40 replies to this topic

[Todd]

Points / Country
60 / Germany
28 / UK
14 / Brazil
8 / Italy
6 / Columbia
5 / Finland
4 / Canada
3 / France

60/4 drivers = 15 points per German
28/3 drivers = 9.33 points per UKer
6/1 driver = 6 points per Columbian
8/2 drivers = 4 points per Italian
4/1 driver = 4 points per Canadian
14/4 drivers = 3.5 points per Brazilian
5/2 drivers = 2.5 points per Finn
3/2 drivers = 1.5 points per Frenchman

Countries not fairing so well include Spain, the Netheregions and Argentina, who are all pointless. Fairing even less well is the US, whose best road racers all seem to be short a couple of wheels.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Isnt the nations cup (going by CART) done by taking hte highest finishing driver of each country? Instead of all drivers combined

[Todd]

Since when does CART matter?

Okay:
46 points for Germany
28 points for UK
14 points for Brazil
7 points for Italy
6 points for Columbia
5 points for Finland
4 points for Canada
3 points for France

With a possible maximum of 50 points for any Nation at this point, Germany is doing quite well.

[Gary Grant]

And if we're really doing this like CART, can we change

28 points for UK to...

28 points for Scotland???

[Todd]

Gary,

That would be fine for now, but when the Benettons and Jaguars come good and start racking up podiums...

[Ross Stonefeld]

When Ralf becomes austrian does he lose prior points? assuming he does it mid-season

[Todd]

Will the FIA recognize him as Austrian? He is a Monaco citizen now, and his brother is a Swiss citizen.

[Ross Stonefeld]

hmmm, what's the detail/technicality that lists him as a citizen of Switzerland but gives him a German flag and anthem on the podium? Do those countries allow duality or does the FIA let you put down a country (within reason) that may be different from your passport

[Max Torque]

Ahem, it's Colombia, not Columbia.
Columbia is somewhere in the USA I think.

[Todd]

Max,

How. A whole country that doesn't know how to spell.;)

Ross,

I don't know how the FIA decide what citizenship to publicize, but maybe they go with birth citizenship. If they didn't do something, we'd have all Monaco podiums rather often.

[Billy]

I would have thought that MS was a resident of Switzerland but still a citizen of Germany. It takes you 12 years of residence to earn citizenship of Switzerland.

[Pascal]

Todd, no current F1 driver is a citizen of Monaco. The only F1 drivers who can be described as such are Louis Chiron and Olivier Beretta. All others are merely residents.

[Todd]

Is it just a matter of lengthy immigration requirements? What about the children of residents? Do they become citizens of Monaco?

Last night this very US girl I'm seeing told me she has been invited to join the Syrian Olympic team. She has a US born mother, and was born in the US herself, but the Syrians would gladly claim her for international competition. Does anyone understand the guidelines at work?

[Pascal]

Some friends of mine's families have been living in Monaco for more than 5 generations, and they are still not citizens. Becoming Monégasque is probably one of the most difficult thing to do, since it all depends on a decision from the Prince. That said, a Formula 1 driver stands a much better chance than the average Joe because of the fame his citizenship could bring to the Principality.

[Rene]

funny to see how this discussion has become a case study of immigration to Monaco....hehe...


Go Canada!

[Pascal]

Originally posted by Rene
Go Canada!

May I point out that the only Canadian driver in Formula 1 right now not only lives in Monaco, but also grew up there?;)

[Peeko]

She has a US born mother, and was born in the US herself, but the Syrians would gladly claim her for international competition. Does anyone understand the guidelines at work?

Todd, I would think it might be something like Brett Hull's case. Does she have Syrian citizenship?

[SlateGray]

Originally posted by Pascal


May I point out that the only Canadian driver in Formula 1 right now not only lives in Monaco, but also grew up there?;)

Birth to age seven: Quebec, Canada.

[Rene]

Ya....what he said!!!

[Pascal]

And from age seven?;)

[JayWay]

deceased

[LB]

Originally posted by Todd
and his brother is a Swiss citizen.

What Michael is a Watch!!! now.

Good driver for a timepiece..

Oh as Gary said its Scotland, none of this UK or GB baloney.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Scotland is part of the UK, which is why ole DC gets the Union Jack

[baddog]

Its scotland when it suits them and the UK when it suits them. usually whether it suits them is mostly linked to whether it costs them anything... nationalism is best applied to things that dont reduce ones bank balance in the scottish view ;)

Shaun

[GasPed]

I have a friend who has been invited to join the Olympic team of some South Pacific island principality whose name escapes me (it was three letters like V.A.M. or something like that). They were desperate to start up an Olympic team (don't ask me why) and they offered him money, free lodging, benefits, etc. and he didn't even have to live there (just show up once in 3 years or something like that). All he had to do was sign some citizenship papers, but I think the catch was that there would've been some trouble with the Canadian government, since they didn't recognize dual citizenships with this country.

So apparently, it really doesn't take much to become a citizen of some countries. All you need is something they want - i.e. money, looks, athletic ability, etc.

However, re: Todd's squeeze - I'm not sure about a non-citizen competing for a nation, however...

[Gary Grant]

originally posted by baddog

Its scotland when it suits them and the UK when it suits them. usually whether it suits them is mostly linked to whether it costs them anything...

Utterly untrue, of course. - we are very generous. Take myself, for example - I held a big party for my friends over New Year and everyone got a free thimbleful of whisky.;)

I've often wondered how difficult it would be to get, say, citizenship of San Marino, and then see if they'd let me play international football against Zidane, Kluivert etc.....

[Saltire]

Originally posted by baddog
Its scotland when it suits them and the UK when it suits them. usually whether it suits them is mostly linked to whether it costs them anything... nationalism is best applied to things that dont reduce ones bank balance in the scottish view ;)

Shaun

So put a smiley after your post and its okay to insult us.
Is the above statement your personal opinion of Scots or did you obtain it from one of the fascists in the British National Party.

[Ross Stonefeld]

shut up

[baddog]

Originally posted by Saltire


So put a smiley after your post and its okay to insult us.
Is the above statement your personal opinion of Scots or did you obtain it from one of the fascists in the British National Party.

The smiley in my post is to ensure that even those who cannot see intended satire if its shoved in front of their face will realise it is there. It is regrettably a necessary defence mechanism on public forums such as this where you cannot rely on the social capabilities of your audience.

I will refrain from personally insulting you as you have me, as I have no opinion of you.

I will comment on your point, such as it is, though. There is a long tradition of (mostly) friendly banter between people of our two conjoined nations. Most scottish people indulge in this to the fullest and enjoy the cameraderie it brings (not dissimiliar to the fact that you can say things to your closest friends you would never say to an enemy). regrettably there are a few sour apples in any barrel. Neither I nor anyone I know considers scottish people to be parsimonious in any way. My experience of your delightful country and its people has been solely positive and they have been generous and kind to me on my many visits north of the border.

I respectfully ask you never to sink low enough to associate me with fascism in any of its forms, an association so ridiculous as to not in fact offend me but to make me laugh at your presumption. I also hope that your compatriots on this board do not feel too embarrassed at your thoughtless outburst.

Shaun

[404KF2]

Hmmm...

Chill out boys.

Allow me to mount the soap-box for a minute.

Baddog, I think your comment was a provocation, notwithstanding the winki smiley. These smileys are over-used on this BB. As a result they are nearly bereft of meaning, especially as a means of tempering intemperate comments.

I would certainly have reacted negatively to any characterisation of Canadians as "cheese heads", "dumb lumberjacks" or some such.

The reply of Saltire was even more intemperate, although there could ... arguably ... have been a racist element to your provocative posting, that he was reacting to. I'm 100% sure you didn't mean it this way, but - if you are objective - you will be able to see this. That's why your original comment would have been better left unwritten.

Imagine, if you will, comments allegedly made in jest that serve to perhaps poke fun at a visible minority based upon their supposed "stereotypical behaviour". I won't go into detail. This indeed is very dangerous ground. One should always tread around issues of nationalism carefully, especially when one's intentions could be misconstrued.

Soap box dismounted.

