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What is 'Rich Energy'?


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#1751 statman

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 15:31

the beard will NOT be happy about this!



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#1752 BillyWhizz

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 15:32

Isn't this whole shady affair actually damaging to the HAAS F1 brand?

 

I know that sponsors usually always have clauses in their contracts with their brand ambassadors to ensure that they conduct themselves at all times in a manner which does not bring the brand into disrepute.

 

Rich Energy have been under a cloud of suspicion since the company stepped up as title sponsor for HAAS, and with this plagiarising another corporation's logo and being found in breach of that brand's IP/copyright, they are like a bad smell hanging round that team.



#1753 RSRally

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 15:42

So it was Staxoweb whodunnit.. but why on earth would they do such a thing on purpose? Just asking for trouble.

The Autosport article says Haas will have to remove the logo from their cars and website, which isn't that hard to do. But I guess Storey will need to come up with a redesign pretty sharpish. Presume the Haas cars will run with 'Rich Energy' but without the stag in Monaco.

#1754 Silberpfeil

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 15:44

Well, that about sums the Beardman up, doesn’t it?

‘Judge Melissa Clarke found Rich Energy’s Williams Storey “was fully involved in the design process and knowingly copied” the logo. The judge also raised questions about Storey’s reliability as a witness.

“Mr Storey provided different and inconsistent accounts of the development of [the Rich Energy logo],” she wrote in her judgement. “He often did not answer questions directly, preferring to make speeches about his vision for his business or alternatively seeking to evade questions by speaking in generalities or in the third person plural. He only answered several questions when I intervened.”’

Source: https://www.racefans...es-court-rules/

#1755 bogi

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 15:49

Why did he used stag as a logo instead beard? That beard is more memorable than generic logo.

#1756 Myrvold

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 16:30

Isn't this whole shady affair actually damaging to the HAAS F1 brand?

 

I know that sponsors usually always have clauses in their contracts with their brand ambassadors to ensure that they conduct themselves at all times in a manner which does not bring the brand into disrepute.

 

Rich Energy have been under a cloud of suspicion since the company stepped up as title sponsor for HAAS, and with this plagiarising another corporation's logo and being found in breach of that brand's IP/copyright, they are like a bad smell hanging round that team.

 

That would be rich(pun, not intended). Haas himself have been jailed for things that's arguably worse than IP infringements. So that would be highly unlikely to be the case.



#1757 Nathan

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 16:33

Is this why little to no product has ever been sold?

 

"the Claimant is entitled to injunctive relief and for damages or an account of profits at its election."



#1758 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 16:35

They wanted to put themselves up against Redbull so went looking for an animal they could use in that quest. ‘Who needs wings when we give you horns’ or something to that effect. Still stupid as it’s meant to be an energy drink not a viagra substitute.

#1759 cpbell

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 16:58

Apparently they lost the court case about the logo.

 

 

https://twitter.com/...309045050388481

How can they think they have been dealt a bad hand, I wonder?



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#1760 New Britain

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 18:16

Well, that about sums the Beardman up, doesn’t it?

‘Judge Melissa Clarke found Rich Energy’s Williams Storey “was fully involved in the design process and knowingly copied” the logo. The judge also raised questions about Storey’s reliability as a witness.

“Mr Storey provided different and inconsistent accounts of the development of [the Rich Energy logo],” she wrote in her judgement. “He often did not answer questions directly, preferring to make speeches about his vision for his business or alternatively seeking to evade questions by speaking in generalities or in the third person plural. He only answered several questions when I intervened.”’

Source: https://www.racefans...es-court-rules/

Fantastic.

 

The judge also said:

“I am satisfied that some of Mr Storey’s evidence was incorrect or misleading and that he was involved in the manufacture of documents during the course of litigation to provide additional support for the defendants’ case.”

 

Also known as forgery.



#1761 Maxioos

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 18:25

Apparently they lost the court case about the logo.
 

 
https://twitter.com/...309045050388481


Wow, had looked, couldn't find the decision. Couldn't even find whole case anymore in the court schedule begin this month.

This is what I predicted, while ridiculed multiple times for it. It's exactly what I suspected, no use in any way or form. Other market doesn't matter in global brand/logo and proven use/ownership goes before whatever registration.

Curious if the once that said i was wrong will/have (haven't read all) respond(ed).

