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McLaren Technical Thread (MCL34)


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#101 DILLIGAF

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 06:35

The only change I'd make would be having the orange a little darker.



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#102 Oblivion

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 06:55

They had to find an interim solution because of Key's forced delay to join the team.

 

It's not a mere interim solution. Fry is (and was) the valuable member of the Team. He left the Team for some "political" reasons as far as I know, so it's good to see him back. Together with Key and Prodromu they could make a terrific job.


Edited by Oblivion, 11 January 2019 - 09:23.


#103 propercare

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 09:19

Make a car fast and then reliable, because it's harder to make a reliable car fast than a fast car reliable. Seems not to be the modus operandi anymore. Lessons from the Honda years?

 

I don't think you can make now car fast if it's not reliable, because of lack of testing. You need real world testing hours to extract performance. 



#104 Dennista

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 09:49

Why can't we just go back to doing things like we used to. Build the fastest car on the grid which breaks down in the opening fly away races. Return to Europe with an update to deal with reliability issues. Simple.



#105 Stephane

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 09:57

They aim was always to make a fast reliable car. Then the cas hit the track and they knew what to work on. Speed, reliability (or both)



#106 CPR

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 12:09

I think it’s limited testing and the age of simulators.

In the past you made the car fast and tested it. After it broke down and it was repaired with slightly stronger parts, you took it back out and tested it some more. Of course you also had multiple cars and drivers testing as well, so you could just keep smashing out the laps until you made it hold together for a race distance.

These days with 1 driver and only a few days of testing, reliability is crucial to get as much track time in so as to see if all those computer numbers are accurate. Once they prove to be true, you can then keep designing a faster car on the simulators. On the other hand if the car is unreliable and you never get a true test of the car, then not only is it impossible to test new more reliable parts, you can also never test to see if your sim numbers are true to begin with meaning all future development is put on hold.

Of course I could be wrong, but I think that is why teams have changed their approach in recent years. Getting adequate track time to get those simulation numbers calibrated is just too important.

 

Yep. I'd say this is largely how things should be done now.

 

To put it a different way: there is testing you can usefully do in advance and there is testing you can only meaningfully do on the track. Since track testing is highly limited you want you maximise those limited track days and the way to do that is to do as much testing in advance, within reason. That probably means you need to have a complete car earlier (for those full rig tests), but it's worth it.



#107 MattK9

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 13:50

Excited about Seidl guys?!

 

Yes and no.

 

Seidl is obviously highly rated and comes from a very successful spell at Porsche.

 

However, i dont think that he is right for McLaren. From the outside looking in, McLaren still think of themselves as one of F1s top teams. They're not. 10 years ago McLaren were the defacto Merc works team and they had the budget of a works teams and they could operate like a works teams, which means they could develop multiple development paths at once, analysis the best and move forwards with that design philosophy and repeat. That is an oversimplification of the process but it works fine for my arguement. This way of working might produce the best results however is very expensive and inefficient.

 

McLaren dont have the budget to work like this anymore. They need to be more efficient in the development of the car. I believe one of the reason for their woes in recent years is they still have the mentality of a works team and the inefficient working practices that come with that, while not having the budget to allow for it. This is why teams like Force India, Sauber and Haas can outdesign McLaren on a smaller budget.

 

McLaren need to accept that they are a small F1 team and need to start thinking like that. Figures like Fernley and Key will be needed in their F1 development team who have come from smaller teams and can produce a more efficient design process. Seidl comes from a Porsche works background so his potential may not be well suited to McLaren's current needs.



#108 ExEd

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 16:59

Yes and no.

 

Seidl is obviously highly rated and comes from a very successful spell at Porsche.

 

However, i dont think that he is right for McLaren. From the outside looking in, McLaren still think of themselves as one of F1s top teams. They're not. 10 years ago McLaren were the defacto Merc works team and they had the budget of a works teams and they could operate like a works teams, which means they could develop multiple development paths at once, analysis the best and move forwards with that design philosophy and repeat. That is an oversimplification of the process but it works fine for my arguement. This way of working might produce the best results however is very expensive and inefficient.

 

McLaren dont have the budget to work like this anymore. They need to be more efficient in the development of the car. I believe one of the reason for their woes in recent years is they still have the mentality of a works team and the inefficient working practices that come with that, while not having the budget to allow for it. This is why teams like Force India, Sauber and Haas can outdesign McLaren on a smaller budget.

 

McLaren need to accept that they are a small F1 team and need to start thinking like that. Figures like Fernley and Key will be needed in their F1 development team who have come from smaller teams and can produce a more efficient design process. Seidl comes from a Porsche works background so his potential may not be well suited to McLaren's current needs.

 

 

I have to disagree there.

