35 replies to this topic

[PayasYouRace]

With recent news that the Paul Ricard circuit's pit lane entrance may be modified it got me thinking about the old crossover arrangement the circuit used to have.

 

I've been searching around and this video is the best I can find that shows it. Here Eddie Cheever is exiting the pits via the half way exit, that in itself was a hump back bridge over a half way entrance.

 

 

However I'm searching about the internet and can't find much about it. Does anyone here have any information about it from the 1970s? Any photos, diagrams or reports from the time that may explain why it was built like that? The impression I get is that it seemed like a good idea in pre-pit stop times.

 

Any information would be appreciated and apologies if this is discussed already, buried in an existing thread.

[bigears]

This is a very interesting question as I never knew about the little bridge/hump over the pitlane.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=zUkzbDk6O4k

 

During the 1975 Grand Prix, at 5:27, you can see a Dunlop style bridge (similar to Le Mans or Donington Park)

 

Also you can see the exit of the hump on the left at 11:24.

 

Finally at the 1983 Grand Prix, at 6:14, you can see the Armco going off and under the bridge.

 

[bigears]

 

You can see Jean Alesi exiting the pits at 27:16 but the camera is facing towards the pitlane exit so you can't see the hump a lot.

[inox]

The hump/bridge used to be in a middle of pits. There was a secondary access to pits underneath the bridge. The idea was that pit area could be divided to two sections. So e.g. after the race you could park all the cars in class A to pit lane section 1 and then start a class B race immediately using pit lane section 2. Particularly in the old days, when there was no pit line speed limit, it was probably quite useful to have two separated pit sections. It is also possible that during the "golden era" of F1, pre-qualifying teams have been separated to latter part of the paddock.

[Parkesi]

I am not able to place pics today but here is some Information regarding the old pit lay-out of Paul Ricard:

if you check the French GPs (1971/1975/1978) you`ll find pictures in www.motorsportimages.com.

Comic Michel Vaillant, "Defi au Paul Ricard", the cover drawing incl. the pit lane entrances.

The book "Circuit Paul Ricard" by Francois Chevalier, ETAI Edition, France MIGHT have some pictures

but since I do not possess the book it is just a guess.   

[PayasYouRace]

 

Also you can see the exit of the hump on the left at 11:24.

 

 

That's the main pit exit.

 

 

You can see Jean Alesi exiting the pits at 27:16 but the camera is facing towards the pitlane exit so you can't see the hump a lot.

 

Jean definitely uses the entire pitlane there. I suspect that by 1990 with pit stops being a regular occurence that the use of the crossover had been abandoned.

[PayasYouRace]

I am not able to place pics today but here is some Information regarding the old pit lay-out of Paul Ricard:

if you check the French GPs (1971/1975/1978) you`ll find pictures in www.motorsportimages.com.

Comic Michel Vaillant, "Defi au Paul Ricard", the cover drawing incl. the pit lane entrances.

The book "Circuit Paul Ricard" by Francois Chevalier, ETAI Edition, France MIGHT have some pictures

but since I do not possess the book it is just a guess.   

 

This photo of Andretti in the Lotus shows it as clearly as I've seen so far.

 

https://www.motorspo...1978&is_popup=1

 

The Dunlop advert is not so much part of the bridge but an advert placed in front of it. You can see the lane that Cheever is driving down in the video I posted in the OP.

 

Edit: Thanks for the motorsport images link. I've found a few shots with the crossover in the background.

 

It's quite visible in this shot from 1985 https://www.motorspo...grand prix 1985

 

Interestingly, by 1987, there were cones blocking the secondary entry, so perhaps they stopped using it in 1986 when they shortened the course? https://www.motorspo...grand prix 1987

[Tim Murray]

I’ve had a look at the report in Autosport of the first big meeting at the circuit (for 2-litre sports cars) in April 1970, and the reports in Autosport and Motor Sport on the first French GP there in 1971. There’s no mention in them of anything unusual about the pit lane. In his reflections on the race in Motor Sport DSJ was fairly uncomplimentary about this new flat and featureless circuit, listing a number of things he didn’t like about it, but he didn’t say anything about the pit lane.

