44 replies to this topic

[CSGPR]

Hi Everybody

Last month I’ve put a tread looking for the remaining Shadows DN5 & the one and only DN7. And it turned out far better than I’ve have expected and many thanks to all who have contributed to my search for these cars.

The success have encourage me to try it once more. But this time I’m looking for the remaining Shadows DN1.

I know that DN1/1A was written off by Jackie Olivier at Zolder and George Follmer took care of #2A in Monaco then he had a come together with Merzario.

It could look like that the #4A is retained by Don Nichols, but my information here is some years old, Then I’ve have absolutely no idea of the whereabouts of the #5A & #6A
But David Mckinney have pointed out that Juan Gonzalez raced a DN1 at Laguna Seca. But is there anyone who knows which.

The DN1/3A was sold as a kit to Graham Hill’s Embassy Racing team, and the car is in the United States, and that all I know.

So if there are someone who can supply some information on the four remaining DN1’s I would be very pleased. Thank you


Kind regards

Christian

[fines]

DN1/2A is mostly given as the s/n of the replacement chassis Jarier raced at Interlagos in '74 after the Buenos Aires shunt in DN1/6A, which was possibly written off then. Since DN1/2A is also the s/n of the car written off by Follmer at Monaco '73, I would think the Jarier car was actually DN1/5A, renamed for customs reasons, since the chassis was hastened over to Brazil at the last minute and there would've been papers for DN1/2A, as Shadow entered the race in '73 but did not appear.

[Allen Brown]

What about DN1/7A and DN1/8A?

Allen

[CSGPR]

Hi again


Have there been a #8A it's don't have any rigster anywhere

regards

Christian

[fines]

Allen, I've seen your entries about 7A and 8A on your website, but never anywhere else!

[CSGPR]

Hi again

I have seen the DN1/7A in Doug Nye's Autocourse "History og the Grand Prix car" 1966-91. In this very fine book Doug Nye say that Jarier drove the #7A in Argentina, but that he drove #5A i Brazil.

But if you look in the Autocourse from 1974/75 is says that Jarier
drove #6A in Argentina and #2A in Brazil, but thats was the car Follmer wrote off in Monaco,

Motor Sport agree with the #6A story in Argentina but more strange also with the #2A and I've don't have the numbers og Austsport from that year.

In Paul Sheldon's book he support the #6A story from Argentina, but that Jarier drove the #5A in Brasil.

With that in mind I don't know what to say. Doug Nye is normaly a man you can relay on - but so is Motor Sport and Autocourse.

Is there anybody out there who owns a Shadow DN1 with the chassis plate with the No.7A please speek up

kind Regards


Christian

[Roger Clark]

Autosport says Jarier drove 6A in Argetina, 2A in Brazil. Motor sport said that after Argentina, Alan Rees flew home to collect DN1/2A complete except for the engine bay, rear wheels, rear suspension, engine and gearbox. These undamaged components from the crashed car (6A) were mated to the new front half in time for first practice. Autosport referred to "a new-old tub from England".

[CSGPR]

Thank you Roger


That must be it. and it sounds right. But that will mean that *I'm looking for 4 car and not 3.

The cars are #2A, #4A, #5A and #6A.


Anybody who knows who orgenice the historic Formula ! race in the United Stats.


Kind regards


Christian

[fines]

German mag 'rally racing' also says DN1/2A, but I'd still think it was 5A, renamed for customs reason. Just speculation, though, but if 2A wasn't totalled at Monaco, why wouldn't it be used for the remainder of the '73 season, maybe just as a spare? OTOH, 5A was well and alive in early '74, or is there any doubt (test crash, cannibalized)?

[Roger Clark]

Like fines, I can't understand why 2A wasn't rescued in 1973 if it was usable at all. I also don'tknow what hapend to 5A. Folmer drove it at Watkins Glen and finished. I can'timagine it was used much for testing after that. One possiblity lies in Autosport's statement that Rees returned from England with a "new-old" tub. I took this to be an unused tub to the DN1 design. It may be that they used 2A paperwork to get it through customs. They had a lot of trouble getting it through customes although these things may or may not have been related. This may also explain why Allen Brown refers to 7A. It would be interesting to know his source for that.

