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Renault Technical Thread (R.S.19)


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#5051 goldenboy

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:25

Very fortunate mclaren were nowhere today while they were so strong (and a bit lucky). I'm happy for the team and that it's less likely to be an embarrassment against mclaren now.

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#5052 Reddington

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:32

Great result! They finally capitalized on their potential on a track well suited to them and got the maximum out of it. Well deserved.



#5053 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:34

Great result! They finally capitalized on their potential on a track well suited to them and got the maximum out of it. Well deserved.

 

Could it be said the RS19 is a gem and an excellent F1 car after all?  :D



#5054 Alburaq

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:40

These performances are logical on this track where the tempratures were quite reasonable and on a circuit that is even more appropriate for the RS.19 than Spa, thanks to the predominance of straight lines and slow turns, two areas where the car is good... and for once, there were no strategical/mechanical/pitsop/racing mishaps to prevent the team from turning the performances into points.
 
Many peole say "this car is good on low downforce tracks", which is not wrong, but it's not bad on medium and high DF tracks IMO. It obviously likes straight lines but it's good/decent on most types of turns. Its real enemy is the very high track temps IMO. If we had lower tempratures in Austria, Germany and even in the straightlinesless Hungary (40°, for example, instead of 55+), the car would have performed much better IMO... 

Edited by Alburaq, 08 September 2019 - 18:00.


#5055 ExEd

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 18:07

Great result! They finally capitalized on their potential on a track well suited to them and got the maximum out of it. Well deserved.

 

Im laughing so hard now  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:

And you know why ! 



#5056 GreenMachine

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 21:39

Yes, a good result, a great points haul, and importantly, a big gain towards knocking off the Maccas in 4th.  About bloody time.

 

We all feel some relief, but let's not forget that this sort of result is supposed to be the norm.  So we need a lot more of these, and time is now running out.



#5057 Reddington

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 02:17

Im laughing so hard now :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
And you know why !

Pretty factual, right?

#5058 Gambelli

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 07:23

 

These performances are logical on this track where the tempratures were quite reasonable and on a circuit that is even more appropriate for the RS.19 than Spa, thanks to the predominance of straight lines and slow turns, two areas where the car is good... and for once, there were no strategical/mechanical/pitsop/racing mishaps to prevent the team from turning the performances into points.
 
Many peole say "this car is good on low downforce tracks", which is not wrong, but it's not bad on medium and high DF tracks IMO. It obviously likes straight lines but it's good/decent on most types of turns. Its real enemy is the very high track temps IMO. If we had lower tempratures in Austria, Germany and even in the straightlinesless Hungary (40°, for example, instead of 55+), the car would have performed much better IMO... 

 

 

I reckon this is a pretty decent summary of the situation.  if you look at the types of tracks Renault has been fastest on, or more relevant, Dan has headed the midfield in Qualy, they vary considerably, with the one thing that sticks out is lack of really high temperatures.  To me, Silverstone and Spa were really good signs at least, but still, as always, their lack of understanding of the chassis is the biggest concern.

 

Lets see Singapore, night time so lower track temps..... it should suit the car, and Dan is pretty decent there..... another P6/P7 would be very handy....


Edited by Gambelli, 09 September 2019 - 09:40.


#5059 ExEd

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 15:40

Pretty factual, right?


Reminds me the finalist kisses and best wishes to the winner on some tv beauty contest .
Sour grapes all over 😎

Just wondering why congratulate them at all .

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#5060 Alburaq

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 18:54

RENAULT WITH 22 POINTS IN MONZA
Champagne only at podium
 
Renault had already been written off before the summer break. In Monza, the factory team celebrated the resurrection with its best result of the season. Now even the desired place 4 is possible again. If the aerodynamicists succeed in the breakthrough.
4th place in the constructors' championship is compulsory. Renault seemed miles away before the summer break. The French national team was only sixth, behind McLaren, behind Toro Rosso. McLaren had more than twice as many points on the account at the time.
 
At an intermediate level of 39:82, even the optimists in the team doubted whether the customer team could be caught at all. The racing teams from place 4 remains only what the top three teams leave. And that's 13 counts in the worst case.
 
