228 replies to this topic

[hittheapex]

The nations section of the series has ended, next the first of two special top 10s: The Fastest of All Time.

 

After much deliberation, my top 10 is as follows:

 

1. Juan Manuel Fangio-Yes he had the best car through much of his career, but this is something that many of the greats enjoyed as well. Staggering numbers.

2. Jim Clark-A smooth driver like Prost, but even faster. Has speed ever looked so effortless? 33 poles in total, how many would he have taken if not for his premature end?

3. Ayrton Senna-A force of nature, breathtaking to watch.

4. Gilles Villenueve-At times his speed was beyond comprehension.

5. Alberto Ascari-One of the two rivals Fangio feared the most. The other being Stirling Moss.

6. Lewis Hamilton-Rule him out for pole position at your peril, even in cars that shouldn't have a chance of the race win the following day.

7. Stirling Moss-Endorsed by the Maestro, does praise come any higher than that?

8. Jochen Rindt-A superb driver, particularly over one lap. 10 pole positions in a short career.

9. Sebastien Vettel-The Red Bull wasn't always the fastest car and he often made the difference.

10. Mario Andretti-Very quick and will never have to buy a meal in Italy after putting the Ferrari on pole in his first race with the car in 1982.

 

 

[RPM40]

I doubt any of the older school drivers are realistically on the list. The modern drivers are just better, they train from a young age and have far better nutrition and telemetry based science.

[Currahee]

I like the story of Jim Clark coming off the circuit at Charterhall wondering why everyone was lapping so slowly.

"No Jimmy, you were lapping so bloddy fast"

[ANF]

Jacques Villeneuve was very fast.

[nordschleife]

1.    Fangio

2.    Clark

3.    Senna

4.    Hamilton

5.    Schumacher

6.    Prost

7.    Stewart

8.    Vettel

9.    Hakkinen

10.  Moss

[PlayboyRacer]

Jacques Villeneuve was very fast.

https://www.youtube....h?v=fRH75RyTgKk

When there is the list of 'top 10 bravest F1 drivers of all time' I expect Jacques near the top, perhaps just behind his old man!

[PlayboyRacer]

From early 80s to today

1. Senna
2. Hamilton
3. G.Villeneuve
4. M.Schumacher
5. Alonso
6. Prost
7. Piquet
8. K.Rosberg
9. Mansell
10. Vettel

[john winfield]

1.  J Clark

2.  L Hamilton

3.  A Senna

4.  JM Fangio

5.  J Rindt

6.  R Peterson

7.  J Stewart

8.  M Schumacher

9.  G Villeneuve

10. J Ickx

Edited by john winfield, 01 January 2019 - 00:42.

[HP]

Nobody mentioned Montoya yet? Especially on cold tires he was one of the best.

 

But everything is rather subjective though. Prost wasn't a great qualifier, didn't look to good in the rain in his later part of his F1  career. Yet overall he won numerous races.

 

Maybe a good starting point is this:

 

Compute average starting position vs. teammate(s).

Add to it average race finish position when everything went smooth for both drivers.

Develop a formula to minimize car advantage from the results above.

Interesting are situations where those at the top of the list competed against each other. Need to be factored in.

 

Result will still be kind of subjective, but at least it will look "scientific"..

[PlayboyRacer]

I think its a bit of a myth that Prost wasn't 'a great qualifier' or lacked the pure speed that others could call on. Perhaps it was more that he wasn't spectacular?

Also worth pointing out... how many seasons did Prost have the outright fastest car for the majority of a season? And seasons when he did, such as 1988/89, there was one Ayrton Senna sitting in the other Marlboro McLaren...

86? The Williams was fastest. 84/85 McLaren had the best car but Brabham in 84 with Piquet were qualifying kings.

I feel Prosts 'pure speed' is overlooked and its very much because of these factors. Say he'd vetoed Senna at McLaren and romped the 88/89 titles, how many more poles could we throw onto his stats?

Then look at the list of teammates he had. Prost for me is one of a handful of true greats and I always thought he was super quick and intelligent. I still rate his '86 championship as possibly the best I have seen.

[RacingGreen]

Looking at the raw top 10 "fastest" statistics there are eight names (in bold) on both lists, who I guess must all be considered among the fastest F1 drivers of all time.

