1199 replies to this topic

[FLB]

Not as good as his 1993 win, though. JGR's first, too, IIRC.

 

... 'though that race was also quite remarkable for the fact that Earnhardt, Sr. flat took out Al Unser, Jr., for the same reason that Rusty Wallace took Martin Brundle out of an IROC race at Charlotte in 1990...

[Branislav]

Men... Nascar needs strong personality driver, like was Dale Sr., Jeff Gordon... Needs some story some rivalry that they had.

Edited by Branislav, 19 November 2019 - 20:20.

[Myrvold]

Just realized that 20 years ago I wouldn't miss a single race of a NASCAR (Winston Cup) season. Today I just glanced this thread to check who the champ is.

Well done Mr. France

Somewhat agreed. I fell out of love with NASCAR when the Chase arrived. Probably due to being a Jeff Gordon fan... I got back in to it in 2011/2012 when I was able to watch every CUP, xFinityBuschWide, Truck and K&N East/West race.

Fell off again with the playoff, and now only watch enough races to do my "duty" as a deaf-interpreter so I keep access to an amazing streaming service that shows tonnes of motorsport (including WRX, F1, IndyCar, SuperCars and WEC).

[Risil]

We had an amazing and vibrant NASCAR following on here about 10 years ago (I think it started when Montoya moved over) but it's only a few hardy souls left now.

[jonpollak]

Yeah... Office Linebacker is sorely missed round here.

Jp

[whitewaterMkII]

We had an amazing and vibrant NASCAR following on here about 10 years ago (I think it started when Montoya moved over) but it's only a few hardy souls left now.

It's not only here, NASCAR's final race is down 51% since 2015.

[jonpollak]

Thanks for that article Double D.
I loved the picture attached to it ....
What looks like actual Busch family joy.



Jp

[whitewaterMkII]

Thanks for that article Double D.
I loved the picture attached to it ....
What looks like actual Busch family joy.



Jp

 

happy and sad here, jd wasn't there for it...

Edited by whitewaterMkII, 20 November 2019 - 06:25.

[John B]

Since the finale ratings (and attendance didn't look full) and overall buzz are not delivering anything along the lines of a super bowl type event I don't know what they have lose by disposing of the one race/playoff format.

Agree with Branislav above re rivalries, which goes back to Johnson's dominant era. I think the playoffs have killed potential rivalries by mixing things up with all the resets every year. You could have Truex v. Busch over several years, but it's so convoluted how you get to the final and then it comes down to a pit stop/restart/track position lottery.

[FLB]

John B, that't an excellent point... and one I never thought of. One of the reasons why NASCAR took off in the mid-1990s was the rivalry between Earnhardt, Sr. and Jeff Gordon. It took years to build.

 

Now, they keep hitting the reset button every year... so the rivalries are never built.

Edited by FLB, 20 November 2019 - 13:30.

[OvDrone]

It's crazy that somehow the Cup Champion would be the same one, even if the results would fully be converted into the old system.

 

 

And I find it fascinatingly ironic that with the old system, they would have had a better and closer finale. Who would've thought?

 

*sarcastic wink*

Edited by OvDrone, 20 November 2019 - 14:00.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

F1 was better?

I personally watched Brazilian GP even after the championship was decided, but couldn't be bothered to watch Homestead where the "championship" was decided.  So, for me personally, most definitely F1 was better.

[Risil]

Since the finale ratings (and attendance didn't look full) and overall buzz are not delivering anything along the lines of a super bowl type event I don't know what they have lose by disposing of the one race/playoff format.

Agree with Branislav above re rivalries, which goes back to Johnson's dominant era. I think the playoffs have killed potential rivalries by mixing things up with all the resets every year. You could have Truex v. Busch over several years, but it's so convoluted how you get to the final and then it comes down to a pit stop/restart/track position lottery.

That's a brilliant point JB. I've not been able to put my finger on why I've felt so averse lately to putting the time into getting to know the ins and outs of NASCAR but that might be something to do with it. It's a trick of memory. We remember the thrilling denouements and climaxes but the meaning is in what happens before.

