supposed to think.



#1747 Maxioos

Maxioos
  • Member

  • 3,920 posts
  • Joined: October 17

Posted 13 May 2019 - 14:33

I have some non-Is Rich Energy Real? style questions:

 

1a. Why do we need another kind of energy drink?

1b. Isn't this all a bit 2011?

2. Why have Rich Energy entered the market between 10 and 25 years later than the competition? (See 1b)

3. What exactly are Rich Energy doing differently to Red Bull and Monster Energy, who are also backing high profile racing series? (See 1a)

 

Their marketing is incredibly effective at getting members of the Autosport Forum to think about them every day, but I do wonder what the rest of the public is supposed to think.

 

I don't get that at all. 35 pages on a forum and some Reddit topics, a very view articles, that's it. That's not, not even close towards "incredibly effective" in my books. Than they would have dozens and dozens of "costumer made" (free advertising) YouTube video's and hundreds and hundreds of articles about them. For sure over the many month this is already playing, but it's marginal and little from all aspects imo..

 

Current exposure result is absolute minimum that should be expected for a new F1 team title sponsor, nothing "incredible effective" at all, rather, incredible poor marketing.



#1748 New Britain

New Britain
  • Member

  • 2,259 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 13 May 2019 - 14:43

I have some non-Is Rich Energy Real? style questions:

 

1a. Why do we need another kind of energy drink?

1b. Isn't this all a bit 2011?

2. Why have Rich Energy entered the market between 10 and 25 years later than the competition? (See 1b)

3. What exactly are Rich Energy doing differently to Red Bull and Monster Energy, who are also backing high profile racing series? (See 1a)

 

Their marketing is incredibly effective at getting members of the Autosport Forum to think about them every day, but I do wonder what the rest of the public is supposed to think.

1a. One doubts that the market is too mature to allow new entrants. Examples include the relatively recent proliferation of craft beers and specialist coffees - both based on beverages that were already centuries-old and in use daily across most of the world.

In order to succeed in that game, however, one needs either a unique product that can be noticeably differentiated in a local market and then promoted and distributed more widely, or an absolutely massive budget to be exploited nationally/internationally, or ideally both. Rich Energy appears to have neither.

 

2. As to why now, rather than 10 or 25 years ago, I think it's fair to say that the protagonist does not appear to be a visionary, focused businessman such as Robert Woodruff was and Dieter Mateschitz is. After Storey's previous unrelated business ventures (appear to have) failed, he probably overheard someone in a pub remark on how rich Mateschitz was and then fantasised, "Gee, I could do that."



#1749 TheGoldenStoffel

TheGoldenStoffel
  • Member

  • 487 posts
  • Joined: November 18

Posted 14 May 2019 - 14:59

Apparently they lost the court case about the logo.

 

 

 

Today the judgment was released in the claim brought by @WhyteBikes against us in respect of our stag logo. We are disappointed with the judgment & the findings of the judge which run counter to our submissions. We are considering all of our legal options including appeal

 

https://twitter.com/...309045050388481



#1750 Gemini

Gemini
  • Member

  • 3,668 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 14 May 2019 - 15:24

https://www.autospor...-case-over-logo