 

No of Pole Positions as % of Starts

 1  Juan Manuel Fangio  (50%)

 2  Jim Clark  (46%)

 3  Ayrton Senna  (40%)

 4  Alberto Ascari   (39%)

 5  Lewis Hamilton  (36%)

 6  Sebastian Vettel   (25%)

 7=  Stirling Moss   (22%)

 7=  Michael Schumacher  (22%)

 Bill Vukovich  (20%)

 Dick Rathmann  (20%)

 Walt Faulkner  (20%)

 9=  Damon Hill  (17%)

 9=  Nigel Mansell  (17%)

 9= Jackie Stewart  (17%)

 Jack McGrath  (17%)

 9= Jochen Rindt  (17%)

 Mike Parkes  (17%)

 Pat Flaherty  (17%)

 9= Alain Prost  (17%)

 

 

No of Fastest Laps as % of Starts

 1  Masahiro Hasemi  (100%)

 Bill Vukovich  (60%)

 Lee Wallard   (50%)

 2  Juan Manuel Fangio (41%)

 3  Jim Clark  (39%)

 4  Alberto Ascari  (33%)

 5=  Stirling Moss  (25%)

 5=  Michael Schumacher  (25%)

 7=  José Froilán González  (21%)

 7=  Alain Prost  (21%)

 9=  Lewis Hamilton  (17%)

 Jack McGrath  (17%)

 Jim Rathmann  (17%)

 9=  Damon Hill  (17%)

 

Note I've included World Championship races run under F2 rules, but excluded World Championship races run as the Indy 500, just in case anyone was wondering why some names were crossed out.

Edited by RacingGreen, 01 January 2019 - 03:19.

[RPM40]

It shouldn't go unnoticed that Prost actually outscored Senna both seasons too. The fact that the car would always be on pole meant he could focus on race setup and still knowingly qualify p2. Back when fuel and tyre management were very important. 

[Collombin]

Hasemi's fastest lap was an error, Laffite was actually fastest.

Prost was incredibly fast in the first part of his career, I think people are only remembering the more cerebral, intelligent, and yes, slower Prost of later years. Even in that later period, he could still show a blistering turn of pace occasionally (Suzuka 1987 for example).

[PayasYouRace]

What I always read about Prost was that he was fast, he just never looked fast.

[as65p]

It shouldn't go unnoticed that Prost actually outscored Senna both seasons too. The fact that the car would always be on pole meant he could focus on race setup and still knowingly qualify p2. Back when fuel and tyre management were very important. 

 

Well it should also be noticed that there was no cunning masterplan behind Prosts tactic. Just like Lauda in 1984/85, the simple fact was that he had no chance against his teammate in qualifying, so he had to try and make up for it in other areas. Yet, and that's what mostly goes unnoticed, it still wasn't enough most of the time to beat Senna in the races. What Prost was really still better at when they were paired at McLaren was to keep out of trouble and benefit from any mechanical or other trouble Senna encountered. In 1988 they were still races Prost won on merit (Mexico, France, Estoril and Jerez spring to mind) but by 1989 Senna had him well covered in qualifying and the races.

[AustinF1]

I think its a bit of a myth that Prost wasn't 'a great qualifier' or lacked the pure speed that others could call on. Perhaps it was more that he wasn't spectacular?

Also worth pointing out... how many seasons did Prost have the outright fastest car for the majority of a season? And seasons when he did, such as 1988/89, there was one Ayrton Senna sitting in the other Marlboro McLaren...

86? The Williams was fastest. 84/85 McLaren had the best car but Brabham in 84 with Piquet were qualifying kings.

I feel Prosts 'pure speed' is overlooked and its very much because of these factors. Say he'd vetoed Senna at McLaren and romped the 88/89 titles, how many more poles could we throw onto his stats?

Then look at the list of teammates he had. Prost for me is one of a handful of true greats and I always thought he was super quick and intelligent. I still rate his '86 championship as possibly the best I have seen.

Agreed, and I notice you were the first to mention Alonso. I also think it's a bit of a myth that he's not a good/great qualifier. 

[garoidb]

Prost was incredibly fast in the first part of his career, I think people are only remembering the more cerebral, intelligent, and yes, slower Prost of later years. Even in that later period, he could still show a blistering turn of pace occasionally (Suzuka 1987 for example).

