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2019 Rolex 24hrs of Daytona !


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#1351 BRG

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 18:36

You have no idea what this means?

Correct.  What is this Triple Crown of Endurance?  Never heard of such a thing.  And why were you talking about about Phil Hill and Jackie Oliver?  You have totally lost me.

 

We were discussing the so-called Triple Crown of winning the F1 WDC (or alternatively, the F1 Monaco GP), the 24 Hours of Le Mans and the Indy 500.  Which just one person has done - in either iteration - and which I consider to be a finite event. 

 

Like the Four Minute Mile. It was first run by Roger Bannister and he remains the man who did it.  Other have done it since, and indeed gone faster, but nobody cares or remembers them as being special. The world mile record can be beaten and is and will be, but no-one can again be first to run the Four Minute Mile.  Likewise the Triple Crown, in my view.  Those of you trying to equate it with winning individual races are simply either not getting the point, or being deliberately obtuse.

 

But if Alonso can match Graham Hill, it will certainly be a great achievemen,t but he will still be, at best, the bloke who finally managed to equal Hill over forty year later.



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#1352 Vielleicht

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 18:47

...

Like the Four Minute Mile. It was first run by Roger Bannister and he remains the man who did it.  Other have done it since, and indeed gone faster, but nobody cares or remembers them as being special.

...

But if Alonso can match Graham Hill, it will certainly be a great achievemen,t but he will still be, at best, the bloke who finally managed to equal Hill over forty year later.

I don't think that's a suitable comparison. The second person to run a mile in under 4 minutes did so only a couple of months later and people have been doing so ever since. The summit of Mount Everest was reached for the second time around 3 years later and now it's a fairly common thing - even teenagers have 'summited' now.

 

Graham Hill won the so called Triple Crown in 1972...and no one has matched that achievement in getting on for 50 years. Yes, he will only ever be the second person. But it is nothing like the Four Minute Mile or Mount Everest becuase no one has managed it since.



#1353 garoidb

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 18:51

Correct.  What is this Triple Crown of Endurance?  Never heard of such a thing.  And why were you talking about about Phil Hill and Jackie Oliver?  You have totally lost me.

 

We were discussing the so-called Triple Crown of winning the F1 WDC (or alternatively, the F1 Monaco GP), the 24 Hours of Le Mans and the Indy 500.  Which just one person has done - in either iteration - and which I consider to be a finite event. 

 

Like the Four Minute Mile. It was first run by Roger Bannister and he remains the man who did it.  Other have done it since, and indeed gone faster, but nobody cares or remembers them as being special. The world mile record can be beaten and is and will be, but no-one can again be first to run the Four Minute Mile.  Likewise the Triple Crown, in my view.  Those of you trying to equate it with winning individual races are simply either not getting the point, or being deliberately obtuse.

 

But if Alonso can match Graham Hill, it will certainly be a great achievemen,t but he will still be, at best, the bloke who finally managed to equal Hill over forty year later.

 

If Fernando manages to win the Indy 500, he will have done it in a different order to Graham. Therefore, if you will only recognise things done for the first time you will still be able to appreciate the achievement.  :)

 

More seriously, if Fernando were to win Indy (and that may never happen) the headline should be about that and not some notional triple crown. 



#1354 BRG

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 19:06

If Fernando manages to win the Indy 500, he will have done it in a different order to Graham. Therefore, if you will only recognise things done for the first time you will still be able to appreciate the achievement.  :)

 

More seriously, if Fernando were to win Indy (and that may never happen) the headline should be about that and not some notional triple crown. 

Perhaps we could call it the Treble Coronet?

 

I fear the headlines will dredge up the T.C. though.  You can trust the media to do that.



#1355 Henri Greuter

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 19:30

Correct.  What is this Triple Crown of Endurance?  Never heard of such a thing.  And why were you talking about about Phil Hill and Jackie Oliver?  You have totally lost me.

 

We were discussing the so-called Triple Crown of winning the F1 WDC (or alternatively, the F1 Monaco GP), the 24 Hours of Le Mans and the Indy 500.  Which just one person has done - in either iteration - and which I consider to be a finite event. 

