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Red Bull Racing Technical Thread (RB15)


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Poll: Will the VTEC kick in? (400 member(s) have cast votes)

Can they fight for the championship?

  1. Yes (108 votes [27.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 27.00%

  2. No (220 votes [55.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 55.00%

  3. Don’t Know (72 votes [18.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 18.00%

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#4651 Booky36

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Posted 03 October 2019 - 16:57

Only the Talent of Max and superior RB chassis make RBH shining , Honda gains ? reliability for sure,  hope Honda will make enough gain on engine side  to 2020, RB  would easily lose his temper about engine partner next year, too bad a tag heuer engine could have been a better bet this year !


Edited by Booky36, 03 October 2019 - 16:58.


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#4652 Grundle

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Posted 03 October 2019 - 17:55

Only the Talent of Max and superior RB chassis make RBH shining , Honda gains ? reliability for sure, hope Honda will make enough gain on engine side to 2020, RB would easily lose his temper about engine partner next year, too bad a tag heuer engine could have been a better bet this year !

Where have Red Bull been faster in the corners this year?

#4653 KevD

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Posted 03 October 2019 - 23:21

I'm pretty sure the've detuned the spec-4 engine A LOT the last couple of races. Wether the've told Max or Jos everything about their tactics, I'm not sure...I think RB want to end the season on a high to convince Max to stay a while longer. All guns blazing with relatively fresh engines, starting in Suzuka.  :stoned:



#4654 WouterF1

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Posted 04 October 2019 - 07:06

 

The goal of Honda was to reach the same level as the Mercedes engine in the last part of this year and they succeeded. Unfortunately Ferrari has made an even better engine, which nobody expects. However, Honda does its job well.
However, RBR has had a disadvantage with the new rules and has not been able to build such a good car as in previous years. They (especially Newey) now have to work very hard to build a good car again. Will they succeed? We shall see.



#4655 Cliff

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Posted 04 October 2019 - 08:46

I'm pretty sure the've detuned the spec-4 engine A LOT the last couple of races. Wether the've told Max or Jos everything about their tactics, I'm not sure...I think RB want to end the season on a high to convince Max to stay a while longer. All guns blazing with relatively fresh engines, starting in Suzuka. :stoned:



Could be true, when max asked for more power in Singapore his race engineer declined him. Not saying they didn’t have more but more in the sense they wouldn’t give him any more. Let’s hope it’s true!

#4656 SenorSjon

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Posted 04 October 2019 - 08:51

Where have Red Bull been faster in the corners this year?

 

Albon in Q1 Russia? It didn't stay on track though.  :rotfl:



#4657 metoo

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Posted 04 October 2019 - 09:20

Only the Talent of Max and superior RB chassis make RBH shining , Honda gains ? reliability for sure,  hope Honda will make enough gain on engine side  to 2020, RB  would easily lose his temper about engine partner next year, too bad a tag heuer engine could have been a better bet this year !

 

i  think you will be happy only Renault team will use this superieur engine soon, no chance any more for the others



#4658 WouterF1

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 08:27

Exclusive interview with Max: 'We've maximised our points'

https://www.verstapp...n/article/3848/

 



#4659 renzmann

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 05:45

Sooo... ruined my sleep for another joke of a qualy and race. Good stuff.

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#4660 Requiem84

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 06:58

Albon about a second a lap slower.

In Q the gap was 8 tenths. RB really lost the development push.

#4661 Kao18

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 07:10

Difficult to say with Max out imo.

I dont believe on racepace they are 1 second behind.

Such a shame we didnt get to see things played out like they should have because of Leclercs' brainfart. Woud have loved to see what Max could have done from p3.

Edited by Kao18, 13 October 2019 - 07:11.


#4662 Stephane

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 07:23

Once Albon locked 4th, I think they backed off. No need to push anymore at the timr

#4663 TF110

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 07:31

No reason to push. I agree. They consolidated 4th place and just ran their race. Shame about Max getting hit (again) by LeClerc. He had plenty of space too. I think Mexico will be better.



#4664 Laptom

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 07:44

Difficult to say with Max out imo.

I dont believe on racepace they are 1 second behind.

Such a shame we didnt get to see things played out like they should have because of Leclercs' brainfart. Woud have loved to see what Max could have done from p3.


