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Ferrari: Arrivabene out?


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#51 pup

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 13:46

Strikes me as odd that F1 observers seem to think this is a sensible move, but forumers are generally not so sure!

The media hate him because he shut them out.

I have no idea whether this is a good move or not, but I do know that it’s one case where I’d be wary of anything the F1 press say about him. They’re going to have a field day.

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#52 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 13:50

so

- Ferrari builds a car quick enough to challenge and even overtake Mercedes and run for the titles (after a quite a long time)

- their main driver f*** up races (quite a few)

- Mercedes' main driver doesn't put a wheel wrong all season, gets probably closest to maximum points possible for him

- Ferrari drops the ball with some operational errors (with those removed, they probably wouldn't be winning the title anyway)

 

Ferrari decision is to sack the person in charge of the team

 

Crazy times



#53 Risil

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 13:52

Arrivederci, Arrivabene?



#54 wj_gibson

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 13:52

It's all going a bit 1991.



#55 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 13:53

 

Interesting from Mark Hughes on Arrivabene and the media : 

 

Mark Hughes Retweeted Motor Sport magazine

He tried zero relationship with media as a policy and intimidation of his staff (and some media). Not a very intelligent policy.

 

This sounds a little threatening.  "He tried a no protection money policy with us.  Not a very intelligent policy.  :smoking: "



#56 TomNokoe

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 14:08

Vettel has lost his teammate, has he lost his team principal too?

#57 RA2

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 14:18

It was a sad policy of not being supportive of their lead driver in those minimal press interactions he had.

It was a political move which was not good for WDC next year, thankfully the board saw it that way as well .

#58 Nonesuch

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 14:29

Interesting from Mark Hughes on Arrivabene and the media :

 
The media overestimates their own importance, and in doing so, overplays the degree to which Ferrari supposedly kept a low profile.

 

To be successful, Ferrari needs to improve its performance. Whether their senior management talks to some man or woman with a microphone or notebook is not even in the top 100 of issues.

 


#59 Sterzo

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 14:34

Totally unsurprised by this; am only surprised by how long he lasted. Not because I have any insight into how well he performed, but just because of the poor bloke's outward appearance. He arrived well, full of smiles and chat and positive outlook. Then you could detect he was under pressure. When Marchionne moved into a hands-on role, Arrivabene looked crushed and sidelined. He either chose or was told to stop talking to the press. Then a new regime came in above him, without absolute clarity about who will do what, and the guy looks defeated.

 

Now we realise he was being pressured (skewered?) from below at the same time.

 

If Arrivabene has a limitation (I won't call it a fault), it's that he's not tough enough to withstand the pressures of being Ferrari team principal. Wonder if anybody is.



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#60 motorhead

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 14:52

Interesting, who will be a new team manager in 2020 after Binotto is fired?



#61 sabjit

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 15:02

Only 3 more Ferrari Team Principles until Christmas :)



#62 Nonesuch

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 15:03

If Arrivabene has a limitation (I won't call it a fault), it's that he's not tough enough to withstand the pressures of being Ferrari team principal. Wonder if anybody is.

 

Word has it he made it to president of the whole kit and caboodle.

 

Schumi-michael-schumacher-17111004-362-4



#63 Fatgadget

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 15:34

That has been the case for the last 5 years, and will be again this year. Hamilton will win again, the question is only by how many points and at what race in the calendar.

3fd726165d73142f14ea70a1bdb59264--futura



#64 Nathan

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 15:44

So what have Binotto and Ariie been squabbling over all these months?



#65 MikeV1987

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 16:00

I like Maurizio but this is not surprising. Pretty sure there were rumors of this last season.

Edited by MikeV1987, 07 January 2019 - 16:04.


#66 Calorus

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 16:12

Let's be honest; Ferrari had the car edge (on average) over the season, but Hamilton was so much better than Vettel that not even Raikkonen's advantage over Bottas could salvage any silverware.

Sacking Arrivabene will change nothing but moving Binotto could be catastrophic.

This year will be a pretty much straight fight between LeClerc and Hamilton with Verstappen either winning or retiring (mostly retiring). Vettel's only contribution will be nicking the odd point off LeClerc when the Ferrari is perfectly dialled in.



#67 Unicast

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 16:16

Let's be honest; Ferrari had the car edge (on average) over the season, but Hamilton was so much better than Vettel that not even Raikkonen's advantage over Bottas could salvage any silverware.

Sacking Arrivabene will change nothing but moving Binotto could be catastrophic.

