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Renault Technical Thread (R.S.19)


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#4951 Lemojn

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 02:04

Does anyone actually know what Cyril's family connections are? The only mention I've seen of it is from that Mark Hughes article, but he wasn't very specific.



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#4952 Gambelli

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 07:36

How so?  :)   Why should Renault spend excessively?

 

Renault are not in F1 to win at any cost.  They are in F1 to be prudent and to achieve  modest marketing and brand promotion targets AFAIK, winning does not appear to be Renault's objective -- why begrude a Renault team who are happy to compete for the spirit of racing, instead of the ruthless win-at-all-costs mantra.

 

 

 

I agree with what you say, but I assume that Renault, year on year, said we need x people in x positions with x tools to win, we aren't going to spend beyond that, lets be sensible.

 

But then they can get Ricciardo, but he's expensive, so they find half the budget for him, but then make cut backs in areas where supposedly they felt there was prudent need for expansion/spending.  So if you want Ricciardo, either you can afford him or you can't, but to take money away from somewhere else when you are trying to progressively build seems to me to be counter productive....



#4953 Reddington

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 13:12

Where are Neno and gowebber? We need them to balance this thread. Are they MIA?

#4954 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 13:16

But then they can get Ricciardo, but he's expensive, so they find half the budget for him, but then make cut backs in areas where supposedly they felt there was prudent need for expansion/spending.  So if you want Ricciardo, either you can afford him or you can't, but to take money away from somewhere else when you are trying to progressively build seems to me to be counter productive....

 

I think you are assuming Ricciardo was signed for logical reasons, and not merely to spite Red Bull Racing.   ;)



#4955 gowebber

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 16:00

Where are Neno and gowebber? We need them to balance this thread. Are they MIA?

 

I'm here. Just enjoying the break and the free time!   ;)



#4956 rootten

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 20:27

I think you are assuming Ricciardo was signed for logical reasons, and not merely to spite Red Bull Racing.   ;)

funny guy



#4957 Gambelli

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 22:50

funny guy

 

...I'm not sure he's that wrong.......



#4958 Reddington

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Posted 17 August 2019 - 06:11

...I'm not sure he's that wrong.......


Agreed. Wouldn’t have been the only reason, Dan is a great driver to have, but Cyril definitely loved rubbing it in.

#4959 goldenboy

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Posted 17 August 2019 - 06:37

Agreed. Wouldn’t have been the only reason, Dan is a great driver to have, but Cyril definitely loved rubbing it in.

Ricciardo was not hired in any way to spite red bull. Renault were thinking the same as McLaren. It was a nice side affect for them though..

Edited by goldenboy, 17 August 2019 - 06:37.


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#4960 Reddington

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Posted 17 August 2019 - 10:15

Ricciardo was not hired in any way to spite red bull. Renault were thinking the same as McLaren. It was a nice side affect for them though..


So glad you set me straight...!

#4961 statman

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Posted 17 August 2019 - 11:28

Autosport:

 



#4962 gowebber

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 21:54

Well if its true with the spec-c thats nice but yeah what about the chassis. Hurry up Spa!

 

"Renault's possible engine upgrade could give them an extra 10-15 HP"

https://www.gpblog.c...a-10-15-hp.html


Edited by gowebber, 20 August 2019 - 03:48.


#4963 A3

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 11:03

Interesting piece on test benches:

https://www.auto-mot...verlaessigkeit/
 Google translate:

Only the top three teams own one of these VTT monsters. Cost: at least 15 million euros. Open to the top. Renault is considering to purchase such a system until 2021. If you want to keep up with the top teams, this is almost essential. It's probably no coincidence that Renault and its McLaren customer are only in 8th and 9th place in reliability statistics. They have a total of seven of the eleven technical failures to answer for.


Red Bull's chassis reliability went up this year as Honda provides them with more engines to test on the VTT, so they can run for longer and test more. I've said this before, without one of these things Renault are not going to bother the top 3. $15 million is peanuts in the grand scheme of things, so I don't understand why they didn't invest in this.

Edited by A3, 21 August 2019 - 11:03.


#4964 eREr

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 11:03

Interesting piece on test benches:

https://www.auto-mot...verlaessigkeit/
 Google translate:

Red Bull's chassis reliability went up this year as Honda provides them with more engines to test on the VTT, so they can run for longer and test more. I've said this before, without one of these things Renault are not going to bother the top 3. $15 million is peanuts in the grand scheme of things, so I don't understand why they didn't invest in this.

