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Renault Technical Thread (R.S.19)


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#3251 SenorSjon

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 14:17

Not really:

http://en.mclarenf-1...r2=Sergio Perez

 

Lost 16 seconds on the softs, pitted the same lap and had similar pace the rest of the race. Seeing how Perez could better his pace after the VSC, I doubt the Renault could do that.



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#3252 eREr

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 15:08

Not really:

http://en.mclarenf-1...r2=Sergio Perez

 

Lost 16 seconds on the softs, pitted the same lap and had similar pace the rest of the race. Seeing how Perez could better his pace after the VSC, I doubt the Renault could do that.

 

I was talking about on mediums.

 

He lost only 3s to Perez and 2s to Sainz during 20 laps while he was held up while hunting down and overtaking 4.5 cars. After the pit stop he was on the pace after 2 laps. Until his error he was best of the rest. When he overtook Grosjean and was hunting down Kvyat in clean air he gained 2.5s on Perez within 4 laps. He had serious pace compared to other midfielders on mediums.



#3253 gowebber

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 03:18

Make of this what you will (regarding Cyril's comments below) but I think at this stage Renault are not in as bad shape as some seem to believe. When conditions are right the car is pretty decent, I think Dan was really starting to crank up the pace before he outbraked himself and at least reliability was good which makes that two races in a row now the Renault team itself haven't had a reliability issue. Add to that Baku kind of being an anomily track for Renault (especially in how hard it was to warm the tyres) and I think things could be on the up at Barcelona.

 

In the 5 or so laps leading up to Dan's DNF he was the fastest driver of the midfield and Perez said himself that McLaren was faster than Racing Point which makes it reasonable to suggest despite this track and its problems for us we were on pure pace the 4th quickest team once our tyres were in the zone. Being hampered by the tyre heating issues also blunted our true pace for qualifying as well which had us starting off on the backfoot in the race.

 

“Over the winter we have been very vocal about the expectation but also about the ambition in terms of power gain on the engine.
 
“I think we’ve accomplished that, but in order to secure that we had to on a number of occasions to fast-track some of the internal processes because it’s a Catch-22.
 
On the chassis side, I’m extremely positive about the rate of development, which is stronger than it’s ever been, which is saying something about also the new Renault that we are starting to see in action.”
 
“Overall, the first stint of the season has been disappointing, but if we manage to get all things in order we can have a decent competitiveness level as demonstrated on several occasions.

 

 

https://www.crash.ne...n-longterm-gain

 

 

At this point I'm willing to take these statements at face value because we have seen glimpses of pace in these 4 races which leads me to believe they have the base of a decent car but just need to unlock a few things. Like I said previously in the year I'm willing to admit I was wrong if by the midway point of the season we are still not making any headway or going backwards but hopefully thats not the case tho. The rate of development now that all the tech facility upgrades have pretty much been completed will be very telling. If we can get a couple of full clean race weekends too that will make it alot easier to judge especially in regards to if we have made any inroads into the gap to Red Bull.   


Edited by gowebber, 02 May 2019 - 03:53.


#3254 ARTGP

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 03:27

I think they are in about the same position as Haas. Not able to unlock the pace for one reason or another every weekend. In  Haas case, they have massive tire temp issues on a car that otherwise probably has the best aero in the midfield. In Renault case, just unreliability, and then brought a garbage aero package to Baku along with tire struggles.



#3255 gowebber

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 04:09

Yeah I'm not so sure about Haas I think we are in better shape than them. They have been pretty average pace wise during races a few times, I believe we have better race pace but its true there are things that need to be unlocked to allow the cars to perform alot better on both teams. I think we had to go with more downforce than we would have liked as well at Baku to try and get the tyres up to temp quicker and try and fix the braking confidence issues, from what I recall we didn't really figure in the top end of the speedtrap figures which was different to being up there at China and Bahrain.


Edited by gowebber, 02 May 2019 - 06:53.


#3256 lbennie

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 04:34

I was talking about on mediums.