In Monza Renault has picked up 22 points. The gap to McLaren has shrunk to 65:83. And Renault is at least back in fifth place. The French manufacturer does not want to endure the shame of being beaten by the B team of his former chassis partner.
 
And as a work you are better off your client, if you want to convince the board in Paris. He has Renault set a guardian to the side. Philippe Sinault sees everything, hears everything, notes everything. The head office wants to know why the results do not meet the targets.
 
Lonely race in midfield
After Spa and Monza, the boss of the Signature Formula 3 team was able to report that Renault was not that far from the top teams of the lap times. In Monza, Daniel Ricciardo missed 0.532 seconds on the best time of training. And he finished 45.5 seconds behind the winner. At the Hungaroring both Renault were still outclassed.
 
The Renault R.S.19 has similar strengths and weaknesses as the Ferrari, although the two cars are totally different. "With our low-drift aerodynamics package, our vehicle balance problem is weaker," says Team Principal Cyril Abiteboul. As a result, keep the tires. Nico Hülkenberg and Daniel Ricciardo were among the last riders in rounds 29 and 30 to wind down their tire changes.
 
The two drove a lonely race. There was enough air forward and back. After a good start from Hülkenberg the team-internal duel went to the Australian rivals in the end. "In the first stint, he obviously felt more comfortable with a lot of fuel in the tank. Since I had to fight with problems, "Hülkenberg analyzed the defeat.
 
The Rhinelander has also been visited by Alexander Albon in the last six rounds. But the Red Bull pilots he defended to the finish, which is also a new quality. Red Bull Honda had no chance on the straights against the yellow-black cars. "The Renault were on the straights, the second-strongest cars after the Ferrari," marveled at Mercedes.
 
Abiteboul pointed out that small differences can have a big impact. "In Monza we had the privilege that has helped McLaren to have so many strong races. If you're at the top in midfield, you'll have the freedom to race like the front runner and race a whole different race like your pursuers in the bunch. You can organize your tires much better and actually look better than you are. "At the Renault Camp in the evening, big celebrations were abandoned. "Champagne will not be available until we are on the podium."
 
Even guilty of bad luck
Actually, Renault would have had to clear points diligently in Spa Despite starting spot penalties Ricciardo and Hulkenberg started from places 10 and 12. But after a turn the dream was over. Ricciardo received a goal in La Source, which cost him half a second per round. Hülkenberg lost many positions because he had to dodge.
 
There was more in it than 8th place and four championship points. Nevertheless, Abiteboul does not want to talk about bad luck: "We have to face this bad luck ourselves. Without the starting penalty we would have started right in the middle of the pack. Statistics show that you are almost automatically involved in a crash. "
 
Monza also took the team boss as an opportunity to point out the weaknesses of the factory team: "We must not be blinded by Spa and Monza. The two tracks fit our car. In Monza we finally took our chance. But in just two weeks in Singapore the exactly opposite challenge awaits. We now have to do everything to eliminate our weaknesses on other track layouts. "
 
Renault will finalize the development program for the R.S.19 in Singapore with a smaller Aero package and in Suzuka with a major modification. According to Abiteboul, a step in the right direction, "but not like day and night".
 
You can already be proud of the engine in Viry-Chatillon. The C-Spec version saddled again just under 10 hp on it. They come exclusively from the internal combustion engine, a bit at the expense of recuperation by the MGU-H. This reduces the exhaust back pressure and costs less power.
 
It was also the reason why Renault went to Spa once again with the old engines. On the long round in Spa, you can only boast over the entire round, if the MGU-H helps a lot.
 
 
When we see our level of performance in Montreal (fourth fastest time of Daniel Ricciardo qualifying Ed.) In Spa, and Monza, there can not be any criticism on the subject (engine). We remain criticizable on the subject of reliability. This will be the appointment of next year, already announces the French.
 
The work on the power of the V6 Turbo Hybrid was of unprecedented scale and duration. "In Viry, there has been a huge transformation, a virtuous circle dynamic that has been initiated with very talented people who join us almost every week at the moment.
 