I think the car is really by a margin slower. Albon and Gasly are not that slow as currently storing. The car is a Diva and Max can drive around it. I even think the car itself is only by a margin better than the Mc.

#4665 Kao18

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 08:00

The car is definitely not there where it needs to be but in qualifying Max left a bit on the table and in the long runs he wasnt that far of iirc. Albon not really being to happy with his race also shows he isnt extracting everything out of the car yet so there was definitely more in it this weekend imo.

I dont believe they could have fought for the win with this car but a podium didnt look completely impossible, certainly with that start. I guess Mexico should reveal more on how far they are truly behind.

#4666 renzmann

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 08:03

Nope, rbr are just slow. Some lucky races and a superb Max may hide it occasionally, but they are just too slow. Today was a typical race, not an odd one: Just look at everything that happened after the summer break. Nothing truly justified any optimism. They'll be the third team in Mexico as well.

#4667 jacdaniel

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 09:15

It’s difficult to really gauge performance with the grid penalties, first corner shenanigans, major Ferrari improvement and each track obviously been unique.

But it certainly feels like spec 4 has been a step backwards.

#4668 Wolbo

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 11:24

Nope, rbr are just slow. Some lucky races and a superb Max may hide it occasionally, but they are just too slow. Today was a typical race, not an odd one: Just look at everything that happened after the summer break. Nothing truly justified any optimism. They'll be the third team in Mexico as well.

 

Agree, RBR are simply not competitive enough. Gap in qualifying is too big and has only increased since the summer break. Sure, Max would have been closer than Albon in the race but I highly doubt he could have taken the fight to Mercedes which he was able to do in 2017 and 2018. Not looking good for the rest of the year and, more importantly, for 2020. Only positive aspect was the excellent start, best one of the year.



#4669 PedroDiCasttro

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 13:40

Not a surprise seeing Jos Verstappen pushing the team to deliver for next year. 



#4670 ExEd

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 14:41

Not a surprise seeing Jos Verstappen pushing the team to deliver for next year.


Im pretty sure he did the same last year as well

#4671 LightningMcQueen

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 14:49

Think max will have to be content at RBR until Hamilton retires.. I’d guess he has 4 seasons to wait it out.

#4672 JimmyTheFox

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 14:52

I wonder if the FIA put a stop to Red Bull and Honda pointing the waste gate pipes towards the rear wing end plates? I can only remember seeing straight pipes out the back after the summer, this must have affected the cars performance?

#4673 renzmann

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 15:50

I wonder if the FIA put a stop to Red Bull and Honda pointing the waste gate pipes towards the rear wing end plates? I can only remember seeing straight pipes out the back after the summer, this must have affected the cars performance?

Interesting point. I guess we can all agree that Ferrari must have unlocked something special, because they are amazing since the break. I'm wondering about the gap between RBR and the Mercs, though. They were almost on par before the summer, and right now it looks as though the gap is as big as at the start of the season. As far as I can tell as an outsider, RBR have been pushing updates more aggressively than Mercedes, so you kind of would expect the opposite effect. My guess is that RBR is the problem. Either their updates - despite having more hp's, which is an objective gain - are working counterproductively (the return of an older FW seems to suggest they don't know what they are doing) or they have been caught doing something naughty.

 

Anyway, hopefully RBR do know what the core problem of their design is. Maybe it's something they can't fix it with minor updates, but can be solved with the RB16.



#4674 JeePee

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:31

Positive thing for the weekend: the RB15 had it's first good start of the year. Max took a Ferrari and a Mercedes off the line. So the RB-Honda combination IS capable of this.



#4675 Requiem84

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:40

Must be the fuel!! :)



#4676 Marklar

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 20:40

Some bits from a Marko interview in AMuS

https://www.auto-mot...icklung-kosten/

- Verstappen lost 100 downforce points in the crash with Leclerc, the floor was entirely torn apart
- Marko thinks that with a normal race Verstappen could have finished 2nd behind Bottas, podium certainly was possible, but overtaking was very tough.
- 2 stops were planned from the get go for both cars
- He is impressed by Albon considering that it was his first time at Suzuka, but he has to still improve his race pace in early stages of the race
- After the fuel upgrade Marko reckons that Honda is still clearly behind over one lap, especially against Ferrari (lost 8 tenths on straights), in the race they are on par with Mercedes.
- Asked on whether Honda has already decided their future beyond 2020 this would depend on the new regulations, they'll analyze and decide once that is finalized
- He states that it is essential to reduce the cost for the engines because otherwise nobody will be left, but they cant freeze the engine development before everyone is convergening, Ferrari is way too much in front of everyone over one lap


Edited by Marklar, 14 October 2019 - 20:43.


