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Red Bull Racing Technical Thread (RB15)


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Poll: Will the VTEC kick in? (400 member(s) have cast votes)

Can they fight for the championship?

  1. Yes (108 votes [27.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 27.00%

  2. No (220 votes [55.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 55.00%

  3. Don’t Know (72 votes [18.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 18.00%

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#3051 Stephane

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 15:13

First of the season, in a new series. With an opportunity to visit Sakura.



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#3052 SJRace

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 17:36

Interesting “fact” there mate

 

I can't tell if he's still continuing to troll, or if he really is this delusional.



#3053 Kao18

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 20:47

Maybe it wasnt 'just for that', maybe he also visited the Honda factory?

#3054 Maxioos

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 20:48

With the success Adrian has had and the wealth he has, in surprised he still finds motivation to do what he does. Especially if that involves missing out on things like watching your son race at Suzuka.
These kind of people are a different breed to me. Not saying it's bad, but I'm impressed and amazed by their motivation to keep striving. Unfortunate it can come at family expense though. Good for Adrian.


That counts for a lot of people. Like most don't know or recognise how successful Marko is outside the F1 with his hotels etc. He is their because it's his passion and not for the money.

Newey his job surrounding Barca update should be done anyway, that should and will all be in production. And he has a big team that must be able to follow him up if he leaves, so, he also must trust them that they can handle big part of the process. And they are world travellers anyway, would not even be surprised he doesn't make large part own agenda anyway and has a secratresse for that, and even this kind of family time is arranged in that by them. That's how it's done by Toto Wolf (love their inside scoops/info), he has 2 persons, one who fulltime handlers his agenda alone. So I suspect that counts in large part also for management level below team manager.

#3055 DILLIGAF

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 22:23

Horner not as optimistic as Marko regarding winning races this season.

 

https://www.motorspo...-marko/4374038/



#3056 Maxioos

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 15:01

Horner not as optimistic as Marko regarding winning races this season.
 
https://www.motorspo...-marko/4374038/


That's not what he said, he said they didn't set it as goal, he didn't say it wouldn't be achievable. He just is from the standpoint, getting 5 or 6 wins don't make it a success year if it could or should have been 10.

#3057 Ragnar668

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 06:37

https://www.motorspo...e-baku/4374796/

Spec 2



#3058 Stephane

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 07:02

Official news this time.



#3059 A3

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 07:07

https://www.motorspo...e-baku/4374796/

Spec 2


Moving to a second set of components at race four effectively guarantees Verstappen and Gasly will need a fourth engine, at least, towards the end of the year.

I don't get this part. Yes, they get a new engine for this race, but maybe the current engines stay in the pool and will still be usable, right?

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#3060 Laptom

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 07:12

Current engine will be used at least on the Friday's training I suspect.



#3061 Ivanhoe

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 07:13

I don't get this part. Yes, they get a new engine for this race, but maybe the current engines stay in the pool and will still be usable, right?


Technically yes, but can’t see them using that spec 1 ICE in a race again, it would be less reliable and less powerfull, I’d assume they’d rather take a latest spec engine by the time and take a penalty.

#3062 Sash1

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 07:21

Technically yes, but can’t see them using that spec 1 ICE in a race again, it would be less reliable and less powerfull, I’d assume they’d rather take a latest spec engine by the time and take a penalty.

 

Maybeback in at Monaco?

But to take a penalty and still score a 4th or 5th place somewhere is ok. That is what the old engine gives them anyway. There is no loss taking a penalty. The new engines can be run a bit harder at some places as well. 


Edited by Sash1, 24 April 2019 - 07:23.


#3063 Requiem84

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 07:54

Seems like slec 1.5 to be honest.

Not a planned (power) update, but a reaction to what they found on Kvyat’s PU most likely. Some parts wearing more than anticipated.