 

He lost only 3s to Perez and 2s to Sainz during 20 laps while he was held up while hunting down and overtaking 4.5 cars. After the pit stop he was on the pace after 2 laps. Until his error he was best of the rest. When he overtook Grosjean and was hunting down Kvyat in clean air he gained 2.5s on Perez within 4 laps. He had serious pace compared to other midfielders on mediums.

 

This, don't really understand all the doom and gloom about the car's pace. It looked quickest of the midfield so far on balance, just reliability/mistakes masking it. 



#3257 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 08:41

at least reliability was good which makes that two races in a row now the Renault team itself haven't had a reliability issue.


I’ve asked this in the other thread, but can you explain how in your mind a software issue that could have been avoided causing a DNF in the first of those two races and then in the second race both cars running with turned down engines to avoid further DNF’s equals no reliability issues?

#3258 danstheman

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 10:29

I’ve asked this in the other thread, but can you explain how in your mind a software issue that could have been avoided causing a DNF in the first of those two races and then in the second race both cars running with turned down engines to avoid further DNF’s equals no reliability issues?

 

Where has that been reported? Link please



#3259 statman

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 11:00

Make of this what you will (regarding Cyril's comments below) but I think at this stage Renault are not in as bad shape as some seem to believe. 

“Over the winter we have been very vocal about the expectation but also about the ambition in terms of power gain on the engine.
 
“I think we’ve accomplished that, but in order to secure that we had to on a number of occasions to fast-track some of the internal processes because it’s a Catch-22.
 
On the chassis side, I’m extremely positive about the rate of development, which is stronger than it’s ever been, which is saying something about also the new Renault that we are starting to see in action.”
 
“Overall, the first stint of the season has been disappointing, but if we manage to get all things in order we can have a decent competitiveness level as demonstrated on several occasions.

 

 

 

thanks for pointing out this was by Cyril, otherwise I would've read too much into this..



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#3260 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 11:21

Where has that been reported? Link please


https://www.auto-mot...ssigkeit-power/

#3261 lbennie

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 12:40

Leclerc only just made it alongside dan going into the braking zone at the end of the straight after having the slipstream the entire way on lap 2. That Renault had some ponies, turned down or not. 

 

Compare it to when he got past Verstappen, he was alongside just as they opened the DRS. 



#3262 Requiem84

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 18:33

What were the Q speed traps?

#3263 Clatter

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 19:29

 


That doesn't say they are running a detuned engine. They are running as normal, but the updates will allow higher modes for longer.

#3264 Ivanhoe

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 20:12

That doesn't say they are running a detuned engine. They are running as normal, but the updates will allow higher modes for longer.

It does.

“Schon in Baku werden die vier Autos mit Renault-Motoren mit gedrosselter Leistung fahren. „Wir waren in den ersten drei Rennen ein bisschen zu aggressiv und haben dafür bezahlt“, gibt Teamchef Cyril Abiteboul zu”

Translates as

“Already in Baku the four Renault powered car will drive with reduced power. "We were a bit too aggressive in the first three races and we paid for it," admits team boss Cyril Abiteboul”

What you’re referring to is him also saying they can run higher engine modes longer after the reliability updates.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 02 May 2019 - 20:17.


#3265 Ivanhoe

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 20:57

Leclerc only just made it alongside dan going into the braking zone at the end of the straight after having the slipstream the entire way on lap 2. That Renault had some ponies, turned down or not.

Compare it to when he got past Verstappen, he was alongside just as they opened the DRS.

Lap 2 so no DRS. Lap 36 Leclerc couldn’t make the pass on Gasly on the main straight with DRS, after having the slipstream the entire way coming out of the pits.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 02 May 2019 - 21:05.


#3266 ARTGP

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 23:28

It does.

“Schon in Baku werden die vier Autos mit Renault-Motoren mit gedrosselter Leistung fahren. „Wir waren in den ersten drei Rennen ein bisschen zu aggressiv und haben dafür bezahlt“, gibt Teamchef Cyril Abiteboul zu”

Translates as

“Already in Baku the four Renault powered car will drive with reduced power. "We were a bit too aggressive in the first three races and we paid for it," admits team boss Cyril Abiteboul”

What you’re referring to is him also saying they can run higher engine modes longer after the reliability updates.