 

This is connected to something I posted about in the Brazilian thread, a tendency to frame all judgements of Prost and Piquet (and perhaps others) only within the period of their careers that overlapped with Senna and then make no allowance for career stage (link to earlier post). It distorts perspective. It might have also happened to Senna against Schumacher, but tragic events dictated otherwise.

[Trust]

Raikkonen in his prime.

[F1Champion]

The nations section of the series has ended, next the first of two special top 10s: The Fastest of All Time.

 

After much deliberation, my top 10 is as follows:

 

1. Juan Manuel Fangio-Yes he had the best car through much of his career, but this is something that many of the greats enjoyed as well. Staggering numbers.

2. Jim Clark-A smooth driver like Prost, but even faster. Has speed ever looked so effortless? 33 poles in total, how many would he have taken if not for his premature end?

3. Ayrton Senna-A force of nature, breathtaking to watch.

4. Gilles Villenueve-At times his speed was beyond comprehension.

5. Alberto Ascari-One of the two rivals Fangio feared the most. The other being Stirling Moss.

6. Lewis Hamilton-Rule him out for pole position at your peril, even in cars that shouldn't have a chance of the race win the following day.

7. Stirling Moss-Endorsed by the Maestro, does praise come any higher than that?

8. Jochen Rindt-A superb driver, particularly over one lap. 10 pole positions in a short career.

9. Sebastien Vettel-The Red Bull wasn't always the fastest car and he often made the difference.

10. Mario Andretti-Very quick and will never have to buy a meal in Italy after putting the Ferrari on pole in his first race with the car in 1982.

 

 

Vettel over Schumacher?? Are you for real? I'd put Alonso over Vettel using the same description.....didn't always have the fastest cars and often made the difference.

[Loosenut]

I think Michael Schumacher has to be measured in 2 parts 1.0 and 2.0
Anyone who doesn't have him in their top 10 must have missed a lot of F1!

I think I terms of outright speed, I could probably put Senna, Schumacher, Alonso, Montoya & Hamilton == No1. On any given day, in the same car, it would just be a lottery.

[PlayboyRacer]

Agreed, and I notice you were the first to mention Alonso. I also think it's a bit of a myth that he's not a good/great qualifier.

Absolutely. Alonso is one of the fastest and most relentless Grand Prix drivers I have ever seen. No matter the equipment... he's never relented. His race pace alone puts him in this group.

Fastest isn't just about a banzai qualy lap. Not for me anyway.

[hittheapex]

I think Michael Schumacher has to be measured in 2 parts 1.0 and 2.0
Anyone who doesn't have him in their top 10 must have missed a lot of F1!

Not at all, just a different opinion. Although my top 10 is based on qualifying laps rather than race pace.

Edited by hittheapex, 01 January 2019 - 12:06.

[Requiem84]

Where is Jarno Trulli??!

[PlayboyRacer]

I think Michael Schumacher has to be measured in 2 parts 1.0 and 2.0
Anyone who doesn't have him in their top 10 must have missed a lot of F1!

I think I terms of outright speed, I could probably put Senna, Schumacher, Alonso, Montoya & Hamilton == No1. On any given day, in the same car, it would just be a lottery.

Montoya? That's a serious stretch. I was a big JPM fan dating back to his F3000/CART days and he was super quick on his day no question, right car, right situation etc. Thing is though you can make a case for so many drivers given that.

Surely a top 10 of all time has to be the absolute elite who did it relentlessly, no matter the car, year and situation. I mean surely if Montoya is there, then so is a driver like Raikkonen.

Perhaps we need a top 50 fastest ever... That'd spark lively debate!

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 01 January 2019 - 12:15.

[PayasYouRace]

Where is Jarno Trulli??!

 

Holding up a huge train of faster cars.

[ensign14]

I doubt any of the older school drivers are realistically on the list. The modern drivers are just better, they train from a young age and have far better nutrition and telemetry based science.

 

Except that, given the same nutrition and telemetry and so on, the older drivers would doubtless have been able to cope.  Like the younger drivers, if translated to back then, wouldn't have given a thought to the lack of safety belts and lack of rollbar and racing where the first thing you hit is a tree or a spectator.