[Branislav]

I personally watched Brazilian GP even after the championship was decided, but couldn't be bothered to watch Homestead where the "championship" was decided.  So, for me personally, most definitely F1 was better.

I watched Brazil too. And yes the race in Sao Paulo was exciting. And Miami I didn't watched probably because Keselowski was out.

 

But here's the point and you maybe will not believe me. After the first F1 race in Australia I said (not here) that at the end of a season finish order will be exactly this: 1. Hamilton 2. Bottas 3. Verstappen. And in Nascar after first race in Daytona I couldn't say a thing

[Myrvold]

It's crazy that somehow the Cup Champion would be the same one, even if the results would fully be converted into the old system.

 

 

And I find it fascinatingly ironic that with the old system, they would have had a better and closer finale. Who would've thought?

 

*sarcastic wink*

 

I wonder how it would've been with the old point system, with 175(180)(or 180(185) or 185(190) points for a win.

Also, are that normal championship including stage points (which is another thing I find rather idiotic).

 

I've always found it funny that the 70's-2010 system had points down to 54th even though there was never more than 43 starters(?)

[OvDrone]

Since the Chase / Playoffs / 'that Matt Kenseth rule' came into it's insipid existence, these would've been the overall Cup Champs if you'd straight-up convert all season results into the old points system.

 

2004 - Jeff Gordon

2005 - Tony Stewart

2006 - Jimmie Johnson

2007 - Jeff Gordon

2008 - Carl Edwards

2009 - Jimmie Johnson

2010 - Kevin Harvick

2011 - Carl Edwards

2012 - Brad Keselowski

2013 - Jimmie Johnson

2014 - Jeff Gordon

2015 - Kevin Harvick

2016 - Kevin Harvick

2017 - Martin Truex Jr

2018 - Kyle Busch

2019 - Kyle Busch

 

So we'd have Jeff Gordon as a 7x Cup Champion, Jimmie Johnson and Kevin Harvick as 3x Cup Champions; Carl Edwards, Tony Stewart and Kyle Busch as 2x Cup Champions; Brad Keselowski and Martin Truex Jr as 1x Cup Champions. No Kurt.

And this is obviously the best system and correct timeline 'cause Joey Logano has no championships.

 

At first I actually tried my damn best to like and hype up the Playoff, but since last year, it's wearing me down. You spend countless hours 36 times a year just for the whole Championship to be decided in the last 15 minutes or so. And then the 4th best driver overall takes it.

Why watch Kansas? Or Darlington? Or Watkins Glen? Who the F cares, man. You got one life.

 

JB has a wonderful point, and I have to somewhat counter Bran's one. Yes, we all knew after Melbourne, who'd more than likely win the championship. Just like at Losail. Or even St. Pete. As much as Motorsport wants to be this most ideally entropic of sports, it's still predictable as all hell.

And that's fine. We all knew that 'the Big 3' would be in the finale, bar some complete clusterf**k.

 

Instead of having the immense storyline of Harvick vs Truex vs Kyle Busch as a titanic battle of the ages - The Big 3, we now have jumbled up, static memories of weird pitstops, crazy strategies, insane 'math', unfortunate haphazards and bs cautions.

 

We don't have rivalries anymore. All we have now are the drivers versus the system itself. It's destined for ruin.

[Yhamm]

https://www.autospor...0-nascar-season

 

 

Seven-time NASCAR champion and Hendrick Motorsports driver Jimmie Johnson will retire from the Cup Series at the conclusion of the 2020 season.

[messy]

I like Johnson, but it’s time isn’t it. 
 

Only Harvick of that generation still plowing on mercilessly. I honestly don’t think that guy ages. It’s probably all the fighting.