 

Instead of paying millions for Ric this could have been a better investment for the team. If Renault is serious with their F1 program, they must invest in VTT. If they won't do that, they will leave the sport by 21/22.



#4965 Ivanhoe

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Posted 29 August 2019 - 12:47

So Abiteboul adjusting the goals, fighting for world titles in 2021...

 

In 2016, Renault made its return to Formula 1 with high expectations, but had to start that season with an old car developed by Lotus (the team that Renault took over at the end of 2015), as there had been no time to develop a new car. to design. The French racing team scored only eight points that season, as a result of which the year was virtually lost.

Partly as a result of this, according to team boss Cyril Abiteboul, Renault had to adjust the goal of competing for the world title in 2020, he says in conversation with the F1 Racing magazine: "Because we actually lost a year in 2016, we have set our goal for the in the longer term, not in five, but in six seasons, in 2021, we would compete for the world title. "

But whether 2021 is a realistic goal remains to be seen. In any case, Abiteboul still has faith in the stated ambition to participate in the prizes in two seasons: "I am certainly fully behind our plan, but the steps that need to be taken internally seem larger than we initially did anticipate, "said the Frenchman.

This season, Renault is disappointing. Last season they were still 'best of the rest', but this year McLaren's customer team outperformed them, among other things, and after 12 races the French team only found themselves in sixth place in the championship for the constructors.


#4966 goldenboy

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Posted 29 August 2019 - 12:59

So Abiteboul adjusting the goals, fighting for world titles in 2021...

Well... Kind of have to when you fail.

As much as i dislike Cyril, I will never fault people or organisations for failing goals as long as they are ambitious goals.

#4967 A3

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Posted 29 August 2019 - 13:06

Well... Kind of have to when you fail.

As much as i dislike Cyril, I will never fault people or organisations for failing goals as long as they are ambitious goals.

 

 

To say you're going to fight for the championship with much less of a budget than the top 3 could be called ambitious. I call it naive.



#4968 goldenboy

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Posted 29 August 2019 - 13:09

To say you're going to fight for the championship with much less of a budget than the top 3 could be called ambitious. I call it naive.

That's fair enough I suppose. I'm just a personal believer in big goals that are almost unattainable.

Almost definitely achievable goals is kinda weak sauce lol.

Edited by goldenboy, 29 August 2019 - 13:09.


#4969 eREr

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Posted 30 August 2019 - 09:23

New spec c ICEs are in both cars. So 5 place grid penalties are coming for Sunday.



#4970 A3

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Posted 30 August 2019 - 10:05

I've subscribed to F1 TV, the Renault engine has a very nice winding sound to it. 



#4971 gowebber

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Posted 30 August 2019 - 14:22

That Perez FP2 time is quick. Just off Merc and ahead of Max. Renault .6 off Perez. Lucky it's only Friday. 🤔🤪😁

Edited by gowebber, 30 August 2019 - 14:25.


#4972 Flasheart

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 06:16

It’s good to have some on track action again.
Are there any reports yet on what order all the penalties will be applied? It is to do with when the paperwork is lodged, isn’t it?

#4973 Flasheart

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 06:21

I've subscribed to F1 TV, the Renault engine has a very nice winding sound to it.


Good luck getting through the weekend without issues. You’ll be in the minority.

The Renault turbo has always been most audible. Not sure if it’s down to the unit itself, or the makeup of wastegate/exhaust setup. Someone much cleverer than me should know. Anyone?

#4974 Reddington

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 06:34

That Perez FP2 time is quick. Just off Merc and ahead of Max. Renault .6 off Perez. Lucky it's only Friday. 🤔🤪😁

Perez was quick indeed.

Max set his time on the yellow Medium, while stuffing up the bus stop chicane with a detuned old ‘Friday’ engine though.

And Lewis was having his throttle issue. I expect the Mercs and Red Bulls to be faster today.

Edited by Reddington, 31 August 2019 - 06:36.


#4975 MortenF1

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 06:57

Well... Kind of have to when you fail.

As much as i dislike Cyril, I will never fault people or organisations for failing goals as long as they are ambitious goals.

IMO there is no point in having ambitions if you dont reach any of them.