 

Like the Four Minute Mile. It was first run by Roger Bannister and he remains the man who did it.  Other have done it since, and indeed gone faster, but nobody cares or remembers them as being special. The world mile record can be beaten and is and will be, but no-one can again be first to run the Four Minute Mile.  Likewise the Triple Crown, in my view.  Those of you trying to equate it with winning individual races are simply either not getting the point, or being deliberately obtuse.

 

But if Alonso can match Graham Hill, it will certainly be a great achievemen,t but he will still be, at best, the bloke who finally managed to equal Hill over forty year later.

 

 

Seriously.....

 

You are not aware of the Triple Crown of Endurance????? And not even having taken the time to google what it is?

 

It is for drivers who won the classics events of Endurance:  Le Mans 24 hours, Sebring 12 Hours and the Daytona 24 Hours.

Easy at it may sound given the fact that several drivers have achieved it already, there are a number of big names in long distance racing who never got it done.

Bob Wollek for example, he won the American events, a multiple Daytona Winner but his `home` event, Le Mans was impossible for him.

But nine time le mans winner Tom Kristensen aint on the list either because of never winning Daytona....

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...t)#Triple_Crown

 

 Regarding the triple crown as won by Hill, we have to agree on disagreeing in opinions.

The only thing I could add in favour of Alonso and Montoya (Gee, now I'm really turning myself into the attorney of the devil...) Graham might hav had it easier back then than current driver nowadays given the fact that F1 drivers rarely get permission to drive anything else during the season, let alone that non-f1 drivers are instantly hired to drive for one of the two, three top teams within F1, something needed to stand a chance to win either F1 title or Monaco.

OK, from here I'll drop the point.



#1356 boillot

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 20:30

Correct. What is this Triple Crown of Endurance? Never heard of such a thing. And why were you talking about about Phil Hill and Jackie Oliver? You have totally lost me.

We were discussing the so-called Triple Crown of winning the F1 WDC (or alternatively, the F1 Monaco GP), the 24 Hours of Le Mans and the Indy 500. Which just one person has done - in either iteration - and which I consider to be a finite event.

Like the Four Minute Mile. It was first run by Roger Bannister and he remains the man who did it. Other have done it since, and indeed gone faster, but nobody cares or remembers them as being special. The world mile record can be beaten and is and will be, but no-one can again be first to run the Four Minute Mile. Likewise the Triple Crown, in my view. Those of you trying to equate it with winning individual races are simply either not getting the point, or being deliberately obtuse.

But if Alonso can match Graham Hill, it will certainly be a great achievemen,t but he will still be, at best, the bloke who finally managed to equal Hill over forty year later.

I’m not the smartest person in the world but I’m probably not the dumbest one either.

Yet, however I try to understand your point, whatever possible interpretation I try to figure out, your point still does not make sense. And it’s not like it’s close to making sense, it’s a complete and utter nonsense.

Four minute mile was a milestone that was bound to be broken due to improvements in training methods, nutrition, tracks, human evolution, shoes, whatever. Winning the triple crown did not become any easier over the years because it’s a fundamentally different thing, a different artefact or category if you want, in comparison with improvement in speed.

Four minute mile is the equivalent of e.g. the first 200 mph Indy qualifying lap and not of winning the triple crown. Winning Indy did not become easier as the cars got faster. You are comparing apples and oranges here, I’m afraid.

Edited by boillot, 01 February 2019 - 20:42.


#1357 BRG

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 19:37

Seriously.....

 

You are not aware of the Triple Crown of Endurance????? And not even having taken the time to google what it is?

Nope, never ever heard of it.  And I have been following motor sport for a long time.

 

But you live and learn.

I’m not the smartest person in the world but I’m probably not the dumbest one either.

Yet, however I try to understand your point, whatever possible interpretation I try to figure out, your point still does not make sense. And it’s not like it’s close to making sense, it’s a complete and utter nonsense.

I will try one more time, as it seems that either I am propounding a point of such abstruse philosophical substance that it is beyond people, or more likely I have not explained it properly.