It's a dynamic that has taken time, we do not realize the effects of inertia that there is in our sport, continues Cyril Abiteboul. There is a pressure of short term result but the reality is that we started the reorganization of Viry in 2016, three years later we have a motor at the level.
 
Now remains to correct the defects of the yellow and black chassis. "That's what needs to be done now, I'm quite conscious of it. We would already like to be at that level but it will take a little more time because the inertia is a little longer on this side. "
 
But why Renault came to the fore in Spa-Francorchamps (Belgium) and Monza? "The answer is power and drag. We have an engine that is powerful, I have no doubt about it. We have exceeded 1000 horses in the race since several Grands Prix. We know that some are skeptical, make jokes about it, even recognizes the boss.
 
I refer them to curves, measurements, GPS data. That's the reality, the kilowatts, they are there. We can not always exploit them as we would like because of the risks of using the engine.
 
To be perfectly honest, we pushed a little this weekend, especially with Nico to defend Albon. It may be necessary to be a little more vigilant over the coming weeks. And then there is drag. We have a car that is extremely strong in slow turns, it generates little drag. That allows us to have those kinds of results. "
 
In the Constructors' Championship, Renault is back in the game for fourth place in the Constructors, 18 points behind McLaren.
 
 

 

 


Edited by Alburaq, 10 September 2019 - 19:01.


#5061 Amz964

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 19:49

Nice little read on the above. Remember Prost and Hulk mentioning some upgrades in Singapore but looks like hopefully a big update in Japan just hope it dosent turn out to be a France 2.0. Glad to see they are still developing at least.

Wonder if the team except for Singapore at least will just run less wing as it seems to make the car more competitive which is very weird indeed although it worked at Spa and Silverstone.

#5062 GreenMachine

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 20:43

Over 1000hp in the race!  Really :stoned:

 

I think that says everything that needs to be said about this ... report.

 

Maybe I should add the bit about the leopard not changing his spots ...



#5063 Gambelli

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 22:06

Over 1000hp in the race!  Really :stoned:

 

I think that says everything that needs to be said about this ... report.

 

Maybe I should add the bit about the leopard not changing his spots ...

 

Strange they've bought that up yet again.  Everyone can see the engine is an improvement, why not just shut up and let the speed traps do the talking, because no one believes their 1000hp claim and they just look silly, hell, even if it is true, no one believes them so just pipe down about it.....



#5064 Reddington

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 00:45

Reminds me the finalist kisses and best wishes to the winner on some tv beauty contest .
Sour grapes all over 😎

Just wondering why congratulate them at all .


Because I am genuinely happy to see Dan and Hulk finally being able to get a good result. It’s the team that annoys me because of false promises over the years, for not addressing the real problems in the team. But I like both drivers. I always held Dan and Hulk in high regard. So it was great seeing them get a good result last Sunday.

Besides, why is it sour to be factual? My views about Renault and how they choose to run their team are well known. And up to now I still consider my views factual. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t wish them well. If they decide to finally address the things that are the root causes to their problems, I will be cheering them on in full force. Until then, I will remain critical.

It’s as simple as that.

#5065 ExEd

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 13:46

Because I am genuinely happy to see Dan and Hulk finally being able to get a good result. It’s the team that annoys me because of false promises over the years, for not addressing the real problems in the team. But I like both drivers. I always held Dan and Hulk in high regard. So it was great seeing them get a good result last Sunday.

Besides, why is it sour to be factual? My views about Renault and how they choose to run their team are well known. And up to now I still consider my views factual. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t wish them well. If they decide to finally address the things that are the root causes to their problems, I will be cheering them on in full force. Until then, I will remain critical.

It’s as simple as that.


It’s totally cool to be critical and I have been with them ( and Honda ) too . It’s just that if you genuinely want to congratulate someone , you don’t hide your digs at them with it.
They had a great weekend finally and you couldn’t even give them that.

As an example , one could say , congrats to Max and his Honda for the wins , now that we are leaving behind the power tracks they can start aiming for podiums or a win once again.
Doesn’t sound much genuine does it?

