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McLaren Technical Thread (MCL34)


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#451 Fatgadget

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 13:44

That's a very good argument for ignoring driver feedback, but I suspect no race engineer would agree with you.

Are you suggesting the feedback from the drivers who will be driving the car in anger as it were not good enough? As someone else has suggest,what if Alonso finds the car Ok and the contracted drivers not to their liking or vice-versa?


Edited by Fatgadget, 03 February 2019 - 13:52.


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#452 Forghieri

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 14:06

Maybe Zak plans to take potential sponsors to the track on that day and tell them "You see, Alonso is still driving for us... sign here, please".  :smoking:



#453 Clatter

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 14:41

That's a very good argument for ignoring driver feedback, but I suspect no race engineer would agree with you.

Driver feedback when setting the car up to suit their style, or when judging things over the longer term are different things. Putting someone in the car for half a day won't result in improvements. It's a new chapter, let the new guys prove themselves.

#454 kosmos

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 14:55

At the end of the day its the team principal that green flags any proposal. The buck stops with him.

 

 

Well yeah but why would ZB say no if the engineers told him they think half day of Alonso in the car will be beneficial?. Not sure why you guys are aiming at ZB in this matter.

 

 

If Fernando wants the seat, one of them is out,

 

 

They are not going to ruin one of this kids life because Alonso now out of nowhere wants to drive.. He chose to retire, period. I'm sure the thought of McLaren having a great car in 1 to 3 years crossed his mind when he was thinking about retirement and yet he chose to retire.


Edited by kosmos, 03 February 2019 - 14:55.


#455 P123

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 19:01

Alonso will have a feeling for last years car, so if he did do a half day he'd at least be able to confirm whether or not McLaren had ironed out some weaknesses. Sainz himself has enough experience now to lead development, of which the drivers only have a small input to anyway.

#456 BJHF1

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 19:23

I’m not really sure how much can be taken comparing the 2018 to 2019 car to begin with. The regulation changes will (or at least in theory) have a notable negative impact on performance.

Edited by BJHF1, 03 February 2019 - 19:23.


#457 DeKnyff

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 20:29

And what good will his opinion actually do? He says it's good (he did that last year), they all go away and pat themselves on the back. He says its bad, they say "bugger it" and write off another year. The cars are loaded to the ying yang with sensors and god knows how much data is actually collected. They will know within a few laps whether they have another dud or not. A half day, even a whole day, of Alonso in the cockpit is not going to change the situation. Just accept he has left the team and, for better or worse, put the faith in the new guys.

Why is it soooo bad that Alonso test the car? Prost did it for McLaren, Stewart did for Tyrrell in the seventies. i could be wrong, but I think Schumacher also tried the Ferrari of 2007. I'm sure we could find more examples. Give Alonso a break, it's not that he is trying to steal the car or something like that.



#458 Fatgadget

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 20:47

Why is it soooo bad that Alonso test the car? Prost did it for McLaren, Stewart did for Tyrrell in the seventies. i could be wrong, but I think Schumacher also tried the Ferrari of 2007. I'm sure we could find more examples. Give Alonso a break, it's not that he is trying to steal the car or something like that.

Back in the dim and distant past when testing was unlimited.And its not just because it's Alonso. It would be equally daft  Rosberg evaluating a Merc after leaving the team. IMHO.


Edited by Fatgadget, 03 February 2019 - 20:53.


#459 Clatter

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 21:42

Why is it soooo bad that Alonso test the car? Prost did it for McLaren, Stewart did for Tyrrell in the seventies. i could be wrong, but I think Schumacher also tried the Ferrari of 2007. I'm sure we could find more examples. Give Alonso a break, it's not that he is trying to steal the car or something like that.

 


Alonso has had his breaks, he doesnt need another half day in the car. But as I have already said, with limited testing I think all available seat time should be allocated to the race drivers, especially as they are new to the team.

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#460 baddog

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 22:45

If Fernando wants the seat, one of them is out

 

Fernando is gone for at least this year. It is MUCH too late for him to be changing his mind and the team wouldn't let it happen, no way.



#461 RA2

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 05:10

One of the two drivers from last year testing is a good idea. LN had some idea of what the car was like but not sure if engineers should go by only that assessment.  


Edited by RA2, 04 February 2019 - 05:11.


#462 Requiem84

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 06:45

Why is it soooo bad that Alonso test the car? Prost did it for McLaren, Stewart did for Tyrrell in the seventies. i could be wrong, but I think Schumacher also tried the Ferrari of 2007. I'm sure we could find more examples. Give Alonso a break, it's not that he is trying to steal the car or something like that.


