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Williams Technical Thread (FW42)


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#1801 NotAPineapple

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 20:52

F1 cars??  Some examples would be nice to see.

https://www.autospor...ning-overweight

https://www.motorspo...-884972/884972/



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#1802 tormave

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 21:08

F1 cars??  Some examples would be nice to see.

 

Raikkonen's Ferrari in 2014. The only way to balance the car was so much front ballast, that the car was several kg over the weight limit.



#1803 Beri

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 06:06

Raikkonen's Ferrari in 2014. The only way to balance the car was so much front ballast, that the car was several kg over the weight limit.


In essence you're saying the car wasn't over weight, but the ballast made it. So it's not an valid example.

#1804 PayasYouRace

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 07:58

In essence you're saying the car wasn't over weight, but the ballast made it. So it's not an valid example.

 

That's a perfectly valid example of how an F1 car can end up overweight. The ballast is there to get the weight distribution correct.



#1805 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 09:02

Plenty of cars were overweight in 2014. Merc was overweight at the beginning of the 2016 season.

 

But it seems a bit less likely to be massively overweight at the start of this season, when nothing is particularly heavier than last season (save for the driver+seat having to weigh 80kg).



#1806 tghik

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 09:09

That's a perfectly valid example of how an F1 car can end up overweight. The ballast is there to get the weight distribution correct.

 

If there was weight distribution problem then they'd have problem with over/under steer and with balance. There was no indication unless I've missed something.

 

Bahrain is a different kind of track, will they struggle more or less ?



#1807 SenorSjon

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 09:27

Going 2-3 seconds of the pace with one of the best engines indicates a host of problems. If you have 10kg to much in the back, you perhaps need 10 kg to balance the front out as per the weight distribution rules. And if that is the minium, you need even more to balance it out to correct under/oversteer. So a 10 kg overweight rear can mean a total of 25kg added weight. That is a lot.



#1808 GiorgioF1

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 10:17

Going 2-3 seconds of the pace with one of the best engines indicates a host of problems. If you have 10kg to much in the back, you perhaps need 10 kg to balance the front out as per the weight distribution rules. And if that is the minium, you need even more to balance it out to correct under/oversteer. So a 10 kg overweight rear can mean a total of 25kg added weight. That is a lot.

 

Not really. It could easily be an effect of the insufficeint downforce on their car.

So far the only source of the overweight car is Scott Mitchell from the podcast and it seems that's only his guess more than anything. So far no other source (AMuS, Hughes etc) reported such thing.

Seeing how they werent able to work on their performance (downforce) last year (and firing Dirk De Beer) its likely they didnt start their season with the downforce levels even close to what the rest of the field have brought to testing.



#1809 Clrnc

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 15:46

Going 2-3 seconds of the pace with one of the best engines indicates a host of problems. If you have 10kg to much in the back, you perhaps need 10 kg to balance the front out as per the weight distribution rules. And if that is the minium, you need even more to balance it out to correct under/oversteer. So a 10 kg overweight rear can mean a total of 25kg added weight. That is a lot.

It is shocking and even for a top team it is hard to recover. This season is a sure complete write off and testing session for them. 



#1810 SenorSjon

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 15:50

Just like last year when 'focussing early on 2019 to have a head start'. That worked out brilliantly. No wonder Stroll Sr. and SMP were not amused. Their money was spend on 2018 instead of 2017. And yet, it didn't work.



#1811 7MGTEsup

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 16:23

Claiming that an F1 team can produce an overweight car is really gullible. Mass is taken in consideration from scratch when the 3D models of the parts are made. it's not like teams just blindly turn aluminium, titanium, magnesium and carbon into parts then put them together and say uh oh we overshot it.. if you don't know the Williams factory then watch Nat Geo's "MagaFactories: Williams F1" just to judge if such processes can allow the birth of a fat car...

 

I think it's gullible to think that professional teams don't make mistakes and have to re design parts...... illegal parts, let alone the car not coming in at the minimum weight.



#1812 tghik

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 16:24

It is shocking and even for a top team it is hard to recover. This season is a sure complete write off and testing session for them. 

 

Too early to write off this season. Melbourne is a specific track, let's see how the car reacts in Bahrain.



#1813 JustNotFastEnough

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 10:27

Williams is a mess and we must accept this. The car is almost 4 seconds off Mercedes. That's almost a different formula, with the same engine, lubricants and fuel. If Williams is 3+ seconds off on a track like Bahrain, then a Mercedes B-team tie up is their only logical choice. That car has many problems, it's a complete dogs breakfast if you ask me.



#1814 JordanIreland

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 10:59

Williams haven't built a championship winning car since 1997 !!!! Came close in 2003, but by and large, have been a midfield team and now seem to be stuck in the back.

 

Its going to be difficult for Williams to recover unless the 2021 rules go in their favour. Time will tell.



