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Renault Technical Thread (R.S.19)


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#151 rootten

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:38

Renault switched resources to 2019 pretty ealery when they were established as clear 4th best team.

 

Maybe they had diffrent plans at the beggining of the season, but I think they figured out that they should hold on to the 4th position without the need to develop the car any further

 

They were bringing updates but those were aimed at 2019



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#152 pryanjack

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:46

That new Haas looks like a Lotus Renault, hopefully the RS19 will be a little more original



#153 ixnay

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 12:35

That new Haas looks like a Lotus Renault, hopefully the RS19 will be a little more original

I think Renault have been one of the best with liveries the past few years. If you never got to see the RS.16 in person I hope you do get to one day. The honeycombing micro patter and the almost chroming yellow in parts looked amazing. It never translated like that on TV. It's my favourite in person livery. The Sauber Alfa Romeo red this year was also stunning in person.

#154 Thatfastguy

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 12:47

Red Bull payed sick money for a subpar product and decided to move on. Both parties are probably better off now. 


Edited by Thatfastguy, 07 February 2019 - 12:49.


#155 BCM

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 12:56

I'll be interested in seeing how Ghosn being Gone affects Renault's F1 plans over the next few years. He was being tight fisted money wise. Either they need to invest at the same scale as the big 3 or they may as well forget it.

 

An enforceable cost cap will never come. It's like believing in unicorns and fairies.



#156 pryanjack

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 21:01

I suspect they will continue to be pragmatic, but that does not mean they can't build a winning car. Renault were not the biggest spenders back in 2005/6 either.



#157 GiorgioF1

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 21:16

I suspect they will continue to be pragmatic, but that does not mean they can't build a winning car. Renault were not the biggest spenders back in 2005/6 either.

 

Yeah the mass damper helped them with that. They also had insane electronics plus their traction and launch control. They cant do these magic tricks now though. Not to mention no Briatore and Alonso. There will be no winning Renaults if they slip behind Honda this year. If they cant make a great pu they would need to outdo Mercedes, Ferraris and especially Red Bulls in the chassis department to start winning races. And that would mean spending a lot more money. I'm not holding my breath.



#158 rootten

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 23:42

Honda first needs to catch up with Renault  :wave:



#159 dn12005

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 13:06

Sounds of life - this time - reverberating out of Enstone

 

https://twitter.com/...819226530463745


Edited by dn12005, 08 February 2019 - 13:14.


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#160 Nathan

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 13:15

I suspect they will continue to be pragmatic, but that does not mean they can't build a winning car. Renault were not the biggest spenders back in 2005/6 either.

 

This is a misconception.  When you look at Companies House figures during those years Renault as a chassis maker spent more per season than McLaren from 2005 to 2009.  During that period they were outspent by another British team (Honda) just once.



#161 A3

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 13:19

Sounds of life - this time - reverberating out of Enstone

 

https://twitter.com/...819226530463745

 

ouch. :lol:

952WFuG.png



#162 rootten

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 14:14

just 4 days



#163 ernestomodena

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 14:29

Sounds of life - this time - reverberating out of Enstone

 

https://twitter.com/...819226530463745

 

Is it me or does it not sound like an engine with a broken exhaust.



#164 Clatter

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 20:17

This is a misconception.  When you look at Companies House figures during those years Renault as a chassis maker spent more per season than McLaren from 2005 to 2009.  During that period they were outspent by another British team (Honda) just once.

 


Honda? British?

#165 Nathan

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 20:41

Well the team was based in Britain  :cat:



#166 Alburaq

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 11:01

just 4 days

 

AMuS says that, like Haas and other teams, we wont see the new car in flesh in that launch, juste the new livery... (like Haas this year and Renault last year? We had a repainted RS.17 while the new RS.18 was a 3d render and no real launch)

AFAIR, all the cars that have been launched in Enstone (with a real launch where the whole team was present around the car etc) were repainted old cars.

E20 was a modified R31, E21 was a disguised E20...

Only the RS.17 had a proper launch (First Enstone-made car to get a real presentation since... 2011?)


Edited by Alburaq, 09 February 2019 - 11:29.


#167 eREr

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 13:12

Yeah well I have to choose between what you say and what Abiteboul siad. It's a tough one. I'm inclined to believe Abiteboul so that should tell you enough.

Renault didn't want the risk of penalties and they knew the engine ran crappy on their own fuel. And to Renault's own surprise the c spec did pretty well in the Red Bull.

If the reason Renault themselves didn't want the C spec was that they didn't want to change their car, why design the c spec that way anyway? I will not believe Renault designed the C-spec just for Red Bull.


