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Red Bull Racing Technical Thread (RB15)


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Poll: Will the VTEC kick in? (405 member(s) have cast votes)

Can they fight for the championship?

  1. Yes (110 votes [27.16%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 27.16%

  2. No (222 votes [54.81%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 54.81%

  3. Don’t Know (73 votes [18.02%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 18.02%

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#4801 Danyy

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 16:52

150+ laps without a hitch is a good way to begin preparations for the RB16. Same again tomorrow.

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#4802 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 16:57

^ No fireworks on tracks like Abu Drabby, that’s probably why they have to have real fireworks go off at the end to wake everybody up again :lol:

Anyway I’m hoping the real fireworks happen in 2020. Red Bull installed the infrared tyre camera’s so they can use them in the test today like Mercedes did last year. Since there will be no pointless front wing changes I’m expecting Red Bull to start next year a lot stronger.

EKdVXcdXUAAqEpU.jpg


Good stuff. I was wondering if they would do this actually, so good to see they have indeed and are not handing Merc an advantage straight away like last year. I presume Merc themselves and probably most others have done likewise?

#4803 Marklar

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 17:04

for some reason everyone was allowed to run all sort of sensors today. guess they got a bit more lenient on this for this year

#4804 Danyy

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 17:27

Yeah Red Bull must have saw something to make it worth using these tiny cameras during the weekend because they also used pilot tubes like other teams today but I don’t think other teams actually raced with cameras like Red Bull though.
C93-FF122-EA00-4-AE7-A81-D-F98-FD6-D1-CE

Edited by Danyy, 03 December 2019 - 17:37.


#4805 ARTGP

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 19:55

for some reason everyone was allowed to run all sort of sensors today. guess they got a bit more lenient on this for this year

 

Surely it's because of the new tires, and making sure we don't start 2020 like we did 2019.

 

Camera's on the Red Bull will track the shape of the tire under load. So they can put the loaded shapes in a windtunnel for better accuracy.



#4806 Danyy

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 12:51

Red Bull testing the 2020 concept wing with Albon today. Will be interesting to see if this makes it on to the RB16. Newey did say they can easily switch front wing designs if needed..

BE2509-FA-E09-F-4-D0-E-BF1-D-E7-CC2-AD7-

Edited by Danyy, 04 December 2019 - 12:56.


#4807 Danyy

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 18:16

Good to know RB16 is two weeks ahead of schedule. I know we always here this kind of talk but this time it must be different, they cannot afford to start behind. The stronger they can start the more time they can put to RB17.

https://translate.go...HC-ktFgjSKXrpGg

#4808 Requiem84

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 19:06

Good to know RB16 is two weeks ahead of schedule. I know we always here this kind of talk but this time it must be different, they cannot afford to start behind. The stronger they can start the more time they can put to RB17.

https://translate.go...HC-ktFgjSKXrpGg


Is this a copy paste of the 2018 winter by accident? ;)

#4809 Marklar

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 19:08

Bad sign: during their dominance the car wasnt finished until about 5 minutes before testing  :p



#4810 Danyy

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 19:22

Bad sign: during their dominance the car wasnt finished until about 5 minutes before testing :p

At least they are not looking for sponsors to build the car :p

Edited by Danyy, 17 December 2019 - 19:22.


#4811 Requiem84

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 19:53

I wonder whether they analysed why the car is always pretty meh out of the gates.

#4812 ARTGP

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 19:59

If RB come to Australia on the money, well that’s pretty devastating for the rest of the grid. Red Bull always seem to make the largest leaps from season start to finish. Imagine what they would achieve if they started the season on equal footing.

#4813 Danyy

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 20:01

I wonder whether they analysed why the car is always pretty meh out of the gates.


“Always” is exaggerating things a bit, regulation changes target the things they excel in. This explains it pretty well.

https://www.formula1...B0HsianTBT.html

#4814 Requiem84

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 20:53

“Always” is exaggerating things a bit, regulation changes target the things they excel in. This explains it pretty well.

https://www.formula1...B0HsianTBT.html


When was the last time they got out of the gate running?

Not even the fabulous 2013 year..

#4815 Danyy

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 21:08

2018? Two wins in the first six races equal with Mercedes and Ferrari?

#4816 Augurk

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 21:14

2018? Two wins in the first six races equal with Mercedes and Ferrari?

A great SC strategy call and a Red Bull specific track. They were not on par on speed if I recall correctly. 

 

When Red Bull take the fight to Mercedes for the championship I expect a sort of comparable situation as their other years -> starting out not exactly at the bleeding edge, but outdeveloping and being the fastest in the second half of the season. 



#4817 Danyy

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 21:16

A great SC strategy call and a Red Bull specific track. They were not on par on speed if I recall correctly. 
 