#4976 shure

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 07:10

Instead of paying millions for Ric this could have been a better investment for the team. If Renault is serious with their F1 program, they must invest in VTT. If they won't do that, they will leave the sport by 21/22.

$15M is virtually negligible in F1 terms, especially when the figure may be spread over several years.  It shouldn't even need to be an either or scenario for that decision.  The only link I'd place to Ricciardo is that the figures they allegedly paid him were supposed to show intent, which makes it all the more strange that they would show such ambition in the driver market but none on the technical side.    And if that's the true cost then I find the decision unfathomable.



#4977 A3

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 08:17

IMO there is no point in having ambitions if you dont reach any of them.


They're not even giving the impression of trying. Sure, they're improving engine wise. But not so much as a team that they can expect to challenge for titles in a couple of years.

#4978 eREr

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 11:58

Positive weekend up to now.

Anyway what's the point to remove spec c ICE for the remainder of the weekend on a power track?

#4979 Amz964

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 12:04

Positive weekend up to now.

Anyway what's the point to remove spec c ICE for the remainder of the weekend on a power track?


They wanted to take the penalties at Spa because it's an easier track it overtake and they wanted the C spec to be in the race pool for future races at least according to reports. But agree thought they would race with it on a track like this.

I agree positive weekend up until this point especially on Danny Ric side Hulk still seems to be struggling a bit.

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#4980 eREr

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 12:29

They wanted to take the penalties at Spa because it's an easier track it overtake and they wanted the C spec to be in the race pool for future races at least according to reports. But agree thought they would race with it on a track like this.

I agree positive weekend up until this point especially on Danny Ric side Hulk still seems to be struggling a bit.


Ok, Dan explained the decision. From Amus:

Daniel Ricciardo explains the change back to the old engine with a grin: "I wanted the penalty at Spa because it's easier to overtake here and I'll win in Monza."
:D :D

#4981 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 12:53

Makes no sense to me. Spa and Monza are both power tracks, so you would expect them to use spec C in both and use spec B in less power sensitive tracks like Singapore. Not convinced they haven’t seen something in the telemetry that they didn’t like and have come up with some lousy excuse to avoid scrutiny.

Edited by FullOppositeLock, 31 August 2019 - 13:30.


#4982 goldenboy

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 13:23

IMO there is no point in having ambitions if you dont reach any of them.

So everything would be all fine if they set a goal from the beginning to be challenging for wdc in 8 years instead of 6?

What would you prefer for your own biz.

Fail a 5 year goal of 10 million annual revenue by 3 million or succeed in your 5 year goal of 5 million revenue?

There's a really good book about this called the magic of thinking big. Bit off topic though i suppose.

#4983 Amz964

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 14:18

Great qualy from us. Shame about the penalties but at least only 5 places so they are still within the fight. What's more encouraging is that we have thanks to low downforce good speed in S1 and S3 so overtaking should be good for us. Glad to be writing something more positive. Was not expecting great things this weekend from the car but glad to be proven wrong at the moment. This car does seem to do ok on medium-high speed circuits.

Edited by Amz964, 31 August 2019 - 14:23.


#4984 eREr

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 14:18

Is it the track or the changes/(small) upgrades on the car?

#4985 gowebber

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 14:22

We were quick at Silverstone. Car is quick in low DF configuration on these high speed tracks.


Edited by gowebber, 31 August 2019 - 14:22.


#4986 Amz964

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 14:22

Is it the track or the changes/(small) upgrades on the car?


Don't remember the team saying anything about any upgrades and pics have seen from the car don't notice anything different however could be small things underneath. Due to the high-speed corners was not expecting the car to do well but seems to be doing ok.

#4987 goldenboy

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 14:30

Very nice. Dan didn't improve on his last run and was just shy of Max before it. I had a little hope of him getting there but impossible with what Max pulled out on his last run.

#4988 A310V6

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 14:54

Good job Renault  :clap: A3 it looks like Honda needs more VTT testing..... :drunk:



#4989 f1paul

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 14:58

Great job Renault. Surprised me a lot!



#4990 gowebber

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 15:19

Tactical reason behind going back to spec b engines

 

https://www.planetf1...spec-b-engines/

 

So correct me if I'm wrong but they introduced spec c and ran it in prac then go back to spec b and incur a penalty here but then it allows them to use those spec c almost fresh at Monza without penalty.

