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Renault Technical Thread (R.S.19)


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#401 Alburaq

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 13:25

Renault tries to hide something. I think this years launch rendering was photoshopped a bit. Turning vanes missing. The other pic is the 2018 launch rendering. #F1 #RenaultF1Team
https://twitter.com/...310044772601857
DzNRxIBWkAAC7Wl.jpg


Interesting in depth analysis of some of the RS19 differences

https://maxf1.net/en...renault-r-s-19/

Not a good analysis.
 
 

Barely?! The engine was introduced around Monza, with 1/3rd of the season still to go.

 
How many times did it run, on a real track?

Edited by Alburaq, 13 February 2019 - 13:33.


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#402 JimboJones

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 13:25

Finally someone that can comprehend that english language is not revolving point of the whole universe


Wow, you still dont want to acknowledge that you were wrong then? Maybe after 3 people point out how ridiculous something you said is, you should check whether you got the English right before looking even sillier. If you prefer people not to correct you, stick to German forums...

#403 BiggestBuddyLazierFan

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 13:36

Wow, you still dont want to acknowledge that you were wrong then? Maybe after 3 people point out how ridiculous something you said is, you should check whether you got the English right before looking even sillier. If you prefer people not to correct you, stick to German forums...


Is Autosport a German forum?

#404 Man of the race

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 13:39

I would suggest a term "negative antirake" as a compromise.



#405 Dratini

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 13:54

Is Autosport a German forum?

This is so frivolous. Can we please just accept that antirake isn't a thing in the English language. That it is in fact a thing in the German language, but that the thing it is, isn't the thing that you purported it to be. It all counts for nothing so let's get back to talking about the car for which this thread was made. :up:



#406 sgtkate

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 14:14

No it's not, you are right, but this is an English speaking board so it's the revolving point of this forum hence the confusion. I still don't think you are right either regardless of language!



#407 SenorSjon

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 14:19

Not a good analysis.
 
 
 
How many times did it run, on a real track?

 

4-5 races? Not that different from spec A or B who had less of those issues from the get go (bar Verstappens Bahrein mishap when the mapping decided he was near full throttle so 'needed' full ERS deployment in a corner).



#408 Alburaq

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 15:11

I thought Spec C did only two races or a race and some Fp sessions...

#409 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 15:12

It's hard to expect Renault to build a chassis in the league of Red Bull.

 

That's what they are trying to do.  They have tried to extract many 1% gains all over (for example, the swan neck wing support instead of the pressure side support they had before), so we will see if this works for Renault.  :)

 

It's only these little refinements all over that separate the better chassis from an average one.  They all operate on the same basic principles, after all.

 

This also explains why the overall shape is quite similar, even though every single part is changed (apart from the steering rack). There is no point changing concepts and layouts where it doesn't add performance (the conventional style nose of Renault works well, so it stays and is just tweaked as required for example).


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 13 February 2019 - 15:14.


#410 Alburaq

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 15:17

"Bonjour...je m’appelle Daniel"  :lol:

https://youtu.be/LcfpSnxmgzo?t=143



#411 Ivanhoe

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 15:22

I thought Spec C did only two races or a race and some Fp sessions...


It was introduced in Monza and they only reverted to spec B in Mexico if I recall correctly. Think Dan went back to a B spec for a couple of races out of his pool when his C spec blew up, but Max did 7 races I think.

#412 A3

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 15:28

 

It's only true for the C spec which also barely had the time to be fine tuned mapping-wise.

 

There were already mapping issues in Bahrein. Don't know what spec that was.



#413 Alburaq

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 16:13

Haha the infamous mapping issues of Bahrain that allegedly caused VER crash?

 

 

Renault set ambitious ambitions for its 2019 season and at times seemed very optimistic. The new rookie of the team, Daniel Ricciardo, ensures that the statements are not made for nothing and that the French team continued to progress this winter.
 
"Now that I'm part of the Renault family, I've seen the numbers and I know they're not there for fun, it's been a good winter," says Ricciardo. "But racing cars are racing cars, a lot of work is done on the bench but once on the track, we can see that the car is not reacting as expected."
 