This year will be a pretty much straight fight between LeClerc and Hamilton with Verstappen either winning or retiring (mostly retiring). Vettel's only contribution will be nicking the odd point off LeClerc when the Ferrari is perfectly dialled in.

 

It's nice that you have a crystal ball and can tell the future with such accuracy! happy for you  :up:  :up:  :up:


Edited by Unicast, 07 January 2019 - 16:17.


#68 Hellow

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 16:24

First post here so hello everyone!

 

This is not a surprising move from Ferrari but it saddens me and in generally I do see this as unwise move and can cause a disaster.


 

so

- Ferrari builds a car quick enough to challenge and even overtake Mercedes and run for the titles (after a quite a long time)

- their main driver f*** up races (quite a few)

- Mercedes' main driver doesn't put a wheel wrong all season, gets probably closest to maximum points possible for him

- Ferrari drops the ball with some operational errors (with those removed, they probably wouldn't be winning the title anyway)

 

Ferrari decision is to sack the person in charge of the team

 

Crazy times

 

 

 

MikeTekRacing did sum it pretty well. Of course I hope that this was a right decision and Ferrari will get back to nr. 1 spot. :)

 

But anyway I gotta make a prediction so mark my words because this is the way I see things will go in next few years.

 

- This year (2019) is going to be more or less like last year (2018) was because they've already build the car mostly before big changes. Lewis is the champion of the year followed by Seb - the gap between Ferrari and Mercedes will increase and Red Bull will get close behind Ferrari. No big crew changes for Ferrari during year 2019.

 

- The year 2020 will be once again year of Lewis and Mercedes. Ferrari will drop their ball badly without good team principle and tecnical director. Red Bull will be second fastest (if they get things work with Honda) and Ferrari could even be overtaken by Sauber made by Resta (and tuned by Raikkonen).

 

TLDR: Mercedes is going to have their reign a long extension. Ferrari will drop their ball. Hopefully this prediction is totally wrong and we can have a new Ferrari champion after long time.  :cool: 



#69 Calorus

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 16:32

It's nice that you have a crystal ball and can tell the future with such accuracy! happy for you  :up:  :up:  :up:

 

I might be wrong (I won't), but that's why it's fun watch the races...


Edited by Calorus, 07 January 2019 - 16:32.


#70 Cirio

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 16:35

They fired the wrong guy, they should have got rid of Vettel. Let's see, Alonso's not busy....  ;)



#71 Fatgadget

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 16:43

They fired the wrong guy, they should have got rid of Vettel. Let's see, Alonso's not busy....  ;)

Alonso burnt his bridge on the way out of Maranello already!



#72 SonGoku

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 16:44

Don't know if this will work, when Arrivabene arrived we saw the usual good feeling stories we read right now about Binotto. Another guy, another new face, until the honeymoon period is over and they are under pressure again. 

 

Must be great to be Vettel though, you can massively underperform, collect your big paycheck and the ''coach'' gets all the blame and fired.



#73 Showty

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 17:34

Alonso burnt his bridge on the way out of Maranello already!


Just like Lebron James did with the Cavs, only to play for them again and actually deliver their first championship ever.

This is Ferrari, if 2019 follows the same pattern, good car (best car at some point), Vettel underperforming...i will say anything is possible. Even that.

I expect LeClerc to do great though.

#74 lio007

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 17:35

Confirmed:
https://formula1.fer...ouncement-2019/

#75 Cirio

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 17:42

Just like Lebron James did with the Cavs, only to play for them again and actually deliver their first championship ever.

This is Ferrari, if 2019 follows the same pattern, good car (best car at some point), Vettel underperforming...i will say anything is possible. Even that.

I expect LeClerc to do great though.

I hope so too. It would be great to see him outperform Vettel.



#76 Maustinsj

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 17:45

Only 3 more Ferrari Team Principles until Christmas :)


*principals.

Ferrari don’t have that many team principles 😜

#77 Marklar

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 17:45

Vettel has lost his teammate, has he lost his team principal too?

I read a while ago that Binotto is a great supporter of Vettel, so probably no.
 

Don't know if this will work, when Arrivabene arrived we saw the usual good feeling stories we read right now about Binotto. Another guy, another new face, until the honeymoon period is over and they are under pressure again. 

At least Binotto has a motorosport specific competence, whether this means that he is a good TP is remain to be seen though. And also what negative impact his departure from the technical department could have.

 

Must be great to be Vettel though, you can massively underperform, collect your big paycheck and the ''coach'' gets all the blame and fired.