[inox]

That Michel Vaillant comic has superb details indeed. Just see how well it has documented the hump too. On the first 3 pages, it appears 4 times, always viewed from different perspective. 

 

https://picclick.fr/...3509606930.html

 

The aerial shot on the first page gives pretty good view of the crossover section. The details such as traffic arrangements through the pit building are very accurate. I have "Circuit Paul Ricard 20 Ans" book and it has somewhat similar aerial shot taken further down the pit straight with the hump on the foreground. 

 

 

[inox]

The hump/bridge used to be in a middle of pits. There was a secondary access to pits underneath the bridge. The idea was that pit area could be divided to two sections. So e.g. after the race you could park all the cars in class A to pit lane section 1 and then start a class B race immediately using pit lane section 2. Particularly in the old days, when there was no pit line speed limit, it was probably quite useful to have two separated pit sections. It is also possible that during the "golden era" of F1, pre-qualifying teams have been separated to latter part of the paddock.

 

Above may be partially false information, especially for F1. Looking at the current pit building from Google Earth, there are 12 pit boxes on both sides of the location of demolished crossover bridge. So if the boxes were about as wide on the old days too, half of the grid could not have used the hump bridge at all. On the Michel Vaillant comic there are F1 cars on the latter half too, and more interestingly there is a passenger car entering the pits under the hump bridge. The secondary entrance may have been used at least by safety car after the start. I wonder if hump was used only in practice? If they used it also in the race, that would probably mean half of the grid used different pit entry and exit.

[inox]

Maybe the idea was just to divide pit lane to two parts so that speeds in pit lane would be lower. After all, the circuit was famous from its safety systems.

[bigears]

Found another video clip of the overpass:

https://youtu.be/-_dMqClnrQY

[bigears]

The overpass in the background?

https://www.facebook...2696716/?type=3

Danny Ongais:
https://www.facebook...05903531&type=3

Edited by bigears, 28 January 2019 - 20:18.

[Michael Ferner]

I dimly recall some sort of trouble with the bridge in the pits, either with sticking skirts (which would place it in the '79/'80 range), or with cars bottoming out (maybe the Ligier with Citroën suspension, was that '83?). Sorry, can't be more specific.

[inox]

Although the bridge was demolished years ago, its legacy still lives in the pit area. I think the pit building was build diagonally against the pit straight primarily because of the twin pit lane system with crossover bridge.

[bigears]

Although the bridge was demolished years ago, its legacy still lives in the pit area. I think the pit building was build diagonally against the pit straight primarily because of the twin pit lane system with crossover bridge.

Now I realised there two pit exits. One is with just a downhill ramp and the other is like going up and down over a bridge.

Now the access under the bridge, where does it goes and is it for access for the mechanics leaving the grid before the race starts? Or is there another purpose?

[Viryfan]

Renault used to have their own building in Paul Ricard where Renault engined team (Lotus,Williams,Ligier) used to work away from eyes so they might've had their own pit exit.

[chr1s]

Slightly off topic but still Paul Ricard related, anyone know the reason for the dashed white lines down the centre of the track like a regular road?

[bigears]

Slightly off topic but still Paul Ricard related, anyone know the reason for the dashed white lines down the centre of the track like a regular road?

Drag racing? I recall seeing an old photo I saw on the Internet of drag racing along the main straight.

[ANF]

Some more shots of it from different angles:


at 4:31 and 5:23 and 12:05 and 13:17



at 9:02

[inox]

https://www.gettyima...photo/160704118  (image details)

https://media.gettyi...ure-id160704118  (larger image)

 

Here is a nice shot of Paul Ricard's old twin pit lane system. It is quite evident from the picture that half of the F1 grid were using different entry and exit.

 

Benefits of the system were of course lower speeds & less traffic at the pit lanes. It is not clear why they abandoned it, but getting two cars at the same time to "hump" bridge must have been far from optimal. 

Edited by inox, 31 January 2019 - 18:05.

[PayasYouRace]

The layout of the fast lanes of the pit lane certainly suggests that it was effectively two separate pit lanes with the middle being a sort of Gasoline Alley paddock access in the middle.