#1762 eibyyz

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 18:35

Still stupid as it’s meant to be an energy drink not a viagra substitute.

 

That'll be the next version.  :-)



#1763 RacingMonk

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 18:35

William Storey = David Thieme

#1764 cpbell

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 18:46

William Storey = David Thieme

Feels rather reminiscent to me.



#1765 Maxioos

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 18:46

Fantastic.
 
The judge also said:
“I am satisfied that some of Mr Storey’s evidence was incorrect or misleading and that he was involved in the manufacture of documents during the course of litigation to provide additional support for the defendants’ case.”
 
Also known as forgery.


The case was against the company and against him personal. Curious how she will judge him, if he also personally gets consequence.

The judge in the Force India case didn't believe Storey's claims and "evidence" and this judge either, but lying against a judge is never smart.

"Entitled to injunctive relief and for damages or an account of profits at its election"

That's Normally the end of any (starting) business. What is the value of the logo 5 GP'S on a F1 car? It's now not what Haas paid for it, it's what value Whyte legally can give too it, that could/should be much higher. And then all images, videos spread over the internet have to be found and removed on RE cost. Etc. Etc. They should be bankrupt within 24 hours. With such verdict, appeal will have no or extreme little chance. Normally every business partner and for sure every bank at this moment is reconsidering their collaboration.


Edited by Maxioos, 14 May 2019 - 18:48.


#1766 New Britain

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 18:47

All is not necessarily lost for William Storey and his quest for an animal logo to which he feels a connection.

Richmond Park also has a sizable rat population.

 

image2.jpg



#1767 Maxioos

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 18:53

It's also a possible ++ for Haas. If they have (big part of) their payment secured but RE company goes broke, they can possible sell same spot twice. They can't change Title name, so price wouldn't be that high, but with discount still could mean couple million extra in budget.



#1768 New Britain

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 19:05

It's also a possible ++ for Haas. If they have (big part of) their payment secured but RE company goes broke, they can possible sell same spot twice. They can't change Title name, so price wouldn't be that high, but with discount still could mean couple million extra in budget.

Maybe, although it would be kind of surprising if "Rich Energy" (i.e., whoever was sending funds to Haas) had paid everything in advance.



#1769 Silberpfeil

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 19:06

Well, that about sums the Beardman up, doesn’t it?

‘Judge Melissa Clarke found Rich Energy’s Williams Storey “was fully involved in the design process and knowingly copied” the logo. The judge also raised questions about Storey’s reliability as a witness.

“Mr Storey provided different and inconsistent accounts of the development of [the Rich Energy logo],” she wrote in her judgement. “He often did not answer questions directly, preferring to make speeches about his vision for his business or alternatively seeking to evade questions by speaking in generalities or in the third person plural. He only answered several questions when I intervened.”’

Source: https://www.racefans...es-court-rules/


From the complete court document, here’s how the quote from above continues:

‘He had a tendency to make impressive statements, which on further investigation or consideration were not quite what they seemed. For example, when Mr Wyand in cross-examination tried to understand his evidence about the sales figures of Rich Energy drinks, and put to him that he had been quoted in the press in February 2019 as saying that the First Defendant had produced 90 million cans, Mr Storey explained that it had produced 90 million cans, but had not yet filled and sold them. He said he would have to check the figures, but in 2018 he thought the First Defendant had filled and sold “circa 3 million cans” of Rich Energy drink.’

#1770 pdac

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 19:09

the beard will NOT be happy about this!

 

I'm sure he'll be doodling something right now. It probably will be a totally different colour to the rest of the branding and will use completely different fonts but, hey.



#1771 pdac

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 19:13

Wow, had looked, couldn't find the decision. Couldn't even find whole case anymore in the court schedule begin this month.

This is what I predicted, while ridiculed multiple times for it. It's exactly what I suspected, no use in any way or form. Other market doesn't matter in global brand/logo and proven use/ownership goes before whatever registration.

Curious if the once that said i was wrong will/have (haven't read all) respond(ed).

 

I always thought you were right on this one.