When Red Bull take the fight to Mercedes for the championship I expect a sort of comparable situation as their other years -> starting out not exactly at the bleeding edge, but outdeveloping and being the fastest in the second half of the season.


Talking about chassis, the Renault was the one not on par in 2018.

#4818 ARTGP

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 22:17

Talking about chassis, the Renault was the one not on par in 2018.

Agree. Putting things into reference, RB had equal if not better chassis all these years at the start of the season. It was the Renault being down 50-60hp that probably gives the “slow starters” narrative.

Actually I do think RB chassis has been miles ahead of anyone last season and season prior. What they were doing with a 50hp deficit is out of this world if you think about

Edited by ARTGP, 17 December 2019 - 22:20.


#4819 Ali623

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 00:23

A great SC strategy call and a Red Bull specific track. They were not on par on speed if I recall correctly.

When Red Bull take the fight to Mercedes for the championship I expect a sort of comparable situation as their other years -> starting out not exactly at the bleeding edge, but outdeveloping and being the fastest in the second half of the season.


They actually probably had the strongest race pace at the start of 2018, but were screwed over by reliability issues (and Max crashing a lot)

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#4820 Requiem84

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 06:57

The chassis was not strong ‘15, early 17 and early 19. Early 16 it was okayish.

There’s a clear trend of RB getting closer throughout the season in ALL these years.

To me it indicates RB requires on track data to validate their development, or that other teams start earlier with the design of the following years.

Whatever it is, if RB want a serious title change, they can’t wait for Austria to get on top of their chassis.

#4821 Goron3

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 09:26

Red Bull are always mighty the year after a big regulation change. 2010 and 2018 show this.

 

I imagine this is because they start with a narrow working window and work to widen it. In 2018 the chassis was absolutely superb, but held back by an awful qualifying engine.



#4822 Requiem84

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 10:38

This is really funny.

 

Helmut Marko on Autosport.com today, 18 December 2019:

 

Speaking to Red Bull-owned ServusTV this week, Red Bull's motorsport advisor Marko said: "We don't have any excuses for next year.

"For the first time, we are 14 days ahead of our normal schedule.

"We're going into the new year better than ever and with a great concept.

"Now we finally have to deliver."

 

 

 

Helmut Marko on 21 December 2017:

 


But when Red Bull corrected its trajectory, the Milton Keynes-based outfit came on song, winning three races and concluding its year strongly, a trend which mimicked previous campaigns.

"We noticed the trend that we earn more points in the second half of the season," Helmut Marko told Servus TV.

"For many years the philosophy of Adrian Newey was to present the car as late as possible, but for next year we have changed the approach.

"Now we are ahead of schedule by two weeks compared to last year," Marko revealed.


Edited by Requiem84, 18 December 2019 - 10:39.


#4823 RobG

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 11:26

Red Bull are always mighty the year after a big regulation change. 2010 and 2018 show this.

 

I imagine this is because they start with a narrow working window and work to widen it. In 2018 the chassis was absolutely superb, but held back by an awful qualifying engine.

 

Red Bull are not mighty at all after a big regulation change. You're referring to 2018 but there was no big regulation change in that year.

There was in 2017, and 2019, in both years Red Bull performed sub-par. With all the talk about a great simulator, is surprises me how it seems that Red Bull always needs a lot of track time in order to improve their chassis.



#4824 Ali623

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 11:43

Yeah Helmut is full of ****, babbling the same nonsense every year. So Red Bull were meant to be strong from the offset this year, yet it took them till Austria to even get things working properly. Expecting similar things for 2020, it's been the same every season of the hybrid era, no reason it's going to suddenly change this time.


Edited by Ali623, 18 December 2019 - 11:44.


#4825 Ivanhoe

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 12:08

This is really funny.

 

Helmut Marko on Autosport.com today, 18 December 2019:

 

 

 

"For the first time, we are 14 days ahead of our normal schedule.

"We're going into the new year better than ever and with a great concept.

"Now we finally have to deliver."

 

 

 

Helmut Marko on 21 December 2017:

Good signs then, the RB14 was a good car, probably the best Red Bull in the hybrid era.



#4826 Requiem84

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 13:44

Red Bull are not mighty at all after a big regulation change. You're referring to 2018 but there was no big regulation change in that year.

There was in 2017, and 2019, in both years Red Bull performed sub-par. With all the talk about a great simulator, is surprises me how it seems that Red Bull always needs a lot of track time in order to improve their chassis.

 

I think he is saying the year after a big regulation change. E.g., 2017 regulation change -> 2018 RB is strong. 

 

2009 regulation change, 2010 RB is strong. 

 

They might indeed be better at evolution of their concept rather than revolution... bodes well for 2021 by the way! :)



#4827 Ali623

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 13:57

I think he is saying the year after a big regulation change. E.g., 2017 regulation change -> 2018 RB is strong. 