 

In my view, there are Landmark Events, such as the first man (& woman) in space, the first person to break the sound-barrier, the first person to climb Everest, the first person to sail single-handed round the world, the first person to fly the Atlantic single-handed, the first person to walk on the Moon, the first person to break the four minute mile and so on.  All of these have been repeated subsequently but there can only be one person who was the first. 

 

I consider the Triple Crown to be such a landmark event, at least amongst racing folk.  It has been achieved.  It may be repeated, but there can only be one person who did it first. 

 

If people cannot follow this, even if they don't agree with it, I give up.  Let's move on.



#1358 E.B.

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 19:50

If it was such a landmark event why was it only invented after it had been done, and why do more recent motorsport fans even disagree on the definition by trying to bring the Monaco GP into it? Not to mention other proper variants eg Al Unser in 1978.

#1359 boillot

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 20:07

 

If people cannot follow this, even if they don't agree with it, I give up.  Let's move on.

 

The fundamental logical categories you are talking about are different, yet you are mixing them together.

The 4-minute mile (and Hillary on Mt. Everest, etc.) was a result of progress that made such achievement possible. It was a milestone for a reason, because the general progress in technology, kinesiology, nutrition and evolution brought humans to this border and it happened that Bannister was the first one to break it. If it were not him, somebody else would have done it around that time because the circumstances became right.

In general, all this progress made this achievement possible and gradually ever easier for new generations of runners (and climbers). That's why it's a one-off.

 

Winning triple crown is something completely different. No matter what progress has been made, no matter how much cars became faster or easier to drive or no matter how the driving techniques advance, the difficulty of winning the triple crown is completely unaffected by these factors. Therefore, it's a feat that's more or less always equally hard to achieve. There are no particular circumstances that can make triple crown easier to achieve from one moment on. That's why it belongs to a completely different category of artefacts.

 

Now even if you are only slightly talented runner, you may achieve a 4-minute mile. Everything around you makes it possible.

But now even if you are the most talented driver in the world, it's not going to be easier for you to win the triple crown than at any other time in history.

 

So, I hope I was clear. Now, you are right. Let's move on.


Edited by boillot, 02 February 2019 - 20:31.


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#1360 Dolph

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 21:35

Nope, never ever heard of it.  And I have been following motor sport for a long time.

 

But you live and learn.

I will try one more time, as it seems that either I am propounding a point of such abstruse philosophical substance that it is beyond people, or more likely I have not explained it properly.

 

In my view, there are Landmark Events, such as the first man (& woman) in space, the first person to break the sound-barrier, the first person to climb Everest, the first person to sail single-handed round the world, the first person to fly the Atlantic single-handed, the first person to walk on the Moon, the first person to break the four minute mile and so on.  All of these have been repeated subsequently but there can only be one person who was the first. 

 

I consider the Triple Crown to be such a landmark event, at least amongst racing folk.  It has been achieved.  It may be repeated, but there can only be one person who did it first. 

 

If people cannot follow this, even if they don't agree with it, I give up.  Let's move on.

 

I think everyone here follows it and agrees that you are wrong.



#1361 Ben1445

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 22:36

Nope, never ever heard of [The Endurance Triple Crown).  And I have been following motor sport for a long time.

I'll be honest I am utterly astounded at this  :|



#1362 ArchieTech

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 23:18

A good article about Alex Zanardi's preparations for Daytona:

https://arstechnica....ace-at-daytona/



#1363 McLaren1702

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 19:08

For those who live close to Oviedo or are planning to visit Fernando's museum, apparently the WTR Cadillac will be there soon! Here's a picture to his comment on Instagram. https://i.postimg.cc...8-Instagram.jpg

Translation:
"Will you have the Cadillac in your museum? It's beautiful!"

"Yes"

#1364 Afterburner

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 20:35

For those who live close to Oviedo or are planning to visit Fernando's museum, apparently the WTR Cadillac will be there soon! Here's a picture to his comment on Instagram. https://i.postimg.cc...8-Instagram.jpg

Translation:
"Will you have the Cadillac in your museum? It's beautiful!"

"Yes"

I wonder if Cadillac is attempting to revitalize their presence in the Eurozone by any chance. :cool: