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2019 - MotoGP, Moto2-3, WSBK, MotoE, WSS, BSB, MotoAmerica, etc.


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#2551 NixxxoN

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 10:33

Maybe he’s the one we need in MotoGP to beat his brother.

 

That would be like Ralf Schumacher fighting Michael. Maybe there would be an odd race where Marc struggles and Alex has a perfect bike and everything is perfect for him and beats him to win, thats about it



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#2552 ForzaFormula

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 11:14

The Honda is fast but I think Marquez would win on any bike. Funnily enough only Pedrosa came close to getting what he does out of the Honda. That’s gotta make Honda a bit nervous for the future if they don’t find a rider who can get similar results.

 

Your forgetting about Crutchlow who has never even been given a chance on the Factory bike despite his past speed showing he should of been given one. He was often the closest one to Marc on speed at least. He's been struggling with injuries and yes he's not the most consistent often crashing but he's usually always in the top 10 on out right pace on what has mostly been a dog of a bike to ride, and is always sitting in the top 10 of the best riders in moto GP in the standings. He's been a great asset in the past for Honda with development feedback for the bike, and he could of easily matched Pedrosa's results at minimum on that factory bike. But I think his time is gradually coming to an end due to injuries and lack of motivation setting in now, so Honda need to find someone of similar qualities in development and speed, Zarco is being given a test it looks like with this but I think he will have to at least match Cal, which will be difficult considering how hard that Honda is to ride.



#2553 Kulturen

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 12:06

The Honda may be hard to ride but I think the problem is accentuated by Honda not hiring proper freaking riders to ride their bikes. An old, pained, out of form Crutchlow that doesn't like the bike and isn't even on the factory team finished fifth today. So even if Marc is the only one who can push the Honda and win on it, it's not a bad bike and neither is it "impossible" to ride.

 

I said before that I'm getting annoyed at Honda for not putting enough out there. Field 4 factory supported bikes and hire some riders whose styles fit the bike or are willing to learn. If Crutchlow got injured and couldn't ride, we'd essentially have 1 freaking Honda out there. that's ridiculous.



#2554 Disgrace

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 12:08

Or indeed if anything put Marquez out of action, Honda would be plunged into a crisis overnight.



#2555 Kulturen

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 12:08

We also seem to have like half a genertation of riders spoiled by the "easy-mode" Yamaha who refuse to ride anything else. Honda should do more to actively recruit the more rugged dirt-trackers.


Edited by Kulturen, 20 October 2019 - 17:41.


#2556 sopa

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 12:56

Lorenzo hasn't finished even a single race in top 10 this season. Even Ben Spies' season in 2012 alongside world championship winning team-mate was better than that.



#2557 sopa

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 13:19

By the way, in this Moto GP season there is still one point of interest left - 3rd in the championship. Rins and Vinales are tied. Petrucci has been underwhelming for a while, but still hanging in there on consistency (not a single DNF all season). Interestingly Quartararo might catch that group if he keeps finishing at the front along with Marquez. It would be a major feat if Fabio could finish 3rd this season in what is his rookie season. Dovi has been runner-up for 3 consecutive seasons in Moto GP, but Quartararo seems poised to take over from him as the runner-up in future seasons.



#2558 NixxxoN

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 14:08

By the way, in this Moto GP season there is still one point of interest left - 3rd in the championship. Rins and Vinales are tied. Petrucci has been underwhelming for a while, but still hanging in there on consistency (not a single DNF all season). Interestingly Quartararo might catch that group if he keeps finishing at the front along with Marquez. It would be a major feat if Fabio could finish 3rd this season in what is his rookie season. Dovi has been runner-up for 3 consecutive seasons in Moto GP, but Quartararo seems poised to take over from him as the runner-up in future seasons.

 

Suzuki and Rins seem to have lost momentum and Yamaha on the opposite seem to be on a season high, I can see Viñales getting 3rd and Quartararo definitely will get Petrucci who by the way has been disappointing since the 3 podiums in a row he got earlier in the season



#2559 Jambo

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 15:06

BSB may be coming down to the final race of the season but for me the Ducati has been far too dominant. I guess this is the problem with making the rules more restrictive, the more expensive higher spec roadbike will dominate.

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#2560 ceesvdelst

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 17:30

Indeed, BSB has been a rather pale imitation of itself this year, one massively well funded team with a hugely dominant bike and a great rider in Bridewell who has his best year by far in BSB on the same sort of bike yet perhaps a slightly less well developed one.  Seems the rules in BSB favour it, whereas in WSBK the others on it have not been anywhere near as good.

