100 replies to this topic

[ch103]

Many times online we read of Bernie or Liberty Media wanting to grow F1's presence in the USA and they both have referred to it as a "tough nut to crack".  So much time and money has been invested into picking locations, tracks, etc, but I honestly think F1 is missing one major point.

 

In order to grow F1's appeal, the cars must be able to make bigger drivers competitive.  No offense to F1 but only drivers who have horse jockey physiques can compete to win.

 

How many "average" people (not just in the USA) have bodies like F1 pilots or MotoGP riders?  Not many (this includes me),

 

So F1 has a much better chance growing their presence in the USA if a driver with a body like Tony Stewart, Juan Pablo Montoya, etc can compete with the "featherlite" drivers like Seb, Lewis and Co. 

 

Make rules that allow bigger people to be competitive.  Its not that hard. 

[crooky369]

Not sure where you’re going with this. I’d make a decent racing driver physique wise...

Doesn’t stop me watching and enjoying football, rugby, heavyweight boxing etc despite them rarely being my kind of size. And anyway normally being bigger is an advantage in most sports, let the smaller guys use their advantages for once!

[loki]

How many "average" people (not just in the USA) have bodies like F1 pilots or MotoGP riders?  Not many (this includes me),

 

Go to a karting event like SKUSA or some WKA or IKF nationals and you'll see all kinds of lil' fellers racing.   That is those that have the build of an F1 driver.  Even into Cup the plus size drivers are not the norm.  Same with Indycar or sports cars.  The problem in climbing the ladder to F1 is the same as it's been for decades.  First there is the bias against US drivers and in some way the US in general  It can also be seen on this forum.  Second is you have to go over there at a young age to climb the ladder.  Some will but most won't.  There is more of a cultural divide rather than anything to do with body size.  

[AustinF1]

Not sure where you’re going with this. I’d make a decent racing driver physique wise...

Doesn’t stop me watching and enjoying football, rugby, heavyweight boxing etc despite them rarely being my kind of size. And anyway normally being bigger is an advantage in most sports, let the smaller guys use their advantages for once!

 

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.

 

The title is about making F1 more popular in the U.S., but that's not really what the OP is about. Rather it's about making the cars suit bigger drivers to make the sport more relatable everywhere, not just in the U.S. 

 

Open-wheel and other drivers are general small in the U.S., too, just like everywhere else. Even when  I show up to local arrive & drive karting days, I'm usually giving away 40-50+ pounds to most of the guys (I'm 6', 200#), and that's just in a very casual setting.

 

Didn't take my oldest boy long to figure out he wasn't destined for racing. $$$ aside, it hit him in a big way when we measured him on his 12th birthday and he was already about as tall as the average racing driver. He's 15 now & is 6'2". 

Edited by AustinF1, 15 December 2018 - 01:59.

[Widefoot2]

Didn't take my oldest boy long to figure out he wasn't destined for racing. $$$ aside, it hit him in a big way when we measured him on his 12th birthday and he was already about as tall as the average racing driver. He's 15 now & is 6'2". 

If he still wants a "sporting life", try baseball, much safer than American football, with a longer on-field life too.

 

As for Driver's physique, I have the height right, but not the mass (a little tooooo much!).

[AustinF1]

If he still wants a "sporting life", try baseball, much safer than American football, with a longer on-field life too.

 

As for Driver's physique, I have the height right, but not the mass (a little tooooo much!).

Yeah, it just so happens that when it comes to playing a sport, baseball is all he thinks about (aside from racing). He would kinda like to play football, but I don't think Mom or I want that for him, even though we're fans.  He couldn't care less about hoops, even at his height. Hard thrower in baseball. It took some doing to convince him of it, but the potential is there for him to be special as a pitcher. As always, wewillsee. Baseball is the sport I'm best able to coach my boys at, followed by driving (which is not an option for us to compete in) & volleyball, so it's a lot of fun, and a lot of work during the seasons.   /csb

Edited by AustinF1, 15 December 2018 - 03:00.