Cheers

[baddog]

Originally posted by 404KF2
Hmmm...

Chill out boys.

Allow me to mount the soap-box for a minute.

Baddog, I think your comment was a provocation, notwithstanding the winki smiley. These smileys are over-used on this BB. As a result they are nearly bereft of meaning, especially as a means of tempering intemperate comments.

I would certainly have reacted negatively to any characterisation of Canadians as "cheese heads", "dumb lumberjacks" or some such.

The reply of Saltire was even more intemperate, although there could ... arguably ... have been a racist element to your provocative posting, that he was reacting to. I'm 100% sure you didn't mean it this way, but - if you are objective - you will be able to see this. That's why your original comment would have been better left unwritten.

Imagine, if you will, comments allegedly made in jest that serve to perhaps poke fun at a visible minority based upon their supposed "stereotypical behaviour". I won't go into detail. This indeed is very dangerous ground. One should always tread around issues of nationalism carefully, especially when one's intentions could be misconstrued.

Soap box dismounted.

Cheers

I agree about smilies. frankly in a forum where I knew everyone I would assume that the friendly remark I made was self evident. It should have been. There COULD NOT have been racism involved in my post as there is no distinct racial divide between the people of our nations. I am part irish, and very possibly part scottish too. most scots are part english, and all of us are part german, scandinavian, celtic etc. to have racism first you need two races. we have one living in two countries.

I think noone from england or scotland (the opinion of third parties is irrelevant) reading my post thought I meant it, including saltire. I have been accused of being PC on this board a few times, but this is just silly.

Shaun

[Saltire]

Originally posted by baddog


The smiley in my post is to ensure that even those who cannot see intended satire if its shoved in front of their face will realise it is there. It is regrettably a necessary defence mechanism on public forums such as this where you cannot rely on the social capabilities of your audience.

I will refrain from personally insulting you as you have me, as I have no opinion of you.

I will comment on your point, such as it is, though. There is a long tradition of (mostly) friendly banter between people of our two conjoined nations. Most scottish people indulge in this to the fullest and enjoy the cameraderie it brings (not dissimiliar to the fact that you can say things to your closest friends you would never say to an enemy). regrettably there are a few sour apples in any barrel. Neither I nor anyone I know considers scottish people to be parsimonious in any way. My experience of your delightful country and its people has been solely positive and they have been generous and kind to me on my many visits north of the border.

I respectfully ask you never to sink low enough to associate me with fascism in any of its forms, an association so ridiculous as to not in fact offend me but to make me laugh at your presumption. I also hope that your compatriots on this board do not feel too embarrassed at your thoughtless outburst.

Shaun

I understand and apologise for jumping to the wrong conclusion here.

In my defence I would like to state that for the short time I have been here I have taken offence on a number of occasions to the abusive comments about my country. I refrained from responding in kind until now and have picked the wrong target- my mistake.

My reference to the British National Party you will have to understand did not imply that you had any connection with them only that almost indentical but in their case not tongue-in-cheek comments have been made by spokespersons from that organization.

I may have been over- sensitive here, but what you said in fun others have been rather more serious about

[baddog]

Originally posted by Saltire


I understand and apologise for jumping to the wrong conclusion here.

In my defence I would like to state that for the short time I have been here I have taken offence on a number of occasions to the abusive comments about my country. I refrained from responding in kind until now and have picked the wrong target- my mistake.

My reference to the British National Party you will have to understand did not imply that you had any connection with them only that almost indentical but in their case not tongue-in-cheek comments have been made by spokespersons from that organization.

I may have been over- sensitive here, but what you said in fun others have been rather more serious about

Understood. I reacted angrily to your post because I have found scots, like the irish, to be more than good sports about this kind of banter (in fact most seem to regard it as almost compulsory, I have been called a godless sassenach more times than i could count) so I was surprised, also the BNP reference... well you see how that sounded!

anyway, no offence in the end either way Im sure

Shaun

[Saltire]

Originally posted by baddog


I agree about smilies. frankly in a forum where I knew everyone I would assume that the friendly remark I made was self evident. It should have been. There COULD NOT have been racism involved in my post as there is no distinct racial divide between the people of our nations. I am part irish, and very possibly part scottish too. most scots are part english, and all of us are part german, scandinavian, celtic etc. to have racism first you need two races. we have one living in two countries.