[Allen Brown]

Christian

Sorry about the obscure reference to 7A and 8A. I intended to explain it all, but I've been out of town for a few days.

The thing to remember is that the chassis plate on the car is not necessarily the same number that Jenks reported in Motor Sport. Many other journalists took their lead from Jenks so you will see the same numbers in many places. However, Shadow kept using the 1A and 2A chassis plates much later in the season. So you won't find any car with plates 7A and 8A.

I visited Nichols at Salina in 1994 and he spent several hours with me explaining which car did what. He also showed me (using 7A, then in his workshop but carrying the 2A plate) how to tell an Oliver car from a Follmer car - the tub had been beaten out a few inches wider to accomodate the typically American-sized behind of Mr Follmer.

The basic history of each car is as follows (the link will take you to the race history):

1A: written off Belgium 1973 (replica later built - now in UK)
2A: written off Monaco 1973 (practice)
3A: Hill - several owners later - David Rose 1996
4A: to Jarier as a show car in lieu of salary - several owners later - Kelvin Lambert as at 1998.
5A: to Roger Springett for Shellsport G8 - several owners later - Juan Gonzales 1996
6A: to Roger Springett for Shellsport G8 - I lost track of this car in the late 1980's
7A: still with Nichols in 1994
8A: stolen in Brazil and not recovered.

Can you add anything to this? Where is 3A now?

Allen

[CSGPR]

Hi Allen

Thank you very much, for your reply once more it's very detailed and your help is very much appreciated.

Regarding your question about the whereabouts of the #3A I can't help you because before your answer I didn't know anything about the whereabout of all the DN1's except that Juan Gonzales owned on of them.

But if my research bring me any closer to the #3A I will let you know


Best regards

Christian

[Roger Clark]

Allen,

There are a number of things I still don't understand about the DN1s.

(1) what happend to 5A after Monza? It seems they went to the trouble of repairing it after Follmer's Nurburgring accident but abandoned it after one race.

(2) What chassis number did 7A carry in Canada and USA? It would seem plausible that it carried 5A as most of the journalists present seemed to think that's what it was, but you have seen 7A carrying 2A. If this is so, do you know when it was changed?

(3) Why did they go to the trouble of building a new DN1 (8A) for Argentina when the DN3s were on their way and they had 4A, 6A, 7A and possibly 5A available?

(4) Did 7A and 8a have the longer wheelbase and revised rear suspension of 6A?

[CSGPR]

Hi Guys

I have been looking for the car specifications of the Shadow DN1 from 1973. So if there should be one of you out there who owns a copy of Autocourse 1973/74 I would appreciate some help on this matter very much.

Best regards

[Rainer Nyberg]

I don't have the specs on the DN1, but I can offer the DN3 for those who are interested...

DN3 Technical Specifications (1974)

DESIGN TEAM
Chief Designer : Tony Southgate
CHASSIS
Type : Sheet-aluminiuim monocoque
Body : Glass-fibre reinforced plastics with carbon-fibre used in higher-stress areas.
ENGINE
Type Ford DFV V8
Type : 90-deg V8, gear-driven DOHC, 4VPC
Capacity : 2993 cc
Bore x Stroke : 85.70 x 64.80 mm
Max Power : 460bhp @ 10250 rpm
Fuel system : Lucas injection
Ignition : Lucas OPUS
Engine weight : 165,5kg
Cooling system : Water and oil-radiatorsby Marston-Excelsior (AVS designed)
Fuel : UOP
TRANSMISSION
Gearbox : 5-speed Hewland FL-200
SUSPENSION
Front and rear : Double wishbones, outboard Armstrong coil-over-dampers. Anti-roll bar.
Rear : Lower wishbone, top link, radius arms, outboard Armstrong coil-over dampers.
BRAKES
Front : Vented Lockheed discs, inboard
Rear : Vented Lockheed discs, outboard
WHEELS
Front : 11 x 13” (or 10 x 12”) AVS cast magnesium
Rear : 17 x 13” AVS cast magnesium
TYRES
Front and rear : Goodyear
STEERING
Type : Shadow rack and pinion.
INTERIOR
Cockpit : Smiths gauges
DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase : 2670 mm
Front track : 1470 mm
Rear track : 1520 mm
Length : 4780 mm
Height : 1330 mm
Ground clearance : 76 mm
Weight : 574 kg
Fuel cell : 196 litres (Marston Excelsior)

[Rob Ryder]

The data you wanted on the DN1 from 1973 Autocourse...