 

Also Dan said  in the post qualli interview they made some good changes to the car overnight that helped them alot. Also said the race pace is good and seemed confident about Sunday.


Edited by gowebber, 31 August 2019 - 15:29.


#4991 statman

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 15:53

new spec engine:

 

https://www.grandpri...ints-sainz.html

 

Sainz admits he "expected more" from the new Renault.

 

"The new engine? I didn't notice anything. There is nothing new in terms of performance. "It is the C specification, so there will be no more engine improvements now. I expected a little more, but if I'm honest there isn't much at all," he added.



#4992 rootten

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 15:58

We’ll see in Italy, Norris won’t have the new spec so we’ll be able to compare 



#4993 MortenF1

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 16:09

So everything would be all fine if they set a goal from the beginning to be challenging for wdc in 8 years instead of 6?

What would you prefer for your own biz.

Fail a 5 year goal of 10 million annual revenue by 3 million or succeed in your 5 year goal of 5 million revenue?

There's a really good book about this called the magic of thinking big. Bit off topic though i suppose.

I set ambitious goals for myself and the crew, but they have to be reachable given the resources allocated towards those goals.
Renault are trying to sell a fairy tale. There is no point, I mean that, in their goals, ‘cause they’re not doing what needs to be done. Surely they must know?

#4994 eREr

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 16:15

Don't remember the team saying anything about any upgrades and pics have seen from the car don't notice anything different however could be small things underneath. Due to the high-speed corners was not expecting the car to do well but seems to be doing ok.

 

There are some on the car, e.g. rear wing endplates, new elements in rear suspension, some weight reduction on the bodywork (I can not find the article where all these were listed by Chester). Theoretically nothing fundamental, just some improvements.

 

It was good to see that Renault was again very strong (at least in Q), only opponent was Kimi. Mc was nowhere today (and yesterday too) and RB was not that far ahead.



#4995 eREr

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 16:19

new spec engine:

 

https://www.grandpri...ints-sainz.html

 

Sainz admits he "expected more" from the new Renault.

 

"The new engine? I didn't notice anything. There is nothing new in terms of performance. "It is the C specification, so there will be no more engine improvements now. I expected a little more, but if I'm honest there isn't much at all," he added.

 

Extra 10-15hp was reported. Would you feel this in the cockpit in the 1000hp range? Even if the performance gain is zero, it might be still more economical (more efficient) than spec b or the drivers can use the high performance modes longer. And it shall be more reliable.



#4996 eREr

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 16:20

We’ll see in Italy, Norris won’t have the new spec so we’ll be able to compare 

 

He will get it in Monza.



#4997 eREr

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 16:24

Tactical reason behind going back to spec b engines

 

https://www.planetf1...spec-b-engines/

 

So correct me if I'm wrong but they introduced spec c and ran it in prac then go back to spec b and incur a penalty here but then it allows them to use those spec c almost fresh at Monza without penalty.

 

Also Dan said  in the post qualli interview they made some good changes to the car overnight that helped them alot. Also said the race pace is good and seemed confident about Sunday.

 

Starting from P11 and P12 they shall finish around P7-P9 tomorrow. Kimi, Perez and Albon might be their opponents.



#4998 gowebber

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 16:35

Starting from P11 and P12 they shall finish around P7-P9 tomorrow. Kimi, Perez and Albon might be their opponents.

 

Depends what kind of start they get tho too. Also any crashes, reliability issues from those in front and who knows how far up we can go.


Edited by gowebber, 31 August 2019 - 16:36.


#4999 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 08:05

$15M is virtually negligible in F1 terms, especially when the figure may be spread over several years.  It shouldn't even need to be an either or scenario for that decision.  The only link I'd place to Ricciardo is that the figures they allegedly paid him were supposed to show intent, which makes it all the more strange that they would show such ambition in the driver market but none on the technical side.    And if that's the true cost then I find the decision unfathomable.

 

I thought VTT is around $60m.

 

Spread over three years, it is only $20m per year (similar to Ricciardo salary) which is not too bad at all really.


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 01 September 2019 - 08:05.


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#5000 shure

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 08:10

I thought VTT is around $60m.

 

Spread over three years, it is only $20m per year (similar to Ricciardo salary) which is not too bad at all really.

You may be right.  I saw $15M quoted somewhere which I admit I felt was a bit low, but just took the source at face value.