[Squeed]

Many times online we read of Bernie or Liberty Media wanting to grow F1's presence in the USA and they both have referred to it as a "tough nut to crack".  So much time and money has been invested into picking locations, tracks, etc, but I honestly think F1 is missing one major point.
 
In order to grow F1's appeal, the cars must be able to make bigger drivers competitive.  No offense to F1 but only drivers who have horse jockey physiques can compete to win.
 
How many "average" people (not just in the USA) have bodies like F1 pilots or MotoGP riders?  Not many (this includes me),
 
So F1 has a much better chance growing their presence in the USA if a driver with a body like Tony Stewart, Juan Pablo Montoya, etc can compete with the "featherlite" drivers like Seb, Lewis and Co. 
 
Make rules that allow bigger people to be competitive.  Its not that hard.

I never notice how slight the drivers are until they stand next to someone to do an interview. I don’t think that driver size has much to do with the sport’s popularity.

But on a relevant note, with Verstappen’s Dutch heritage, I wonder if he will have a shorter window than most when he starts to develop a grown man’s body. And I wonder if that may have been part of the thinking when Jas pushed so hard to get him in a top seat so early.

[Andrew Hope]

I don't like Formula One anymore either because I can't relate physically to what is on my screen.

Incidentally that's also why I no longer watch porn - many of the women have larger breasts than I do.

[Laster]

Since the topic is more about covering driver height/weight/physique - I’d like to point out that next season they do have the drivers and seats all being made to weigh the same so tall drivers like Hulkenberg are not at a disadvantage anymore. So it should make drivers with similar builds to Montoya able to drive the things. However fitness is just needed to be the best at whatever sport you do, so in that matter they have to excel.

I don’t see how any of this relates to popularity in the U.S however. The U.S has always gone its own way when it comes to sport, from my experience of the country they are very proud of their sports, and deeply patriotic. If you want to grow a sport in America you need a huge part of American culture to he brought into the sport, including above all else, some American drivers for them to get behind.

[sopa]

I don’t see how any of this relates to popularity in the U.S however. The U.S has always gone its own way when it comes to sport, from my experience of the country they are very proud of their sports, and deeply patriotic. If you want to grow a sport in America you need a huge part of American culture to he brought into the sport, including above all else, some American drivers for them to get behind.

 

That's the point really. NHL, NBA, MLB, NFL, NASCAR are all based in America. Clubs/Teams are American, most of the sportsmen are Americans.

 

F1 needs top American teams and drivers to make Americans feel like it is "their" series, not some European thing.

[PayasYouRace]

I'm not really sure what the OP is getting at other than the suggestion that F1 needs to appeal to the USA's obese population more. All sports have their particular body-type of athlete that is best suited to it, and motorsport is potentially the most neutral because advantages of weight and build can be cancelled out. F1 is even equalising that more from next season by having a minimum weight for driver and seat so it's no longer a great advantage to be small.

[jonpollak]

All Americans are fat.
Jp

[NotAPineapple]

I'd also like to see the olympic 100m run downhill, with a ballasting system and a laser enforced speed limit.

Murrrricaaaaaaaaa

[Requiem84]

USA has one of the highest average BMI’s.

If anything F1 should encourage fans to get fit. Verstappen is 5’9 or 6’. Hulk is taller even. Webber is taller etc.

[AustinF1]

What F1 needs for Americans to sit up and take notice is an American driver who already has a following in the US, driving in a team that gives him or her a legit chance to win. In other words ... the same thing F1 needs to get most any country to pay attention (outside of the hard core racing fans). And yeah, that's not likely to happen anytime soon, if ever.

[AustinF1]

That's the point really. NHL, NBA, MLB, NFL, NASCAR are all based in America. Clubs/Teams are American, most of the sportsmen are Americans.

 

F1 needs top American teams and drivers to make Americans feel like it is "their" series, not some European thing.

Just FYI the NHL is only about 25% Americans. MLB is 27% non-American players, and increasing, with a large Latin contingent. The NBA is 29% foreign with that % growing rapidly.

[AustinF1]

I'd also like to see the olympic 100m run downhill, with a ballasting system and a laser enforced speed limit.

Murrrricaaaaaaaaa

What? 

 

USA has one of the highest average BMI’s.

If anything F1 should encourage fans to get fit. Verstappen is 5’9 or 6’. Hulk is taller even. Webber is taller etc.

 

BMI is a joke. It doesn't take build or age into account at all. I've always been very athletic, fit, and thin, playing multiple sports almost all my life. At 6' tall, according to BMI I've been overweight since I passed 180# in my 20s, when I was thin as a rail. To get back into the 'healthy' range, I'd have to be a bag of bones.

 

Hulk & Webbo are 6' 0". Max is 5' 9". 

 

F1 is encouraging fans to get fit with their F1 Fitness (or whatever they're called) tents at GPs.

[Frood]

Just on the driver height thing - a lot of the newer drivers are taller; the average height on the grid is definitely increasing. Your 6’ and taller drivers now are Giovinazzi, Hulkenberg, Albon (who will be the tallest on the grid next year), Russell and Kubica. Ocon is also 6’1” and may be returning to the grid at some point.

Kvyat and Stroll are 5’11”.

Edited by Frood, 15 December 2018 - 14:18.

[Clatter]

Many times online we read of Bernie or Liberty Media wanting to grow F1's presence in the USA and they both have referred to it as a "tough nut to crack".  So much time and money has been invested into picking locations, tracks, etc, but I honestly think F1 is missing one major point.

 

In order to grow F1's appeal, the cars must be able to make bigger drivers competitive.  No offense to F1 but only drivers who have horse jockey physiques can compete to win.

 

How many "average" people (not just in the USA) have bodies like F1 pilots or MotoGP riders?  Not many (this includes me),

 

So F1 has a much better chance growing their presence in the USA if a driver with a body like Tony Stewart, Juan Pablo Montoya, etc can compete with the "featherlite" drivers like Seb, Lewis and Co. 

 

Make rules that allow bigger people to be competitive.  Its not that hard. 

 

The rules are already being changed. Next year all drivers + their seat must be 80kg, so the lighter drivers will no longer have an advantage.

[red stick]

. . .

I don’t see how any of this relates to popularity in the U.S however. The U.S has always gone its own way when it comes to sport, from my experience of the country they are very proud of their sports, and deeply patriotic. If you want to grow a sport in America you need a huge part of American culture to he brought into the sport, including above all else, some American drivers for them to get behind.

 

This.  Of the many reasons F1 hasn't taken off in the U.S., the size of the drivers isn't in the first 100. 

[Requiem84]

What?


BMI is a joke. It doesn't take build or age into account at all. I've always been very athletic, fit, and thin, playing multiple sports almost all my life. At 6' tall, according to BMI I've been overweight since I passed 180# in my 20s, when I was thin as a rail. To get back into the 'healthy' range, I'd have to be a bag of bones.

Hulk & Webbo are 6' 0". Max is 5' 9".

F1 is encouraging fans to get fit with their F1 Fitness (or whatever they're called) tents at GPs.

I’m always surprised how the concept of a healthy weight is different in the US compared to other countries.

Fyi, I’m 6’0 and I’m roughly 165 lbs. In the Netherlands, that makes me a short guy who isn’t necessarily super ripped.

[B Squared]

F1 needs top American teams and drivers to make Americans feel like it is "their" series, not some European thing.

[AustinF1]

I’m always surprised how the concept of a healthy weight is different in the US compared to other countries.

Fyi, I’m 6’0 and I’m roughly 165 lbs. In the Netherlands, that makes me a short guy who isn’t necessarily super ripped.

