1245 replies to this topic

[Risil]

I love this thread.

[RC127]

On holiday but sounds like I will have fun catching up on these races on my Sky Q when I get home...

[Burtros]

I was stood at Druids during race 2 and 3 and you could see Cammish’s brakes glowing red hot under braking for Paddock Hill bend, much different to every other car. I wanted him to win it so gutted about that result but no issue with Turkington winning. He is pure class and he showed it today and throughout the season.

Also I’m a Vauxhall man so nice to see them pick up a win with Plato!

All in all a great season and a great day out. Roll on 2020! Hope Jordan is back again and I hope Goff gets a good drive too.

[BRG]

So for the 2020 season, we have Goodyears, no Subaru Borgs and no Shredded Wheat or Pirtek, (so no Jordan?)  I don't think the tyres matter too much,but losing three good entries isn't positive.  We need Sutton and Jordan (not so bothered about Procter) so where could they find a seat?  Will Blundell race next year - because he didn't this year!  Will Nic H. be back?  Do we need a Silly Season thread?  So many questions.

[PayasYouRace]

So for the 2020 season, we have Goodyears.

 

I'm assuming the tyres will be the same, just with Goodyear labels rather than Dunlop. They're just sister brands at this point.

 

 

  We need Sutton and Jordan (not so bothered about Procter) so where could they find a seat?

 

Yeah I do think Sutton needs to stay in. I thought Jordan was moving on to another series anyway.

 

 

 Will Blundell race next year 

 

Blundell really didn't add much to the grid, though it was interesting to have him back for novelty value.

 

 Will Nic H. be back? 

 

I'd rather see Nick Heidfeld.

 

But Nick Hamilton, well, like Blundell, he's a big of a meh at the back of the grid. But neither embarrasses themselves and if they enjoy it and have the funding who am I to stop them?

[BRG]

I'm assuming the tyres will be the same, just with Goodyear labels rather than Dunlop. They're just sister brands at this point.

 

I'd rather see Nick Heidfeld.

I thought that Dunlop was sold off to the Japanese, but I see that you are right, they are part of G'year.

 

Can we have Nick Heidfeld?  BTCC has often had a few overseas drivers, it is lacking that at the moment.  Some 'names' would add some prestige to an otherwise rather 'clubby' domestic series.

[JHSingo]

So for the 2020 season, we have Goodyears, no Subaru Borgs and no Shredded Wheat or Pirtek, (so no Jordan?)  I don't think the tyres matter too much,but losing three good entries isn't positive.  We need Sutton and Jordan (not so bothered about Procter) so where could they find a seat?  Will Blundell race next year - because he didn't this year!  Will Nic H. be back?  Do we need a Silly Season thread?  So many questions.

 

It wasn't entirely clear from the coverage what is happening at Subaru, whether they're withdrawing or just changing car. I believe (and hope) that BMR will be back with a new car, Subaru or otherwise. This season has really showed up the Levorg's deficiencies, and it's time for a change. The car is getting on a bit, and it's clear despite all the performance balancing that goes on in the series that older cars tend to get shuffled back. Look at the MGs - once race-winners in the right hands, now permanently at the back of the grid. Saying that, the old shape Civics still seem to be competitive enough...

 

I feel that as long as BMR is in the series, Sutton will be with them if they can provide him a competitive enough car, which obviously this year they didn't. There was an interesting exchange between Louise and Ash at the end of race three, when she said something to the effect of "look forward to seeing you back next year". No doubt some things will already be in the process or sorted out for next year, even if we don't hear about them for a while.

 

Obviously, the BTCC has good years and weaker years with driving talent. But I feel just lately that unless the grid shrank considerably, there's enough talent on the grid that you don't notice the absences so much. A few years ago, not having Mat Jackson or Gordon Shedden on the grid would have been really noticeable, but given the current crop of youngsters who've established themselves in the series over the past 2-3 years, I can't say I've noticed it as much. If Jordan isn't on the grid next year, it'll depend if there are any others missing from this year's main group, but I don't think we should be overly pessimistic about it.

 

I'll definitely start a 2020 thread, but I think it's probably best to wait a bit longer, given the lack of unofficial news at this point.