 

As for GP, a lot of hate on Cal, he has done very well on the Honda and despite what some say, it IS a factory bike, he might not get the same updates instantly, but it really is the same engines etc as Repsol and I think people are too quick to crit, he has suffered all year with this leg injury.

 

Simply put the bloke that wins title after title would win on any of the top few bikes, he has 3 or 4 tenths on the field at will. Honda have built a bike this year with immense power, but less than perfect handling, that does not matter to 93, he can win on anything really.

 

If you like watching dominance, you will enjoy it, or if for some reason you have a need to support riders like football teams or the like, but if, like me, you like to see more varied winners, unpredictable races, maybe 2 or 3 guys capable of winning and other fighting, you will not enjoy it, and I am glad to be missing these last few races due to not being able to watch live.

 

Oddly, WTF is going on with Marini, all year being very avergae and like 2 years ago finds insane form year end!



#2561 ch103

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 19:31

Suzuki and Rins seem to have lost momentum and Yamaha on the opposite seem to be on a season high, I can see Viñales getting 3rd and Quartararo definitely will get Petrucci who by the way has been disappointing since the 3 podiums in a row he got earlier in the season

 

My guess is that Suzuki stopped developing the 2019 bike after the British GP win to focus on the 2020 bike.  Since they have fewer resources than Honda, Yamaha and Ducati, they really need to nail down the design right from the start because if it comes down to in season development then they are at a significant disadvantage.  



#2562 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 20:50

Only having 2 bikes on the grid doesn't help.

 

It's money factor. Like everything else in racing.

 

Maybe a sat-team in '21?



#2563 ehagar

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 00:40

I was disappointed when the Marc VDS GP team suspended operations with no replacement. It seemed like the perfect time for Suzuki to partner with a Satellite squad (which apparently there were inquiries to) but Suzuki was firm on not expanding.



#2564 ehagar

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 00:43

BSB may be coming down to the final race of the season but for me the Ducati has been far too dominant. I guess this is the problem with making the rules more restrictive, the more expensive higher spec roadbike will dominate.

 

 

It's been a bit of an odd year. The 'factory' Kawasaki team JG Speedfit (Bournemouth Kawasaki) had a torrid time as defending champions and are now leaving the series (for Superstock?). It really seemed as though it was a Ducati intersquad competition with ocassional glimpses of competitiveness from BMWs or Yamahas.

 

Any word on whether Bradley Ray will still be at Buildbase next year?



#2565 sopa

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 09:08

My guess is that Suzuki stopped developing the 2019 bike after the British GP win to focus on the 2020 bike.  Since they have fewer resources than Honda, Yamaha and Ducati, they really need to nail down the design right from the start because if it comes down to in season development then they are at a significant disadvantage.  

 

Interesting though that in late 2018 Suzuki got one podium after another.



#2566 Jambo

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 09:22

It's been a bit of an odd year. The 'factory' Kawasaki team JG Speedfit (Bournemouth Kawasaki) had a torrid time as defending champions and are now leaving the series (for Superstock?). It really seemed as though it was a Ducati intersquad competition with ocassional glimpses of competitiveness from BMWs or Yamahas.

 

Any word on whether Bradley Ray will still be at Buildbase next year?

Am not sure, apparently Suzuki Japan are big fans of Bradley Ray so if Buildbase stick with the GSXR I imagine he will stay there, needs to get that front end sorted though.

 

I wonder how many Ducati's there will be next year? Maybe see a few more Honda's if the rumours are true. I also reckon BMW won't get away with saying they have a stock engine all of next year as well.



#2567 AlexPrime

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 14:44

I love Maq, but this is getting dull like F1... :well:



#2568 Atreiu

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 15:30

I love Maq, but this is getting dull like F1... :well:

 

I blame Yamaha and Ducati.

 

Yamaha have been slacking for so long they got used to it. Vinales and Quartararo clearly have the speed to make life very tough for Marquez. They can make it a lot more interesting with a developped competitive M1.

 

Ducati are to blame because they were idiots to let Lorenzo go. Betting on Dovi and Petrucci to go against the possible GOAT is incredibly shortsighted. They should have swallowed their pride and kept Lorenzo. Dovi is hard working and fine, but he clearly has limitations which will never allow him to beat Marquez. He'd finish in the top 5 if Yamaha hadn't been so lost for so long.



#2569 Risil

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 15:48

Dovi's career is a testament to his ability to work at his technique and hone a bike until they can win races (reminds me of Alex Criville in that respect) but I feel he's lacking the last increment of ultimate pace that Rossi, Stoner and Pedrosa had, Marquez still has and Lorenzo maybe might still return to.

Thing is with Ducati, they'd be fools to get rid of Dovizioso while no one can get the results he does, but can they afford to hire someone who might be ultimately faster than Dovi, if they have the mental strength and determination to get there? And are they going to push development of the bike away from something Dovizioso likes in favour of Rider B?


Dovizioso also did it away from the spotlight while Ducati were really struggling. Now the Bologna folks are winning races again there's a pressure for the second rider to get quick results that wasn't there before. Not the best environment for a rider to adapt and learn, right?

#2570 Atreiu

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 16:15

Agreed, Dovi deserves all his success, but he has never been a real alien or alien-killer.

 

He should be Ducati's second pilot, the one to give the steady hand in development and keep the 1st rider in check. He should be Ducati's Pedrosa and Lorenzo should have been their Marquez.

 

Ducati "done messed up".



#2571 Luca Pacchiarini

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 16:35

I think pretty much everyone has massive respect for Dovi and that's precisely because he seems to have a fraction of the natural talent people like MM or Rossi have...yet... this guy came very close to beating Marquez over the course of a whole season.
He's...incredible in so many ways

Edited by Luca Pacchiarini, 21 October 2019 - 16:35.


#2572 Silberpfeil

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 16:45

I think pretty much everyone has massive respect for Dovi and that's precisely because he seems to have a fraction of the natural talent people like MM or Rossi have...yet... this guy came very close to beating Marquez over the course of a whole season.
He's...incredible in so many ways

 


That. His career path is pretty fascinating, going from Honda’s third wheel (literally) to Tech 3 to an awful Ducati. Winning a title would’ve been the fairytale ending, but my hop is waning. I’d love to be proven wrong, though.

#2573 messy

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 18:07

I think Dovizioso’s natural level is underestimated by lots of people. When he and Crutchlow were team-mates I remember Cal waxing lyrical about how natural, flowing and effortless he was, painting himself (as he often has) as the scrappy underdog without the same talent level. Dovi is probably one of the best on the grid on the brakes and has quite a nice style. He also compared quite well to Lorenzo.

Problem is, he’s not Marquez. Nobody is. And he’s almost 34. He did very well in 2017 but started overreaching to try and keep up with Marquez which brought back the clumsy accidents and inconsistency sadly. Crux of the whole thing is that nobody is anywhere near Marquez.

#2574 DS27

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 19:43

Redding has done a great job in BSB this year. Notwithstanding the dominance of the Ducati, coming in and beating a former champion while racing almost entirely at tracks you haven't been to before is no mean feat.

 

I only remember seeing him DNF twice all year, and both of those were 100% not his fault and down to a certain Irishman. A whole season without a major mistake puts him in good stead for WSBK next year.



#2575 Atreiu

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 19:46

Indeed.

Redding might be a nutter, but I like it when he does well.



#2576 DS27

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 19:52

Lorenzo hasn't finished even a single race in top 10 this season. Even Ben Spies' season in 2012 alongside world championship winning team-mate was better than that.

 

 

I would say Spies year with five top 5 results was by a magnitude better than Lorenzo's has been.

 

I wish GP had worked out differently for Spies - I still have such fond memories of his WSBK winning year.



#2577 messy

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 20:26

Spies should never really have been bumped straight up alongside peak Lorenzo. That, and injuries, did for him way before his time. 



#2578 ceesvdelst

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 20:35

I think it was in his contract thought was it not, and wasn't it why Cal had to move to Ducati?

 

Spies was top dollar, did very well on the Tech 3 Yam, but again Cal and Dovi were very well matched on that bike with Andrea having the edge, just.  And I think Spies certainly had a better spec bike than those two maybe. 

 

I rate Dovizioso very highly, a lot of people wrote him off at Honda, and maybe rightly so, but since then the way he has helped transform Ducati is amazing, and let's be honest, he had Marquez number a few times 2 years ago, and actually made him look pretty stupid at times, and may I say reckless.

 

So much so I think Marc went away, learned not to kamikaze last bend anymore and is now pretty much unbeatable even if the bike is not close. 



#2579 THEWALL

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 23:43

Lorenzo staying at Honda one more season at this stage of his career is absolutely crazy. He doesn’t have that much time left and it’s not like the Honda will suit his style at the level he needs it to in order to take the fight to MM. Why do another year risking injury, maybe career ending, instead of seeking a seat in a bike that matches his style from the beginning and with which he can challenge at the front sooner? He’s one of the few riders that can potentially beat Marquez, wasting what are probably his last truly competitive years, stuck in a bike they will never completely adapt to him, either because they can’t or they don’t really want to.



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#2580 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 00:08

Only rider to win on 3 different brands?

Jlo is a proud man.

Next year has to be better.

Honda must make an effort or waste what, $20M? 



#2581 SonGoku

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 03:04

I love Maq, but this is getting dull like F1... :well:


It's as boring as it ever been, not even 50.000 viewers and it's on FTA in the Netherlands.

#2582 TecnoRacing

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 04:55

"He [Morbidelli] felt like he was quicker but he didn’t have the pace. I was trying to get past him.

"Typical Franco, he’s Brazilian, he loves jamming it down the inside of you any chance he could, and then chucking his feet in the air."

 

some real classy stuff from Jack Miller :rolleyes:



#2583 Reinmuster

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 06:32

Lorenzo shouldn't leave Ducati, and Ducati shouldn't let him go. They win some GPs together FFS!

 

However I blame Lorenzo's management that tell him going to Honda is the way to go  :stoned:



#2584 Sash1

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 08:15

Lorenzo staying at Honda one more season at this stage of his career is absolutely crazy. He doesn’t have that much time left and it’s not like the Honda will suit his style at the level he needs it to in order to take the fight to MM. Why do another year risking injury, maybe career ending, instead of seeking a seat in a bike that matches his style from the beginning and with which he can challenge at the front sooner? He’s one of the few riders that can potentially beat Marquez, wasting what are probably his last truly competitive years, stuck in a bike they will never completely adapt to him, either because they can’t or they don’t really want to.

 

What Lorenzo needs is a weekend of dry testing on the Honda. He is still recovering mentally from his injury and needs confidence. In a performance environment like a GP weekend it is impossible. He needs 100+ laps where he can take it further and further to the edge (braking point, entry and corner speed) without the push for lap times and points. There is no other bike on which he will perform better, because at this moment it is all in his head.



#2585 ForzaFormula

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 11:26

What Lorenzo needs is a weekend of dry testing on the Honda. He is still recovering mentally from his injury and needs confidence. In a performance environment like a GP weekend it is impossible. He needs 100+ laps where he can take it further and further to the edge (braking point, entry and corner speed) without the push for lap times and points. There is no other bike on which he will perform better, because at this moment it is all in his head.


This is not all true, while some of it is mental and injury related he is known to struggle on bikes that don’t fit his style, he struggles more then anyone on the grid to adapt his riding style to a bike, and has to have the bike tuned to his style, 100 laps of testing wont help him much unless Honda changed the whole characteristic of their bike which would take years and a new bike just for lorenzo.

Edited by ForzaFormula, 22 October 2019 - 11:31.


#2586 Atreiu

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 13:45

"He [Morbidelli] felt like he was quicker but he didn’t have the pace. I was trying to get past him.

"Typical Franco, he’s Brazilian, he loves jamming it down the inside of you any chance he could, and then chucking his feet in the air."

 

some real classy stuff from Jack Miller :rolleyes:

 

What is Miller talking about?

LOL



#2587 Atreiu

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 16:37

Kind of had a weird insight.

 

Basically we're about to enter a Bridgestone 2.0 era with Michelin. As Michelin tyres become better and more durable, teams will develop their bikes to ride more in rails and closer to the limit from beginning to end of the races. This will lead to two things, a renaissance of the HRC x Yamaha title battles and the inevitable decline of Suzuki and Ducati.

 

Try as they might, Suzuki and Ducati can't really compete against HRC and Yamaha in more constantly perfect scenarios.

 

This might lead to a run of more Marquez titles, but with boring 800cc like races.

 

I hope I'm wrong.



#2588 messy

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 17:11

"He [Morbidelli] felt like he was quicker but he didn’t have the pace. I was trying to get past him.

"Typical Franco, he’s Brazilian, he loves jamming it down the inside of you any chance he could, and then chucking his feet in the air."

 

some real classy stuff from Jack Miller :rolleyes:

Just when you think Miller’s matured he reminds you what a dumb kid he is. 



#2589 DS27

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 21:21

That's what happens when your best mates with Cal   :lol:



#2590 HPT

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 03:30

Only rider to win on 3 different brands?
Jlo is a proud man.
Next year has to be better.
Honda must make an effort or waste what, $20M?

I have it on good authority that Honda got him for cheap (in MotoGP terms). I don’t have the exact figure but it’s believed to be in the region of 4-5M

Edited by HPT, 23 October 2019 - 03:30.