First of all If we consider the 4th budget in f1 small ...then the sport is in deep trouble ,not just McLaren. 

Also, they keep thinking big, and I agree that it may hurt them a bit, simply because the DNA of a team doesn't change just like that. 

Ferrari didn't win a title for 21 years, some of them not even up to the fight, lots of times in really bad shape and not always having the biggest of cash flowing in, specially in the 80s.

Did they change to "small" status? 

 

McLaren have been in this really bad position (first time in their history) the past 4 years, the project with Honda didn't work and it takes time to recover.

In this era with minimal testing ,restrictions to pretty much everything and major rules changes not happening very often ,that 4 really bad seasons they had will take more that we think of to recover from.

 

Now ,Im not saying they will recover for sure.

The path that Williams took looks more likely than a proper recovery if to be honest, but all I'm saying it will require more than that for them to be "small".  



#109 johnwilliamdavies

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 18:27

I have to disagree there.

First of all If we consider the 4th budget in f1 small ...then the sport is in deep trouble ,not just McLaren. 

 

 

They don't have the 4th largest budget though. The last accounts stated that spending on the F1 team was greatly reduced.  



#110 ExEd

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 20:03

They don't have the 4th largest budget though. The last accounts stated that spending on the F1 team was greatly reduced.  

 

That might be true indeed,so i stand corrected  :up:

With the current version of the teams spending amounts Mclaren has gone further down to sixth slot by last December. 

I think it has to do with the scrap of the season targets early on.



#111 pup

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 20:20

4th, 2nd, 10th - what matters is the actual difference, not the rank.

 

McLaren's biggest budget issue is that the customer teams can do more per dollar than they can.  



#112 Joseki

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 21:26

They don't have the 4th largest budget though. The last accounts stated that spending on the F1 team was greatly reduced.  

 

The last financial report mentioned nothing of that, only reduces costs associated with drivers.

 

 

 

By the way according to Zak McLaren's budget is 3/5 of the top teams, so around the 200m-250m range.


Edited by Joseki, 11 January 2019 - 21:27.


#113 DeKnyff

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 22:17

Excited about Seidl guys?!

Yes, because recruitments prove that McLaren is on the move and doing what it takes to regain its top team status.



#114 chrisj

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 00:58

Why would someone who was in charge of racing at Porsche want to go to McLaren? That seems like a massive step backwards.



#115 BJHF1

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 01:14

Money? He might also relish the challenge that is F1...

#116 Jazza

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 02:31

Why would someone who was in charge of racing at Porsche want to go to McLaren? That seems like a massive step backwards.


Would anyone turn down McLaren 5 years ago? Being one of the largest, oldest, most successful and prestigious teams in F1 history - and at the top of its game at the time - would have attracted anyone.

Yes McLaren have had a rough few years, but they still have a huge following, a growing road car market continuing to build in brand power, and are branching out into other areas (Indy, LM) whilst rebuilding their F1 team. If in 5 years McLaren are back at the front and he was the guy to get them there, that would be one hell of a achievement to have in his career history.

#117 Alburaq

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 03:52

What if Porsche is planning to join Mclaren as their engine partner (and is developing a PU secretly)  :stoned:



#118 Fatgadget

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 07:11

Make a car fast and then reliable, because it's harder to make a reliable car fast than a fast car reliable. Seems not to be the modus operandi anymore. Lessons from the Honda years?

The days of that kind of thinking are long gone IMO. These days of 3 engines per season you need to be both fast AND reliable from the get go. Because by the time you sort out your reliability issues the other guys will be way out of reach.



#119 DILLIGAF

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 09:55

Why would someone who was in charge of racing at Porsche want to go to McLaren? That seems like a massive step backwards.


Maybe the chance to work for one of the most successful teams in F1 history and the challenge of helping the team return to the top appealed to him.

Brown said it's going to take time, I think he mentioned 5 years, before they can realistically fight for titles, So they are not expecting miracles in the short term. Seidl will know that. I think he's a good choice.

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#120 New Britain

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 11:12

4th, 2nd, 10th - what matters is the actual difference, not the rank.

 

McLaren's biggest budget issue is that the customer teams can do more per dollar than they can.  

If we get a meaningful cost cap starting in 2021, McLaren's having gone on a diet before Merc, Fezza and Red Bull did may then be an advantage! :)



#121 Owen

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 11:31

Another 2 partners have been signed will be announced this month. Source; Zak at ASI19

#122 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 12:09

Why would someone who was in charge of racing at Porsche want to go to McLaren? That seems like a massive step backwards.

 

Because Porsche it not racing anymore in any top category and McLaren is more interesting than some Porsche 911 cup?


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 12 January 2019 - 12:10.


#123 sopa

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 12:13

With the current version of the teams spending amounts Mclaren has gone further down to sixth slot by last December. 

 

 

Sixth?

 

Ahead are Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull, Renault, and... who?



#124 mclarensmps

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 16:02

Why would someone who was in charge of racing at Porsche want to go to McLaren? That seems like a massive step backwards.

 

I'd love to know how you go about choosing an employer



#125 Nonesuch

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 16:14

Nice move by the way @ 13:25.

 

Pretty nice, but not quite F1 level.

 

 

:cool:

 



#126 Francesc

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 16:26

Another 2 partners have been signed will be announced this month. Source; Zak at ASI19


Estrella Galicia and La liga?

#127 Pumpkinz

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 19:03

Why would someone who was in charge of racing at Porsche want to go to McLaren? That seems like a massive step backwards.

 

According to multiple Articles he wanted to Work in F1 again and Porsche had discussions about entering. After the LMP1 Programme was axed he was also told F1 won't happen in the foreseeable Future. So the logical Step is to look for a Job in F1. Becoming managing Director of McLaren Racing and (if everything goes according to Plan) leading the Team back to Competitiveness isn't too shabby of a future Outlook.



#128 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 19:36

First of all If we consider the 4th budget in f1 small ...then the sport is in deep trouble ,not just McLaren. 

Also, they keep thinking big, and I agree that it may hurt them a bit, simply because the DNA of a team doesn't change just like that. 

 

This is the wrong way to think.  McLaren is a Renault customer team, 5th place in the WCC is their best case result and will remain their best case result for quite some time, unless there is a major shakeup of the manufacturers involved and not involved (e.g., if Mercedes quit) in F1.

 

McLaren should be purchasing as much as possible from Renault, to reduce their costs and increase efficiency.

 

 

McLaren's biggest budget issue is that the customer teams can do more per dollar than they can.  

 

Exactly, for McLaren as a customer team to insist on having different gearbox, different rear suspension and different oils and fuels than their works partner Renault, is really unwise IMO.  It's a waste of money, designing and building parts when you could more cost-effectively purchase perfectly competitive parts from Renault.


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 12 January 2019 - 19:41.


#129 TheMessiah

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 20:07

This is the wrong way to think.  McLaren is a Renault customer team, 5th place in the WCC is their best case result and will remain their best case result for quite some time, unless there is a major shakeup of the manufacturers involved and not involved (e.g., if Mercedes quit) in F1.

 

McLaren should be purchasing as much as possible from Renault, to reduce their costs and increase efficiency.

 

 

 

Exactly, for McLaren as a customer team to insist on having different gearbox, different rear suspension and different oils and fuels than their works partner Renault, is really unwise IMO.  It's a waste of money, designing and building parts when you could more cost-effectively purchase perfectly competitive parts from Renault.

 

 

So by that token should Redbull not have been doing the same as well?.

 

Such backwards thinking.



#130 Quickshifter

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 20:54

Mclaren aren't broke for cash, they are hiring some top names like Key and Seidl, they aren't coming for free. They have invested in upgrading their simulation equipment, they are entering Indy 500,contemplating entering other series like WEC etc. Mclaren are a sports car manufacturer and racing is in their DNA..

Closer collaboration with Renault to improve competitiveness of both teams is understandable but it's laughable to suggest Mclaren should be running like a B team of Renault. Mclaren have lot of expertise in data gathering and analysis, ECU, Battery so they can work closely with Renault in many areas but that is a call they have not yet taken. Both Renault and Mclaren are waiting for 2021 regulation framework before they commit to any long term collaboration.

#131 Danyy

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 21:59

^ Formula E sounds like a good match

#132 chrisj

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 23:10

I'd love to know how you go about choosing an employer

Money, of course. It's the only right answer. "Wanting to work in Formula 1 again" seems like the dumbest reason possible. I'm not even a Porsche nut, but their heritage is 100x McLaren, and they always do interesting projects. Formula 1 is just Formula 1, and McLaren is many years away from being at the front, if that even happens again.



#133 baddog

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 23:14

Money, of course. It's the only right answer. "Wanting to work in Formula 1 again" seems like the dumbest reason possible. 

 

Dumb to you because you have no ambition in that area. Ambitions are personal, and a hell of a lot of people have ambitions in one area specifically. The idea that money is the only worthwhile ambition is downright sad.



#134 ExEd

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 23:27

Exactly, for McLaren as a customer team to insist on having different gearbox, different rear suspension and different oils and fuels than their works partner Renault, is really unwise IMO.  It's a waste of money, designing and building parts when you could more cost-effectively purchase perfectly competitive parts from Renault.

 

The whole customer/works thing is so overrated, proven in multiple occasion in the past. 

The problems that Mclaren have atm is not the factory engine. 

This could  be in the case they go back into title fights and their main competitor is Renault but 

for now its the least of their problems



#135 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 23:55

Money, of course. It's the only right answer. "Wanting to work in Formula 1 again" seems like the dumbest reason possible. I'm not even a Porsche nut, but their heritage is 100x McLaren, and they always do interesting projects. Formula 1 is just Formula 1, and McLaren is many years away from being at the front, if that even happens again.

 

Money is only the right answer when one is lacking money. I'm pretty sure he will be paid well whatever he chooses to do in his industry, so what is wrong with doing what he wants to do??? Porsche's heritage does not help when they are not racing now in classes that interest him. Edit: And there is also nothing wrong with a challenge that takes years


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 13 January 2019 - 00:10.


#136 New Britain

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 19:35

The whole customer/works thing is so overrated, proven in multiple occasion in the past. 

The problems that Mclaren have atm is not the factory engine. 

This could  be in the case they go back into title fights and their main competitor is Renault but 

for now its the least of their problems

If the whole customer/works thing is so overrated, why is it that, in the last 20+ years, a customer team has won the WCC only once, and in many seasons has not won a single race?



#137 Touchdown

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 21:36

Money, of course. It's the only right answer. "Wanting to work in Formula 1 again" seems like the dumbest reason possible. I'm not even a Porsche nut, but their heritage is 100x McLaren, and they always do interesting projects. Formula 1 is just Formula 1, and McLaren is many years away from being at the front, if that even happens again.

Are you even familiar with McLaren's heritage?  :confused:



#138 Joseki

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 22:09

Why would someone who was in charge of racing at Porsche want to go to McLaren? That seems like a massive step backwards.

 

He joined Porsche because of the LMP1 project.

 

The LMP1 working group was terminated a few months ago.

 

1+1



#139 Reinmuster

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 02:03

 

By the way according to Zak McLaren's budget is 3/5 of the top teams, so around the 200m-250m range.

 

In Grand Prix Driver documentary, Zak said and quote "Ron Dennis says, to compete in F1 they're going to need 100 Millions, plus another 100 Millions on top of it to win."

 

It's clearly not enough for McLaren.



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#140 Owen

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 11:46

Team anticipates 'good F1 car'.

https://www.motorspo...19-car/4323699/



#141 CPR

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 11:54

In Grand Prix Driver documentary, Zak said and quote "Ron Dennis says, to compete in F1 they're going to need 100 Millions, plus another 100 Millions on top of it to win."

 

It's clearly not enough for McLaren.

 

When there's an enforced budget cap, such a concept clearly isn't going to matter anymore.

 

 

PS For anyone who thinks that McLaren have had big budget cuts recently, where's the big layoffs? There's only so much you can sensibly do to reduce costs without reducing the size of your workforce.



#142 Mc_Silver

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 11:54

Team anticipates 'good F1 car'.
https://www.motorspo...19-car/4323699/


Here's hoping for a better year. I think we can fight for the 4th place with a good car. The competition is going to be fierce.

#143 Dennista

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 12:59

Here's hoping for a better year. I think we can fight for the 4th place with a good car. The competition is going to be fierce.

 

The next win is going to be bigger than the DC win in OZ 2003. Back then I thought a season without a win was the worst thing ever.



#144 rodlamas

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 13:27

Man, how is this BB going to explode if Mclaren is a top-6 car talking about Alonso's choices...



#145 DeKnyff

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 13:50

I'm not even a Porsche nut, but their heritage is 100x McLaren.

No.



#146 RA2

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 14:17

Why is it that executives joining McLaren from VW do not have a firm joining date?

#147 Traction

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 14:55

Team anticipates 'good F1 car'.

https://www.motorspo...19-car/4323699/

good to see Mclaren being prudent in managing expectations again...

 

Let's hope for once they are right.



#148 bogi

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 15:07

Same rehashed quotes from many interviews now combined in one with the new headline.

 

"We're anticipating a good car," said Brown. "The off-season development has gone according to plan but you ultimately don't know what the competition's been up to and the competition's tough, and getting tougher.

 

 
 
That headline sounds different when you put it out of context. 


#149 BRG

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 16:05

What if Porsche is planning to join Mclaren as their engine partner (and is developing a PU secretly)  :stoned:

It worked rather well last time.

 

Pity it won;t happen, as I would have loved to see the faces of the Red Bull crowd when Mclaren pulled a genuine works deal.



#150 Quickshifter

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 17:33

Zak at Autosport show

 

- Seidl responsible for running F1 team.

 

-Zak overall in charge of  Mclaren racing across all platforms, putting right people in charge with right resources.

 

-F1 Number 1 priority.