[JHSingo]

Autosport's take on that weekend:

 

Why the 2019 BTCC decider will enter motorsport legend

 

Certainly ranks up there of the craziest things I've ever seen in motorsport.

[Kev00]

It wasn't entirely clear from the coverage what is happening at Subaru, whether they're withdrawing or just changing car. I believe (and hope) that BMR will be back with a new car, Subaru or otherwise. This season has really showed up the Levorg's deficiencies, and it's time for a change. The car is getting on a bit, and it's clear despite all the performance balancing that goes on in the series that older cars tend to get shuffled back. Look at the MGs - once race-winners in the right hands, now permanently at the back of the grid. Saying that, the old shape Civics still seem to be competitive enough...

I feel that as long as BMR is in the series, Sutton will be with them if they can provide him a competitive enough car, which obviously this year they didn't. There was an interesting exchange between Louise and Ash at the end of race three, when she said something to the effect of "look forward to seeing you back next year". No doubt some things will already be in the process or sorted out for next year, even if we don't hear about them for a while.

Obviously, the BTCC has good years and weaker years with driving talent. But I feel just lately that unless the grid shrank considerably, there's enough talent on the grid that you don't notice the absences so much. A few years ago, not having Mat Jackson or Gordon Shedden on the grid would have been really noticeable, but given the current crop of youngsters who've established themselves in the series over the past 2-3 years, I can't say I've noticed it as much. If Jordan isn't on the grid next year, it'll depend if there are any others missing from this year's main group, but I don't think we should be overly pessimistic about it.

I'll definitely start a 2020 thread, but I think it's probably best to wait a bit longer, given the lack of unofficial news at this point.

Can’t see Subaru being on the grid next year. Really don’t know about BMR but can see Sutton driving a second Infinity alongside Moffat. Wouldn’t surprise me to see Jordan stay at WSR even without Pirtek.

[JavierDeVivre]

Really enjoyable end to the season, the fight going right to final race, with twists and drama included.

Glad that the others didn't just roll over and let title contenders go as we saw with Sheddon a few years ago, they actually got stuck in and raced.

I'm feeling a little depressed knowing that there are no more weekends filled with exciting BTCC and support racing action.

Edited by JavierDeVivre, 15 October 2019 - 15:43.

[Disgrace]

I wonder what the full story is behind the Cammish brake failure. An old part towards the end of its life? A faulty disc? The wrong setup? It would be interesting to know. I do feel sorry for him, but I'm certain he will get his title sooner rather than later.

 

So who do we fancy for next year? Plato is back but a little error prone, and without his comical dirty driving or parking issues would likely have been fourth in the standings. Speedworks quietly did a great job with the new Corolla given that they're a single car entry. AmD and Tordoff/Butcher is a highly promising package too. Can it be 2020 yet?

[Disgrace]

Autosport's take on that weekend:

 

Why the 2019 BTCC decider will enter motorsport legend

 

Certainly ranks up there of the craziest things I've ever seen in motorsport.

 

Thanks also to PAYR and midgrid but you're worthy of being singled out for your efforts to keep this thread alive all year, thanks and kudos sir.

[DS27]

Bought a present for Team Dynamics - has anyone got their address so I can send it to them?

 

 

[PayasYouRace]

Bought a present for Team Dynamics - has anyone got their address so I can send it to them?

 

 

 

Surely the connotation can be positive too? Send one to WSR too.

[DS27]

Now why didn't I think of that? My other half says I am a glass half empty person and I guess that proves her right   

 

I'll admit I saw red after race 2 when that **** Neal was stood alongside Dan waiting to be interviewed, and you could see him smirking and winking at his team behind the barriers as though to say 'job well done'. 

 

I read somewhere that there were 54 laps of safety cars on the day - not good.

Edited by DS27, 15 October 2019 - 21:10.

[JHSingo]

Thanks also to PAYR and midgrid but you're worthy of being singled out for your efforts to keep this thread alive all year, thanks and kudos sir.