DN1 Technical Specifications (1973)

DESIGN TEAM
Chief Designer : Tony Southgate

CHASSIS
Type : Sheet-aluminiuim monocoque
Body : Glass-fibre reinforced plastics with carbon-fibre used in higher-stress areas.

ENGINE
Type Ford DFV V8
Type : 90-deg V8, gear-driven DOHC, 4VPC
Capacity : 2993 cc
Bore x Stroke : 85.60 x 64.80 mm
Compression Ratio: 11:1
Max Power : 460bhp @ 10250 rpm
Valve Sizes: 1.32in x 2 - 1.14in x 2
Valve Lift: 0.4in
Valve Timing: 62,86,86,62
Piston & rings : Cosworth/Hepolite
Bearings: Vandervell
Fuel & oil : UOP/Valvoline
Ignition : Lucas OPUS
Spark plugs: Champion
Cooling system : Water and oil-radiators by Marston-Excelsior (AVS designed)

TRANSMISSION
Gearbox : 5-speed Hewland FG-400 (modified)
Driveshafts : Shadow/Hardy Spicer
Clutch: Borg & Beck

SUSPENSION
Front and rear : Double wishbones, outboard springs
Rear : Lower wishbone, single top link, twin radius arms, outboard springs.
Dampers: Armstrong

BRAKES
Front : Vented Lockheed discs, inboard
Rear : Vented Lockheed discs, outboard
Pads: Ferodo

WHEELS
Wheel Diameter: 13in front - 13in rear
Rim width: 11in front - 17in rear
Tyres: Goodyear

STEERING
Type : Shadow rack and pinion.

INTERIOR
Cockpit : Smiths gauges

DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase : 100in
Front track : 58in
Rear track : 60in
Engine weight: 365 lbs
Gearbox weight: 110 lbs
Chassis weight: 70 lbs
Formula weight: 1270 lbs
Fuel cell : 40 gallons (Marston Excelsior)
Fuel consumption: 6 mpg

Imperial not metric measures ;)

[CSGPR]

Thank You Guys



Best regards

[GerardF1]

I notice from the above posts that for the DN1 & DN3 they state that carbon fibre was used.

While I am not doubting the people or the source ... isn't 1973 a little early for carbon fibre??

Gerard

[Don Capps]

Originally posted by GerardF1
IWhile I am not doubting the people or the source ... isn't 1973 a little early for carbon fibre??

Not at all, carbon fibre had been used by the military and aviation communities in certain applications well prior to this date.

[Tim Murray]

Perhaps you're thinking of carbon fibre (or other composite material) chassis construction, which IIRC was first introduced by McLaren and Lotus in 1981. The carbon fibre referred to above was incorporated into non-structural body parts.

The company I used to work for went bust in 1971 as an indirect result of trying to use carbon fibre to make compressor blades for one of their gas turbine engines.

[PeterElleray]

Could anybody point me in the direction of any detail shots of the DN1 (or DN3/DN5 for that matter). I'm looking for up close technical detail shots, not on track. Any links would be much appreciated

[Macca]

Re carbon-fibre; I seem to remember an article about Specialised Mouldings in 1967 which said they were using a few thicks strands within GRP bodies to allow them to reduce the thickness a bit.

Paul

[MCH]

Originally posted by PeterElleray
Could anybody point me in the direction of any detail shots of the DN1 (or DN3/DN5 for that matter). I'm looking for up close technical detail shots, not on track. Any links would be much appreciated

Here are some shots of the Shadow DN3

http://www.race-cars...31/74dn31pp.htm

[CSGPR]

Hi Everybody

Three years ago I’ve posted this thread in which I search for information regarding the remaining Shadows DN1, which the Shadow team raced in their first year in Formula One back in 1973.

As we now have a lot of new guys in the forum. I would like to put my request out again.