I’d guess it fell out of favour in the mid 80s. You can see in those pictures that the pits were built on the old principle of having a barrier on the work side of the pit lane too, what we would consider American style today. Those little strips of Armco with gaps giving access to the garages. Those must have been removed when it became fashionable to have garages with direct access to the pit lane as we see today on European style circuits.

[bigears]

https://www.gettyima...photo/160704118 (image details)
https://media.gettyi...ure-id160704118 (larger image)

Those photos are perfect for me. Makes perfect sense now. It is basically two pits entries with the bridge as a pit exit.

[Arjan de Roos]

 

[inox]

 

 

This Jackie Stewart video was interesting. First he mated a racing car and a woman, and then the two pit lanes. Now we know it was allowed to run from one to another.

[inox]

Slightly off topic but still Paul Ricard related, anyone know the reason for the dashed white lines down the centre of the track like a regular road?

 

Drag racing? I recall seeing an old photo I saw on the Internet of drag racing along the main straight.

 

Dashed white lines were all around the circuit. I think Paul just wanted it to look like a ordinary road where previous French Grand Prix's were traditionally held. If you look at the first part of the circuit with main straight and following winding road (up until the twisted turning point) and then again the Mistral straight, those sections really looked like ordinary roads. I remember reading somewhere the Ricard wanted to prove he can build good roads, so good that they can even fulfill demands of racing.

[PayasYouRace]

 

 

Rather annoying that the film is sped up and makes it look like he's driving a fan car with 3 tonnes of downforce.

[Gary C]

That Jackie Stewart film doesn't look sped up at all.

[LittleChris]

No way that's sped up. It's a typically nervous 70's, little downforce, single seater ( As all racing cars should be, though preferably on  a real French racing circuit  )

[Gary C]

.....and don't forget that Derek Gardner designed the Tyrrells around Jackie who liked the car slightly 'nervous'.

[inox]

In that 1973 video, Jackie is lapping about 1:00 at the shortest variation of track (3.025 km). That would mean average speed of about 180 kph.

 

For a comparison, a longer and faster version (3.813 km) was used in 1990 French GP. Mansell's pole time was 1:04.402 (213.1 kph) and fastest lap in the race 1:08.012 (201.8 kph)

 

 

[inox]

In that 1973 video, Jackie is lapping about 1:00 at the shortest variation of track (3.025 km). That would mean average speed of about 180 kph.

 

For a comparison, a longer and faster version (3.813 km) was used in 1990 French GP. Mansell's pole time was 1:04.402 (213.1 kph) and fastest lap in the race 1:08.012 (201.8 kph)

 

Perhaps comparison to 1973 French GP is better. Stewart's pole time on long circuit (5.809 km) with full Mistral straight was 1:48.37 (193.0 kph)

 

In this light, the short circuit lap time in the video feels a bit faster than one would assume. But then again, the long circuit contains also a twisty turning point section.

[PayasYouRace]

It looks too fast. Perhaps FOM should take note when they attempt to make the cameras show the speed of the cars better this year. Though it probably doesn't help that the engine sound is completely out of sync.

 

Compared to Patrese in 1990, Jackie doesn't appear to lose a lot of time in a car that should be much slower, and is carrying a monstrosity of a camera too.

 

[nmansellfan]

The onboard of JYS is sped up about 30%. He covers the ground from the turn in to Signes to the start line in 35 seconds, and Patrese covered the same in 38 seconds. The circuit was the same between these points in '90 as it was in '73. In the '73 race, the leaders cover the same distance in about 48-49 seconds (timed from the broadcast TV footage).

[PayasYouRace]

 

Here's a clip from 1987. When Piquet pits at about 1:30, he uses the first pit entrance, and then drives through the entire pit lane, avoiding where the overpass is. The overpass also appears to be barricaded. So it's fair to say they had definitely stopped using it by then.

[Parkesi]

If it is still of interest: YouTube / 1973 Paul Ricard 6 Hours / 2:30 there are several shots from top of pits which show

the split entrance / bridge & tunnel of pit lane. Regards, Andreas