It is not me or Abiteboul. It is about Abiteboul. Next time, when Abiteboul states something, you will accept it and you will not question him. Otherwise you are the clown and not Abiteboul.

No, you didn't understand that situation. Renault had to choose between these 2:
- modify heavily the car instead of developing 2019 car and spend precious time on the dyno to optimize spec c with BP instead of testing the 2019 PU when it would bring 2-3 tenths and you are 1.5-2s behind the top3.

- forget spec c as 4-5th place in WCC is guaranteed and use all the resources on 2019 car and PU.

Which option would be your one? The aim is not to beat Haas, RP, Alfa, but to beat everybody asap.

#168 Ivanhoe

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 13:17

You’re conveniently forgetting that they also have to supply 2 customers who are entitled to a fully dedicated supplier for the full 2018 season and not a supplier who focusses on 2019 at 2/3 of the season because it fits their own purposes. That’s what they pay them for, right?

Edited by Ivanhoe, 09 February 2019 - 13:19.


#169 eREr

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 13:20

AMuS says that, like Haas and other teams, we wont see the new car in flesh in that launch, juste the new livery... (like Haas this year and Renault last year? We had a repainted RS.17 while the new RS.18 was a 3d render and no real launch)
AFAIR, all the cars that have been launched in Enstone (with a real launch where the whole team was present around the car etc) were repainted old cars.
E20 was a modified R31, E21 was a disguised E20...
Only the RS.17 had a proper launch (First Enstone-made car to get a real presentation since... 2011?)


Yeah, there is big chance to see again the RS18 with 2019 spec front wing. Everything else would be a nice surprise.

#170 eREr

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 13:23

You’re conveniently forgetting that they also have to supply 2 customers who are entitled to a fully dedicated supplier for the full 2018 season and not a supplier who focusses on 2019 at 2/3 of the season because it fits their own purposes. That’s what they pay them for, right?


You are wrong. RB got the spec c and Mclaren chose not to use it similarly to Renault.

#171 ExEd

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 13:46

You’re conveniently forgetting that they also have to supply 2 customers who are entitled to a fully dedicated supplier for the full 2018 season and not a supplier who focusses on 2019 at 2/3 of the season because it fits their own purposes. That’s what they pay them for, right?

 

Not necessarly. They pay for the engines and possible a series of other minor support clauses that would be in their contract of agreements.

Everything else like the frequency of the upgrades and quality of their customer support is a Renaults decision.

Should they decide to to lower the quality of service to their customers in order to get better products for next season, is up to them. 

 

Although I agree, and we all know it,the results where not up to expected levels, we can't argue their choice of how they will navigate their company. 

If their customers won't like it to the point they think is best to leave the table, it is a free market, and are free to move elsewhere.

One of them actually did and I think it worked well for both parties if you ask me. 

 

To be honest I'm not defending Renault, I think their results of upgrading within the season were mediocre at best and not nearly enough to their competition  but I don't like this witch hunt from RB and Mclaren (to Honda).

Less tears, more work.

Find the best possible options for the teams. If there is none, make your own engines...


Edited by ExEd, 09 February 2019 - 13:57.


#172 Requiem84

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 16:40

It is not me or Abiteboul. It is about Abiteboul. Next time, when Abiteboul states something, you will accept it and you will not question him. Otherwise you are the clown and not Abiteboul.

No, you didn't understand that situation. Renault had to choose between these 2:
- modify heavily the car instead of developing 2019 car and spend precious time on the dyno to optimize spec c with BP instead of testing the 2019 PU when it would bring 2-3 tenths and you are 1.5-2s behind the top3.

- forget spec c as 4-5th place in WCC is guaranteed and use all the resources on 2019 car and PU.

Which option would be your one? The aim is not to beat Haas, RP, Alfa, but to beat everybody asap.


You make it sound like Renault were surprised that they had to modify the car for C spec.

That is obviously not true. Engines are on testbenches months before they are signed off. They knew they had to adapt the engine problaby 3-4 months before C spec was finalised.

#173 DogEarred

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 17:48

They have had more time than last year to refine the cooling and engine integration.

The monocoque is 2kg lighter, even though longer.

Initial front wing aero targets have just about been met, in the wind tunnel.

Good but does not guarantee anything.

#174 FLB

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 17:54

Renault is the team that I expect the most to gain. They can only go upwards. The arrival of Marcin Budkowski and Daniel Ricciardo can only help, plus possibly the departure of Carlos Ghosn can free up budget a little bit (Ghosn was known as Le cost killer).