#3064 restless

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 07:56

They can\t produce 4 (or more) engines in 3 days between decision making and sending engines to Azerbaijan

The spec was planned ahead, but they "rushed" it 1-2 weeks ahead



#3065 Tiakumosan

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 08:00

Maybe they will delay the next upgrade? Doesn't make much sense to introduce this spec due to reliability and introduce spec3 in Canada, no?



#3066 Reddington

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 08:38

It's kind of hard to read into the RB15 at the moment I feel. Personally, I am somewhat underwhelmed by the chassis so far and positively surprised by Honda's reliability. The car doesn't seem to have made a jump towards the Ferrari and Merc relative to the start of last season, yet everyone at RBR seems to be calm, collected and having faith in that they will get things sorted. I do have faith in RBR's ability to develop the car as needed and even out develop everyone including Ferrari (I personally think that RBR and Merc are the two teams who seem a level above anyone else regarding in season development compared to all others). Yet I was hoping for the RB15 being competitive straight out of the box, but that seems to remain a problem at RBR: they always make up with in season development, yet never seem to be able to do it from day 1.

 

Anyway, if they indeed found some fixes as they say, if Honda indeed remains reliable and if there are indeed power gains soon (starting Baku/Barcelona) and they can be up there, the championship would become interesting. But if it takes as long as the past seasons, it will be a rinse and repeat season, which is not what I think was needed and expected.

 

I remain ever so slightly positive they will turn it around, but it needs to come quickly.



#3067 as65p

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 08:47

They can\t produce 4 (or more) engines in 3 days between decision making and sending engines to Azerbaijan

The spec was planned ahead, but they "rushed" it 1-2 weeks ahead

 

Everything is possible. It may be as you say, but it could also be they just fixed the reliability issue leaving the engine otherwise unchanged, and PR department decided it's better to sell it as a spec upgrade.



#3068 Ragnar668

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 08:58

I don't get this part. Yes, they get a new engine for this race, but maybe the current engines stay in the pool and will still be usable, right?

 

Doornbos seems to think Spec 1 will return in future races



#3069 Requiem84

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 09:00

They can\t produce 4 (or more) engines in 3 days between decision making and sending engines to Azerbaijan
The spec was planned ahead, but they "rushed" it 1-2 weeks ahead


They changed Kvyat’s engine before China, possibly right after Bahrein (few days later). That would give them enough time to diagnose and react by fixing the identified issue in the already built spare PU’s.

They will always have a few spare PU’s ready in case they needto change one at the track.

Basically we’re seeing the first reliability issue by Honda.

#3070 Marklar

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 09:05

Doornbos seems to think Spec 1 will return in future races

Probably Monaco, maybe Singapore/Budapest, unless the change is a pure reliability concern.

#3071 Requiem84

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 09:10

Probably Monaco, maybe Singapore/Budapest, unless the change is a pure reliability concern.


Unlikely, by that time Honda should have a more powerful Spec 3 engine.

On high df tracks, where they might win, why would they use a less powerful older PU?

They’ll just take some penalties at Monza or so

#3072 Stephane

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 09:36

They changed Kvyat’s engine before China, possibly right after Bahrein (few days later). That would give them enough time to diagnose and react by fixing the identified issue in the already built spare PU’s.

They will always have a few spare PU’s ready in case they needto change one at the track.

Basically we’re seeing the first reliability issue by Honda.

 

Nope, Kvyat engine was changed between P1 and P2 in China



#3073 Requiem84

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 10:01

Nope, Kvyat engine was changed between P1 and P2 in China


If that is true, they had less time to prepare 4 new PU’s. But they would have had +- 10 days instead of the 3 mentioned above.

#3074 restless

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 10:13

Until the engine reached Sakura they had no way to know if it was damaged. In saturday there were articles explaining the logistics of engine movement and that they'll have 3 days to check and  decide what to do

And these engines are hand-made. Producing all the details for 4 engines in such short time is unbelievable.

Not to mention that as this is new spec (be it 1.1, 1.5 or 2) requires extensive testing and validation.

