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Red Bull Racing Technical Thread (RB15)


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Poll: Will the VTEC kick in? (398 member(s) have cast votes)

Can they fight for the championship?

  1. Yes (108 votes [27.14%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 27.14%

  2. No (218 votes [54.77%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 54.77%

  3. Don’t Know (72 votes [18.09%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 18.09%

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#4501 milestone 11

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 08:45

Interesting, where did you read this?


This in Autosport article,

"The resultant rise in engine revs after Verstappen went over a kerb activated a Honda protection mode and an FIA system that Autosport understands relates to how the governing body ensures driver aids are not being used.

Versappen's power cut in no way implies that Red Bull or Honda are employing a traction control-style system, but a protection mode that reduces torque when a driver suffers too much wheelspin would partially replicate the phenomenon.

Honda's system caused the initial loss of power as it cut in to avoid excessive revving damaging the engine, triggering a torque reduction when Verstappen was at full throttle.

After this, the FIA system - which is the same for all teams - filtered the engine back to full power.

Traction control has been banned in F1 since 2008.

F1's technical regulations state that no car may be equipped with a system or device that is capable of preventing the wheels from spinning under power, or of compensating for excessive torque demand by the driver."

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#4502 A3

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 10:03

Horner and jos Verstappen said this.
I watched Max's onboard too, its ture. He did a 357kph in the race early on, then something happened with his engine, the rpm never exceed 12500 and he never went above 345kph again.


Yeah I posted this in the other thread:

I followed Max's onboard for a while. He had some engine issues where he said that right before braking for turn 1 the engine suddenly had more power. Team said they saw it on the data but had no solution. He also said that a couple of times the engine failed to pick up power after turn 2 and that the MGU was not recharging correctly. I guess Honda still has some work to do with the new spec.

Also, Perez was extremely quick out of the parabolica and on the straight. Even with DRS Max barely gained on him.



#4503 Requiem84

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 10:51

This in Autosport article,

"The resultant rise in engine revs after Verstappen went over a kerb activated a Honda protection mode and an FIA system that Autosport understands relates to how the governing body ensures driver aids are not being used.

Versappen's power cut in no way implies that Red Bull or Honda are employing a traction control-style system, but a protection mode that reduces torque when a driver suffers too much wheelspin would partially replicate the phenomenon.

Honda's system caused the initial loss of power as it cut in to avoid excessive revving damaging the engine, triggering a torque reduction when Verstappen was at full throttle.

After this, the FIA system - which is the same for all teams - filtered the engine back to full power.

Traction control has been banned in F1 since 2008.

F1's technical regulations state that no car may be equipped with a system or device that is capable of preventing the wheels from spinning under power, or of compensating for excessive torque demand by the driver."


Youre quoting the Qualifying issue which is well known.

My question relates to the rev limit during the race.

#4504 milestone 11

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 11:04

Youre quoting the Qualifying issue which is well known.

My question relates to the rev limit during the race.

Possibly the same issue though. There appears to be some covert system which is trying to replicate traction control whilst remaining within the rules.



#4505 SenorSjon

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 14:21

Possibly the same issue though. There appears to be some covert system which is trying to replicate traction control whilst remaining within the rules.

 

I think it is an engine protection failsave and it activates when the wheel spins freely (when it is lifted up in the air) while under heavy acceleration. 


Edited by SenorSjon, 12 September 2019 - 14:21.


#4506 milestone 11

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 14:23

I think it is an engine protection failsave and it activates when the wheel spins freely (when it is lifted up in the air) while under heavy acceleration. 

That's so Mandy Rice-Davies.  ;)



#4507 SenorSjon

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 14:31

Who?



#4508 grunf77

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 08:16

Will we see  Suzuka special PU? :smoking:



#4509 Requiem84

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 08:33

Possibly the same issue though. There appears to be some covert system which is trying to replicate traction control whilst remaining within the rules.


In Qualifying the system kicked in after the first chicane and Verstappen lost acceleration. Why would the system kick in after Parabolica? And why would it limit revs at that specific rev number instead of cutting power like in Q?

Does not seem related based on the symptons.

#4510 jacdaniel

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 09:39

The main issue to work on is the starts. I can’t recall a single good start this season, as in gaining a place.

#4511 SenorSjon

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 09:53

At the back the others even had better starts. I still wonder how the McHonda had those blistering starts.



#4512 Requiem84

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 10:54

How are the starts of the TR's?



#4513 Ackhernar

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 06:49

In Qualifying the system kicked in after the first chicane and Verstappen lost acceleration. Why would the system kick in after Parabolica? And why would it limit revs at that specific rev number instead of cutting power like in Q?

Does not seem related based on the symptons.

It is related. The rev limiter was a race issue. Please note the several posts that speak about this and the footage provided clearly showing the imposed limiter and speed restriction. The system kicked in during the race over a kerb and could not be sorted during.



#4514 Requiem84

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 07:34

It is related. The rev limiter was a race issue. Please note the several posts that speak about this and the footage provided clearly showing the imposed limiter and speed restriction. The system kicked in during the race over a kerb and could not be sorted during.


Is this confirmed, or is this your conclusion?

#4515 Pits

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Posted Today, 09:36

So, any updates on the car for this weekend?

The seem to be strong again, hoping for a Pole for Verstappen... :clap:



#4516 Prelude

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Posted Today, 11:09

I was not impressed with their fp3 pace. I hope the car had a lot more fuel than others.


Edited by Prelude, Today, 11:10.


#4517 Pits

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Posted Today, 11:14

I was not impressed with their fp3 pace. I hope the car had a lot more fuel than others.

Me 2, that didn't look good at all.

Still, we know Verstappen can be around 1 sec faster than Albon around this track. So that should put him back in the ballpark at least.

 

Pretty surprised bij the Ferrari pace to be hounest.... :drunk:



#4518 Danyy

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Posted Today, 12:03

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#4519 Danyy

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Posted Today, 12:04

I was not impressed with their fp3 pace. I hope the car had a lot more fuel than others.


Helmut said they went wrong direction in set up and they should be there for qualifying

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#4520 search

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Posted Today, 12:24

Helmut said they went wrong direction in set up and they should be there for qualifying

they have tried something new, yes - the way I understood it, he said that they need to try something new again for Qualifying though, not that they should automatically be up there.

They can't go back to yesterday's setup because it was too hard on the tires. FP3 setup didn't work. So let's see what they come up with...


Edited by search, Today, 12:25.


#4521 Danyy

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Posted Today, 12:34

they have tried something new, yes - the way I understood it, he said that they need to try something new again for Qualifying though, not that they should automatically be up there.
They can't go back to yesterday's setup because it was too hard on the tires. FP3 setup didn't work. So let's see what they come up with...

If they had to choose between today’s or yesterday’s setup I’d choose yesterday’s. Better to be on pole and lead then have slightly better race pace on a track you won’t overtake at.

Edited by Danyy, Today, 12:36.


#4522 Ivanhoe

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Posted Today, 13:15

they have tried something new, yes - the way I understood it, he said that they need to try something new again for Qualifying though, not that they should automatically be up there.
They can't go back to yesterday's setup because it was too hard on the tires. FP3 setup didn't work. So let's see what they come up with...

If they had to try things out, why wait so long with Max in FP3, he only had 20 minutes of track time.