You should look again at what you quoted....there is what Abiteboul actually said in the quotes...Those were not abitebouls own words used to say Renault is running reduced power.  Abiteboul only said in quotes

 

 

 

We were a bit too aggressive in the first three races and we paid for it

Edited by ARTGP, 02 May 2019 - 23:43.


#3267 gowebber

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 01:28

"If" the engines were turned down a bit, it said in that article the 26th they "will" but nothing to say post race that they actually did well then thats even better because that means there is an even bigger performance ceiling available that would allow them to run even higher modes once they sort things out. The speed trap figures already looked quite good at other races which along with the dyno figures (proven to translate on track as well) gives a high confidence level that this PU is big improvement. Even Alonso stated this when he tested the McLaren earlier this year. I think Renault were down a little at Baku because they had to run a higher df setup to compensate for the tyre heating issues and related braking confidence issues on the smooth track.


Edited by gowebber, 03 May 2019 - 01:36.


#3268 gowebber

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 01:34

thanks for pointing out this was by Cyril, otherwise I would've read too much into this..

 

Your welcome, however by the way its not just Cyril saying these things either.



#3269 Ivanhoe

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 02:35

You should look again at what you quoted....there is what Abiteboul actually said in the quotes...Those were not abitebouls own words used to say Renault is running reduced power.  Abiteboul only said in quotes


Yeah so? Where did I say it was a direct quote from Cyril? Clatter said “that” (I.e. the article) didn’t say Renault ran with reduced power, it clearly did.

#3270 ARTGP

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 02:36

Any news on Barcelona upgrades? B-spec coming?



#3271 Neno

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 02:49

Any news on Barcelona upgrades? B-spec coming?

Do you know how long it takes to make B-spec car? Close to half a 1/3 of the year. Meaning moment they hit first Barcelona tests and realize car is flawed they would have need to start developing B-spec and  in general change car development completely. If we didnt hear anything about B-spec month ago latest let alone now, you should realize by now B-spec doesnt exist. As for Barcelona upgrades whatever they bring it will only at best keep gap same and hope they arent outdeveloped by some other midfield teams. 


Edited by Neno, 03 May 2019 - 02:50.


#3272 ARTGP

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 03:02

Do you know how long it takes to make B-spec car? Close to half a 1/3 of the year. Meaning moment they hit first Barcelona tests and realize car is flawed they would have need to start developing B-spec and  in general change car development completely. If we didnt hear anything about B-spec month ago latest let alone now, you should realize by now B-spec doesnt exist. As for Barcelona upgrades whatever they bring it will only at best keep gap same and hope they arent outdeveloped by some other midfield teams. 

 

I meant B-spec in jest...

 

Do you know what you mentioned above for fact? Did Cyril DM you :rolleyes: ?


Edited by ARTGP, 03 May 2019 - 03:03.


#3273 Ivanhoe

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 05:45

Well with Cyril stating that chassis development is faster than it has ever been and having a fix for the reliability issues by Barcelona, you’d expect nothing else than a big step in performance.

#3274 eREr

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 11:11

I don't expect miracles by Barcelona. Tyre heating should not be an issue there, so the target can be 4th best team, but nothing more.

I don't expect big updates for this race, just the usual tweaks here and there.

Let's see if they bring the new ICE here and if all cars will get it or not. I think Hulk will not get it here because he has a rather fresh unit. We'll see.

Anyway I don't really care about penalties here and there. I want to see progress on PU and chassis, aero side. If they won't be closer to top3 by the 3rd part of the year, then this year is a failure.

#3275 ARTGP

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 14:16

Magneti Marelli, the infamous ERS-K supplier has been sold to Calsonic-Kansei. Wonder if Renault F1 can take advantage of some Japanese expertise on the ERS for 2021.



#3276 ArrowsLivery

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 23:48

It’s not going well. It’s incredible that in ~4 years, Renault has not been able to break away from the midfield. By 2003 they sometimes had race winning pace... What does Renault management see in Cyril? Guy is a joke, every department under him is seriously underperforming, especially PU. Get some new blood in there!