#1772 Maxioos

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 19:14

From the complete court document, here’s how the quote from above continues:

‘He had a tendency to make impressive statements, which on further investigation or consideration were not quite what they seemed. For example, when Mr Wyand in cross-examination tried to understand his evidence about the sales figures of Rich Energy drinks, and put to him that he had been quoted in the press in February 2019 as saying that the First Defendant had produced 90 million cans, Mr Storey explained that it had produced 90 million cans, but had not yet filled and sold them. He said he would have to check the figures, but in 2018 he thought the First Defendant had filled and sold “circa 3 million cans” of Rich Energy drink.’

 

Do you have a link or have i overlooked it?

 

But this makes all more sense. "he thought ... 3 million" (How can't you know for sure? can number and profit he shouldn't "thought" he should know as fact) well, from 90 towards 3 is 2,7% Well logic is take 2,7% of the 3 million and we have real sold figure. That would be 81.000. That would sound more believable. And likely sold 10% and 90% marketing deals.


Edited by Maxioos, 14 May 2019 - 19:17.


#1773 pdac

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 19:14

All is not necessarily lost for William Storey and his quest for an animal logo to which he feels a connection.

Richmond Park also has a sizable rat population.

 

image2.jpg

 

Probably one or two of these in his beard too.



#1774 pdac

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 19:15

So much for building your brand before going to market.



#1775 Silberpfeil

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 19:23

Do you have a link or have i overlooked it?


The complete document can be found here: https://cdn.shopify....000235.pdf?2319

#1776 pdac

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 19:26

From the complete court document, here’s how the quote from above continues:

‘He had a tendency to make impressive statements, which on further investigation or consideration were not quite what they seemed. For example, when Mr Wyand in cross-examination tried to understand his evidence about the sales figures of Rich Energy drinks, and put to him that he had been quoted in the press in February 2019 as saying that the First Defendant had produced 90 million cans, Mr Storey explained that it had produced 90 million cans, but had not yet filled and sold them. He said he would have to check the figures, but in 2018 he thought the First Defendant had filled and sold “circa 3 million cans” of Rich Energy drink.’

 

So the "90 million cans" claim is just as stated (made the the cans, but not filled them). More than most others, you really have to read no more into what he says than is implied by the exact words that he uses.



#1777 Maxioos

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 19:27

The complete document can be found here: https://cdn.shopify....000235.pdf?2319

 

Thanks.



#1778 Maxioos

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 19:29

So the "90 million cans" claim is just as stated (made the the cans, but not filled them). More than most others, you really have to read no more into what he says than is implied by the exact words that he uses.

 

Hasn't he not also claimed sold and in 40 countries? Quite sure they have.



#1779 danmills

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 19:30

Apparently they lost the court case about the logo.

 

 

https://twitter.com/...309045050388481

 

Buffalo Bill, call me. I've got your Plan B and marketing strategy sorted. Better yet, I'm a one man band so I'll take up no desk space in your HQ. I don't even like Richmond sausages. YOU literally are the brand. Use it. 

 

50593860-298990330810762-793827729287096

 

49933906-296759071023661-419172972407051

 

50903783-254837905417092-663316427761735


Edited by danmills, 14 May 2019 - 19:35.


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#1780 phrank

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 19:52

Wonder if we see changed to the Haas car tomorrow at testing



#1781 StanBarrett2

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 20:03

Wonder if we see changed to the Haas car tomorrow at testing

The logo was on the car today.

They would only have to remove the 'horn' logo fro the wing end plates and the nose cone.

 

The air box fin 'horn'  isn't really the full thing ?



#1782 SophieB

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 20:08

Always slightly surprised to see how slick the teams can be to make these sort of last minute changes. I'm hoping for something like this sort of editing but I know I'm doomed to disappointment:

 

5zJj3sX.jpg



#1783 danmills

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 20:13

It almost makes sense why none of the teamwear has the horns on, and it isn't an integral part of the livery. I think they knew this had a high chance of happening as we predicted, and this was damage limitation. 



#1784 pdac

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 20:20

Hasn't he not also claimed sold and in 40 countries? Quite sure they have.

 

Were the statements connected? Maybe he's sold all sorts of things and the number of different countries he's sold things in (not just Rich Energy) comes to 40. Or maybe he's sold 40 times to people in the UK, so that's 40 countries (perfectly valid as long as you omit the word "different" when describing the countries).



#1785 pdac

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 20:22

Wonder if we see changed to the Haas car tomorrow at testing

 

They may well have had the alternatives ready for when this, inevitable, judgement came.



#1786 BalanceUT

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 21:03

Isn't this whole shady affair actually damaging to the HAAS F1 brand?

 

I know that sponsors usually always have clauses in their contracts with their brand ambassadors to ensure that they conduct themselves at all times in a manner which does not bring the brand into disrepute.

 

Rich Energy have been under a cloud of suspicion since the company stepped up as title sponsor for HAAS, and with this plagiarising another corporation's logo and being found in breach of that brand's IP/copyright, they are like a bad smell hanging round that team.

Yes. I couldn't possibly watch HAAS F1 after this court outcome. Of  course, I never watched HAAS F1 before this was announced, either. However, I can watch Haas F1 just fine, just as I have since their launch. 

 

More seriously... Haas F1 is in it to market machine tools to the world. The people who are buying machine tools are probably not worried a bit about the shortcomings of the company who bought the right to color scheme the car and put a logo on it that's smaller than the HAAS logo by Haas Automation. The color scheme is still quite nice, I think. Black, gold, and silver.  :up:



#1787 BalanceUT

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 21:07

Well, that about sums the Beardman up, doesn’t it?

‘Judge Melissa Clarke found Rich Energy’s Williams Storey “was fully involved in the design process and knowingly copied” the logo. The judge also raised questions about Storey’s reliability as a witness.

“Mr Storey provided different and inconsistent accounts of the development of [the Rich Energy logo],” she wrote in her judgement. “He often did not answer questions directly, preferring to make speeches about his vision for his business or alternatively seeking to evade questions by speaking in generalities or in the third person plural. He only answered several questions when I intervened.”’

Source: https://www.racefans...es-court-rules/

It's like the judge has been reading the "What is Rich Energy?" thread on Autosport forums. LOL!



#1788 BalanceUT

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 21:19

Wow, had looked, couldn't find the decision. Couldn't even find whole case anymore in the court schedule begin this month.

This is what I predicted, while ridiculed multiple times for it. It's exactly what I suspected, no use in any way or form. Other market doesn't matter in global brand/logo and proven use/ownership goes before whatever registration.

Curious if the once that said i was wrong will/have (haven't read all) respond(ed).

I really don't recall you being ridiculed. I do recall people having some different opinions about how this would come out in the wash. 

 

If someone disagreed with you or argued that the two companies might come to an agreement, that's not ridiculing you. That's just having a different opinion. 

 

At this point, you are correct and I'm not a bit surprised by the outcome. I'd be stunned that any appeal would be successful. They'd best just save their money on legal fees and put it into paying an actual marketing company to design a proper logo... like F1 did... oh... anyway, pay a  professional, that's what I always say.  :stoned:



#1789 danmills

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 21:23

It's pretty major if they already had a billion cans all made and in transit in stores across the world.

But the blessing could be they don't, so damage is minimal.

Is this why there is so little product out there? Or have they made a bad gamble on the outcome?

 

I wonder what happens to existing products under the lawsuit. Do they need to be destroyed or pulled from supply until further notice? If they can't run the horn logo, that surely applies to any sales of the product itself. And all social media imagery. I mean, does the entire history of that need erasing? 

 

Do they resleeve the cans with hornless stickers? I've seen it done with other products.


Edited by danmills, 14 May 2019 - 21:28.


#1790 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 21:26

Full judgement only 58 pages of reading https://cdn.shopify....000235.pdf?2319

Finally some justice for originality.

Glad this sham company got a slap.

#1791 Sterzo

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 21:29

This judgement is a massive blow for Storey: his hat has been declared illegal.



#1792 baddog

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 21:34

Oh noes, a corporate argument over logo design! 



#1793 Maxioos

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 21:36

I really don't recall you being ridiculed. I do recall people having some different opinions about how this would come out in the wash. 

 

If someone disagreed with you or argued that the two companies might come to an agreement, that's not ridiculing you. That's just having a different opinion. 

 

At this point, you are correct and I'm not a bit surprised by the outcome. I'd be stunned that any appeal would be successful. They'd best just save their money on legal fees and put it into paying an actual marketing company to design a proper logo... like F1 did... oh... anyway, pay a  professional, that's what I always say.  :stoned:

 

I would really be surprised they could survive the costs surrounding this. It's not just changing some logo's, it's compensating Whyte's loses and costs. 

