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Renault Technical Thread (R.S.19)


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#3201 rootten

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 09:06

I'm very surious to see speed trap figures with this extreme low downforce setup



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#3202 SenorSjon

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 10:15

I thought I remembered reading a lot of 'we believe' and 'we think' from Cyril but not actual confirmation of what it actually was...

 

 

Exactly - the MGU-K was supposed to be ok after a hard reset was done post-race iirc?

 

Aka, they hit it with a hammer and it works again?  :rotfl:



#3203 ARTGP

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 10:58

AMuS expanded on that just a little bit-

Renault
Nico Hülkenberg can breathe easy. He does not get a starting penalty. The ailing MGU-K has survived. She could be repaired. Renault has like many teams a new rear wing on the car. It is already the fourth version. "One is coming. That's the Monza wing. The five variants should be enough to get through the season, "says Operations Manager Alan Permane.
The visible changes to the rear and front wing is still a modification to the steering. She speaks less directly now. This calms the car when turning. A first step in this direction was already effective in China. "We are going even further in this direction," reveals Hülkenberg. It's one of those modifications that can be said of: small cause, big effect.

If it's the steering geometry that they have modified, then it sounds to me like they have identified the cause of the issue with the front tire wake effecting the rear floor downforce in high speed stuff.


Edited by ARTGP, 26 April 2019 - 11:33.


#3204 ARTGP

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 11:38

Combustion engine changes for Barcelona.  Hulk will be on the third engine right?



#3205 Laster

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 11:47

Yes. Not a great sign, though after the horrendous reliability so far it’s understandable they want to introduce an new engine to improve reliability, much as Honda has here.

#3206 eREr

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 12:30

Different RWs for Hulk and Dan in FP1:

 

Hulk (old one):

D5EV72nX4AA85T6.jpg

 

Dan's (new one):

D5EV3P-XoAAovbc.jpg



#3207 eREr

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 12:33

Combustion engine changes for Barcelona.  Hulk will be on the third engine right?

 

Yes, it would be his 3rd, but maybe Barcelona and Monaco might be absolved with his current ICE. Dan's ICE has ~2.5 races in it (it will be hopefully 3.5 for by Barcelona), in Hulk's it is just 1 (and hopefully will be only 2 by Barcelona).



#3208 vee10

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 13:56

FRktG6B.jpg



#3209 SenorSjon

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 14:02

Yet no where near the top 10. Perhaps brought a too small rear wing? Great for blasting at the straight, but losing heaps of time on the twisty bit. Perhaps hoping they can keep people behind there.



#3210 Flasheart

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 14:12

Nico was held up badly on at least one of his fast laps. Not sure if the time is overly representative.

#3211 Laster

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 14:14

Lets wait to hear what they’re up to, this session has been odd not helped by FP1 being lost. I struggle to believe Hulk is legitmately well over a second slower than Dan, or that Dan is well over a second slower than the Toro Rosso. Maybe losing FP1 changed their run plans, maybe haven’t done any qualifying runs, or maybe they have and they are this slow. Got to wait to hear what they say in the debrief.

#3212 vee10

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 14:15

Dan done for the day  :eek:



#3213 Amz964

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 14:35

Haven't watched any of practice however the position does not look good at all. Judging by everyone comments the car is not looking good on the brakes. Losing FP1 looks to have hurt us however it was the same for everybody. Can only hope they can tune the car but looks to be a weekend of pain unfortunately.

Edited by Amz964, 26 April 2019 - 14:36.


#3214 vee10

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 14:41

They brakes must still think we have last years engine   :drunk:



#3215 Casey

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 14:43

It looked like Hulk lost some parts at the back of the car ?



#3216 Alburaq

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 14:44

These times are meaningless. 

The vertical fin under the sidepod lower lip has been extended a la force india and it joins the floor now.

Abiteboul just said to sky that they'll change this low df package, because it provided too little df, and go for a higher df config, à la Ferrari


Edited by Alburaq, 26 April 2019 - 14:55.


#3217 aray

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 14:47

What about turned down engines for all Renault power car i am hearing about? :well:



#3218 statman

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 15:23

Renault considers to introduce first engine upgrade already at Barcelona for reliability reasons.



#3219 Laster

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 16:42

Nico Hülkenberg, #27, R.S.19-02
Free Practice 2: P17, 1:46.717, 24 laps

Nico: “It was a shame we didn’t get as much running in as planned today, but that’s the same for all teams with the circuit damage in FP1 and a couple of red flags in FP2. The second session didn’t go well for us, and we were struggling with things like tyre warm-up, downforce level and braking stability. That made it challenging, but we’ll put our heads together overnight and find some fixes for tomorrow.”