I know that DN1/1A was written off by Jackie Olivier at Zolder and George Follmer took care of #2A in Monaco then he had a come together with Merzario. Both cars could have been rebuild but I have no information regarding this.

It could look like that the #4A is retained by Don Nichols, but my information here is some years old, Then I’ve have absolutely no idea of the whereabouts of the #5A & #6A
But David Mckinney have pointed out then, that Juan Gonzalez raced a DN1 at Laguna Seca. But is there anyone who knows which and also when.

The DN1/3A was sold as a kit to Graham Hill’s Embassy Racing team, and the car is in the United States, owned by David Rose and that all I know.

Allen Brown was very helpful back then, and he even suggested that there should be a Shadow DN1/7A and that one car was stolen in Brazil and apparently newer discovered.

So if there is somebody who purses some kind of information regarding the apparently four remaining DN1’s I would be very pleased. Thank you


Best Regards

[Twin Window]

The Shadow DN1 threads are now merged, and CSGPR is still in need of more information...

[Arjan de Roos]

Maybe not appropiate, still. And I am not sure whether a little bit of promotion is prohibited??

But small quantity/high quality model car makers Marsh Models are preparing to release a model car of the DN1. Both the 1973 works car version as the Hill car. Scale will be 1/43rd and as usual a kit and a hand built model will be available. www.marshmodels.com

This is a sigh of relief for many collectors who had to wait so long after many poor attempts. Having only the Corgi of so many years ago as best example.

[CSGPR]

Hi guys and thank you again Twin Window

Then I re-posted this thread today I was foolish enough to relay on my memory , thanks to Twin Window I can now see that this was a huge mistake.

So here it goes. Status as the tread terminated in 2001 was as Allen Brown wrote it.

1A: written off Belgium 1973 (replica later built - now in UK)
2A: written off Monaco 1973 (practice)
3A: Hill - several owners later - David Rose 1996
4A: to Jarier as a show car in lieu of salary - several owners later - Kelvin Lambert as at 1998.
5A: to Roger Springett for Shellsport G8 - several owners later - Juan Gonzales 1996
6A: to Roger Springett for Shellsport G8 - I lost track of this car in the late 1980's
7A: still with Nichols in 1994
8A: stolen in Brazil and not recovered.

Is there anybody who knows about the replica 1A probably im UK.

And there whereabouts of 6A and do Gonzales still owns the 5A

So far is Allen Brown the only one to tell me about the 8A. In Doug Nye’s Autocourse
History of the Grand Prix Car 1966-91 there is no mention of a 8A. an in Paul Sheldon’s “Milestones behind the marques” there is not such as a 7A and 8A.

I believe there was a new DN1 in Argentina and it was #7A. But I find it hard to believe that there should be a #8A. Maybe it was a show car. But why bring a show to Brazil. So Doug if you read this tread. What do you think regarding Chassis #8A? I know you talk with Allen from time to time.

Best regards

[fattogatto]

Maybe a stupid question, but has anyone talked to Don?

[CSGPR]

Hi Charlie

I mailed him last year at the e-mail address you send me, but unfortunately he never answered my mail, which is also the reason that my plan to run a Shadow web site is on hold. Maybe I should give it another try. Nice to hear from you

Best regards

Christian

[fattogatto]

HI Christian,

I'll PM you with the last phone numbers I had for him - home, fax, shop.

Cheers,

[CSGPR]

Thank You Charlie

Maybe the workshop can tell.

Best Regards

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by CSGPR
Hi guys and thank you again Twin Window

Then I re-posted this thread today I was foolish enough to relay on my memory , thanks to Twin Window I can now see that this was a huge mistake.

So here it goes. Status as the tread terminated in 2001 was as Allen Brown wrote it.

1A: written off Belgium 1973 (replica later built - now in UK)
2A: written off Monaco 1973 (practice)
3A: Hill - several owners later - David Rose 1996
4A: to Jarier as a show car in lieu of salary - several owners later - Kelvin Lambert as at 1998.
5A: to Roger Springett for Shellsport G8 - several owners later - Juan Gonzales 1996
6A: to Roger Springett for Shellsport G8 - I lost track of this car in the late 1980's
7A: still with Nichols in 1994
8A: stolen in Brazil and not recovered.