He is most likely next if they fail again this year though. Dropping the "coach" is always easier especially if you dont really have options on the driver position ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



#78 Enzoluis

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 17:57

Failure is not tolerated by Ferrari.
 
Unfortunately neither is stable long-term management.


They tolareted six years of Domenicali.

#79 Jovanotti

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 18:00

Scapegoat over a petty power struggle imo. Not expecting much from this.

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#80 Enzoluis

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 18:06

First post here so hello everyone!
 
This is not a surprising move from Ferrari but it saddens me and in generally I do see this as unwise move and can cause a disaster.

 
 
 
 
MikeTekRacing did sum it pretty well. Of course I hope that this was a right decision and Ferrari will get back to nr. 1 spot. :)
 
But anyway I gotta make a prediction so mark my words because this is the way I see things will go in next few years.
 
- This year (2019) is going to be more or less like last year (2018) was because they've already build the car mostly before big changes. Lewis is the champion of the year followed by Seb - the gap between Ferrari and Mercedes will increase and Red Bull will get close behind Ferrari. No big crew changes for Ferrari during year 2019.
 
- The year 2020 will be once again year of Lewis and Mercedes. Ferrari will drop their ball badly without good team principle and tecnical director. Red Bull will be second fastest (if they get things work with Honda) and Ferrari could even be overtaken by Sauber made by Resta (and tuned by Raikkonen).
 
TLDR: Mercedes is going to have their reign a long extension. Ferrari will drop their ball. Hopefully this prediction is totally wrong and we can have a new Ferrari champion after long time.  :cool:


This scenario has high probability to be real if the past is predictor of the future. Fortunatly it isn´t and I can keep my hope.

#81 Nonesuch

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 18:13

Another guy, another new face, until the honeymoon period is over and they are under pressure again.

 

Or rather, until they hit their ceiling and can no longer contribute anything to the team.

 

Ferrari made a good step going into 2015, and then into 2017. The team couldn't repeat that in 2018, and did pretty much the same thing again, with the same result.

 

Time for someone new, someone who might be able to give the team another step upwards.

 

Must be great to be Vettel though, you can massively underperform, collect your big paycheck and the ''coach'' gets all the blame and fired.

 

If it wasn't for Vettel, the only thing to talk about in the last decade of F1 would be whether Hamilton can beat Schumacher clinching the title in July.

 

It's fair enough to be disappointed that F1's championship battles have been rather dull since 2012, but how about spreading the love to the other 18 underperforming also-rans? One of them even has the same car Hamilton has!



#82 Enzoluis

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 18:13

I like Binotto because he resenble Mauro Forghieri, I fear Binotto as it seems some 2018 strategic errors were his responsability.

#83 shonguiz

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 18:23

I welcome this move.



#84 Massa

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 18:25

Great news

#85 GiorgioF1

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 18:33

Friggin finally. It was obvious after Austria and Monza that the cigarette man is out of his element as a TP. Toto in his place whould have never allowed these things to happen.



#86 CrashPad

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 18:49

Can't really say how this will affect the performance of Ferrari, but I know this:

The team is not half as likeable as they where in 2018  :|



#87 Alfisti

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 18:59

That hair tho. 



#88 Spillage

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 18:59

I think this is just daft. They're much better now than they were when Arrivabene took over. This could set them back another couple of years. And for no reason. It's amazing how they've forgotten the lessons of the Todt-Brawn-Byrne era; stability brings success.

#89 P123

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 19:00

Or rather, until they hit their ceiling and can no longer contribute anything to the team.
 
Ferrari made a good step going into 2015, and then into 2017. The team couldn't repeat that in 2018, and did pretty much the same thing again, with the same result.
 
Time for someone new, someone who might be able to give the team another step upwards.

 
 
If it wasn't for Vettel, the only thing to talk about in the last decade of F1 would be whether Hamilton can beat Schumacher clinching the title in July.
 
It's fair enough to be disappointed that F1's championship battles have been rather dull since 2012, but how about spreading the love to the other 18 underperforming also-rans? One of them even has the same car Hamilton has!


I'm sure Alonso was around this past decade too!

I'm not sure why the denial about 2018, apart from extreme fluffing of Vettel's pillows! Or perhaps you meant Rosberg with respect to preventing Hamilton having a July chamipnship.  ;) Ferrari made a good step. But for driver error they would have locked out the front row on three of the first four races. They were the fastest package in numerous races which they failed to capitalise fully on. Ditching Arrivabene is only likely to resolve some issues (yet no team is perfect operationally, and certainly not Merc either), but using Binotto as the filler may only weaken them elsewhere. In particular the engine is as strong as anything else on the grid now. Their lead driver shed points with numerous costly errors, and they employed a driver in the second seat for several years who only bucks up around contract signing time, except this time they offed him just at the point they needed him most (although he never did get the chance to assist...!). However, the much sainted Marchionne was planning that anyway. They were well below the potential of the car, but I suspect Arrivabene is more of a scapegoat than anything else, and this move will only increase the pressure internally.