"So far, looking at the numbers, we can see that what has been done during the winter is positive, I do not mean that we will be better than Mercedes or whatever, but I say that what they did was was very positive, it's great to hear, that's for sure. "
 
Ricciardo recognizes that the main objective of the winter tests will be to work on the reliability of this new RS19: "Normally, I think we leave more satisfied if we run more laps than if we make good times . "
 
"It's a big problem, reliability, because it's complicated to develop unreliable, and when things go wrong, it's hard to start putting more powerful parts if they let go. we and we hope we can continue with that. "

https://motorsport.n...ver,134514.html


Edited by Alburaq, 13 February 2019 - 17:04.


#414 eREr

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 16:59

It was introduced in Monza and they only reverted to spec B in Mexico if I recall correctly. Think Dan went back to a B spec for a couple of races out of his pool when his C spec blew up, but Max did 7 races I think.


Non of the spec c PUs blew up.

#415 Ivanhoe

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 19:57

Non of the spec c PUs blew up.


You’re right, I stand corrected. Was mixing up specs, Ricciardo had to drive a spec A from the pool in Hungary because Renault decided not to give him a new ICE despite starting from the back of the grid in Hockenheim, where his spec B blew up in the race.

#416 gowebber

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 20:27

I don't understand how you can make any determination on the performance of any of the cars based on a set of images.

 

Exactly. I don't get all the doom and gloom from some people when the cars haven't even hit the track for testing let alone at Melbourne. 


Edited by gowebber, 13 February 2019 - 20:29.


#417 RPM40

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 21:00

Haha the infamous mapping issues of Bahrain that allegedly caused VER crash?

 

https://motorsport.n...ver,134514.html

The dreaded oscillating foot 



#418 ernestomodena

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 21:06

Let's wait en see if they have the car ready and running without problems next week in testing. And judge from there.



#419 rootten

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 22:05

Can't help myself but feel a little bit sad when looking at Merc and RBR cars, they run some solutions for so many years now that Renault haven't copied yet. I know they are doing their own thing and pushing the development in their own ways, but why it alwas takes them so long to incorporate other teams findings...

 

They are really lacking on chassis side, Cyril is right about that



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#420 krapmeister

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 22:09

Now that I saw our competition in RB and Mercedes. Pack it up boys, futile hope.


I really don't think anyone was expecting Renault to be competing for wins this year were they?

#421 eREr

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 22:40

I think everyone expected some radical, never seen solutions on the car. These rendered pics didn't contain anything radical.

But the team didn't share pictures from the back for whatever reason. And photoshopped out some parts of the car. So I would wait for the pics of the real car from Barcelona.

I would say there is no point to compare it to Red Bull. They are on different level compared to everyone, not just compared to Renault. Only the Honda PU might hold them back (coupled with supertight packaging), nothing else.

But compared to WC Merc I don't see so radical differences.

So let's see the real car on track next week. That shall be the real starting point.

Edited by eREr, 13 February 2019 - 22:40.


#422 krapmeister

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 22:46

The way the regs are so prescribed these days I really don't think anything very 'radical' is ever going to appear visually on the cars.

Sure there may be something underneath the bodywork etc that is pushing the known limits - not that I am saying Renault are doing that either - but that isn't anything you are ever going to see from livery/car launches...

#423 DILLIGAF

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 22:46

I understood it was the 2018 car at the physical launch but 2019 car in the rendered images?

Yep. Sorry for the confusion. The 2019 car is in the rendered images.



#424 eREr

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 23:01

Can't help myself but feel a little bit sad when looking at Merc and RBR cars, they run some solutions for so many years now that Renault haven't copied yet. I know they are doing their own thing and pushing the development in their own ways, but why it alwas takes them so long to incorporate other teams findings...

They are really lacking on chassis side, Cyril is right about that


Which part(s) of the Merc is(are) so much better than the RS19? I'm curious.

#425 PayasYouRace

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 23:23

Can't help myself but feel a little bit sad when looking at Merc and RBR cars, they run some solutions for so many years now that Renault haven't copied yet. I know they are doing their own thing and pushing the development in their own ways, but why it alwas takes them so long to incorporate other teams findings...

 

They are really lacking on chassis side, Cyril is right about that

 

Copying another car without understanding why it works is a direct route to the back of the grid in today's F1.



#426 lbennie

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 23:30

Merc and RB look pretty similar to their previous cars.

Other than their, admittedly, very cool fresh paint jobs I don't see what the fuss is about.

 

I'm sure they will be fast though.



#427 Neno

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 23:36

I really don't think anyone was expecting Renault to be competing for wins this year were they?

It's not about wins. It's about being miles away design and concept wise after promising "new car" . It looks like difference between 450M and 150M budget. 