Is there anybody who knows about the replica 1A probably im UK.

And there whereabouts of 6A and do Gonzales still owns the 5A

So far is Allen Brown the only one to tell me about the 8A. In Doug Nye’s Autocourse
History of the Grand Prix Car 1966-91 there is no mention of a 8A. an in Paul Sheldon’s “Milestones behind the marques” there is not such as a 7A and 8A.

I believe there was a new DN1 in Argentina and it was #7A. But I find it hard to believe that there should be a #8A. Maybe it was a show car. But why bring a show to Brazil. So Doug if you read this tread. What do you think regarding Chassis #8A? I know you talk with Allen from time to time.

Best regards

It was Don that showed me 7A and told me that the car we all thought was 7A was in fact 8A. Penny had wiped most of the muck off 7A but it was clear it had been sitting in his lockup for a very long time.

Chassis plates were reused in DN1s so most of the DSJ numbers - the ones most modern histories use - never appeared on Shadow chassis plates.

Allen

[Muzza]

Allen,

I am trying to retrieve the story of the robbery of the Shadow DN1 in my homeland Brazil. I talked to two local journalists that covered Formula 1 at the time (both are still active) and 1.) they did not recall it, 2.) are very interested to help to find out what happened.

When did that happen - 1973 or 1974? If 1974, that was the year in which the Brasília track was inaugurated, holding a non-championship Formula 1 race. This could lead to three outlets:

a. The car was stolen in São Paulo;
b. The car was stolen in Brasília;
c. The car was stolen somewhere in between these two places.

The two gentlemen I talked with are very knowledgeable writers and they were rather ashamed to admit that they could not recall this story!

Cheers,


Muzza

[CSGPR]

Hi Guys

I talked to Alan Rees yesterday, and then I ask him about the rumour, regarding the supposed theft of a Shadow DN1 Chassis, in Brazil back in 1974, he just said “No that defiantly not true” and as he was the team manager at the time: I strongly believe that’s the end of the theft story.

Best regards

[Twin Window]

This is probably of little or no use, but I remember seeing (or I have) a photo of a DN1 chassis which has been damaged in an accident, and thereafter totally stripped and is propped up vertically - rear on the ground - against the back of the pits. But where was it taken...?!

Does anyone else remember seeing that pic? Or recall where it was taken? I'll have a look tomorrow evening if nobody else has it.

(BTW I taught Alan Rees' son how to play pool! )

[Muzza]

Dear Fellows,


I have been trying to investigate the mysterious disappearance of the Shadow DN1 chassis 8A and thanks to racing journalist Eduardo Correa of GPTotal we heard something rather interesting from Ricardo Divila. Quite surprisingly - particularly to myself, who believed this tale to be a myth - Divila’s words are very alike to those made by Stuart! (see posting immediately above).

Divila wrote that at the time the Formula 1 cars were stored between sessions in a wooden shack just before Curva Um (Turn 1). In one of the first practice sessions for the 1974 Brazilian GP one of the Shadow drivers had an accident (Divila could not remember who), and the team mechanics switched components (engine and the rest) to a spare. They left the damaged chassis outside of the shack, leaning upright against one of its walls. When they come back later to put this chassis into its crate... it had already disappeared.

According to Divila many other items were stolen for the shack, like tyres, sprockets and tools. The mechanics went mad - not as much for the parts as for the tools. At the time many of the tools belonged to mechanics (as personal property), and not to the teams.

Rumours state that the Shadow DN1 8A became the basis for one of the many Formula Super Vee made in Brazil in the mid 1970s. Considering the dimensions of some of the local Super Vees compared to their European counterparts, this may well be true.

Regards,


Muzza

[Twin Window]

Well it took me nearly a month, but I've finally found that photo!

It turns out it was in an issue of Autosprint magazine covering the... 1974 Brazilian GP!



So is this DN1/8A? Are we any nearer to solving the mystery of the 'missing' Shadow DN1?

[Twin Window]

Any news, Sal?

[Muzza]

Dear Stu Holmes,


Yes, this is the Shadow DN1 chassis 8A - I am glad that our parallel investigations converged.