#1815 DrProzac

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 17:30

So apparently the aero data from both cars doesn't match on the same setup.. 



#1816 cromofo

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 18:28

So apparently the aero data from both cars doesn't match on the same setup.. 

Not surprising considering the state of the team and specifically the aero department 



#1817 ElectricBoogie

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 22:21

Not surprising considering the state of the team and specifically the aero department 

I'm not so sure a difference would be in the aero. They screw two identical cars together, there should not be different data coming from aero discrepancies.
I would rather think there is an issue in the suspension somewhere. Maybe the controls.



#1818 NoForumForOldPole

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 22:48

All goodies go to GR while RK is fed leftovers?

Edited by NoForumForOldPole, 29 March 2019 - 22:49.


#1819 metz

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 09:51

Nonsense... ):



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#1820 Muppetmad

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 09:57

To paraphrase Hanlon's razor: don't attribute to malice that which is adequately (and candidly) explained by incompetence. It's a disturbing revelation, but one which is entirely in keeping with how things have gone with Williams so far this season.


Edited by Muppetmad, 30 March 2019 - 09:57.


#1821 tghik

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 11:22

Nonsense... ):

I agree...but sometimes you still have this doubt left. The sensible thing would be to swap the cars for the next GP (if no updates will be introduced) ? Would they ? Maybe by solving the problem with Kubica's car they'd also find things that would improve the concept altogether. Just saying.

 

Another possibility is to make Latifi run both cars with exactly the same setup during his testing day.


Edited by tghik, 30 March 2019 - 12:26.


#1822 DrProzac

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 12:05

All goodies go to GR while RK is fed leftovers?

Nah, I think Kubica would speak out about this. 

 

Maybe Kubica's car has some damage they didn't identify, though it seems it might have been the same in Australia (though he had a different setup and they thought it was the problem, now the setups are identical). Maybe some faulty parts on it. Maybe some problem with the chassis, which would be really bad.

 

Anyway currently they have two cars which on the same setup have different balance and pace. As if they didn't have enough problems  :|



#1823 Domi

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 13:09

some positives after fp3, both drivers on the same pace, I heard on tv coverage Kubica got new floor for this session so hopefully they found the issue with the car


Edited by Domi, 30 March 2019 - 13:09.


#1824 ElectricBoogie

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 16:35

Much closer in Q1, Might that be KUB pulling out more or may his car have been "fixed"?

No new parts at all, you'd expect them to at least find some improvements on setup.



#1825 Domi

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 16:37

Kubica in interview saying he is happy about the result, because  issues with his car were not resolved

 

he seems very frustrated about car not  being well prepared


Edited by Domi, 30 March 2019 - 16:40.


#1826 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 14:22

looks like vibrations caused Vettel's car to fail in a spectacular way. Is it related to the new rules? I think I heard Renault as well had some component stress problems..



#1827 Paco

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 20:26

looks like vibrations caused Vettel's car to fail in a spectacular way. Is it related to the new rules? I think I heard Renault as well had some component stress problems..

 

Nope.  Pushing things as far as possible now the grid is closing up, every little bit needs to be lighter, smaller, more stressed to eek out as much speed as possible.  Always a delicate balance making things last long enough but not tooo long that it slows the car down. 



#1828 MadYarpen

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 09:16

From this article:

https://www.motorspo...kubica-just-yet

The discrepancies between the cars were revealed as an 8 per cent difference in aero balance front/rear under braking despite the same settings. Kubica’s car aero balance migrated much further forwards than did Russell’s, making it more of an oversteering handful between turn-in and apex. There could be many reasons for this, but it suggests a difference in torsional stiffness between the chassis. Again, the hurried build of the cars may have played its part in this. It may be significant that in post-race testing at Bahrain, Russell – in Kubica’s chassis – was actually slightly slower than Kubica. At the time of writing the discrepancy between the two cars had still not been fully understood.

 

I think this is quite a lot in F1, isn't it?


Edited by MadYarpen, 12 April 2019 - 09:16.


#1829 Little Leaf

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 09:50

So any signs of improvement here?



#1830 cravenciak

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 08:12

Well, the gap between drivers is marginal, so we can assume they're both squeezing the maximum of the package they have. Plus the cooling opening at the end of engine cover we've seen in Australia and Bahrain is gone, MAYBE they solved some issues on that matter.

 

Australia & Bahrain

1vtjrg.jpg

China

2f7jo8.jpg


Edited by cravenciak, 13 April 2019 - 08:29.


#1831 cromofo

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 09:39

Car balance seems to be very susceptible to track temperatures and conditions. Pirelli changing the pressures wasn't of help either. All in all, they seem to be improving race after race, getting closer and closer to the rest of the grid.  :up:



#1832 DrProzac

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 10:43

I think this is quite a lot in F1, isn't it?

8% shift of CoP location is huge, I think. This also must affect tire temperature and degradation management, which also affects the mechanical grip/balance with a cascade effect.. 
 