 

They even now still have it on their page/social media. They where also not (good) prepared for such outcome. Than they had changed whole look and feel in a day. They should have been prepared for such outcome, such amateurism. 

 

There isn't much to get for Whyte i think, it's interesting if they go under and it (what? lease car?, sponsor deals? toxic brand rights?) goes on auction, if and who buys the "RE brand" rights.  



#1794 New Britain

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 21:44

Full judgement only 58 pages of reading https://cdn.shopify....000235.pdf?2319

Finally some justice for originality.

Glad this sham company got a slap.

The judge pretty much obliterates Storey's claims. There is no chance that he will appeal - that would just be digging a deeper hole.

The beauty of it is that the judgment is against Rich Energy Ltd and William Storey and the design company owned by Storey's pal Sean Kelly, who helped concoct the design. Once the size of the award is decided, even if Rich Energy went bust the other two would have to come up with any unpaid balance or they also would go bust.

 

One of the interesting things that came out in the trial was that, contrary to Storey's claim, the name "Rich Energy" had nothing to do with his affection for Richmond, Surrey. Rather, the name was coined by Drazen Majstrovic, the inventor of the drink formula, two years before Storey got involved.

 

The judgment also reveals that, in a change from its most recent Companies House filing, Storey owns 100% of the equity of Rich Energy Ltd.

What surprised me was that there was no mention of any other ltd or offshore companies affiliated with Rich Energy Ltd. That does not necessarily mean that there are no affiliates, but it may indeed be the case that this paltry piss-ant outfit Rich Energy Ltd is the whole enterprise. Which again raises the question: from where did the payment to Haas come?



#1795 BalanceUT

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 21:45

This judgement is a massive blow for Storey: his hat has been declared illegal.

In my imagination, he's sitting in a toilet stall at the Richmond office block, tears rolling down his face as he scrolls through pictures on his phone to find another one to say, "Drink Rich Energy Here!" and wondering what he's doing with his life now that he can't wear his antler hat. 



#1796 phrank

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 21:49

Will be interesting what Haas F1 will do now, looks like the sponsor is falling apart, staying attached to Rich Energy can be damaging for getting other sponsors on board. Wonder if they can terminate the sponsorship deal from their side. They will read the verdict and see this is only the tip



#1797 BalanceUT

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 21:59

Wow, had looked, couldn't find the decision. Couldn't even find whole case anymore in the court schedule begin this month.

This is what I predicted, while ridiculed multiple times for it. It's exactly what I suspected, no use in any way or form. Other market doesn't matter in global brand/logo and proven use/ownership goes before whatever registration.

Curious if the once that said i was wrong will/have (haven't read all) respond(ed).

I looked back at the very start of this thread and this particular issue of the logo was brought up in December. You had a strong reaction about what it might imply about the company's legitimacy. A reply to your post was arguable one that ridiculed you. My apologies for implying otherwise a few posts up. The post that could be construed as ridiculing: https://forums.autos...ergy/?p=8611061 and the specific sentence. 

No need to piss your pants like the whole world is collapsing around you.

Edited by BalanceUT, 14 May 2019 - 22:05.


#1798 RacingGreen

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 22:02

The complete document can be found here: https://cdn.shopify....000235.pdf?2319

 

Wow thanks for the link - that is some document. Judge Melissa Clarke does everything but ask the Crown Prosecution Service to start a case against Storey for perjury. 



#1799 BalanceUT

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 22:04

Will be interesting what Haas F1 will do now, looks like the sponsor is falling apart, staying attached to Rich Energy can be damaging for getting other sponsors on board. Wonder if they can terminate the sponsorship deal from their side. They will read the verdict and see this is only the tip

 

Just the tip, you say? 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=jS4w5S-Jdb4


Edited by BalanceUT, 14 May 2019 - 22:05.


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#1800 Myrvold

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 22:07

Depending on how many that visits the website. It might actually be more damaging for Haas to be on whyte bikes' webpage.

https://whyte.bike/

There is absolutely no way to separate Rich Energy and Haas there.
"
RICH ENERGY HAAS F1 TEAM TITLE SPONSOR LOSES COURT CASE FOR COPYING WHYTE BIKES’ STAG LOGO"

"As can be seen below, copied from the Court’s Judgment, the similarity between the logos is staggering..." Pun very much indended there from Whyte I guess!


Edited by Myrvold, 14 May 2019 - 22:08.