 

Thank you! I realise, of course, that a thread dedicated to a not terribly well known national series is never going to generate even a tenth of the discussion the tiniest incidents in F1 or others series get (although it's funny to imagined the 50 page mega-thread the Neal incident could have provoked ), but it's been great fun to share the season with like-minded people. The BTCC was the very first series I attended with my dad in the early 2000s, so it'll always be important to me. And a thread only keeps going for as long as people engage with it. So, thanks to everyone who has contributed along the way. I hope everyone enjoyed the season as much as I did, and that we can do the same for the 2020 season.

 

I wonder what the full story is behind the Cammish brake failure. An old part towards the end of its life? A faulty disc? The wrong setup? It would be interesting to know. I do feel sorry for him, but I'm certain he will get his title sooner rather than later.

 

So who do we fancy for next year? Plato is back but a little error prone, and without his comical dirty driving or parking issues would likely have been fourth in the standings. Speedworks quietly did a great job with the new Corolla given that they're a single car entry. AmD and Tordoff/Butcher is a highly promising package too. Can it be 2020 yet?

 

As others have mentioned, and as was noted in the commentary at the time, it was odd to see his brakes glowing red hot in every shot, particularly when the cars around him didn't have the same thing. I wonder if the team were in communication at all, telling him he needed to back off a bit? I believe he mentioned in the interview afterwards he thought it was a result of spending too long stuck behind Ollie Jackson, but yeah, definitely a highly unusual one.

 

And for next year, how can you guess?! One of the things that will be interesting to see is to see if Toyota/Speedworks increase to a two car outfit. As good as Ingram undoubtedly is, I feel he's always going to fighting at a disadvantage while ever he's just in a single car team, compared to the might of Dynamics and WSR. It'll be interesting to see if Handy Motorsport are back with the Alfa and Rob Austin, as they targeted at the end of last year. And of course, if Jordan does depart WSR, who gets that third BMW seat. Clearly funding is important, but hopefully it is someone who can be involved in the overall championship battle, at least.

 

On a completely unrelated note, and in things you didn't expect to hear, NASCAR fan favourite Dale Jr is a fan of the BTCC! https://twitter.com/...747321529536513                

 

 

Wake up. Turn on TV @BTCC action is on. @Oulton_Park circuit. Legends @jasonplato and @MattNealRacing out there hustling. Great way to start the day.

Edited by JHSingo, 15 October 2019 - 22:06.

[midgrid]

Team radios from the crucial final two laps of Race Three.

[Disgrace]

As others have mentioned, and as was noted in the commentary at the time, it was odd to see his brakes glowing red hot in every shot, particularly when the cars around him didn't have the same thing. I wonder if the team were in communication at all, telling him he needed to back off a bit? I believe he mentioned in the interview afterwards he thought it was a result of spending too long stuck behind Ollie Jackson, but yeah, definitely a highly unusual one.

 

Yep, and I noticed it too but never dreamed that it would prove to be his undoing. Watching it again (because you know, I had to), his brakes were glowing red hot by lap two. Whatever the issue, it started early.

[Pete_f1]

Do you think we saw the Cammish crash live? It looked like the big crash at Paddock in race one was supposed to be played in as live but somthing went wrong as we saw it backwards.

[PayasYouRace]

Do you think we saw the Cammish crash live? It looked like the big crash at Paddock in race one was supposed to be played in as live but somthing went wrong as we saw it backwards.

 

That crash at paddock was missed live, and the director accidentally put the replay mixer feed onto the broadcast feed too early, so we saw the editor rewinding it to prep it for the broadcast replay.

 

I'm pretty sure they caught Cammish's crash live.

[midgrid]

BMR confirm that Subaru will leave the championship, but that they intend to remain.

 

(I'm not sure if running private Subarus without works backing would be an option.)

[JavierDeVivre]

Plus, whst benefit would there be to doing that.

It will be interesting to see what happens, there was chatter about there being an expanded Infiniti progamme, so perhaps...

I hope they don't just buy Hondas, there are already enough of them on the grid.

[Talisman]

BMR confirm that Subaru will leave the championship, but that they intend to remain.

 

(I'm not sure if running private Subarus without works backing would be an option.)

 

The Subaru deal never made sense to me.  I own one and in all the official newsletters we get from Subaru UK BTCC rarely gets mentioned.  They want to promote the kind of image Volvo used to have before they went after Mercedes, ie safe family cars, above average quality (but not premium) mainly for the rural driver.  Motorsports doesn't fit the image they are promoting.