Like I said before, a healthy weight is not going to be the same for every 6' tall male, even of the same age. People have different builds, different lifestyles, etc. As I've aged, most of the weight I've put on is muscle from being very active, not fat. At 6' and 180, I was skinny, skinny, skinny, with hardly any fat. And even that weight put me at the very upper limit of the healthy range. As I got stronger and even more fit, I easily surpassed the healthy limit and went right into the 'overweight' range.  I was getting fitter and much stronger, not fatter, but BMI told me the polar opposite.

 

BMI was also developed 186 years ago. People have gotten bigger & stronger since then.

Edited by AustinF1, 15 December 2018 - 15:29.

[Myrvold]

For what it's worth. 5 and 6 sounds extremely short, while 165-180 sounds extremely heavy.

[noikeee]

I agree BMI is bullshit for individuals but not so much for whole population groups - put it this way, USA's average BMI isn't high because everyone has lots of healthy extra muscular mass...

Which is all a moot point given that the premise for this thread is bizarre. No F1 isn't unpopular in the USA because the drivers are short and skinny. Peak off-season right here.

Edited by noikeee, 15 December 2018 - 15:29.

[FLB]

F1 needs top American teams and drivers to make Americans feel like it is "their" series, not some European thing.

Well, yes and no. For sure you'd need an American in a competitive situation and not just be 'The Token American'. In other words, a Phil Hill, a Mario Andretti, a Dan Gurney, a Peter Revson or a Mark Donohue (let's not forget he got to F1 late... and that he scored a podium in his first Grand Prix).

 

That said, I have never figured why for the life of me Moto GP wasn't bigger in the US in the1980s than it was, especially 500cc. Most of the dominant riders were either Americans or Australians (I'm talking people like Eddie Lawson, Kevin Schwantz, Wayne Rainey, Kenny Roberts, Freddie Spencer, etc.).

Edited by FLB, 15 December 2018 - 16:47.

[sopa]

That said, I have never figured why for the life of me Moto GP wasn't bigger in the US in the1980s than it was, especially 500cc. Most of the dominant riders were either Americans or Australians (I'm talking people like Eddie Lawson, Kevin Schwantz, Wayne Rainey, Kenny Roberts, Freddie Spencer, etc.).

 

That's a good question. But it has probably to do with that while riders were Americans, teams and the whole structure of the sport wasn't. Top riders were riding the Japanese Yamahas, Hondas and Suzukis, and FIM was running the sport from Europe.

 

Now that may not necessarily have to mean that everything has to be run in the States for a sport to be big there. But the sport has to be relatable to people, that it in a way would embrace local lifestyle and culture.

 

Cultural trends by the way are one of the hardest things to change, and often quite impossible. Of course having an American Corporation like Liberty running F1 is good start for them in this sense, as they should know what it would take for Americans to embrace the sport. But in practical terms they are long way from getting anywhere.

[Squeed]

All Americans are fat.
Jp

Maybe our BMI’s are high because we have 50lb huevos.

Edited by Squeed, 15 December 2018 - 18:12.

[BalanceUT]

What a strange topic to ostensibly be for discussion of the viability of a second F1 race in the USA. 

[whitewaterMkII]

My bro in law flew F-16's, he's big guy, he went to the Air Force Academy on a football scholarship. He failed his annual on his BMI one year after he had like 4k hours flying, by a new doc in the squadron that happened to be a marathon runner. He took the guy up in a two seater and beat the crap out of him, and when the doc poured himself out of the back seat, and bro unstrapped without a drop of sweat and said he would run the doc to the end of the runway no problem, there wasn't a peep. He got his clearance the next day. What shape you are, varies to be the best at what you do.

 

And yes this has gone very off topic for a second race in the US, but as a point of fact, there are far, far, far more opportunities for hard core racing drivers in the US than F-1, and will always be so. If F-1 racing requires small drivers, you won't see a US driver again. So be it. We'll still enjoy it. And if you haven't noticed, even the NASCAR drivers are shrinking.