 

But before you diss the nutrition, no current F1 driver has ever raced for more than 3 hours at a time.  Moss set the fastest Mille Miglia time ever with 10 continuous hours at the wheel.  Without power steering and while having to change gear manually. 

[Requiem84]

Holding up a huge train of faster cars.

..which were behind him because he always qualified faster.

[ANF]

With a lighter fuel load?

[Requiem84]

Except that, given the same nutrition and telemetry and so on, the older drivers would doubtless have been able to cope. Like the younger drivers, if translated to back then, wouldn't have given a thought to the lack of safety belts and lack of rollbar and racing where the first thing you hit is a tree or a spectator.

But before you diss the nutrition, no current F1 driver has ever raced for more than 3 hours at a time. Moss set the fastest Mille Miglia time ever with 10 continuous hours at the wheel. Without power steering and while having to change gear manually.

Personally, I think F1 is not too different from other sports. 99% of the currebt athletes are miles better than their counterparts in the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s, 80’s and 90’s. If you look at any given workd record back then.. it’s been shattered now.

Not because the current gemeration is better inherently, but because they profited from a greater understanding of how to get performance by training, resting, technique, nutrition etc.

Current F1 drivers have a massively better preparation towards F1 then the guys in the 60’s who were basically just doing what they felt was right.

I’d bet that Ericsson would beat Fangio by a mile in equal machinery because of the above.

Does that make Ericsson better than Fangio? I think not, because you have to measure performance relative to your peers who were groomed in the same circumstances.

[boillot]

My humble opinion, in no particular order:

Ascari, Fangio, Clark, Prost, Senna, Piquet, G. Villeneuve, Moss, Hamilton, Schumacher, Alonso being honorably mentioned.

While today’s drivers may be better than ever in absolute terms, I tried to rate the drivers in the context of time and their peers.

Edited by boillot, 01 January 2019 - 12:40.

[Loosenut]

Montoya? That's a serious stretch.

Maybe yes, I'm still drunk from last night.
On his day I guess, but then that could cover a lot more names in that case. But certainly the others.

[Loosenut]

Not at all, just a different opinion. Although my top 10 is based on qualifying laps rather than race pace.

He has 91 pole positions!
In my opinion, the earth is flat..

[AlexPrime]

Based on what I have heard and read, Jimmy Clark. Although Fangio surely has to be mentioned as well from the drivers of old. 
From the drivers I have been able to witness, although in this case mostly from old videos, Senna by a country mile, really amazing driver. After that come Schumacher, Prost, Hamilton, Vettel, Hakkinen, Mansell and Alonso.

[PlayboyRacer]

Maybe yes, I'm still drunk from last night.

Oh well in that case please don't mind me, do your thing! Haha

[Collombin]

Except that, given the same nutrition and telemetry and so on, the older drivers would doubtless have been able to cope. Like the younger drivers, if translated to back then, wouldn't have given a thought to the lack of safety belts and lack of rollbar and racing where the first thing you hit is a tree or a spectator.

But before you diss the nutrition, no current F1 driver has ever raced for more than 3 hours at a time. Moss set the fastest Mille Miglia time ever with 10 continuous hours at the wheel. Without power steering and while having to change gear manually.

But nutrition and training are so much better these days that your average 12 year old karter would be able to easily match that feat - but wouldn't need to because their skills are so much greater these days that they could probably complete the course in about 5 hours rather than Moss' 10, as Moss didn't really know what he was doing compared to today's kids who have telemetry and magic and stuff.

And anyway, Moss should have been a drugs DQ for taking one of Fangio's tablets. I don't know what the potential side effects were, but let's just say Jenks had a ridiculous amount of toilet paper on board.

[PlatenGlass]

I'm not going to order these, but from the mid eighties onwards in chronological order, I might put Senna, Hakkinen, Schumacher, Trulli, Alonso, Raikkonen (at McLaren only!) Hamilton, Vettel, Ricciardo, Verstappen.