#4677 Kao18

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 06:58

Like I said I dont think RB are that far behind on racepace (Max also left a bit on the table in qualy compared to Mercedes). Albons' racepace and result in the race wasnt the best reference.

#4678 SenorSjon

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 13:45

I've heard the car/engine was misbehaving in Q2/Q3 again? And that Verstappen requested a tow because of a high DF setting?

 

https://www.gptoday....gaat-er-wat-mis (dutch)



#4679 JimmyTheFox

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 14:19

On Japanese sites they say deployment setting for Max's Q2 run was miscalculated and ran out, was adjusted and fixed for his Q3 run.

The planned Suzuka front wing was delayed, only fins underneath the used wing (Monaco spec? According to F1tech) were improved.

Fuel upgrade brought a 13bhp improvement

Edited by JimmyTheFox, 15 October 2019 - 14:23.


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#4680 Requiem84

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 14:42

On Japanese sites they say deployment setting for Max's Q2 run was miscalculated and ran out, was adjusted and fixed for his Q3 run.

The planned Suzuka front wing was delayed, only fins underneath the used wing (Monaco spec? According to F1tech) were improved.

Fuel upgrade brought a 13bhp improvement

 

In the Friday interview, Max said that he felt a noticeable performance upgrade with the fuel. Good job with the fuel.

 

The main issue now again - really is the aero package of the car itself. 

 

The new FW rules per 2019 seem to limit the aero philosophy of RB. Instead of a strong allround car with consistent df, it now has become a kind of a diva (very sensitive to wind/circumstances), but also a Diva which lacks outright df.... 

 

There is not an easy way to fix this for 2020. RB simply is hit hard by the new FW rules. If they need a new concept for 2020 and beyond, it will take them so much time to catch up. All they can do is hope they can 'unlock their current concept'. 



#4681 ArrowsLivery

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 15:29

In the Friday interview, Max said that he felt a noticeable performance upgrade with the fuel. Good job with the fuel.

The main issue now - again - really is the aero package of the car itself.

The new FW rules per 2019 seem to limit the aero philosophy of RB. Instead of a strong allround car with consistent df, it now has become a kind of a diva (very sensitive to wind/circumstances), but also a Diva which lacks outright df....

There is not an easy way to fix this for 2020. RB simply is hit hard by the new FW rules. If they need a new concept for 2020 and beyond, it will take them so much time to catch up. All they can do is hope they can 'unlock their current concept'.


I believe they’ll have to bite the bullet and go for the outwash front wing. They should be able to beat Ferrari at their own concept with it. Inwash wing and high rake does not seem to be a winning combination.

#4682 Requiem84

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 15:34

I believe they’ll have to bite the bullet and go for the outwash front wing. They should be able to beat Ferrari at their own concept with it. Inwash wing and high rake does not seem to be a winning combination.

 

It took Ferrari a year to optimize this. 

 

It will take RB some time to make this work... as they will need to completely change the concept of the whole car. It's not only the FW they would need to redesign, but also the rest of the car as it interacts with the FW immensely. They would be on a huge learning curve to discover all benefits of this concept... 

 

And then, when they finally mastered the concept a bit, it will be the end of 2020... after which we get completely new regulations!! So they can start from scratch again. Going for a new aero concept is not a realistic option for RB now. They are locked in to what they have. 

 

If they cant make their current Aero concept work, 2020 will be another lost year. 



#4683 WouterF1

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 15:23

From this Japanese site.

" The development goal this season was to catch up with Mercedes and we've managed to reach that target
to catch up with Mercedes later this year, " commented Yasuaki Asaki.