#90 stringyb92

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 19:04

Vettel has lost his teammate, has he lost his team principal too?

I dont think Vettel signed any contract with Maurizio in control. So i wouldnt say they had any particular close relationship! 



#91 pup

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 19:06

Alonso burnt his bridge on the way out of Maranello already!

Ah, but are any of those people still there?  He returned to McLaren while Dennis was still around.



#92 AustinF1

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 19:07

I've been hearing dribs and drabs about this all morning all over twitter. Will Buxton has just started to tweet about it. He's called it the Red Wedding. :lol:

 

I was expecting this.

I was kinda expecting it, too. Seems a certain poster here was right when he pm'd me in August, saying that the technical side was at war with Arrivabene. This might not be good for a certain driver...and very good for another.


Edited by AustinF1, 07 January 2019 - 19:07.


#93 SCUDmissile

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 19:11

Ah the esteemed minds of the autosport racing forums have decreed again that the most winning F1 team and one of the top car manufacturers in the world don't know what they're doing and it's all wrong wrong wrong. 😁

#94 Oho

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 19:11

Friggin finally. It was obvious after Austria and Monza that the cigarette man is out of his element as a TP. Toto in his place whould have never allowed these things to happen.

 

No kidding.... 



#95 as65p

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 19:12

If it wasn't for Vettel, the only thing to talk about in the last decade of F1 would be whether Hamilton can beat Schumacher clinching the title in July.

 

Uhmm..., that's a mighty stretch. It:s basically saying everyone else on the grid would have made the same no. or more mistakes than Vettel those last two years.



#96 anyeis

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 19:15

Arrivabene was too kind to Kimi. Probably few decisions costed 50+ points

#97 Afterburner

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 19:15

3fd726165d73142f14ea70a1bdb59264--futura

Put it in the trash and see how many ants start crawling all over it...

#98 AustinF1

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 19:21

He must be talking about other people (engineers, strategists...), there is no way they will get rid of Vettel before the 2019 season starts and it's probably too soon to know if they will continue with Vettel beyond 2019. Vettel has a contract until the end of 2020 though.

I thought it was til the end of 2019...did I misremember a la Bill Clinton?



#99 AustinF1

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 19:26

Vettel has lost his teammate, has he lost his team principal too?

IMHO since Germany or Monza, Vettel's had the body language of a guy who's on his way out.



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#100 Nonesuch

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 19:48

I'm not sure why the denial about 2018, apart from extreme fluffing of Vettel's pillows! Or perhaps you meant Rosberg with respect to preventing Hamilton having a July chamipnship.   ;)

 
I'll be the first to admit I don't always succeed in doing so, but I try not to bring up Rosberg when discussing Hamilton. I can do without another run-down of all the terrible and disproportional technical misfortune Hamilton faced every time he lost to Rosberg.

 

 ;)

 

I suspect Arrivabene is more of a scapegoat than anything else, and this move will only increase the pressure internally.

 
Possible, but he is the man in charge. At some point that responsibility comes knocking. He's been there for four years, that's a good stint. I'm not sure how true the stories about Ferrari's pressure are. Or rather, all F1 teams are under pressure. I'm convinced Mercedes didn't become the most dominant team ever by having staff that shows up for work and takes it easy, only to go home an hour early.  The trick is having a good organisation to get these people to do the best they can.

 

If the stories are to be believed, Arrivabene and Marchionne straightened out a lot of the faults in the operation of the team. That's good. But now it's time for someone else to take things even further. We'll see if that works out. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. Time will tell!
 

Uhmm..., that's a mighty stretch. It:s basically saying everyone else on the grid would have made the same no. or more mistakes than Vettel those last two years.

 
Not quite. It's saying that Vettel was the one making these championships interesting. It's fair enough that some think Rosberg was an interesting foil for Hamilton, but I don't. Other than those three dreadfully boring years, Vettel has been the man in the championship spotlight, right from 2009 through to today.

 

Why others weren't around to compete for championships is their problem. It is of course true that I neglected to mention Alonso was also major player in 2010 and 2012, as these were three or even four-way squabbles. Fair enough.


Edited by Nonesuch, 07 January 2019 - 19:51.