In the examples you mention, testing wasn’t so restricted as now.

Racing drivers had enough time to test. Whereas now you have 1 rookie and 1 new driver who have 3 days per person to prepare. That is so limited, that any time in the car is a premium.

#463 as65p

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 07:13

The angst over this matter is hilarious.



#464 Oblivion

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 07:30

The angst over this matter is hilarious.

 

Totally agree. The matter itself is so unimportant, so it's very strange to see such a long discussion.



#465 kumo7

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 08:53

In the examples you mention, testing wasn’t so restricted as now.

Racing drivers had enough time to test. Whereas now you have 1 rookie and 1 new driver who have 3 days per person to prepare. That is so limited, that any time in the car is a premium.

 

This is true. The team knows that. 

 

I do think that the car will not be fast enough to become the championship contender this year.

Even if it will not be the one, it is always good to have feedback from the guys like Alonso, someone who can take title if he was given the right material.

 

Obviously, if the car is spectacular and Alonso says that he can take title with it, then I say why not.

That is the very reason why McLaren exists. Let them take the title, I say.


Edited by kumo7, 04 February 2019 - 08:54.


#466 Burai

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 09:43

Sainz has spent three years with Toro Rosso, spent last year in the Renault, a car that was capable of 4th place in the constructors championship. He also did 150 laps in MCL33 at the post-season test.

 

This idea that he's not capable of telling whether MCL34 is a good car or not is absolutely laughable.



#467 kumo7

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 10:02

Obviously, if the car is spectacular and Alonso says that he can take title with it, then I say why not.

That is the very reason why McLaren exists. Let them take the title, I say.



#468 baddog

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 10:21

I hope Fernando is a touch more realistic than his fans

#469 kumo7

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 10:23

I do think that the car will not be fast enough to become the championship contender this year.

Even if it will not be the one, it is always good to have feedback from the guys like Alonso, someone who can take title if he was given the right material.

 

 

His fans are not as out-of-reality as you have just pictured.



#470 f1rules

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 12:04

https://www.thebestf...er-dia-de-test/

 

sainz to debut

 

and latest pic of the mcl34

 

Dyje8-KXgAAKquw.jpg



#471 Oblivion

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 12:17

Every new pic it looks faster and faster... :)



#472 Owen

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 12:24

And the red disc- thing is ... ? 

 

 

 

*awaits comedy answers.


Edited by Owen, 04 February 2019 - 12:24.


#473 Beri

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 12:28

A coke bottle cap



#474 Jazza

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 12:49

After last years performance, hopefully Ferrari IP...

#475 Christophe77

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 13:07

And the red disc- thing is ... ? 

 

 

 

*awaits comedy answers.

 

A coke bottle cap

 

New title sponsor revealed! 



#476 Hamm

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 13:18

Sainz
https://www.marca.co...3b2f8b462d.html

#477 CPR

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 13:20

And the red disc- thing is ... ? 

 

 

 

*awaits comedy answers.

 

"Hopes rise at McLaren as their cap on downforce is finally located"



#478 Mc_Silver

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 13:38

Sainz
https://www.marca.co...3b2f8b462d.html


It seems the car will be completely different than ever.

#479 Owen

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 15:12

It seems the car will be completely different than ever.

Seems that way. Perhaps not a surprise given that the architects of the last car are not involved this time.



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#480 Beri

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 15:24

It seems the car will be completely different than ever.


Marcia quoting a Spanish driver and building an article around it.. In the same way Marca could even make turds sound like delicious appetizers with a bottle of wine.
In other words, Marca articles about Alonso or Sainz should always be taken with a pinch of salt. Or the complete Bonneville salt flats.

#481 CPR

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 15:43

It seems the car will be completely different than ever.

 

Last year's car was a dud, at least in terms of aero, so no point evolving it. So I'd expect a "revolution" (ie largely clean-sheet design) for the aero. No idea about mechanical side, though they were testing significant changes late last year and if those are largely representative overall then I'd guess the mechanical side will be more of an evolution. I suspect they'll keep the high rake concept though the details might well change. They had a rather distinctive nose last year and if the concept works well with the new regulations/design (I don't see why not) then we'll probably see an evolved version of that - it might be the only obvious carry over.