Edited by Neno, 13 February 2019 - 23:36.


#428 gowebber

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 23:41

Obviously it's not all about how a car looks. Lets wait till Melbourne.Heck even a Mr Whippy van can be made fast with the right engine and aero parts. 😂

Edited by gowebber, 14 February 2019 - 00:12.


#429 ch103

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 00:11

Before we right off Renault lets see how the race in Melbourne goes, shall we?



#430 krapmeister

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 00:15

It's not about wins. It's about being miles away design and concept wise after promising "new car" . It looks like difference between 450M and 150M budget.


It's not 'new car' relative to Merc/Ferrari/RBR, it's a new car relative to the RS18. And it's all about relative gains - Renault have a lot more potential for improvement over their previous car compared to the top 3. If they can close the gap to them (including the gains made for this season) then they will be doing well.

But yes we won't be seeing the definitive spec car until Melbourne at the earliest, if not even until the start of the European season...

#431 Alburaq

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 07:00

Mercedes is the WC title holder, and they have a very proven design and yet they changed their car a lot more than RS.19, with many agressive features. And the Renault has 1.s5 to find...

RB is doing quite the same as Merc...

 

Renault is also copying the most fancy solutions, and even in that they are not very agressive (sidepods)

The diffuser is a new design though, it's a kinda new generation of diffusers (borrowed from RB)

 

I thought Renault has scarified its 2018 program to focus on this car... but RS19 doesn't really look like a new departure, a car made with a very long lead time and increased ressources... a car made by a team that needs to find 1s5 seconds or even 0.7s ASAP, because it looks like a direct evolution of the RS.18 which was relatively underdeveloped (aero-wise) and was conservative aero evolution of the RS.17.

 

The real RS.19 will not be very different from the 3D render, I'm afraid.

 

I'm not saying the RS.19 will be slow... but will it reduce that gap? is building a conservative first iteration (again) is the right solution in this new phase, which is supposed to be an attack phase? You can argue Renault wanted to build an uncomplicated car in 2018, a clear platform to better understand modern aero and go step by step (to change the internals first) etc... but what about now?

 

Looking forward for those mysterious under-nose turning vanes. I hope they are radical : P maybe the bargeboards will also change completely, because these are extremely close to the latest 2018 bb, they're only shorter because of the new rules basically... same goes for the aerocat who only got its a** shopped off to comply with the new rules. 
The floor will obviously change.

f1-2019-renault_rs19_rake-copie.jpg


Edited by Alburaq, 14 February 2019 - 07:44.


#432 krapmeister

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 07:16

It's not about how aggressive the aero looks, it is how well it all works together. I would rather (and hope) Renault have a car that works well aerodynamically and more importantly understand why, than make something that looks 'aggressive' but is rubbish and they scratch their heads about it...

*cough* Williams *cough* Mclaren *cough*

Let's just wait and see what Renault shows up with on track before we go all Chicken Little shall we?

Edited by krapmeister, 14 February 2019 - 07:19.


#433 stillwater

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 08:24

Quote

Renault tries to hide something. I think this years launch rendering was photoshopped a bit. Turning vanes missing. The other pic is the 2018 launch rendering

 

 

Had a good look at that pic

At first I agreed with the idea that it had been photoshopped.

 

However after looking at the shots from above its clear that this is just the leading edge of the ribbed scoop that is on the under side of the cockpit (i have no idea what you call it)

that part is clear coated carbon fiber in appearance and covered in fins, from the angle shown with this quote its got allot of reflection which makes it look like and error that has been badly erased and not a part of the car.

 

Will be clearer when its the real car and not just a 3d render.

 

Still dont have any real hope that they will match or beat RBR

closer by 0.5 a lap (over 2018) would be about all I can bring myself to wish for.


Edited by stillwater, 14 February 2019 - 08:27.


#434 Requiem84

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 09:41

Mercedes is the WC title holder, and they have a very proven design and yet they changed their car a lot more than RS.19, with many agressive features. And the Renault has 1.s5 to find...

RB is doing quite the same as Merc...

 

Renault is also copying the most fancy solutions, and even in that they are not very agressive (sidepods)

The diffuser is a new design though, it's a kinda new generation of diffusers (borrowed from RB)

 

I thought Renault has scarified its 2018 program to focus on this car... but RS19 doesn't really look like a new departure, a car made with a very long lead time and increased ressources... a car made by a team that needs to find 1s5 seconds or even 0.7s ASAP, because it looks like a direct evolution of the RS.18 which was relatively underdeveloped (aero-wise) and was conservative aero evolution of the RS.17.