Edited by whitewaterMkII, 16 December 2018 - 07:22.

[Kalmake]

Maybe American cars need lower their M.

 

If there were American manufacturers in F1, they could have junior programs to get American drivers in and hype it in media.

[loki]

Maybe American cars need lower their M.

 

If there were American manufacturers in F1, they could have junior programs to get American drivers in and hype it in media.

 

F1 is expensive and not a good value compared to other methods of selling cars in the US.   The growth markets are China and India.  There is no growth left in the European or US markets.  Business wise F1 is by and large a British sport.  Even if Ford and GM fielded teams the US kids would still have to go over and climb that ladder.   It doesn't change anything from that perspective save for more seats for them to potentially have.  The manufacturers have other racing platforms they use in the US with great success.  F1 as a whole just isn't going to be that big in the the US.  That's not to say another race isn't possible.  By most folks that attend these are events in and of themselves.  The Indianapolis 500 is one as are Long Beach and Toronto.  If those events accurately captured the Indycar fan base it would be bigger than Nascar in the US.  But it's not largely because those are looked to be events in and of themselves and not part a a larger whole.  

[AustinF1]

What a strange topic to ostensibly be for discussion of the viability of a second F1 race in the USA. 

 

 

And yes this has gone very off topic for a second race in the US

 

It started out OT in the OP.

[AustinF1]

If there were American manufacturers in F1

Are they changing the PU formula?

[Cliff]

Americans not making it in F1 because they are too big is the biggest bull i’ve Heard in a while. The average height in America is a lot smaller than most North/Western European countries. We Dutchies are the tallest on average in the world, closely followed by Swedes, Danes and Germans. All of which are represented in F1. Height you are born with. Weight on the other hand is something you can do about.

[Nonesuch]

In order to grow F1's appeal, the cars must be able to make bigger drivers competitive.  No offense to F1 but only drivers who have horse jockey physiques can compete to win.

 

That's not a good metric at all. There are plenty of F1 drivers over 180 cm, not that long ago we had one win a world title. Another one is regularly winning races.

 

There have been dozens more US drivers than Chinese, and well, they're not exactly the tallest people around.

 

F1 has trouble attracting US talent in no small part because it has trouble attracting all manner of non-European talent. Unlike other sports, racing follows all kinds of different regulations and uses different cars all over. If you grow up in one place, you acquire different skills and probably even different preferences than someone who grows up in another. It's not like football/soccer, which is the same all over - and thus, unsurprisingly, the most popular sport in the world.

Edited by Nonesuch, 16 December 2018 - 15:10.

[ch103]

My point was if F1 wants to appeal to more people, then the cars and series have to be designed in such a way that someone who is 6'6" 315lbs has an equal chance at winning as Felipe Massa style bodies. 

[PayasYouRace]

That’s well into obese territory ch103.

https://www.nhs.uk/l...t-weight-chart/

I think F1 should be promoting healthy bodies from their athletes.

[Nonesuch]

My point was if F1 wants to appeal to more people, then the cars and series have to be designed in such a way that someone who is 6'6" 315lbs has an equal chance at winning as Felipe Massa style bodies. 

 

F1 does need to appeal to more people, but not to more drivers. It doesn't seem like there's a shortage of drivers at all.

 

There are many current US drivers who could do well in F1, with the obvious caveat that to do well in F1 you need one of the two best cars, or remain content with sporadic wins or an odd podiums every other year.

 

How can F1 get drivers like Rossi, Newgarden or Dixon interested in F1? We all know Ecclestone tried to get Patrick over, but she simply wasn't interested.

 

As an aside, people weighing 140 kilograms probably have other issues to deal with than finding ways to handle heart rates of over 150 for the better part of two hours.