Anyway not much of an issue there ,it’s just that the behavior of a part of the forum after a good weekend for Renault is noticeable and thought I could share my views. That’s all

#5066 Reddington

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 14:20

It’s totally cool to be critical and I have been with them ( and Honda ) too . It’s just that if you genuinely want to congratulate someone , you don’t hide your digs at them with it.
They had a great weekend finally and you couldn’t even give them that.

As an example , one could say , congrats to Max and his Honda for the wins , now that we are leaving behind the power tracks they can start aiming for podiums or a win once again.
Doesn’t sound much genuine does it?

Anyway not much of an issue there ,it’s just that the behavior of a part of the forum after a good weekend for Renault is noticeable and thought I could share my views. That’s all

I don’t think we have too much of an issue either. Actually, your remark about Max for the power tracks would be totally fine with me as well.

My remark wasn’t so much a dig, just a remark that it was nice to see they got it right this weekend. Because fact is that they didn’t before, so witnessing a trouble free weekend is good to see, but that doesn’t mean it negates their previous track record. I still think that is fair and factual.

Look, at this moment Max is the one I am rooting for most. But I am the first to say he had two foolish starts in a row for example. You would be able to see my remarks in the other thread.

Being critical about stuff, regardless if it’s about a team or driver one supports or not, is what I thought we are here for. Personally I dislike fanboy-ism. Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying at all you do so. But this forum has a fair share of those, and that’s ok, but I am not someone who will only rave about the teams and drivers I like. And in my book, discussing stuff that wasn’t particularly great is just as much part of it as praising. No sour grapes there whatsoever.

We should all be free to write what we want here. But I don’t think I need to refrain from stating things as I see them.

In this case: it was nice to see them finally getting it right. You can read that as a negative, or as a positive. It’s all in the eye of the beholder. And sure, I am very critical about the Renault management, but I am as well as Max does stupid stuff I thought he left behind him, or if Honda has start and/or mapping issues. Criticism works both ways.

Edited by Reddington, 11 September 2019 - 14:23.


#5067 goldenboy

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 19:45

Congrats to them for finally maximising on a track that suits them is a fair enough comment.

#5068 kumo7

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 22:38

Yup this up-turn performance was very surprising.

Especially because there was this statement from the team that it consider now as take it or leave it situation in advance to the race.



#5069 gowebber

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 10:50

The new 18" 2021 wheels on the Renault

 

https://twitter.com/...044833034252288


Edited by gowebber, 12 September 2019 - 11:18.


#5070 Ivanhoe

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 11:39

That looks great really like those bigger rims. Good to see they’re not closed like on the 2021 car images.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 12 September 2019 - 13:19.


#5071 Gambelli

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 12:56

That looks great really like those bigger time. Good to see they’re not closed like on the 2021 car images.

Agreed, looks great!!!



#5072 Alburaq

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 15:10

Yeah Singapour suits this car on the paper, if the weather is not too hot, IMO: there is plenty of low speed turns, a lot of "traction events" and not many "long duration turns" as Hulkenberg would say. It's bumpy but AFAIK the RS.19 has no big problem with that. Sadly the straightlines look short. Anyways it will be a good test... the RS.19A was nowhere in Singapre 2018 though, 2.5s away from pole...  :drunk:

 

I dont think the car is that weak regarding DF. Yes it obviously has far less DF than the top3, but compared to our competitors, only Mclaren might have more DF in 'normal' conditions (with a better DF/drag ratio according to RIC*). But maybe the MCL is not as good on the slow stuff.

Needless to say the car also needs updates to beat them. The competitors do not stand still, they're even more impressive and look more ambitions in that regard. 

Based on the developpement rate, RP looks like the worksteam, or a top team, while Renault looks like HRT.

 

Regardind DF, Ric lately said they carried relatively a lot of wing in Spa (that didnt hurt the car's top speed visibly https://i87.servimg....26/edtyia10.jpg) and that's one of the reasons he was confident coming to Monza.