Daniel Ricciardo, #3, R.S.19-03
Free Practice 2: P15, 1:45.483, 15 laps

Daniel: “Today was a little bit stop-start. In the second session, I had one clean lap which wasn’t too bad at the time. We had two brake lock-ups on two sets of tyres which resulted in two big flat spots. We couldn’t continue after that. We have a few things to sort out ahead of tomorrow, especially trying to get the car happier on the brakes.”

Nick Chester, Chassis Technical Director: “It was a bit of a disjointed day. We had no representative running in FP1 and then in FP2 we struggled with the car not having enough grip. We couldn’t get the tyres to work how we’d like, so we have a bit of work to do overnight. We’re probably not running enough downforce, and that’s something we will assess. Track conditions were dusty, which is why it’s been particularly hard running a low downforce setting. We don’t have too many issues with the car and we’re confident we can make things better tomorrow.”

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#3220 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 16:44

So Cyril confirms in that AMuS article that Renault have been too aggressive in the first three races and paid the price for it. He also says the issues are not only related to the MGU-K but changes are also needed to the ICE to make the package more reliable. And it appears they are needing to run with the PU’s turned down here in Baku. All sounds awfully familiar I’m afraid and it casts a big cloud over recent claims of closing the performance gap if you need to run too aggressive modes the power unit can’t handle to achieve it. Here’s hoping you have a trouble free weekend and the Barcelona upgrade fixes these niggly power unit issues once and for all, but I won’t hold my breath.

#3221 Alburaq

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 17:48

https://www.auto-mot...schan-training/



#3222 Laster

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 17:48

General feeling from both drivers and the team seems to be they miscalculated the downforce, and possibly some of the cooling, which is causing them tyre issues, with Dan suggesting others around them ran with more downforce. So expect a lot of adjustments in FP3 and them to run more wing.

#3223 rootten

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 20:51

For what its worth F1 published its performance analysis

 

image.jpg

 

Renault is loosing time on straights despite its low downforce setup. Ferrari the strongest there



#3224 gowebber

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 09:08

So apparently it was one line of code that was causing the MGU-k issue for Hulk in China. Ah the joys of programming lol

 

"“We have a very simple change in one line of code, and hopefully that will have sorted the problem we had in Shanghai,” Abiteboul told Motorsport.com. “We hope not to see any new problems at this race.

 

“Basically it’s a default mode that can be triggered. It’s an infinite loop, like sometimes on your laptop, when you see the task manager consuming 98% of the whole CPU. It’s exactly what happened, it’s an open loop and the system was trying to go through that open loop and go through a new process lap after lap, because of the default mode.

“We tried to reset it, but we just needed to do a power cycle in the garage, and it was back online. It’s not something you can do on track.”

Abiteboul said that the glitch slipped through the net because of the workload involved in rushing the new-spec MGU-K to the track after Sainz’s Melbourne failure."

 

https://www.motorspo...teboul/4376647/


Edited by gowebber, 27 April 2019 - 09:08.


#3225 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 09:17

Bugs are always in just one line of code, meaningless remark. It’s a quality control issue and a very avoidable and costly one at that.

#3226 Flasheart

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 12:13

It just shows how ridiculously complex these cars are. I saw an Indycar with the engine cover off the other day, and it was like night and day. I know the two formulae are very different, but F1 has gone way over the top I reckon. I’m not calling for a return to NA V8/10/12’s, but some sort of simplification is required.

#3227 Amz964

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 14:01

Wow what a catastrophe. The car has no pace here and we are starting to look like McLaren of 2018 now. I don't normally agree with Neno and think he can be a bit dramatic at times but I feel your pain brother! This car so far has not shown the promise it needed with the team now in its 4th season. Nick Chester and Cyril need to be let go as this is unacceptable for a team looking to snatch maybe a few podiums this year.

#3228 BCM

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 14:05

They've got more chance of bumping their arses against the moon than they have of getting a podium with this car.



#3229 ARTGP

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 14:16

What a POS...So glad I didn't get up early.



#3230 vee10

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 14:24

This is a write off this weekend. I hope there are some serious changes either personnel or procedural because this season the mistakes have been unacceptable. 



#3231 rootten

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 14:35

another disastrous result



#3232 Laster

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 14:36

Ricciardo did well, but yeah car is really far off the pace this weekend.

#3233 Fademan

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 14:57

They didn't show Ric's last lap in Q2, which were all yellow sectors... Did he make a mistake and abort, or....??

#3234 Amz964

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 14:58

They didn't show Ric's last lap in Q2, which were all yellow sectors... Did he make a mistake and abort, or....??


Not sure if he was caught up in the yellow flag with Magnussen.