#482 MirNyet

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 20:05

Last year's car was a dud, at least in terms of aero, so no point evolving it. So I'd expect a "revolution" (ie largely clean-sheet design) for the aero. No idea about mechanical side, though they were testing significant changes late last year and if those are largely representative overall then I'd guess the mechanical side will be more of an evolution. I suspect they'll keep the high rake concept though the details might well change. They had a rather distinctive nose last year and if the concept works well with the new regulations/design (I don't see why not) then we'll probably see an evolved version of that - it might be the only obvious carry over.

 

That would suggest that all of the car was bad, rather than the car having an issue with it's layout - which is what is being reported.  With that in mind, I expect the car to look similar, but with Ferrari style sidepods.



#483 CPR

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 22:30

That would suggest that all of the car was bad, rather than the car having an issue with it's layout - which is what is being reported.  With that in mind, I expect the car to look similar, but with Ferrari style sidepods.

 

I did add the caveat about the aero. Anyway, from the various hints dropped I get the feeling that there were multiple problems - that there was one big one (the main aero issue) and a bunch of small ones. Given the aero reg changes on top of this I'd expect they went for a clean sheet design, for the most part. Some bits might be re-imported but only if they're sure they work. Perhaps the only bit that will look similar is the nose itself (not the FW) and maybe the diffuser.

 

They probably won't be the only ones. Renault have apparently completely re-done the entire car, for example.



#484 MrRat

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 04:03

I did add the caveat about the aero. Anyway, from the various hints dropped I get the feeling that there were multiple problems - that there was one big one (the main aero issue) and a bunch of small ones. Given the aero reg changes on top of this I'd expect they went for a clean sheet design, for the most part. Some bits might be re-imported but only if they're sure they work. Perhaps the only bit that will look similar is the nose itself (not the FW) and maybe the diffuser.

 

They probably won't be the only ones. Renault have apparently completely re-done the entire car, for example.

Actually the big one was the wrong placement of the front axle which then had knock on effects on the car's aero. This has been confirmed by multiple people now.



#485 Quickshifter

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 05:16

The cooling setup, wheelbase, sidepod intakes, roll hoop intake, sidepods design, front wing, rear wing, bargeboards, everything will change. Nose may be the only part carried over. They had to cobble up a gearbox at short notice last season. This season they will have a completely new gearbox with revised rear suspension.

#486 Hamm

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 10:18

new sponsor
https://twitter.com/...9548047360?s=19

#487 Oblivion

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 10:23

The mystery of red cap is solved :)



#488 Mc_Silver

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 11:16

new sponsor
https://twitter.com/...9548047360?s=19


It will be represented on the rear wing of MCL-34 which means good amount of £££.

I think this was one the sponsorships Zak was talking about. Or we may see more announcements before the start of the season, who knows? :)

#489 loki0420

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 12:23

The cooling setup, wheelbase, sidepod intakes, roll hoop intake, sidepods design, front wing, rear wing, bargeboards, everything will change. Nose may be the only part carried over. They had to cobble up a gearbox at short notice last season. This season they will have a completely new gearbox with revised rear suspension.

Oh, how i hope it'll be nose that changes drastically. Even on McLaren i can't find it pretty. The last pretty nose was the first iteration of mp4-30.



#490 DeKnyff

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 12:26

In the examples you mention, testing wasn’t so restricted as now.

Racing drivers had enough time to test. Whereas now you have 1 rookie and 1 new driver who have 3 days per person to prepare. That is so limited, that any time in the car is a premium.

Well, may be this is exactly the reason why Alonso's input could be a bonus.



#491 Quickshifter

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 12:27

Zak putting money where his mouth is, by not just bringing in regular sponsorships but also keeping the brand visible by clever deals like the one we saw with Gandys, HTC etc.

#492 CPR

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 12:51

Actually the big one was the wrong placement of the front axle which then had knock on effects on the car's aero. This has been confirmed by multiple people now.

 

In my previous comments I didn't specifically state the main reason for the aero problem intentionally, but yes this is the sort of thing I was referring to. I didn't state it directly because I consider it unconfirmed, even if it sounds rather plausible.

 

Overall, I think McLaren were quite lucky that the FIA decided to rush through some aero changes for 2019. It's not a "reset" but it's a big enough change that McLaren can regain some of the ground they lost by going down the wrong development route in 2018. They'll likely still be playing catch-up in some areas (at least compared to the "big three") but it won't be nearly as bad as it would have been with stable regulations. Or at least, that's my best guess.



#493 Beri

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 13:59

Zak putting money where his mouth is, by not just bringing in regular sponsorships but also keeping the brand visible by clever deals like the one we saw with Gandys, HTC etc.


OnePlus ;)

#494 Quickshifter

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 14:42

In my previous comments I didn't specifically state the main reason for the aero problem intentionally, but yes this is the sort of thing I was referring to. I didn't state it directly because I consider it unconfirmed, even if it sounds rather plausible.

Overall, I think McLaren were quite lucky that the FIA decided to rush through some aero changes for 2019. It's not a "reset" but it's a big enough change that McLaren can regain some of the ground they lost by going down the wrong development route in 2018. They'll likely still be playing catch-up in some areas (at least compared to the "big three") but it won't be nearly as bad as it would have been with stable regulations. Or at least, that's my best guess.


Yeah, the issue is not just front axle placement but other things as well. The rule changes have provided Mclaren with a bit more of an opportunity to regain performance. There is also talk of Mclaren coming up with a clever front wing end plate design which has been given an OK by the FIA apparently.

Even on the engine side Mclaren weren't using the latest version of the MGU-K which was lighter and more compact. In short Mclaren has room for improvement everywhere.

#495 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 14:43

Personal translation of the quotes: "The 2019 McLaren will be very different from anything seen until now."

"We hope to have a good car this year, because the development and plans this winter have been very consistent, but we obviously don't know what the other teams have done, and the competition in F1 has become very tough. We also count on the experience of our drivers, even though the 2019 car will be very different from anything seen until now. Nevertheless, they've got good feelings in the simulator. I hope that they'll be able to fight each other with this car, like with all other drivers, so that they can fight for points and consistently be in the top 10."

"All members of McLaren have worked like never before to ascertain that this year's car is a lot better than those of the last few years. We don't want to make predictions, but our expectations are to make a large step forwards. Last season wasn't what we hoped to be, regarding results, but we want to keep on going forward. Obviously I won't say we'll fight for the title, but I'm conscious of where we want to be, even though we won't [be able to?] verify it until we'll put the car out on track and the true competition begins."

 

Doomed :cat:
 



#496 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 14:46

Maybe, but I'm sure over the years you have disagreed about some team decisions.

 

Suspecting the driver blackmailing the boss is a bit beyond disagreeing with team decisions



#497 MirNyet

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 14:54

I did add the caveat about the aero. Anyway, from the various hints dropped I get the feeling that there were multiple problems - that there was one big one (the main aero issue) and a bunch of small ones. Given the aero reg changes on top of this I'd expect they went for a clean sheet design, for the most part. Some bits might be re-imported but only if they're sure they work. Perhaps the only bit that will look similar is the nose itself (not the FW) and maybe the diffuser.

 

They probably won't be the only ones. Renault have apparently completely re-done the entire car, for example.

 

Personally, I think we're in for a surprise at how similar the new car is to the last 4, obviously we know the airbox intake is different, but we knew that was coming anyway, but aside from that, I'm expecting the sidepods to be further back, and similar to what Ferrari/Red Bull have been running with a lot of work around this area in general.  The rear of the car is likely to be pretty much the same, and I don't expect them to move away from the wacky nose they ran last year either, or the high chassis.

Not long until we find out :D



#498 CPR

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 15:52

Yeah, the issue is not just front axle placement but other things as well. The rule changes have provided Mclaren with a bit more of an opportunity to regain performance. There is also talk of Mclaren coming up with a clever front wing end plate design which has been given an OK by the FIA apparently.

  

Hmm. I thought the new end plates regulations were very strict. There are some bits in the FW with more wiggle room though.

 

 

Personally, I think we're in for a surprise at how similar the new car is to the last 4, obviously we know the airbox intake is different, but we knew that was coming anyway, but aside from that, I'm expecting the sidepods to be further back, and similar to what Ferrari/Red Bull have been running with a lot of work around this area in general.  The rear of the car is likely to be pretty much the same, and I don't expect them to move away from the wacky nose they ran last year either, or the high chassis.

Not long until we find out :D

 

Apart from the livery I'd expect the MCL34 to have more in common with other cars overall than the MCL33. I'd expect a few bits to be carried over but those would be the exception rather than the norm.



#499 kosmos

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 16:09

More sponsors.

 

https://www.racefans...ponsor-f1-2019/



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#500 apreading

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 16:16

New McLaren breaks cover:
 

Spoiler

Edited by apreading, 05 February 2019 - 16:18.