 

*But in fact, this year, I think they [Renault] have come a long way and we just need to advance the car. The most important in F1 is the aero, downforce. Of course, there are other things about the car that are not perfect, like suspensions, but [the focus] is on the aero and DF, and being effective, because one can have a lot more DF but be really slow in a straight line and it does not make any sense: you have to work on efficiency. It is in this area that McLaren has done a great job this year. They are able to produce the same DF with less drag, so they can keep a little more speed in a straight line and roll with more DF."

https://fr.motorspor...enault/4532426/


Edited by Alburaq, 12 September 2019 - 15:38.


#5073 Gambelli

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 20:33

Yeah I too think they'll be fine at Singapore, Dan is driving well at the moment too.  He has qualified best of the rest more often than not lately but it hasn't worked out in races....



#5074 Reddington

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 04:41

That looks great really like those bigger rims. Good to see they’re not closed like on the 2021 car images.


They will be though. That’s apparently something that has been set in stone according to Ross.

#5075 Talisman

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 11:14

They will be though. That’s apparently something that has been set in stone according to Ross.


Why? Top speeds will soar as drag drops. Sounds counterintuitive from a safety point of view.

#5076 Ivanhoe

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 11:18

Let’s hope they don’t close them in order to display information or graphics.

#5077 Reddington

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 11:29

Why? Top speeds will soar as drag drops. Sounds counterintuitive from a safety point of view.

Probably something to reduce dirty air? And it will be another equalizer then as well.

#5078 ARTGP

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 12:31

Why? Top speeds will soar as drag drops. Sounds counterintuitive from a safety point of view.

 

If top speed is a problem, they can cut the maximum allowable fuel flow rate, simple as that. Anything that reduces dirty air and enables close following is welcome.



#5079 Talisman

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 14:32

If top speed is a problem, they can cut the maximum allowable fuel flow rate, simple as that. Anything that reduces dirty air and enables close following is welcome.

 

This is taking the discussion way off topic given we should be discussing Renault, but managing airflow off exposed tyres has a massive influence on current aerodynamics.  Having covered tyres will change F1 in ways I don't think we can predict.  Certainly airflow around the body can be made more efficient and more consistent as well as removing the biggest single cause of drag on a car so that both straightline and corner speed are significantly improved.  Reducing fuel flow rate is not likely to compensate for that.

 

I would have thought such a decision would be subject to a significant discussion given the massive impact it would have on the sport.



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#5080 Reddington

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 14:51

This is taking the discussion way off topic given we should be discussing Renault, but managing airflow off exposed tyres has a massive influence on current aerodynamics. Having covered tyres will change F1 in ways I don't think we can predict. Certainly airflow around the body can be made more efficient and more consistent as well as removing the biggest single cause of drag on a car so that both straightline and corner speed are significantly improved. Reducing fuel flow rate is not likely to compensate for that.

I would have thought such a decision would be subject to a significant discussion given the massive impact it would have on the sport.

Well they ran them before. May have been a different design and concept, where the cover remained static, but in 2009 virtually everyone ran them didn’t they?

#5081 Talisman

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 16:06

Well they ran them before. May have been a different design and concept, where the cover remained static, but in 2009 virtually everyone ran them didn’t they?

 

Ahh you mean the aerodynamic hubcaps.  I thought you meant the tyres had covers.  Sorry.



#5082 Alburaq

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 11:08

Actually the Marina suits the 2019 Renault PU even less than the Hungaroring  :p 
Marina:
Longest straight 832m/0.517 miles, on the approach to Turn Seven (longest of the season: Baku, 2.1km/1.305 miles)
Full throttle 47 per cent (highest of the season: Monza, 75 per cent). The longest period of uninterrupted full throttle is just 9s

Hungary:
Longest straight 908m/0.564 miles 
Full throttle 55 per cent

 

https://www.mclaren....-circuit-stats/


Edited by Alburaq, 14 September 2019 - 11:35.


#5083 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 16:21

Actually the Marina suits the 2019 Renault PU even less than the Hungaroring  :p

 

Well the stopwatch will tell the story.  Let's see if the superb Renault F1 team pace is there.  :eek:   :up:

 

The RS19 was hooked up well in Monza, will it be blitzing the bends as well in Marina Bay?  :D


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 14 September 2019 - 16:25.