That said, I'm not sure "outright pace" is really a thing, and some drivers are only fast in situations that perfectly suit them, so pace is relative to circumstances. Also, I've missed out drivers like Prost, Mansell and Piquet. Possibly harsh, but when you look at the qualifying gulf that there was between Senna and Prost, and that Prost was shown up particularly for having a weakness at street circuits, I find it very hard to believe that these other drivers wouldn't have got closer. I think the standard is higher overall now. That's not to say I think all these drivers were overall better than Prost (e.g. Trulli!), but I think at their qualifying best they probably were.

[HeadFirst]

In no particular order (drivers from mid 60's on) Clark, Peterson, Senna, Andretti, Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso, Raikkonnen, Villeneuves both G and J. +2 more ... Prost and Schumacher.

[ArrowsLivery]

But nutrition and training are so much better these days that your average 12 year old karter would be able to easily match that feat - but wouldn't need to because their skills are so much greater these days that they could probably complete the course in about 5 hours rather than Moss' 10, as Moss didn't really know what he was doing compared to today's kids who have telemetry and magic and stuff.

And anyway, Moss should have been a drugs DQ for taking one of Fangio's tablets. I don't know what the potential side effects were, but let's just say Jenks had a ridiculous amount of toilet paper on board.

Don’t tell me you believe this garbage, please.

[Collombin]

Don’t tell me you believe this garbage, please.

Of course not. I bit my tongue at post #2, but the Ericsson beating Fangio in equal machinery pushed me over the edge.

[messy]

"Speed" is overrated. There also seems to be this thing where people worship drivers who have that last tenth over a qualifying lap but there's so much more to it isn't there? For me, give me a Fernando Alonso over a Sebastian Vettel. Maybe Alonso lacks a tenth or two compared to Seb when everything's hooked up on a flying lap round a modern F1 track like Singapore, but over a race distance you take into account

Racecraft
Consistency
In/Out laps
Dealing with starts
Fuel management
Tyre management
Handling pressure
Driving around problems
Physical fitness
Changes in temperature, weather, track conditions
Radio communications
Planning through a race

Could go on. Being quick over a single lap is all well and good, but the likes of Senna and Schumacher weren't great because they were fast, they were great because they had a good balance of all the stuff you need. Prost was just as great as Senna in my view. The balance on Prost's side was probably slightly different, but don't forget that quite often in the races he was just as quick as Senna and (whisper it) sometimes faster.

[boillot]

^
That's actually an excellent post.

[BobbyRicky]

Bottas hit 372kph in Mexico. Fastest man in F1 so far.

[LesBaguettes]

Leclerc.

[teejay]

Op - your post reads more like "best" rather than fastest. 

 

In terms of outright speed the list should be very different. 

[AustinF1]

"Speed" is overrated. There also seems to be this thing where people worship drivers who have that last tenth over a qualifying lap but there's so much more to it isn't there? For me, give me a Fernando Alonso over a Sebastian Vettel. Maybe Alonso lacks a tenth or two compared to Seb when everything's hooked up on a flying lap round a modern F1 track like Singapore, but over a race distance you take into account

Racecraft
Consistency
In/Out laps
Dealing with starts
Fuel management
Tyre management
Handling pressure
Driving around problems
Physical fitness
Changes in temperature, weather, track conditions
Radio communications
Planning through a race

Could go on. Being quick over a single lap is all well and good, but the likes of Senna and Schumacher weren't great because they were fast, they were great because they had a good balance of all the stuff you need. Prost was just as great as Senna in my view. The balance on Prost's side was probably slightly different, but don't forget that quite often in the races he was just as quick as Senna and (whisper it) sometimes faster.

 

^
That's actually an excellent post.

 

Yes, it is. While I think Alonso is underrated by many as a qualifier, I do think his biggest strength is his overall excellence in all of those areas mentioned above, and more. Consistently bringing the complete package to the table is where he and a small, select group have truly set themselves apart, imho.

[hittheapex]

Op - your post reads more like "best" rather than fastest. 

 

In terms of outright speed the list should be very different. 

Obviously, I would disagree. Particularly as my top 10 of all time list would look quite different.

[PlayboyRacer]

In no particular order (drivers from mid 60's on) Clark, Peterson, Senna, Andretti, Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso, Raikkonnen, Villeneuves both G and J. +2 more ... Prost and Schumacher.

Great to see J.Villeneuve for once getting some much due credit. In his prime through CART and the first half of his F1 career, there was no one else that mixed pure speed and brass balls so sensationally.