 

The real RS.19 will not be very different from the 3D render, I'm afraid.

 

I'm not saying the RS.19 will be slow... but will it reduce that gap? is building a conservative first iteration (again) is the right solution in this new phase, which is supposed to be an attack phase? You can argue Renault wanted to build an uncomplicated car in 2018, a clear platform to better understand modern aero and go step by step (to change the internals first) etc... but what about now?

 

Looking forward for those mysterious under-nose turning vanes. I hope they are radical : P maybe the bargeboards will also change completely, because these are extremely close to the latest 2018 bb, they're only shorter because of the new rules basically... same goes for the aerocat who only got its a** shopped off to comply with the new rules. 
The floor will obviously change.

f1-2019-renault_rs19_rake-copie.jpg

 

Renault is skipping the planned Shakedown for a reason. They pushed the lead time... many new parts are still being made in the factory which are not on the (rendered) car yet I suppose. 

 

If the car will be similar to the renders.. I think we can say that Abiteboul again has over promised and under delivered...


Edited by Requiem84, 14 February 2019 - 09:42.


#435 sgtkate

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 09:42

Surely every bit of aero on the car has impact on the weight and airflow. The *best* car in theory would be one where the airflow is channelled correctly by as fewer pieces of aero as possible. The cars like Racing Point look to me (as an absolute layman) like they've buggered up the airflow at the front and are now trying to compensate my whacking loads of tiny deflectors all over the place to channel the air better. If the airflows right off the major aero components you don't need lots of aggressive looking flaps and widgets.



#436 Requiem84

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 09:54

Surely every bit of aero on the car has impact on the weight and airflow. The *best* car in theory would be one where the airflow is channelled correctly by as fewer pieces of aero as possible. The cars like Racing Point look to me (as an absolute layman) like they've buggered up the airflow at the front and are now trying to compensate my whacking loads of tiny deflectors all over the place to channel the air better. If the airflows right off the major aero components you don't need lots of aggressive looking flaps and widgets.

 

This is exactly the position RB took with the initial 2017 car. 

 

The philosophy was to design a very efficient low drag car. Their barge board are designs were very basic compared to Mercedes and especially Ferrari. It turned out they missed a trick in that department. At the end of the year their barge board area was equally complicated...



#437 pryanjack

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 10:14

Has it been confirmed that the will/will not make the shakedown?



#438 MadYarpen

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 11:36

Has it been confirmed that the will/will not make the shakedown?

I've read they are struggling to be ready for the 1st day of testing, so I wouldn't expect any shakedown. Similar situation as with Williams and Racing Point.



#439 statman

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 11:59

Cyril is on it!

 

Abiteboul: We are aiming for zero DNF's


Edited by statman, 14 February 2019 - 11:59.


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#440 A3

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 11:59

Although Renault said it launched its 2019 car on Tuesday, the black and yellow machine was actually the 2018 chassis with this year's bodywork.

"We have an incredibly tight schedule," boss Cyril Abiteboul admitted.

"We actually wanted to do a function test on Saturday for the so-called filming day, but that lies in the balance," he said. "We do not know if we will be finished.

"I can only guarantee one thing: our drivers will be at the test in Barcelona on Monday morning. The motor home will be open and the coffee machine turned on," Abiteboul smiled.

He said the delay is due to the aerodynamic rule changes.

"We wanted to work in the wind tunnel as long as possible," said Abiteboul. "We are really at the limit in terms of timing. Maybe a bit too much."

https://www.sportsmo...ars_350301.html



#441 SenorSjon

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 12:38

Haha the infamous mapping issues of Bahrain that allegedly caused VER crash?

 

https://motorsport.n...ver,134514.html

 

 

The dreaded oscillating foot 

 

He explained it in an end-of-season interview.

 

With increased DF and a mapping that worked well in 2017, but gave trouble in 2018, the car deploys ERS in the last 5-10% of the paddle travel because that is usually on a straight. Only this time a corner previous not being close to full throttle was now near full throttle. Enough for the CPU to deploy the ERS and it behaves like an on/off switch. So mid corner, he suddenly had 120 hp extra. That was too much for the grip level the car had and it spun off. As a consequence, they lengthened the throtttle travel quite a bit to prevent this from happening again. 