#175 DogEarred

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 17:56

Yes it took a Ghosn a great deal to be persuaded.

#176 Requiem84

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 17:56

They have had more time than last year to refine the cooling and engine integration.

The monocoque is 2kg lighter, even though longer.

Initial front wing aero targets have just about been met, in the wind tunnel.

Good but does not guarantee anything.


Sounds good. But eh, source?

#177 DogEarred

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 18:48

A bloke called Carlos told me.

But he's Ghosn now.



#178 gowebber

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 00:30

The Inside Lines' Renault F1 2019 preview

 


Edited by gowebber, 10 February 2019 - 00:34.


#179 danstheman

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 09:48

Interesting point about the unstable rear end (last year) possibly suiting Hulkenberg's driving style more



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#180 Laster

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 10:49

Yeah the first I heard of that unstable rear end and it possibly suiting Hulk was in this - https://www.motorspo...ber-one-renault

#181 A3

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 11:03

Yeah the first I heard of that unstable rear end and it possibly suiting Hulk was in this - https://www.motorspo...ber-one-renault


Interesting read, thanks. :up:

#182 restless

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 11:12

It is not me or Abiteboul. It is about Abiteboul. Next time, when Abiteboul states something, you will accept it and you will not question him. Otherwise you are the clown and not Abiteboul.

No, you didn't understand that situation. Renault had to choose between these 2:
- modify heavily the car instead of developing 2019 car and spend precious time on the dyno to optimize spec c with BP instead of testing the 2019 PU when it would bring 2-3 tenths and you are 1.5-2s behind the top3.

- forget spec c as 4-5th place in WCC is guaranteed and use all the resources on 2019 car and PU.

Which option would be your one? The aim is not to beat Haas, RP, Alfa, but to beat everybody asap.

Then why did they built spec C at all?

Its millions, literally, spent on building, validating, producing spec C ...

Its either spec C didn't deliver as expected, or... we should believe that in France "Noblesse oblige"

Yea, right...

And btw, Ghosn was pro-F1 envolvement... I guess we have to wait & see, but how good or bad is 2019 may decide the faith of RenaultF1 team.



#183 Sterzo

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 11:52

And btw, Ghosn was pro-F1 envolvement...

I can't find a source about this, but I thought the 2015 repurchase of Enstone was proposed by others and Ghosn was said to be sceptical, and took quite a bit of persuading. He won't have been the only one: any board of directors consists of people with different opinions and different levels of influence. That's why any change potentially puts a manufacturer's involvement at risk.



#184 DogEarred

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 12:38

Yeah the first I heard of that unstable rear end and it possibly suiting Hulk was in this - https://www.motorspo...ber-one-renault



Deficiencies in the rear suspension became more understood as the season went on and were largely responsible for the team's inconsistent performance.

You may assume they will have been addressed in the latest design.

#185 Neno

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 14:28

I really hope we get new car tommorow instead paper launch with modified last year car. So sick of this "tradition". That's one thing which needs to go away in F1. If you dont have new car ready, just dont f announce it or launch it.



#186 Dratini

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 14:34

I really hope we get new car tommorow instead paper launch with modified last year car. So sick of this "tradition". That's one thing which needs to go away in F1. If you dont have new car ready, just dont f announce it or launch it.

In an ideal world we'd just have all the cars launched at pre-season testing, but of course there is value to be had in having all eyes on you for one arbitrary day in the weeks leading up.



#187 Thatfastguy

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 14:40

I really hope we get new car tommorow instead paper launch with modified last year car. So sick of this "tradition". That's one thing which needs to go away in F1. If you dont have new car ready, just dont f announce it or launch it.

 

Agreed. If you do a launch, reveal the actual car. Not the 2018 car with the 2019 livery. That is so incredibly lame. Either push back the launch (to testing day 1) or don't do one at all. 



#188 DogEarred

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 14:41

Whatever gets 'launched', new parts will still be being fitted in the pit lane in Barcelona & during the tests.

 

It's always been a frantic time for finalizing parts & getting them into production at this time of year.

 

The same applies for all teams.

 

In the past, plenty of cars have been presented with fake, albeit realistic parts.

 

e.g. STR ran on steel front wishbones for a good part of testing last year.



#189 Clatter

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 14:42

I really hope we get new car tommorow instead paper launch with modified last year car. So sick of this "tradition". That's one thing which needs to go away in F1. If you dont have new car ready, just dont f announce it or launch it.