I think noone from england or scotland (the opinion of third parties is irrelevant) reading my post thought I meant it, including saltire. I have been accused of being PC on this board a few times, but this is just silly.

Shaun

Firstly - initial hasty response to each other- hatchet buried.

404KF2 - raised a few points worth debating and I am interested in your response.
The term "race" can mean different things to different people. You believe that the inhabitants of the British Isles Irish, Scots, English and Welsh are the same race in it's strict meaning but that could apply to the whole of Northern Europe. The "Celtic Fringe" of Ireland, Scotland and Wales each have distinct differences in culture and langauge from Anglo Saxon England. Our ethnic origin is no more akin to Anglo Saxons than the Spanish to the Germans or the Japanese are to the Chinese.

[baddog]

Originally posted by Saltire

404KF2 - raised a few points worth debating and I am interested in your response.
The term "race" can mean different things to different people. You believe that the inhabitants of the British Isles Irish, Scots, English and Welsh are the same race in it's strict meaning but that could apply to the whole of Northern Europe. The "Celtic Fringe" of Ireland, Scotland and Wales each have distinct differences in culture and langauge from Anglo Saxon England. Our ethnic origin is no more akin to Anglo Saxons than the Spanish to the Germans or the Japanese are to the Chinese.

I regard it more as a 'tendency' than an actual race.. certainly there is MUCH more crossover than the other examples you mentioned. Sure there is a higher proportion of 'celtic' background in the scottish population than the english.. but few know how much and not many persons (apart from the few who have well traced ancestry) know they are not part anglo-saxon or whatever. Being truly 'scottish' or 'english' has nothing to do with genetics basically. These nations are nations not just regions, but races? the irish may be more so but the scots and english are I think too intermingled to really describe themselves that way. Other regions of europe have, on the whole, maintained far stricter national boundaries and are comparatively less racially mixed. This is one of britains more charming features, her lack of a racial strand of her own.

Shaun

[thistle]

I reckon DC wouldn't have a saltire on his helmet unless
he felt scottish, rather than british. Probably the majority
of scots feel the same.

DC might prefer "flower of scotland" to the UK anthem...
I know I would!

BTW I don't mind being slagged off for being mean anyway!

Could EI's points for Jaguar count as Ireland? When he
gets them of course!

[Garagiste]

Whoa, let's not get into the Ulster question, there have been enough frayed tempers here already!
Actually, do I dimly recall some argument about EI, regarding whether the Union Flag or the Tricolore should be raised on the podium?

And BTW, Why does Jordan have the Irish national anthem played when they win a GP? I don't recall crossing the Irish Sea to get to Silverstone:confused:

[BRG]

Originally posted by Garagiste
I don't recall crossing the Irish Sea to get to Silverstone

With all the flooded fields, it just looks like the Irish Sea ;)
But you don't have to be located in Ireland to be Irish. Take the case of Bennetton, who were first British, then became Italian and now presumably will be French, all without leaving Enstone.

[LB]

I was only kidding guys. Though since Franchittis points go to Scotland in the nations cup I don't see the problem..

and BTW I'm Scottish 100% of the time , except on my passport

[Nomad]

Yet again...
Jordan is not an Irish team, the irish national anthem is not played when the teams wins (check out Spa 98, France 99)...no Jordan is a British team and that terrible dirge 'God save the Queen' is played when they win a race

[Garagiste]

Nomad,
Not true. Spa '98 God save the Queen was for Damon, and that time they didn't play a constructors' anthem, because they correctly regarded Jordan as British.
The next win though, they DID play the Irish NA, which even took Murray by surprise who was just saying "and now, for Jordan, the British.." when it started up.
They then played this tune nobody had heard before, and Murray covered with "My apologies to Eddie Jordan, blah blah".

I couldn't agree more about GSTQ though, it's difficult to imagine a more pedestrian tune to play at a GP.