[TF110]

I'm glad Kyle won. I was pulling for him or Denny. I'm a Toyota fan first, but Kyle is my preferred driver of JGR and Toyota because he's different. Some might call him whiny or a crybaby, but he tells it like it is. He was subdued during the win because he had a cold or so I read. Hopefully there's another good title fight next season. This chase format is a joke still and Kyle would have won it regardless so it's at least fitting.

[jonpollak]

Uh oh....


Jp

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

I watched Brazil too. And yes the race in Sao Paulo was exciting. And Miami I didn't watched probably because Keselowski was out.

 

But here's the point and you maybe will not believe me. After the first F1 race in Australia I said (not here) that at the end of a season finish order will be exactly this: 1. Hamilton 2. Bottas 3. Verstappen. And in Nascar after first race in Daytona I couldn't say a thing

 

its perfectly understandable that after Daytona you couldn't say a thing, because thats how the LOTTERY functions. Nobody can say a thing. Racing is not a lottery. Racing used to have much deeper meaning than just the random 4 guys battling it(what exactly?) out to the last lap. Naturally it happened only in 1992. And it was awesome. Because it just happened by itself. It was like a racing miracle that just happens once in a lifetime. And we felt blessed because we witnessed a miracle. Now, we have a SYSTEM that is programmed to give us 1992 over and over again. And it means nothing anymore. Nothing. Because we know thats how this system functions (to give us 4 equal contenders in the last round) and it is not special anymore. Actually it is BORING, and UNBEARABLE. Afterall, TV figures do not lie. NASCAR is going down. Down the drain...

[StraightEdge]

Uh oh....


Jp

Brain Bonner who drove in Indy 500 and few Indycar races in 92 and 93?

[FLB]

Brain Bonner who drove in Indy 500 and few Indycar races in 92 and 93?

And IMSA as well.

[Branislav]

its perfectly understandable that after Daytona you couldn't say a thing, because thats how the LOTTERY functions. Nobody can say a thing. Racing is not a lottery. Racing used to have much deeper meaning than just the random 4 guys battling it(what exactly?) out to the last lap. Naturally it happened only in 1992. And it was awesome. Because it just happened by itself. It was like a racing miracle that just happens once in a lifetime. And we felt blessed because we witnessed a miracle. Now, we have a SYSTEM that is programmed to give us 1992 over and over again. And it means nothing anymore. Nothing. Because we know thats how this system functions (to give us 4 equal contenders in the last round) and it is not special anymore. Actually it is BORING, and UNBEARABLE. Afterall, TV figures do not lie. NASCAR is going down. Down the drain...

Like all motorsports who went down in United States, and Nascar is still #1 among them. Like you said TV figures do not lie. Nascar is on top, then Indy etc.

 

As of Daytona I couldn't say a thing after second race in Atlanta too. Let me see who won there OMG my driver Brad Keselowski but did I seen him in final 4 I just hoped for I didn't knew like I knew in F1 first three (and Brad didn't make it). F1 is too predictable, unfortunately. We get some show when is all over. **** that.

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

Like all motorsports who went down in United States, and Nascar is still #1 among them. Like you said TV figures do not lie. Nascar is on top, then Indy etc.

 

As of Daytona I couldn't say a thing after second race in Atlanta too. Let me see who won there OMG my driver Brad Keselowski but did I seen him in final 4 I just hoped for I didn't knew like I knew in F1 first three (and Brad didn't make it). F1 is too predictable, unfortunately. We get some show when is all over. **** that.

 

the fact that you cannot remember your favorite driver's wins in a season sums up modern NASCAR nicely, where 90% of the season does not matter at all.

Edited by BiggestBuddyLazierFan, 24 November 2019 - 21:57.

[Branislav]

the fact that you cannot remember your favorite driver's wins in a season sums up modern NASCAR nicely, where 90% of the season does not matter at all.

 

"TV figures do not lie." you said that BiggestBuddyLazierFan  

[Branislav]

What's this?