IF they have 4 engines on wednesday (last day when they can send these and reach Baku for friday practice), they had EVERYTHING prepared and in production ahead of checking Kvyat's engine

So, its a planned engine change, probably "rushed ahead" a week or two

Probably one of specs they tested in Bahrein after the race



#3075 Pits

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 10:37

It's gonna be windy again in Baku... :well:

I hope it doesn't effect the downforce to much as it did in Bahrein.

I guess the chassis update planned fort this race should fix the problem?



#3076 Booky36

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:04

Nope, Kvyat engine was changed between P1 and P2 in China

 

 

Honda has a good MGU K,  the weakness seems to be the ICE , hope its fixed 



#3077 Talisman

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:07

Until the engine reached Sakura they had no way to know if it was damaged. In saturday there were articles explaining the logistics of engine movement and that they'll have 3 days to check and decide what to do
And these engines are hand-made. Producing all the details for 4 engines in such short time is unbelievable.
Not to mention that as this is new spec (be it 1.1, 1.5 or 2) requires extensive testing and validation.
IF they have 4 engines on wednesday (last day when they can send these and reach Baku for friday practice), they had EVERYTHING prepared and in production ahead of checking Kvyat's engine
So, its a planned engine change, probably "rushed ahead" a week or two
Probably one of specs they tested in Bahrein after the race


Apparently Chinese customs delayed transfer of the engine out of the country more than usual for other races so Sakura had even less time than normal to evaluate the issue. So it doesn’t quite sound right that they took the decision to introduce the new spec for Baku just based on the results from China because of the long lead time taken to introduce a new spec unit.

So a new spec with a modest power increase earlier than expected and with potential reliability benefits.

I do wonder if they will rely heavily on spec 1 units for FP and try to extend the mileage on the new spec units so that the third spec units can be introduced a bit later than we would now expect.

#3078 Ragnar668

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:13

It's gonna be windy again in Baku... :well:

I hope it doesn't effect the downforce to much as it did in Bahrein.

I guess the chassis update planned fort this race should fix the problem?

Something was incorrectly installed in Bahrein as I recall



#3079 SenorSjon

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:46

Jup, a factory installed part they usually don't touch on race weekends. That is why they couldn't find it at first.



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#3080 Pits

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:49

Something was incorrectly installed in Bahrein as I recall

Yes, I know this.

But I thought that the car aero also was heavily effected by the wind, more so than other concepts.

Making the car unpredictable



#3081 statman

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 12:48

AMUS:

 

Honda brings its first engine upgrade to the racetrack. Red Bull gets the full package of the new drive unit, Toro Rosso just the internal combustion engine.
 
New Honda engine has improvements on reliability and performance (mainly race pace). Albon's engine from accident could be used on Fridays.


#3082 Thatfastguy

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 13:18

I thought the update would bring qualy pace not race pace?

 

Much prefer it to be race pace. 



#3083 Requiem84

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 13:25

More reliable = longer in higher power modes during the race

#3084 JimmyTheFox

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 15:13

I thought the update would bring qualy pace not race pace?

Much prefer it to be race pace.

It's bringing both?

More durability and slight performance/ power increase. I wonder if they can now run Spec 1 qualy map as base race map? Iirc, in the Bahrain test Honda said they were running settings they couldn't in race.

Edited by JimmyTheFox, 25 April 2019 - 15:28.


#3085 statman

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 17:03

Red Bull with the rear low downforce already tested by Gasly in China and Bahrain.

 

D5ALda-XoAAlued.jpg



#3086 Ragnar668

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 05:59

104lobd.jpg

 

Red-Bull-Formel-1-GP-Aserbaidschan-Baku-

 

D4_cUXzW4AAsXaL.jpg

 

Red-Bull-Formel-1-GP-Aserbaidschan-Baku-



#3087 Ragnar668

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 06:00

http://i65.tinypic.com/104lobd.jpg

 

(insert image doesn't work for this one)


Edited by Ragnar668, 26 April 2019 - 06:02.


#3088 A3

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 07:27

Here's the pic.