#3277 Ivanhoe

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Posted 05 May 2019 - 19:09

Cyrlil is Cyril, a bit of a clown. But he’s got a limited budget to work with. If Renault want to be a topteam, they should be spending like a topteam, there are no free lunches in F1.

#3278 eREr

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Posted 05 May 2019 - 21:34

It’s not going well. It’s incredible that in ~4 years, Renault has not been able to break away from the midfield. By 2003 they sometimes had race winning pace... What does Renault management see in Cyril? Guy is a joke, every department under him is seriously underperforming, especially PU. Get some new blood in there!


No. There are much bigger issues with the car/chassis/aero than with the PU.

#3279 SenorSjon

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 09:24

Cyrlil is Cyril, a bit of a clown. But he’s got a limited budget to work with. If Renault want to be a topteam, they should be spending like a topteam, there are no free lunches in F1.

 

He does spend 30m/year on an elite driver while giving him crap to drive with. Why don't they poach Vasseur back from SauRomeo and put Cyril on a production line somewhere?



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#3280 Laptom

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 13:00

He does spend 30m/year on an elite driver while giving him crap to drive with. Why don't they poach Vasseur back from SauRomeo and put Cyril on a production line somewhere?

 

They did. The result was called the Laguna. 



#3281 rootten

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 13:51

 

“We had to on a number of occasions to fast-track some of the internal processes because it’s a Catch-22,” admits Abiteboul. “You’re running against time, and sometimes also running against limitations in resources, and clearly every single time we could, we biased our internal processes towards performance. So we are paying a little bit for that, but I hope that it’s short-term pain for long-term gain.”


When it comes to chassis, Abiteboul says he is “extremely positive about the rate of development, which is stronger than it’s ever been, which is saying something about also the new Renault that we are starting to see in action”.

 

https://www.formula1...rDiOOB4C7J.html



#3282 SenorSjon

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 13:58

No hurry, the MGU-K was 'only' 2 years late.



#3283 rootten

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 14:24

This is a perfect track to judge team's performance. A well known track by all the teams. No excuses this time. There will be nowhere to hide



#3284 Thatfastguy

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 15:55

This is a perfect track to judge team's performance. A well known track by all the teams. No excuses this time. There will be nowhere to hide

 

This exactly. Very typical racetrack. After Spain there are no excuses left. 



#3285 ARTGP

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 00:17

This is a perfect track to judge team's performance. A well known track by all the teams. No excuses this time. There will be nowhere to hide

 

Yes. I'm keen to see the updates and the progress on the rear end instability.  There was some positive language between the races of China and Baku regarding finding something in the steering geometry that was improving the aerodynamics. There are quite a few corners that Renault would be better than pre-season through if they have found something there.


Edited by ARTGP, 07 May 2019 - 00:19.


#3286 gowebber

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 09:19

Front and rear aero updates and mechanical car balance tweaks for Barcelona. Hopefully they work and are a decent improvement. A better balanced car could really make a big difference.

 

"Technical director Nick Chester revealed Renault will be boosted by a host of “reasonable upgrades” to its 2019 challenger in a continued push for added performance.
 
“As the first European round, Barcelona does offer a good opportunity to bring a number of updates to the car,” Chester explained.
 
“Most other teams will do the same, but we have a number of reasonable upgrades that are positive. We have a few aero parts to add to the front wing and rear of the car.
 
We are also looking at some mechanical tweaks to improve car balance. At this stage there is a development race going on between the teams, but we will keep pushing hard to get best from it each weekend.”

 

https://www.crash.ne...eason-abiteboul


Edited by gowebber, 07 May 2019 - 09:24.


#3287 rootten

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 09:24

they can add as many updates as they want but they are lacking in race operations (Alan Permane?), they always manage to screw some things up which puts them in a disadvantage

 

hopefully it won't be the case this time around



#3288 statman

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 14:16

He does spend 30m/year on an elite driver while giving him crap to drive with. Why don't they poach Vasseur back from SauRomeo and put Cyril on a production line somewhere?