 

2009 regulation change, 2010 RB is strong. 

 

They might indeed be better at evolution of their concept rather than revolution... bodes well for 2021 by the way! :)

 

They weren't very strong in 2015 though...



#4828 Marklar

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 14:03

Can't say that they were very strong in 2018 either, it all feels very similar overall to the sourounding years.

There isnt also a huge difference between 2009 and 2010 either.

You could argue that the Pirelli/DRS introduction in 2011 count as a revolution too, and there they were much stronger in 2011 than in 2012.



#4829 JeePee

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 14:21

I think it's good for Red Bull the tyres stay the same next year. When is the last time this has happened?



#4830 Requiem84

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 15:21

How big a step would Honda make over the winter?

 

Based on the recent article on Autosport.com, Honda actually was disappointed with the performance of their Spec 1 PU in Melbourne, as they had hoped to start the year with became Spec 2... 

 

Also with TR, it seemed to me that Honda is better at increasing performance throughout the season, rather than increasing performance in the winter. 



#4831 Vollegas

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 15:29

And the thing is how long wil they keep on developing the 2019 car throughout the year? With the up and coming rules changes in 2020, maybe untill summerbreak before all recourses will be on 2020 car. So, not much time to get things right this time around imho. Therefore, every 2 weeks help and might make the difference. This time around.  :p


Edited by Vollegas, 18 December 2019 - 15:32.


#4832 SenorSjon

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 15:37

Can't say that they were very strong in 2018 either, it all feels very similar overall to the sourounding years.

There isnt also a huge difference between 2009 and 2010 either.

You could argue that the Pirelli/DRS introduction in 2011 count as a revolution too, and there they were much stronger in 2011 than in 2012.

 

Wasn't the hot/cold blowing banned between '11 and '12? There was something up in between those years.



#4833 Reddington

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 04:00

This is really funny.

Helmut Marko on Autosport.com today, 18 December 2019:


"For the first time, we are 14 days ahead of our normal schedule.

"We're going into the new year better than ever and with a great concept.

"Now we finally have to deliver."




Helmut Marko on 21 December 2017:


The actual quote was that the engine is already on the test bench and that this was 14 days earlier than planned and didn’t happen before. But clickbait mediocre translation has everyone here talking about the chassis, which is not what Marko was referring to. That’s the only thing funny here.

#4834 Requiem84

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 06:08

The actual quote was that the engine is already on the test bench and that this was 14 days earlier than planned and didn’t happen before. But clickbait mediocre translation has everyone here talking about the chassis, which is not what Marko was referring to. That’s the only thing funny here.


What is the original quote then?

#4835 Reddington

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 06:38

What is the original quote then?


I translated above roughly. He said the new engine is on the bench now and that this was ahead of schedule by 14 days and that this hadn’t happened before. It’s a television interview, but I also saw it correctly quoted on a German lingo website. When I have time I will search for a link.

Edited by Reddington, 19 December 2019 - 06:40.


#4836 Requiem84

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 06:51

Good for keeping us sharp!

#4837 Reddington

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 07:18

Good for keeping us sharp!


Well, it is Marko, so if it has any true meaning...
Personally I do have the feeling they might actually get it right next year. I would love to see the big three up there together throughout the year. That would be a lot of fun. For RBR, it kind of needs to work next year too, with Honda on a one year contract, Max transfer free, new regs coming. The pressure is on! Good vibes up to now, but there were great vibes before the RB13 as well. (Damn, I nearly was able to erase that from memory).

#4838 RobG

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 07:50

I think he is saying the year after a big regulation change. E.g., 2017 regulation change -> 2018 RB is strong. 

 

2009 regulation change, 2010 RB is strong. 

 

They might indeed be better at evolution of their concept rather than revolution... bodes well for 2021 by the way! :)

 

They weren't very strong in 2015 though...

 

That does make more sense, but yeah 2015 wasn't really their best year either, though it's difficult to judge how much was caused by the renault engine. 

In general I am not convinced Red Bull are particularly strong in developing new cars. Only their in-year development seems to be of a high standard. Maybe that also causes the deficit in the beginning of the season as they put less effort in the new car than other teams during the season, and more in developing the current car. 


Edited by RobG, 19 December 2019 - 07:50.


#4839 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 17:06

And the thing is how long wil they keep on developing the 2019 car throughout the year? With the up and coming rules changes in 2020, maybe untill summerbreak before all recourses will be on 2020 car. So, not much time to get things right this time around imho. Therefore, every 2 weeks help and might make the difference. This time around. :p


What’s the date today over where/when you live? ;)

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#4840 JimmyTheFox

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Posted 30 December 2019 - 18:34

Looks like NHK have done another Honda special like they did for 2015 and 2016, in the preview you can see mission base at Sakura celebrating first win 😍

https://streamable.com/2tf8p

I hope somebody subs the full program as YouTube auto subs are rubbish.