Still can recall the shock the likes of Patrick Head had seeing JV's bravery through 130R and Eau Rouge. His pole laps at both venues in 96/97 were insane.

[sopa]

Personally, I think F1 is not too different from other sports. 99% of the currebt athletes are miles better than their counterparts in the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s, 80’s and 90’s. If you look at any given workd record back then.. it’s been shattered now.
 

 

Some of the East German world records still stand. 

 

None of the modern advances can beat proper state-sponsored doping. 

[Spillage]

I'd put Senna at number 1 for some seriously amazing qualifying performances. He beat Prost comfortably, and Prost was still fast enough to dominate Damon Hill in 1993. Fangio and Clark were also very rarely outqualified; nor was Schumacher before the introduction of race-ful qualifying.

 

Hamilton must feature on the list, although he's beaten by teammates on a Saturday much more often than the four drivers I've already mentioned.

 

I'm a bit sceptical about a couple of the guys widely regarded as really, really fast. Ronnie Peterson, for instance, was beaten 11-3 by Andretti in 1978. Similarly Gilles Villeneuve was pretty much matched by Scheckter in 1979.

 

Here's a full list of the head-to-head qualifying records of the each season's world champion, if it helps:

 

2018 - Hamilton 15-6 Bottas

2017 – Hamilton 13-7 Bottas
2016 – Rosberg 9-12 Hamilton
2015 – Hamilton 12-7 Rosberg
2014 – Hamilton 7-12 Rosberg
2013 – Vettel 17-2 Webber
2012 – Vettel 11-9 Webber
2011 – Vettel 17-2 Webber
2010 – Vettel 12-7 Webber
2009 – Button 7-10 Barrichello*
2008 – Hamilton 14-4 Kovalainen*
2007 – Raikkonen 8-9 Massa*
2006 – Alonso 12-6 Fisichella*
2005 – Alonso 14-5 Fisichella*
2004 – Schumacher 13-5 Barrichello*
2003 – Schumacher 10-6 Barrichello*
2002 – Schumacher 13-4 Barrichello
2001 – Schumacher 16-1 Barrichello
2000 – Schumacher 15-2 Barrichello
1999 – Hakkinen 13-3 Coulthard
1998 – Hakkinen 13-3 Coulthard
1997 – Villeneuve 13-4 Frentzen
1996 – Hill 13-3 Villeneuve
1995 – Schumacher 16-1 Herbert
1994 – Schumacher 8-0 Verstappen; Schumacher 4-0 Lehto; Schumacher 2-0 Herbert
1993 – Prost 14-2 Hill
1992 – Mansell 14-2 Patrese
1991 – Senna 13-3 Berger
1990 – Senna 12-4 Berger
1989 – Prost 2-14 Senna
1988 – Senna 14-2 Prost
1987 – Piquet 5-10 Mansell; Piquet 1-0 Patrese
1986 – Prost 12-4 Rosberg
1985 – Prost 14-1 Lauda; Prost 1-0 Watson
1984 – Lauda 1-15 Prost
1983 – Piquet 10-5 Patrese
1982 – Rosberg 2-0 Reutemann; Rosberg 1-0 Andretti; Rosberg 11-1 Daly
1981 – Piquet 16-0 Rebaque
1980 – Jones 8-6 Reutemann
1979 – Scheckter 7-8 Villeneuve
1978 – Andretti 11-3 Peterson; Andretti 1-1 Jarier
1977 – Lauda 8-7 Reutemann
1976 – Hunt 15-1 Mass
1975 – Lauda 14-0 Regazzoni
1974 – Fittipaldi 14-1 Hulme; Fittipaldi 10-1 Hailwood; Fittipaldi 2-0 Hobbs; Fittipaldi 2-0 Mass
1973 – Stewart 11-4 Cevert; Stewart 2-0 Amon
1972 – Fittipaldi 10-0 Walker; Fittipaldi 3-0 Wisell
1971 – Stewart 10-1 Cevert; Stewart 1-0 Revson