Plus the cooling opening at the end of engine cover we've seen in Australia and Bahrain is gone, MAYBE they solved some issues on that matter.

I think it's colder in China. Plus now they know how good or bad the car's cooling is, so they may be less conservative (it didn't cost them much, they're last anyway)

Edited by DrProzac, 13 April 2019 - 10:44.


#1833 bargeboard

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 11:15

Well, the gap between drivers is marginal, so we can assume they're both squeezing the maximum of the package they have. Plus the cooling opening at the end of engine cover we've seen in Australia and Bahrain is gone, MAYBE they solved some issues on that matter.

Australia & Bahrain
1vtjrg.jpg
China
2f7jo8.jpg


That looks much, much better.

#1834 Victor

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 16:17

Gap to the worst of the rest was much smaller in China

Australia: Russell +1.276 - Kubica +2.983

Bahrain: Russell +1.542 - Kubica +1.582

China: Russell +0.961 - Kubica +0.989

Difference between Kubica and Russell is also diminishing:

Australia: +1,707

Bahrain: +0.04

China: +0.028



#1835 TomNokoe

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 16:21

I am wondering how productive it is to be introducing upgrades to chassis they know are defective. Perhaps it doesn't make a difference, who knows.

I suspect they will turn up to Barcelona with two new chassis and some healthy upgrades.

Edited by TomNokoe, 14 April 2019 - 16:22.


#1836 PayasYouRace

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 16:44

They’re probably getting on top of what they have so far, and it’s natural to get the biggest improvement first.

#1837 Maxioos

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 17:55

Yeah, I was not disappointed today at all. On times during the race they where not slowest on track (of course tires dependent etc. By still). Couple more races and they could join back midfield if they keep this improvement rate. It was already visible during the practice sessions they came little closer.

It's not expected they will have same improvement Sauber had last year, but not every race starting/finishing p19/20 I can see happen later this season. That alone would be already a achievement looking at where they come from. But first it still has to happen. And, it has. They can't be clear last at end season, than it's going to look very dark for the team imo.

#1838 Paco

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 01:43

I am wondering how productive it is to be introducing upgrades to chassis they know are defective. Perhaps it doesn't make a difference, who knows.

I suspect they will turn up to Barcelona with two new chassis and some healthy upgrades.

 

There is no proof in Kubica statement that that 8% statement is correct any longer (probably never was and was simply a mistake and not taking certain factors into consideration) and that there is anything wrong with his chassis.  He appears to be suffering the same issue as Gasly in being able to put the power down without wheel spin.  Hes just suffering from traction from his right foot.


Edited by Paco, 15 April 2019 - 01:45.


#1839 DrProzac

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 07:36

https://www.youtube....h?v=QMVB2hYOOWM

 

Such an unstable car.



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#1840 Dalton007

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 09:10

Kubica complaining about the lack of race pace. For most of the race, George was lapping a second quicker than Robert.

 

https://www.autospor...er-trying-start


Edited by Dalton007, 16 April 2019 - 09:11.


#1841 thuGG

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 09:23

Kubica complaining about the lack of race pace. For most of the race, George was lapping a second quicker than Robert.

 

https://www.autospor...er-trying-start

 

If by most you mean 20% then yes:

czasy-Russell-Kubica.jpg



#1842 GiorgioF1

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 10:00

Rofl "I have no race pace" meanwhile a 2nd stint on hards quicker than Russells who killed his tyres way earlier. Also 1.41.7 on the last lap...



#1843 JordanIreland

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 15:44

Any news on possible updates to the FW42 by the Spanish Grand Prix? Or is the car so inherently flawed that no updates are planned? 



#1844 TomNokoe

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 14:31

Seems like Williams are the only team who cannot bring a low-downforce package to Baku.

https://twitter.com/...5802609664?s=19

#1845 Paco

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 14:29

You can't bring low downforce when you have no downforce to begin with let alone mechanical grip..  

 

THEY NEED TO LOAD UP DOWNFORCE just to get around a corner making them a brick dragging around the circuit..



#1846 MaGiK

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 17:53

You realise that TomNokoe is talking about low drag wing...

#1847 empe

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 19:10

You realise that TomNokoe is talking about low drag wing...


you do realise that talking to this person and/or to a brick wall is an exercise in futility

#1848 GoldenEra

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 21:02

Any news on possible updates to the FW42 by the Spanish Grand Prix? Or is the car so inherently flawed that no updates are planned?


Sort of relevant - https://twitter.com/...761138792779776

#1849 MadYarpen

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 21:24

This guy: https://twitter.com/f1talks asked the team about the updates and according to what they answered no big update is planned, they expect to bring small updates constantly.

 

Which I think is disappointing considering how bad the car is.



#1850 Pete_f1

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 17:16

I was going to make a tongue in cheek comment about exciting updates but having read the last two posts I will save my fingers.