 

So I can't see Subaru having had a car plus lots of cash and technical support deal with a team, especially since Subaru UK is a rather small offshoot and doesn't have much technical support to give, nor cash. 

The Levorg is an odd car too, it makes sense elsewhere where the 300bhp full fat version is available but that isn't the case in the UK.  The lower power version available here is a rather odd car which isn't particularly competitive in the marketplace on any particular front.  Subaru actually stopped selling them here for a while before reintroducing a facelifted version whilst its BTCC brother was racing.

 

The only thing I can think of is that BMR thought that the Levorg's low-slung flat four layout gave a competitive advantage and chased Subaru as a result.  That clearly is fading too as we can see from their gradual decline over the past season or two.

[JHSingo]

Plus, whst benefit would there be to doing that.

It will be interesting to see what happens, there was chatter about there being an expanded Infiniti progamme, so perhaps...

I hope they don't just buy Hondas, there are already enough of them on the grid.

 

Yeah, Sutton tested Moffat's Infiniti relatively recently, so it'll be interesting to see if there's anything more to that. I can't see the sense behind continuing to run the Levorgs as a privateer either - clearly they've struggled enough this year. I wouldn't be surprised if they got sold off and lived on as rear row fodder though.

Warren Scott strikes me as a savvy guy. To turn his privateer entry into a manufacturer backed and championship winning team in such a short space of time was very impressive, and I wouldn't totally rule out him securing a deal with another manufacturer, whoever that could be. I don't see there's really an attractive "off the shelf" option at the moment if BMR wishes to return to a regular race winner and championship contender, but let's watch this space.

 

Also, if you're one of the very few people to not consider £10.99 a complete rip off for a weekly magazine, look out for this week's Autosport. The BTCC is the cover story. When did that last happen?! I know they did a Super Touring special a couple of years ago, but in all the time I've read it I can't recall contemporary BTCC ever being the cover story. I suppose the often stated rumour about sales being lower whenever F1 isn't on the front cover can be disregarded with the price hike.  

 

Edited by JHSingo, 17 October 2019 - 14:38.

[PayasYouRace]

I’m tempted to buy that issue as memorabilia.

[Talisman]

Plus, whst benefit would there be to doing that.

It will be interesting to see what happens, there was chatter about there being an expanded Infiniti progamme, so perhaps...

I hope they don't just buy Hondas, there are already enough of them on the grid.

Infiniti is withdrawing from Europe early 2020. I’m sure their cars will still be available to race with but there won’t be any manufacturer backing.

[BRG]

Infiniti is withdrawing from Europe early 2020. 

Will anyone notice?  There are less than 10,000 Infintis (of any model or age) on the road in the UK today.  That F1 sponsorship must have been a real success.

[Talisman]

Will anyone notice?  There are less than 10,000 Infintis (of any model or age) on the road in the UK today.  That F1 sponsorship must have been a real success.

 

Yeah I think BTCC teams looking for an Infiniti works deal might notice  .

 

The lack of sales is obviously why they are abandoning Europe.  I doubt the sponsorship cost them much if anything, it was in Renault's interests to promote one of their other brands.

[BRG]

 I doubt the sponsorship cost them much if anything, it was in Renault's interests to promote one of their other brands.

It doesn't matter whether it cost them anything, it was ineffective at promoting the brand.

[midgrid]

A new marque will join the grid in 2020, as Excelr8 will replace its ageing MGs with Hyundai i30 Fastback N Performance models.  I believe that Hyundai has not previously been represented in the BTCC.

 

[JHSingo]

Great to see a new brand on the grid - a good looking car, that. And great to see the team looking like it is about to make a step up in competitiveness too - it was very difficult to get a read on them or their two drivers when they were running such old machinery this year.

 

The first big news in terms of confirmation for next year...the 2020 thread is on my "to do" list.

[BRG]

It doesn't sound as if Hyundai have very much, if any, real involvement in this.  Basically, it sounds like reshelling the NGTC bits out of the MGs in a new i30.  Still, good luck to them, the more the merrier.