 

Cyril on a production line? But then we won't get these key wisdoms:

 

https://www.formula1...fxwgDJCOjc.html

 

 

...Abiteboul has admitted the team’s failings and hopes...

...The start of the European segment of the 2019 Formula 1 season is an opportunity for us to reset,” said Abiteboul...

...We know we are capable of much more...

...we have work to do on all sides of our operation; chassis and engine on and off track...

...We are motivated as ever to strive for more...

...We know that the midfield is tight, but this also creates opportunities...

 

Cyril is now full zen again after his glum Baku weekend  :D



#3289 Neno

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 16:07

Cyril on a production line? But then we won't get these key wisdoms:

 

https://www.formula1...fxwgDJCOjc.html

 

 

...Abiteboul has admitted the team’s failings and hopes...

...The start of the European segment of the 2019 Formula 1 season is an opportunity for us to reset,” said Abiteboul...

...We know we are capable of much more...

...we have work to do on all sides of our operation; chassis and engine on and off track...

...We are motivated as ever to strive for more...

...We know that the midfield is tight, but this also creates opportunities...

 

Cyril is now full zen again after his glum Baku weekend  :D

what this even mean. so much bull lol In other hand typical Cyril article.   


Edited by Neno, 07 May 2019 - 16:07.


#3290 Paco

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 17:27

Cyril on a production line? But then we won't get these key wisdoms:

 

https://www.formula1...fxwgDJCOjc.html

 

 

...Abiteboul has admitted the team’s failings and hopes...

...The start of the European segment of the 2019 Formula 1 season is an opportunity for us to reset,” said Abiteboul...

...We know we are capable of much more...

...we have work to do on all sides of our operation; chassis and engine on and off track...

...We are motivated as ever to strive for more...

...We know that the midfield is tight, but this also creates opportunities...

 

Cyril is now full zen again after his glum Baku weekend  :D

 

And this is different than what's been said year over year over year :rotfl:



#3291 eREr

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Posted 08 May 2019 - 11:50

No PU upgrade for this race?



#3292 SenorSjon

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Posted 08 May 2019 - 11:55

Still updating the software I guess.

 

Usually engine updates are for Canada due to the long straight. Spain and Monaco aren't that taxing for the engines.



#3293 ernestomodena

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Posted 08 May 2019 - 11:55

No PU upgrade for this race?

 

They already are on the second unit.



#3294 krapmeister

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Posted 08 May 2019 - 11:59

I thought Renault was bringing some upgrades to the engines for reliability so they could run the engines at full power again?

 

Were they just software upgrades? I had the impression it was more hardware issues...



#3295 eREr

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Posted 08 May 2019 - 12:03

Still updating the software I guess.

 

Usually engine updates are for Canada due to the long straight. Spain and Monaco aren't that taxing for the engines.

 

Honda already updated and Ferrari will do the same in Barcelona.



#3296 eREr

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Posted 08 May 2019 - 12:04

They already are on the second unit.

 

Only for Hulk and Sainz.



#3297 stillwater

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Posted 08 May 2019 - 12:53

hard to move forward when you team puts in half the man ours as every other team... and you have less of them than the front 3 teams

O that... and your people are mehhhhh



#3298 rootten

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Posted 08 May 2019 - 13:29

Finding quality people is not an easy thing to do, then you have a gardening leave and adding to that the fact that you have to start working on a car more than a year in advance gives you better picture

 

Upgrading the facilities and pouring in the money is the easiest part in all this



#3299 Laster

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Posted 08 May 2019 - 13:55

https://www.racefans...-for-2021-push/ - Some changes in Renault’s management structure.

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#3300 rootten

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Posted 08 May 2019 - 14:07

 

 

At the Enstone-based chassis operation, Matt Harman moves from the role of deputy chief designer to engineering director, reporting to Chester. Harman joined the team last year following an 11-year stint at Mercedes, including seven years as the team’s head of powertrain integration and chassis design.

 

Where is Budkowski in all this?