 

In 2018, the drivabilty was worse, compounded by spec C that did all kind of unwanted things like almost cutting out the engine during SC's or sort of misfiring in Q-mode. Ricciardo was less affected by this or has a driving style more tolerant for this. I really wonder what he can do this year.



#442 Thatfastguy

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 12:42

He explained it in an end-of-season interview.

 

With increased DF and a mapping that worked well in 2017, but gave trouble in 2018, the car deploys ERS in the last 5-10% of the paddle travel because that is usually on a straight. Only this time a corner previous not being close to full throttle was now near full throttle. Enough for the CPU to deploy the ERS and it behaves like an on/off switch. So mid corner, he suddenly had 120 hp extra. That was too much for the grip level the car had and it spun off. As a consequence, they lengthened the throtttle travel quite a bit to prevent this from happening again. 

 

In 2018, the drivabilty was worse, compounded by spec C that did all kind of unwanted things like almost cutting out the engine during SC's or sort of misfiring in Q-mode. Ricciardo was less affected by this or has a driving style more tolerant for this. I really wonder what he can do this year.

They know this mate, don't feed the trolls. 



#443 Neno

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 13:08

Can't help myself but feel a little bit sad when looking at Merc and RBR cars, they run some solutions for so many years now that Renault haven't copied yet. I know they are doing their own thing and pushing the development in their own ways, but why it alwas takes them so long to incorporate other teams findings...

 

They are really lacking on chassis side, Cyril is right about that

you are not only one sad. i am starting to get frustrated. already looking at this car (even thought it's rendered), before it hit even f track. I just know it's not solution or answer. 


Edited by Neno, 14 February 2019 - 14:24.


#444 Laster

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 13:49

Of course this Renault won’t challenge Merc, Ferrari or Red Bull, not even Renault have been anticipating that, why would anyone else? Just as last year was about establishing itself at the head of the midfield. This year is about closing the gap to the front three, and when that gap is a second and a half, you have to accept it’s going to take time. Being consistently within a second of those three will be an achievement, and good progress. That’s the goal for the year. Anyone expecting more needs a reality check, you can’t suddenly leap to the front. Progress has to be made and built upon year by year, it is not the work of a moment.

#445 Alburaq

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 13:52

They know this mate, don't feed the trolls.


We dont know this, it's still exaggerated, we are not trolls and this is not baby Verstappen fan club  :wave:


Edited by Alburaq, 14 February 2019 - 13:57.


#446 rootten

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 13:56

Wy would anyone besides some hardcore fan know this?



#447 A3

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 13:58

Of course this Renault won’t challenge Merc, Ferrari or Red Bull, not even Renault have been anticipating that, why would anyone else? Just as last year was about establishing itself at the head of the midfield. This year is about closing the gap to the front three, and when that gap is a second and a half, you have to accept it’s going to take time. Being consistently within a second of those three will be an achievement, and good progress. That’s the goal for the year. Anyone expecting more needs a reality check, you can’t suddenly leap to the front. Progress has to be made and built upon year by year, it is not the work of a moment.

 

Prost talks about podiums...

Sure, he says he's hoping for one, but if Alain Prost tells the staff he hopes Ricciardo or Hulkenberg can get on the podium this year, surely that's an indication he thinks they can challenge the top 3?



#448 Thatfastguy

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 14:02

We dont know this, it's still doubtful and exaggerated, we are not trolls and this is not baby Verstappen fan club  :wave:

 

We do know this mate, RB and Max have explained it numerous times at length. Its doubtful and exaggerated in your mind only because its suits your anti-Max narrative, so don't try to turn this around and accuse the people who believe those involved of Verstappen fanboyism. 



#449 A3

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 14:05

We dont know this, it's still exaggerated, we are not trolls and this is not baby Verstappen fan club  :wave:

 

 

I said they were already mapping issues in Bahrein. I never mentioned the crash. Fact is, Max was instructed to do a second Q1 lap because they needed to calibrate the mapping. Surely there was an issue with it, otherwise they would not have to do that in qualifying?



#450 Laster

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 14:07

Prost talks about podiums...

Sure, he says he's hoping for one, but if Alain Prost tells the staff he hopes Ricciardo or Hulkenberg can get on the podium this year, surely that's an indication he thinks they can challenge the top 3?

I think that's an indication he expects Renault to be first in line of the midfield to jump on the mistakes of those in front, with a little added hope Honda engines continue to suffer poor reliability.