Unfortunately my sources have "dried" and I don't think I will be able to find more information about the whereabouts of this chassis unless I spend a good deal of time interviewing people next time I visit Brazil. For the time being we know that:

- yes, the chassis was indeed stolen in Sao Paulo in 1974 during the first sessions for the Brazilian GP;
- yes, that was the chassis bent by Jarier in that pile-up on the first lap of the Argentinean GP (the remark on my previous e-mail that the chassis was damaged in a crash in Interlagos is incorrect );
- yes, the picture at Autosprint shows that very same chassis - and it was stolen from the very same place shown in that shot!
- the chassis was stolen by members of one of the teams competing in the Brazilian Formula Super Vee Championship - who went on to build a new car for this series around it...

Unsurprisingly, from this point on all my sources are quite tight-lipped about it.

Cheers,


Muzza Watson

[eldougo]

Quote from Muzza.
Unsurprisingly, from this point on all my sources are quite tight-lipped about it.......

So tell us Muzza did these Vee's do any good in racing ,or where they set up to turn left just like the bent TUB

[Muzza]

Originally posted by eldougo

Quote from Muzza.
Unsurprisingly, from this point on all my sources are quite tight-lipped about it.......

So tell us Muzza did these Vee's do any good in racing ,or where they set up to turn left just like the bent TUB

Well, since Interlagos was and still is a counterclockwise circuit, that could come quite handy actually...

[Allen Brown]

I was just googling for Shadow DN1 references and was directed to this old thread.  As Google thinks it is still important, it's best I bring it up to date:

 

20 years ago, I caused some confusion by believing a story I was told in the US.  I am older now, and marginally less stupid, and can see the error of my ways.  So forget what I told you about DN1/7A and DN1/8A, they simply didn't exist.  I also discovered that I had been too literal when saying that Roger Springett had two DN1s.  He only owned one complete DN1 - DN1/6A; the second one he told me about was never more than a bare tub and was scrapped in the 1980s.   Once 7A and 8A are removed from the equation, and 5A is taken out of Springett's history, everything simplifies.  It means that the "DN1/2A" that Don Nichols had in 1994 can only be DN1/5A, the car known to have worn the chassis plate from DN1/2A.  This explains why the inner tub skins had been "relieved" to fit Follmer, something that would not have been necessary if the car had been built after Follmer left the team, as I was being asked to believe.

 

So the up-to-date owners are:

 

1A: written off Belgium 1973 (replica later built and sold to UK owner)

2A: written off Monaco 1973 (practice)

3A: Hill - several owners later - Daryl Taylor 2016

4A: to Jarier as a show car in lieu of salary - several owners later - Keith Frieser 2016

5A: retained by Don Nichols for many years - to US owner 2016

6A: to Roger Springett for Shellsport G8 - several owners later - UK owner 2016

Edited by Allen Brown, 30 December 2016 - 18:39.

[Lee Nicolle]

Allen, you must tear your hair out trying to make sense of these cars, With the same tub under the same chassis number and some dubious stories there will always be doubt. 

And some crashed cars that have either been repaired or retubbed [which strictly speaking is a different car] the true identity may well be lost even to the owners, especially at this distance.

Some while ago I spent some time with a Supermodified Chassis builder. He knows who he sold cars too, and has a fair idea of cars he rebuilt or others rebuilt. Or copied.  But he really does not care as he is only interested in the current stuff.

A local motorsport journalist that he is friends with has far more idea. This is well over 20 frames  built over 15-20 years.  Though at least these all stayed in Australia.

[Allen Brown]

For posterity, here is the page that I will keep up to date with Shadow DN1 ownership:

 

http://www.oldracing...com/shadow/dn1/

[goro]

Hello friends. I was very interested in the search for chassis DN01. I personally like this car very much for its compactness. In my search I discovered only two bogies whose history you already know from this thread.

I am now building a DN1 1/12 scale for myself. It is handmade and almost without the necessary plans  . I had to replace them with photos. Pictures from his construction on FB under the name Igor Zervan and also at: https://cevert.rajce..._in_scale_1_12/ reference photos at: https://cevert.rajce...3_-_referencie/

I wish you fun

"Goro"

Edited by goro, 05 November 2019 - 14:02.