[midgrid]

Laser Tools Racing will expand to two cars in 2020 by signing Ash Sutton to partner Aiden Moffat in their Infiniti Q50s.

HMS Racing, last seen in 2018 with Rob Austin driving an Alfa Romeo Giulietta, will not be returning in 2020, despite testing this season.

[Sterzo]

^ Boo!

All right-thinking citizens know the car line-up ought to include Alfa Romeo, and the driver line-up ought to include Rob Austin.

[JHSingo]

That Alfa will have competed in more test sessions than races at this rate. Plus, I can't help but feel that if it does return in 2021, the game will have moved on by then and it'll be an outdated car. Surely, the most sensible thing for HMS to do would be to sell it, if there's suitable interest. Otherwise it's just sitting in a workshop collecting dust. A shame.

 

Otherwise, great to see that Sutton will remain on the grid. It's not a total surprise, as has been rumoured ever since he tested the Infiniti a while ago, but nice that it's now officially confirmed. It was difficult to get a read on where that car was in terms of potential, but it seemed to be improving in Moffat's hands in the last couple of rounds, and with hopefully a full winter test programme it'll return Sutton back to being in the thick of the championship battle.

 

Next year's shaping up nicely already...

[F1matt]

You have missed a trick not starting the 2020 thread on the Ash Sutton news! 

 

It sounds like there is some tie up between BMR and Laser tools in the running of the two Infiniti's so lets hope they are at the sharp end of the grid. 

Shame about the Alfa and Rob Austin, I hope he can get a drive somewhere. 

[midgrid]

It sounds like there is some tie up between BMR and Laser tools in the running of the two Infiniti's so lets hope they are at the sharp end of the grid.

Yes, elsewhere the tie-up is explicitly stated, but not by Autosport, so it remains to be seen if BMR have slimmed down their efforts following Subaru's departure, or if they have further entries in the pipeline.

[JavierDeVivre]

I was expecting Sutton to join Moffatt following Sutton's test in the Infiniti. It was too odd for it not to be a possibility.

[blackhand2010]

There are rumours that Gordon Shedden may well be making a return to the series, but not with Team Dynamics. The rumours suggest a possible drive at Motorbase.

Take with as much salt as needed...

[messy]

Wouldn’t shock me, his WTCR move hasn’t really worked out the best.

[BRG]

Bad news re no Alfa and no Austin.  Rob really ought to be a front runner in the BTCC but never seems to get things together.  Sutton in the Infiniti ought to be good news too.

 

I would be pleased to see Shedden back.  I don't understand why he has been so off the pace in the WTCR - the Audi hasn't been the best car, but others seem to have done better with it than Flash.

[JHSingo]

It's a pity for the BTCC for one of its most successful drivers of recent years to struggle on the world scene, as well. Just adds to the uninformed opinion that no doubt some hold of the BTCC being an "easy" series to win.

 

Shedden would be a welcome return to the series, though, and I bet after a couple of years the appeal of traveling the world loses its appeal too.

 

On the subject of Motorbase, I still sometimes wonder what Mat Jackson is up to these days. He'd be another welcome returnee, and I'm surprised we've not heard very much from him since that abrupt split with Motorbase. Does anyone know if he still works at McLaren?

Edited by JHSingo, 28 November 2019 - 19:42.

[messy]

Was amazed to see Shedden is coming up 41, I honestly thought he was a fair few years younger than that.

I’d love to see him back too. He and Turkington - forget Plato and Neal - are the cornerstones of the recent BTCC really.

[midgrid]

The 2020 entry list reveals that BMR has slimmed down to the tie-up with Laser Tools Racing through Sutton.  On the other hand, BTC Racing expand to three cars.

 

Mike Bushell will return to a full-time seat with Team HARD.

[midgrid]

Carl Boardley will remain with Team Hard for 2020, but will switch to an ex-WSR BMW 1-Series.

[Frood]

On the subject of Motorbase, I still sometimes wonder what Mat Jackson is up to these days. He'd be another welcome returnee, and I'm surprised we've not heard very much from him since that abrupt split with Motorbase. Does anyone know if he still works at McLaren?

Doesn’t appear to have done much, if anything, racing-wise in the past couple of years. According to LinkedIn, looks like he’s been managing his family’s car dealership.