O5CbIBe.png

 

Maybe it's me, but I don't see anything different.



#3089 Ragnar668

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 07:41

Here's the pic.

O5CbIBe.png

 

Maybe it's me, but I don't see anything different.

Me neither, but I need arrows anyway

Borrowed it from technical, "slightly different" was the description



#3090 Danyy

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 11:08

I thought the update would bring qualy pace not race pace?
 
Much prefer it to be race pace.


Chandok said it is extra 10/20kw during race

#3091 Ragnar668

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 11:14

Here's the pic.

O5CbIBe.png

 

Maybe it's me, but I don't see anything different.

Again from technical

Left side: baku, right side: China

20zmk2l.jpg

Three trays. Probably used to play around with weight distribution. Maybe they have been able to slim down the car a bit and now can play around with some removable weights

33hwjyj.jpg



#3092 RobG

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 11:21

So it seems RB has even more surface/height on the outer flaps than before, while Mercedes seem to decrease the height on the outer flaps. RB now seem to be the only team to pursue the outwash principle instead op the inwash.



#3093 Danyy

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 12:11

So it seems RB has even more surface/height on the outer flaps than before, while Mercedes seem to decrease the height on the outer flaps. RB now seem to be the only team to pursue the outwash principle instead op the inwash.


Then let us hope they know what they are doing and are on to something :)

Edited by Danyy, 26 April 2019 - 12:16.


#3094 renzmann

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 14:20

Then let us hope they know what they are doing and are on to something :)

to me, it looks like the concept with the most overall df potential at least. albeit the additional drag, in the long run, it can't be a stupid thing to do. gives them a relatively high potential to unlock.



#3095 renzmann

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 16:12

can anybody say anything useful about where rbr stand in baku? i have no idea how to read fp2 :stoned:



#3096 Maxioos

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 16:13

can anybody say anything useful about where rbr stand in baku? i have no idea how to read fp2 :stoned:


I think no one can. They won't use new engine on Friday I suspect.

#3097 Ivanhoe

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 16:16

From AMuS

Honda and Renault have massively caught up with Mercedes and Ferrari over the winter. But now the two manufacturers want to consolidate first and improve the stability with the second expansion stages.
The first expansion of Honda came surprisingly early. The Japanese brought their second engine for the fourth race weekend in Azerbaijan. At Red Bull, all components of the drive unit were replaced, with Toro Rosso only the internal combustion engine to avoid a penalty.
It is said that Honda is planning three more stages during the season. The second should come in Montreal or Paul Ricard, the third in Spa and the fourth depending on the World Cup situation at the end of the year. Until then, Honda wants to have completely closed the gap to Mercedes and Ferrari.

Honda and Renault have already found massive power over the winter. The deficit is estimated at only 20 to 30 hp. However, the aggressive development work comes at a price. Honda had to change components at the fourth Grand Prix for the first time. Renault will probably make it to the next Grand Prix in Spain. At Honda, an engine failure from Daniil Kvyat led to the decision to put a consolidation step in between.

Honda's second specification is primarily aimed at securing the performance gained in the winter. "We can now drive longer in higher performance modes. We only gained a bit of maximum performance, "says Red Bull team boss Christian Horner.
This coincides with the statements of the drivers who do not expect the big power boost in Q3, but they will be able to race with more power. power. Max Verstappen hopes for a two-tenths gain.


https://www.auto-mot...ssigkeit-power/

#3098 TF110

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 18:45

I think Honda has made a good step. Going by the Toro Rosso's speed as well as RB's in fp2, they're looking pretty good. Not as fast as Ferrari (hopefully yet) but only 3 tenths away from Hamilton over a 102 second lap.



#3099 Talisman

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 18:46

I think no one can. They won't use new engine on Friday I suspect.

 

I suspect they would for calibration and mapping purposes on its first weekend.  They wouldn't want to introduce a fresh unit on Saturday morning, find massive problems and skip qualifying.



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#3100 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 18:50

Aye, they used the new PU’s todsy