 


Why would you expect the teams to give away any details of their new car until they absolutely have to?

#190 Knowlesy

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 14:47

Agreed. If you do a launch, reveal the actual car. Not the 2018 car with the 2019 livery. That is so incredibly lame. Either push back the launch (to testing day 1) or don't do one at all.


Why? Just to please a handful of people on the internet?

#191 Neno

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 15:03

Why? Just to please a handful of people on the internet?

Because it's fake and doesnt have any purpose whatsoever. I'd rather wait to see actual car even if I need wait week longer to hit a track. Sick of frankenstein assembled cars or CGI'd cars which looks nothing like real car when it hits a track.  Like I said I dont mind waiting. 


Edited by Neno, 11 February 2019 - 15:03.


#192 Clatter

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 15:05

Because it's fake and doesnt have any purpose whatsoever. I'd rather wait to see actual car even if I need wait week longer to hit a track. Sick of frankenstein assembled cars or CGI'd cars which looks nothing like real car when it hits a track.  Like I said I dont mind waiting. 

 


Then wait for the real car to appear in testing and just ignore the other stuff.

#193 Neno

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 15:13

Then wait for the real car to appear in testing and just ignore the other stuff.

Problem is people will try analyze it, pick it apart, make 100 articles and they will say Renault did not great job how it looks similar to RS18. When we all  know it's whole brand new car beside steering wheel. It just leads to bad PR campagin. 

 

In general it's a huge waste of time, it's a waste of people in factory time assembling some piece of crap, it's a waste of reporter time writing article about fake car later and it's a waste of people in community like us discussing it. Specially when I know I'll need repeat myself tommorow it's a f frankenstein car. Do you get me finally now? It doesnt serve any purpose whatsoever. 



#194 Requiem84

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 15:36

Problem is people will try analyze it, pick it apart, make 100 articles and they will say Renault did not great job how it looks similar to RS18. When we all  know it's whole brand new car beside steering wheel. It just leads to bad PR campagin. 

 

In general it's a huge waste of time, it's a waste of people in factory time assembling some piece of crap, it's a waste of reporter time writing article about fake car later and it's a waste of people in community like us discussing it. Specially when I know I'll need repeat myself tommorow it's a f frankenstein car. Do you get me finally now? It doesnt serve any purpose whatsoever. 

 

Let me breakdown F1 fan numbers for you:

 

Autosport.com forum fanatics who check in daily: few 100's

General newsfollowers with an average in F1: few millions

 

Those general news followers have no idea when new cars are launched, whether it is an old or new car etc.. they care for the looks, the basic information, the drivers.. the vibe that the season is starting.

 

Needless to say  that those few million people who now read about all the cars are getting enthusiastic about the start of F1 again and are slowly getting more into it. 

 

These launches are not for us. We are an incredibly small minority. We are not relevant for the total marketing exposure of F1 teams. 

 

But it seems many people here consider themselves very important. 



#195 Clatter

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 16:05

Problem is people will try analyze it, pick it apart, make 100 articles and they will say Renault did not great job how it looks similar to RS18. When we all know it's whole brand new car beside steering wheel. It just leads to bad PR campagin.

In general it's a huge waste of time, it's a waste of people in factory time assembling some piece of crap, it's a waste of reporter time writing article about fake car later and it's a waste of people in community like us discussing it. Specially when I know I'll need repeat myself tommorow it's a f frankenstein car. Do you get me finally now? It doesnt serve any purpose whatsoever.

Think your moaning about something that is easily passed over. The reveal of the livery is of value to the teams, and no doubt to the sponsers whose stickers are on the car.

#196 Alburaq

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 16:42

An early launch in the factory or a fancy place obviously brings more exposition for the sponsors and partners and give more time for the interviews and for the real work, than a launch in Barcelona test day one at 7AM in front of the garage while 5 other teams are doing the same. 

Using an old car is a bit sad but it's not a "waste of time or bad PR" if you also show the new car as a render.


Edited by Alburaq, 11 February 2019 - 16:48.


#197 Burai

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 17:19

Remember when they revealed their 2016 livery on a Formula Renault 3.5 car nailed to a giant surfboard? Good times.



#198 dn12005

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 17:58

Remember when they revealed their 2016 livery on a Formula Renault 3.5 car nailed to a giant surfboard? Good times.

 

Really?  They did this? :eek:



#199 dn12005

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 18:41

Busy beehive at Enstone:

 

https://twitter.com/...026133760905218



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#200 Burai

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 18:47

Really? They did this? :eek:


https://youtu.be/fg1kj0E93JA