 

Four teams penalized for manipulating results of Homestead-Miami finale

https://www.nascar.c...100000009233522

[StraightEdge]

Can you add WWE title holder to Kyle Busch resume? He beat R-Truth for WWE 24/7 title on WWE RAW

[StraightEdge]

Kyle Busch wins 24/7 championship

[StraightEdge]

Now Kyle Busch is a former 24/7 champion after R-Truth rolled him up to win the title back

[Tsarwash]

I don't know that much about Nascar, but I know that in the past some people have been moaning about the manipulation of races via unneeded yellow flags. In that context, it might not be the most wise thing to try to associate with WWE. Obviously I'm not suggesting that the championship was fixed, but creating a link between the two sports might not be the best way to shrug off people talking about these things.

[Atreiu]

I don't think the core fans mind the association at all.

[Branislav]

Kyle Busch, just bad actor.

[chrisj]

At least NASCAR understands they're in the entertainment business. 

[FLB]

Martin Truex loses his crew chief:

 

https://racer.com/20...ay-from-nascar/

[eibyyz]

Martin Truex loses his crew chief:

 

https://racer.com/20...ay-from-nascar/

 

Crying shame.  He has a dry way of speaking that I liked.  I didn't know he was Canadian--he said he wants to move 'back home' to the Canadian Rockies.  

 

Look to see a lot more people involved in NA$CAR bailing, both from overwork and the cost/benefit ratio becoming unfavorable.

Edited by eibyyz, 10 December 2019 - 15:31.

[Branislav]

New car

 

[Branislav]

“The brakes are way bigger on this thing – it stops really good, where our brakes now are way smaller as we try to take weight out of them,” Logano said. “So trying to get used to that feel will be one thing.

“Some of the steering feeling is way different, but that’s still one of the things we want to adjust. When the car gets loose with this Next Gen car, it doesn’t come back until the driver steers the car back – it doesn’t fix itself. And that puts it more in the driver’s hands. And I like that piece.

“It’s going to be challenging, but I think you’ll see more mistakes on the race track which makes, in my opinion, better racing, and more passing opportunities.”

Logano added that due to a bigger wheel, a wider tire and differences in the body, “your natural reactions are wrong. And you have to be able to adapt quick when you feel something instead of trying to let the car fix itself.”

 

This is good

[phrank]

I will really miss those steel wheels, it was something that defined NASCAR for me

[bargeboard]

Martin Truex loses his crew chief:

 

https://racer.com/20...ay-from-nascar/

 

Pearn and MTJ had that Gordon-Evernham/Johnson-Knaus sort of connection. I have lots of respect for a guy who could keep winning and winning, but hangs it up because he wants to see his kids grow up. Hopefully Gibbs can find a replacement for Truex with the same chemistry.

[Branislav]

Who watch this

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=i2VrbPwt1DA

[John B]

New car looks good from the front. Will withhold overall judgement until seeing the individual makes styles - from what I gather the car as tested still had a mostly generic body. It's been a long time coming since 2007.

 

Other major recent news (perhaps a 2020 thread in order?) was the Cup sponsor is now a 4-way partnership with GEICO, Coke, Busch, and Xfinity. 

[StraightEdge]

Legendary Junior Johnson passed away. He was 88

[messy]

Good age but still sad, legend.

Fifty wins but never higher than sixth in the points, one for the bizarre stats thread.

[paulb]

Watching the 1981 Daytona 500. Great race so far, 100 laps in.

[Risil]

Who's winning? What was the racing at Daytona like pre-plates?

[paulb]

Bobby Allison has been leading the most laps. Buddy Baker stalking in second after Neil Bonnett dropped out.

Its been great clean racing with lots of mostly single car drafting.

[Risil]

Buddy Baker sounds like a jazz drummer's name. And it sounds a bit like Michigan then?

[FLB]

Buddy Baker sounds like a jazz drummer's name. And it sounds a bit like Michigan then?

 

I've always thought black and silver made a good match.

[Jim Thurman]

Buddy Baker sounds like a jazz drummer's name. 

 

Are you thinking of Chet Rich?