#2591 Sash1

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 06:13

SuperSic 8 years. :(



#2592 Kulturen

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 09:39

I feel Lorenzo got so badly injured that at this point it is pointless to talk more about how he's doing. The crucial bit for me will be whether he can be not only 100% recovered but 100% back to fitness by February...anything less than that and there's no chance of him doing anytjing on the Honda.

 

That said I'm sorry but even in the best of cases, he doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning a race let alone anything more...

 

You need to let go guys. The old Lorenzo is never coming back, even if he gets back on the Yamaha. By that time he'll be like what 36? If he is even healthy enough.



#2593 messy

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 11:53

I feel like Lorenzo's time is nearly up to be honest, even if he's only what, 32?

 

Injury history counts for much more than age I think when you think about MotoGP riders passing their use-by date. Pedrosa wasn't exactly 'old' either. 



#2594 ForzaFormula

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 12:01

The old age excuse, he’s not that old yet like rossi, and He seemed fine on the ducati once the bike was adapted for his style, so he clearly still has it , he just needs a perfectly adapted bike for his style and to be comfortable on the bike. Lorenzo on that honda with no confidence is a disaster and his atrocious results are showing it, it’s actually embarrassing him riding round at the back of the field on a factory honda that is winning almost every race.

Edited by ForzaFormula, 23 October 2019 - 12:01.


#2595 RPM40

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 12:26

I blame Yamaha and Ducati.

Yamaha have been slacking for so long they got used to it. Vinales and Quartararo clearly have the speed to make life very tough for Marquez. They can make it a lot more interesting with a developped competitive M1.

Ducati are to blame because they were idiots to let Lorenzo go. Betting on Dovi and Petrucci to go against the possible GOAT is incredibly shortsighted. They should have swallowed their pride and kept Lorenzo. Dovi is hard working and fine, but he clearly has limitations which will never allow him to beat Marquez. He'd finish in the top 5 if Yamaha hadn't been so lost for so long.


I think it’s the opposite, Yamaha now have the bike to win and win a lot but lack the rider.

Pushing Lorenzo out was their mistake. They are still feeling it backing the wrong horse

#2596 Kulturen

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 13:26

Sorry to continue being a party pooper in regards to Lorenzo, but I'm also getting a bit tired hearing about his "success" on the Ducati. I think it's way overastated. Yes it was great to finally see him figure it out but people are talking like he showed about to challenge for the championship and win at every track.

 

First off, Ducati was the best overall bike last year with some significant advantages over top speed, acceleration and tyre use. As we've seen this year this did not continue and it is unlikely to happen again.

 

Secondly, what Lorenzo did was be competitive in Ducati tracks. There's no proof that he would be any threat to Marquez on non Ducati tracks. And that was with a better bike. 

 

Sure he'd probably do a bit better than Dovizioso but there's no evidence he would ever be any threat for the championship this season. People have the right to speculate all they want about what if and I think Ducati and Lorenzo should have stayed together as well but people also need to quit acting like there was evidence the partnership would trouble MM.



#2597 ehagar

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 13:35

I have it on good authority that Honda got him for cheap (in MotoGP terms). I don’t have the exact figure but it’s believed to be in the region of 4-5M


I thought it was about 4M euros.

#2598 Risil

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 13:38

I feel like Lorenzo's time is nearly up to be honest, even if he's only what, 32?
 
Injury history counts for much more than age I think when you think about MotoGP riders passing their use-by date. Pedrosa wasn't exactly 'old' either.

 

10-year rule. Once they hit the big time, riders rarely make it past that mark with their edge intact. Rossi arguably managed it, but after his 2010 leg break he never again looked like the fastest guy out there.



#2599 Kulturen

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 14:30

Lorenzo may still be 32 but

a) he turns 33 next may while still on the Honda regardless of recovery, then the next season he'll be turning 34. Very improbable he challenges straight away so by the season after that he'll be turning 35!

 

b) rossi may be racing still at 40 but remember he's the exception and obviously not at his best AND he wasn't as broken as Lorenzo...

 

In other words, it's unreasonable to expect Lorenzo will manage to compete and the top again. It's a very small chance. It's simply too late.



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#2600 ForzaFormula

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 15:22

It’s not to late if he gets the right bike underneath him, then he could be at the top yet again but that’s very doubtful on the honda, he needs to be on the yam or suz. his age isn’t that bad and it’s an excuse to try cover up his extremely poor pace and results on the honda, where he’s fighting at the back of the grid, he’s that sensitive to bikes he cant ride.