#4841 Danyy

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Posted 01 January 2020 - 05:09

Happy New Years everyone :)
1_fan.jpg

#4842 WouterF1

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 15:57

 team places 1-5.
https://www.racefans...op-teams-spent/
 

 


The team says

It’s been a tough year with the calendar that’s been [long], but it’s also been a productive year, embracing a new technical partner in Honda which has laid the foundation for a solid future. We’ve seen a [budget] increase dictated by the regulation changes and the inflationary costs that go with it.



red-bull.jpg


Edited by WouterF1, 02 January 2020 - 16:57.


#4843 lio007

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 07:29

I wonder how accurate this figures are. I mean Ferrari and Mercedes have a bigger budget by 100.000.000$ and a headcount bigger by 220! That's quite a bit.
How should RBR ever compete against the 2 by not compromising current or future car projects?

Edited by lio007, 03 January 2020 - 07:30.


#4844 baddog

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 07:35

I wonder how accurate this figures are. I mean Ferrari and Mercedes have a bigger budget by 100.000.000$ and a headcount bigger by 220! That's quite a bit.
How should RBR ever compete against the 2 by not compromising current or future car projects?

 

RBR have made a fully competitive chassis every single year barring a few blips, and currently have one of the best drivers hooked in.

 

They dont need to spend more money (than currently planned) at all I think, if Honda are competitive they will seriously threaten for the WDC, and if they do it that much cheaper a few people elsewhere are going to start wondering where the money is going..


Edited by baddog, 03 January 2020 - 07:35.


#4845 Danyy

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 08:03

I wonder how accurate this figures are. I mean Ferrari and Mercedes have a bigger budget by 100.000.000$ and a headcount bigger by 220! That's quite a bit.
How should RBR ever compete against the 2 by not compromising current or future car projects?


Bodes well for 2021. RBR looks like the most efficient team.

#4846 Requiem84

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 09:53

I wonder how accurate this figures are. I mean Ferrari and Mercedes have a bigger budget by 100.000.000$ and a headcount bigger by 220! That's quite a bit.
How should RBR ever compete against the 2 by not compromising current or future car projects?


Does their headcount include the PU departments?

#4847 sgtkate

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 10:06

Love the break even logic. We broke even after our parent company gave us $65M does not mean break even...it means you lost $65M. It doesn't matter at all it's just frustrating to see needless spin.

However, RB still look to be one of the most efficient cars out there in terms of resource usage. Maybe Racing Point (old Force India definite won the award for most efficient resource usage!) can match that but I don't know how much impact Stroll's purchase has made to their spending.


Edited by sgtkate, 03 January 2020 - 10:08.


#4848 RobG

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 10:39

Love the break even logic. We broke even after our parent company gave us $65M does not mean break even...it means you lost $65M. It doesn't matter at all it's just frustrating to see needless spin.

However, RB still look to be one of the most efficient cars out there in terms of resource usage. Maybe Racing Point (old Force India definite won the award for most efficient resource usage!) can match that but I don't know how much impact Stroll's purchase has made to their spending.

 

The logic is flawed, but if you take away Red Bull's 65m, you also take away the title sponsor and a lot of sponsor surface on the car. It doesn't seem crazy that the worth of that is actually close to the 65m. 

 

Renaults 90m seems to be in a different ballpark though.



#4849 Requiem84

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 11:01

I think 65 million is a bloody brilliant Return on Investment for RB.

The exposure us so much more worth than that. 65 million is peanuts for their marketing budget.

#4850 Talisman

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 11:07

Love the break even logic. We broke even after our parent company gave us $65M does not mean break even...it means you lost $65M. It doesn't matter at all it's just frustrating to see needless spin.

However, RB still look to be one of the most efficient cars out there in terms of resource usage. Maybe Racing Point (old Force India definite won the award for most efficient resource usage!) can match that but I don't know how much impact Stroll's purchase has made to their spending.

 

No it doesn't.  If income matches expenditure the team itself has broken even.  It is Red Bull itself that has spent $65 million on the F1 team and that isn't money that has been 'lost' if you take into account brand exposure as advertising spend.

 

The budget shortfall to the top 2 is large but seems to have narrowed a bit.  I'm not that concerned for 2020 but it is concerning for 2021 as all the teams will have to develop two cars at the same time this year, inevitably the better funded and resourced teams will eke out an advantage over those who are less well supplied.  That said Ferrari does not have a good history of making good on their budget advantage over their rivals, whether it be Mercedes or Red Bull so in reality the only team RBR are handicapped against is Mercedes.