 

https://f1-gate.com/...a/f1_52742.html



#4684 JimmyTheFox

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 18:19

Is it windy in Mexico? 😭

Thinking back Honda said the turbo with the spec 3 was upgraded with high altitude counter measures, so maybe that will help pull them closer to the front two?

#4685 JimmyTheFox

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 12:41

Honda's engine boss gave a PU briefing to the press before Suzuka

Video in Japanese ☹️

https://youtu.be/OIpCQE-de20

ICE gps power ranking:

007_o5pk01.jpg

#4686 Kao18

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 06:38

Do we have to look at this from right to left or from left to right :)

Honda should have extended the lines of the others into Second half 2019 for comparison. Ferraris' must have gone almost vertically up.

#4687 A3

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 06:58

I highly doubt the Renault line is correct. Or any competitor's for that matter.

#4688 JBJ

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 07:09

Honda's engine boss gave a PU briefing to the press before Suzuka

Video in Japanese ☹️


 

Subtitles available   :p



#4689 Danyy

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 12:40

Max-Verstappen-Red-Bull-Formel-1-GP-Mexi

Did Red Bull switch back to these exhausts that point outwards again?

#4690 Danyy

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 19:42

Well done Red Bull and Honda you really outdid yourself’s beating those Ferrari’s in qualifying. I hope you get to celebrate properly tomorrow!

#4691 Zerobyte

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 20:43

Max drove a stellar first lap, and even faster in the second lap :up: 

Now a good start and a drive away :clap:



#4692 Requiem84

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 20:43

What the hell did RB do to the car...

#4693 Heyli

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 20:44

Max drove a stellar first lap, and even faster in the second lap :up:

Now a good start and a drive away :clap:

First a good explanation to the stewards actually!



#4694 Danyy

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 21:01

First a good explanation to the stewards actually!


Let’s not take anything away from Max Red Bull or Honda, that was a masterclass breaking the dominant Ferrari power unit streak regardless of what the stewards decide! Still think the most that should happen is his last lap be deleted which still gives him pole

#4695 Danyy

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 21:30

And here it is ladies and gents ;)
https://twitter.com/...7127092224?s=21

Edited by Danyy, 26 October 2019 - 21:30.


#4696 Kao18

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 21:30

What the hell did RB do to the car...


As I mentioned before in Japan Max left something on the table in qualy and Albons (race)pace wasnt that representable. Mexico would reveal more and it did. The altitude might have helped but clearly they are not that far behind since the last race as some in here suggest. Certainly compared to Mercedes.

Edited by Kao18, 26 October 2019 - 21:38.


#4697 baddog

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 21:40

Ill take something away from him, he was dangerous and needs a slap. Great banker lap which won him pole because others set a worse banker lap but the second lap, and his attitude to it, are bad.


Edited by baddog, 26 October 2019 - 21:41.


#4698 Requiem84

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 21:40

As I mentioned before in Japan Max left something on the table in qualy and Albons (race)pace wasnt that representable. Mexico would reveal more and it did. The altitude might have helped but clearly they are not that far behind since the last race as some in here suggest. Certainly compared to Mercedes.


Mercedes have been horrible here for some time now.

Going from 0,7 behind in Suzuka to 0,3 ahead is 1 second. Max surely did not leave 1 second on the table in Suzuka?

#4699 Kao18

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 21:53

Mercedes have been horrible here for some time now.

Going from 0,7 behind in Suzuka to 0,3 ahead is 1 second. Max surely did not leave 1 second on the table in Suzuka?


Hamilton qualified third 1 tenth behind Max last year so RB definitely improved. Ferrari just improved even more in a crazy way.

I dont know how much Max left on the table in Japan but I do believe Max has about 5 tenths on Albon on qualy pace so that would have left them about 2 to 3 tenths behind Ferrari there and comparable to Mercedes.

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#4700 Zerobyte

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 06:54

Let’s not take anything away from Max Red Bull or Honda, that was a masterclass breaking the dominant Ferrari power unit streak regardless of what the stewards decide! Still think the most that should happen is his last lap be deleted which still gives him pole

 

 

An aggravated Max is very fast and maybe its even better  with that long piece of tarmac in the beginning, nice slip stream late breaking.


Edited by Zerobyte, 27 October 2019 - 12:21.