[Tsarwash]

My point was if F1 wants to appeal to more people, then the cars and series have to be designed in such a way that someone who is 6'6" 315lbs has an equal chance at winning as Felipe Massa style bodies. 

Twenty two and a half stone ? That doesn't sound like a typical race driver. How many IndyCar or Nascar drivers are that heavy ?

[Squeed]

Twenty two and a half stone ? That doesn't sound like a typical race driver. How many IndyCar or Nascar drivers are that heavy ?

exactly zero, ever. now if we’re talking about tractor pulls or the topless bars in the vicinity of Talladega, he may be on to something.

[Clatter]

My point was if F1 wants to appeal to more people, then the cars and series have to be designed in such a way that someone who is 6'6" 315lbs has an equal chance at winning as Felipe Massa style bodies. 

 

Seriously? Of all the faults that there are with the sport, one thing I have never heard anyone say is they are put off because of the size of the drivers. There are plenty of sports more suited to someone weighing in at 300+lb, but I'd hazard a guess that the majority of people in that range are not going to get up off the couch and make the effort to succeed.

[Jim Thurman]

Twenty two and a half stone ? That doesn't sound like a typical race driver. How many IndyCar or Nascar drivers are that heavy ?

 

exactly zero, ever. now if we’re talking about tractor pulls or the topless bars in the vicinity of Talladega, he may be on to something.

 

Look up Les Snow.

 

There needs to be more threads broadly stereotyping Americans, because apparently there aren't enough.

[Squeed]

Look up Les Snow.
 
There needs to be more threads broadly stereotyping Americans, because apparently there aren't enough.

he’s not fat he’s big boned

[coppilcus]

Just on the driver height thing - a lot of the newer drivers are taller; the average height on the grid is definitely increasing. Your 6’ and taller drivers now are Giovinazzi, Hulkenberg, Albon (who will be the tallest on the grid next year), Russell and Kubica. Ocon is also 6’1” and may be returning to the grid at some point.

Kvyat and Stroll are 5’11”.

One thing is height and another one weight...

Ocon is like a creature imagined by Tim Burton.

[AustinF1]

he’s not fat he’s big boned

I'd say he's big-boned and fat. Man, I soooo love the stock cars from that era.

 

Americans not making it in F1 because they are too big is the biggest bull i’ve Heard in a while. The average height in America is a lot smaller than most North/Western European countries. We Dutchies are the tallest on average in the world, closely followed by Swedes, Danes and Germans. All of which are represented in F1. Height you are born with. Weight on the other hand is something you can do about.

Some of that may be true, but there really is no 'American' body type, despite what some in this thread would like for us to believe. America is a melting pot. We have every kind of body type here, in great numbers. Nordic countries? Probably not so much. 

 

And yeah, you can do something about your weight, but only up to a point. The rest is dictated by body type. It's not as simple as some would like to believe, where anyone with an undesirable BMI is a fat, lazy, gluttonous, unhealthy couch potato.

Edited by AustinF1, 16 December 2018 - 22:34.

[Vitesse2]

exactly zero, ever. now if we’re talking about ... the topless bars in the vicinity of Talladega, he may be on to something.

Please tell me you're talking about the clientele and not the staff ...

[PayasYouRace]

I'd say he's big-boned and fat. Man, I soooo love the stock cars from that era.

Some of that may be true, but there really is no 'American' body type, despite what some in this thread would like for us to believe. America is a melting pot. We have every kind of body type here, in great numbers. Nordic countries? Probably not so much.

And yeah, you can do something about your weight, but only up to a point. The rest is dictated by body type. It's not as simple as some would like to believe, where anyone with an undesirable BMI is a fat, lazy, unhealthy couch potato.

It’s actually as simple as energy in = energy out + energy stored.

[Squeed]

Please tell me you're talking about the clientele and not the staff ...

if only

[Vitesse2]

There needs to be more threads broadly stereotyping Americans, because apparently there aren't enough.

Well, it's a big target. Easy enough to hit ...