1970 – Rindt 9-0 Miles; Rindt 3-0 Soler-Roig; Rindt 3-0 Fittipaldi
1969 – Stewart 10-1 Beltoise; Stewart 3-0 Servoz-Gavin
1968 – Hill 0-1 Clark; Hill 9-0 Oliver; Hill 1-1 Andretti; Hill 1-0 Brack; Hill 1-0 Solana
1967 – Hulme 2-9 Brabham
1966 – Brabham 8-1 Hulme; Brabham 1-0 Irwin
1965 – Clark 9-0 Spence; Clark 1-0 Mitter; Clark 1-0 Geki; Clark 2-0 Solana
1964 – Surtees 9-1 Bandini; Surtees 1-0 Scarfiotti; Surtees 1-0 Rodriguez
1963 – Clark 9-0 Taylor; Clark 1-0 Arundell; Clark 1-0 Spence; Clark 2-0 Rodriguez
1962 – G. Hill 8-1 Ginther
1961 – P. Hill 6-1 von Trips; P. Hill 5-2 Ginther; P. Hill 1-0 Gendebien; P. Hill 1-0 Mairesse; P. Hill 1-0 Rodriguez
1960 – Brabham 8-0 McLaren; Brabham 1-0 Daigh; Brabham 1-0 Flockhart
1959 – Brabham 7-0 McLaren; Brabham 6-0 Gregory; Brabham 1-0 Scarlatti
1958 – Hawthorn 7-0 Collins; Hawthorn 5-0 Musso; Hawthorn 6-0 von Trips; Hawthorn 3-0 Gendebien; Hawthorn 2-0 P. Hill
1957 – Fangio 0-1 Moss; Fangio 4-1 Behra; Fangio 4-0 Menditeguy; Fangio 3-0 Scarlatti; Fangio 5-0 Schell; Fangio 1-0 Herrmann
1956 – Fangio 7-0 Castellotti; Fangio 7-0 Collins; Fangio 4-0 Musso; Fangio 2-0 Gendebien; Fangio 1-0 Frère; Fangio 1-0 Pilette; Fangio 4-0 de Portago; Fangio 1-0 von Trips
1955 – Fangio 5-1 Moss; Fangio 5-0 Kling; Fangio 2-0 Herrmann; Fangio 1-0 Simon; Fangio 2-0 Taruffi
1954 – Fangio 2-0 Marimón; Fangio 1-0 Musso; Fangio 1-0 Bira; Fangio 1-0 Mantovani; Fangio 6-0 Kling; Fangio 5-0 Herrmann; Fangio 1-0 Lang
1953 – Ascari 8-0 Farina; Ascari 8-0 Villoresi; Ascari 8-0 Hawthorn; Ascari 1-0 Maglioli; Ascari 1-0 Carini
1952 – Ascari 6-1 Farina; Ascari 6-0 Taruffi; Ascari 2-0 Simon; Ascari 2-0 Villoresi
1951 – Fangio 7-0 Farina; Fangio 3-0 de Graffenried; Fangio 4-0 Sanesi; Fangio 1-0 Fagioli; Fangio 4-0 Bonetto; Fangio 1-0 Pietsch
1950 – Farina 2-4 Fangio; Farina 6-0 Fagioli; Farina 1-0 Parnell; Farina 1-0 Sanesi; Farina 1-0 Taruffi

*Denotes seasons qualifying with race fuel.

 

Some of the 1950s data is a bit misleading as it was the car that qualified, rather than the driver. For example, I don't think Behra was actually behind the wheel on the one occasion his car outqualified Fangio's in 1957.

Edited by Spillage, 02 January 2019 - 12:19.

[sopa]

 

I'm a bit sceptical about a couple of the guys widely regarded as really, really fast. Ronnie Peterson, for instance, was beaten 11-3 by Andretti in 1978. Similarly Gilles Villeneuve was pretty much matched by Scheckter in 1979.

 

 

I think the thing with Peterson is that he looked genuinely super-quick for a few years. He made Niki Lauda look like an unimpressive paydriver and outqualified Fittipaldi convincingly. Ickx couldn't get near him either. However, I view Peterson as a bit like Raikkonen. His star shined brightly for a while, but then it faded. Before teaming up with Andretti he couldn't outpace Depailler in the Tyrrell either. The biggest tragedy (apart from death obviously) of Peterson's career is that some of his peak seasons happened to be in rubbish cars. Like the 1974-5 Lotus.