#3235 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 15:04

I had you down for easily fourth fastest here considering Sainz and Hulk were overtaking Ric and Max here in the early stages of last year. Nowhere near, and once again Renault are handily beaten by a customer team. Heads will roll this season

#3236 Quickshifter

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 15:20

Been saying the car lacks raw pace and it shows in their qualifying performances. This car is not a departure from last season like Renault claim as it carries the same issues that plagued them last season. They can improve the car as they have the resources but as things stand for a manufacturer with chassis optimized around engine it looks an under cooked attempt.

#3237 statman

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 15:21

I had you down for easily fourth fastest here considering Sainz and Hulk were overtaking Ric and Max here in the early stages of last year. Nowhere near, and once again Renault are handily beaten by a customer team. Heads will roll this season

 

But you haven't heard Cyril's explanations yet

 

 ;)



#3238 BCM

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 15:34

“The car was fast enough for pole”, said the Renault team principal. “It was just one line of code. We couldn’t reset it on track but if you drove it now you’d do a 1:30 on the hards.”

Edited by BCM, 27 April 2019 - 15:35.


#3239 BuddyHolly

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 15:51

The car looks a real handful to drive, what a disappointment this is turning out to be, I had hoped they'd be deep in the top 10 this season.



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#3240 Amz964

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 16:10

I think if they can just get the car's dynamics right with the high rake the car could be ok but it seems like they don't understand how to utilize the sealing of the floor with the diffuser with the high rake in order to create efficient downforce, the other issue is also making sure the car is not losing downforce when the front wheels are turning which has compromised the RS18 and the RS19. I personally think the lower downforce they are running only compounds this issue as they cannot get heat into the tyres hence why the car is so nervous and keeps pitching on the brakes and giving the drivers no confidence as Hulk said on friday. Saying that some serious fixes and it might only need to be small need to be put in place for Barcelona otherwise I can see us "gulp" being only ahead of Williams.

Edited by Amz964, 27 April 2019 - 17:20.


#3241 danstheman

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 16:37

The car is not great but I suspect other gremlins are at play here.

 

Principally some kind of circuit characteristic they are having some unforseen trouble with they can't resolve (yet) or an issue with the tyres due to again something temperature or downforce level related. They showed too much pace in the races previously to suddenly be near the back of the grid

 

Edit: although in saying that, a car should be able to handle different circuit characteristics (low/high downforce and heavy braking etc)


Edited by danstheman, 27 April 2019 - 16:41.


#3242 gowebber

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 16:46

Hmm Dan saying they made progress today and its more to do with not being able to heat the tyres up and cooler track temps. Hopefully after a few laps during the race, slightly warmer and the track rubbers in more the RS19 will come alive and show a bit more pace. Time will tell.

 

https://www.formula1..._making_Q3.html


Edited by gowebber, 27 April 2019 - 17:27.


#3243 pryanjack

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 17:13

🙏 this is gonna be one of those races where the track will come to them and others will screw up ...

#3244 Laster

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 17:47

Been saying the car lacks raw pace and it shows in their qualifying performances. This car is not a departure from last season like Renault claim as it carries the same issues that plagued them last season. They can improve the car as they have the resources but as things stand for a manufacturer with chassis optimized around engine it looks an under cooked attempt.

It doesn’t lack for raw pace as evidenced by all the previous three races, they’ve always been fighting at the front of the midfield with only Australia them not leading it. This is the first time they actually looked slow. As far as being at the front of the midfield the car seems perfectly capable of doing that so long as they sort out the reliability. Baku is a weird circuit and clearly their car can’t get the tyres working here.

#3245 rootten

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 13:54

what was that?



#3246 Amz964

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 13:58

Danny Ric should have got 9th before his brain fade with Kvyat. His pace before his retirement wasn't too bad but still not where we should be and the weekend has been a disaster. Hulk was nowhere but obvious he wasn't happy with the car at all.

We just got to hope Barcelona will be better.

Edited by Amz964, 28 April 2019 - 13:58.


#3247 Darnswim

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 14:01

That was horrible. Every race I expect Renault to do a bit better than the previous one, and every race they manage to do worse... After all the promises that we would be up there fighting, we are abysmal at some tracks and bang average at the others.



#3248 Laster

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 14:02

Only been abysmal at Baku. The rest Renault are have been quick enough to lead the midfield with only their reliability getting in the way.

#3249 eREr

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 14:11

Only been abysmal at Baku. The rest Renault are have been quick enough to lead the midfield with only their reliability getting in the way.

 

Actually Dan was on the pace of Perez and Mclarens. After the terrible Friday and Saturday his race pace on mediums was a nice surprise. Until his brainfade... Hulk's car/setup was deadslow here. A weekend to forget.



#3250 goldenboy

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 14:13

Actually Dan was on the pace of Perez and Mclarens. After the terrible Friday and Saturday his race pace on mediums was a nice surprise. Until his brainfade... Hulk's car/setup was deadslow here. A weekend to forget.

It took quite some time for his pace to match them though.