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Mercedes-AMG Technical Thread (W10 EQ Power+)


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#3901 uraharakisuke

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 16:06

Some serious sandbagging on the straights then ?

Could be Ferrari just have such an engine advantage that they go even S3. We need S3 comparisons on their long runs to see if engine modes played a part.



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#3902 Lowest

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 16:08

Could be Ferrari just have such an engine advantage that they go even S3. We need S3 comparisons on their long runs to see if engine modes played a part.


I meant compared to BOT

#3903 TomNokoe

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 16:09

Didnt Hamilton requested the low downforce one after his first run because the track has enough grip? Certainly he started on high downforce then, did he change to low downforce after his first run though?


He was surely referring to the different front wings? Or can you change a rear wing in 10-15 mins?

#3904 uraharakisuke

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 16:10

I meant compared to BOT

oops my bad mate.



#3905 kernel

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 16:11

Some serious sandbagging on the straights then ?

 

Well, they do generally run lower engine settings than Ferrari on Fridays.

 

By lower DF front wing, I meant that if they put on a lower downforce RW, they have to strip out some downforce on the front as well to keep the car balanced.



#3906 beachdrifter

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 16:24

Team reaction 

 

https://www.crash.ne...s-baku-hamilton

 

Not where they need to be on single lap pace, looking better on long run pace. Reminds me a lot of Bahrain so far.



#3907 kernel

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 16:30

Team reaction 

 

https://www.crash.ne...s-baku-hamilton

 

Not where they need to be on single lap pace, looking better on long run pace. Reminds me a lot of Bahrain so far.

 

Given the teams were robbed of FP1, I can understand the lack of balance. Given we're behind schedule on track evolution, FP3 will be more representative of overall pace than FP2. Merc definitely has some work to do to better dial-in the car in the twisty bits, but it's looking encouraging so far.



#3908 kernel

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 17:32

Lewis seems to believe Merc is resigned to the second row tomorrow...

 

 

“FP2 went really well, I was feeling good out there and I was more comfortable in the car than I was last year,” said Hamilton, who ended up winning the 2018 Azerbaijan race after teammate Valtteri Bottas' late puncture.

“However, the Ferraris are clearly very quick and it looks like they're quite a bit ahead of us, so we'll need to investigate to see where we are losing time compared to them.

“It's unlikely that we will find seven tenths over night, but we'll do everything we can to push the car in the right direction.”

 

https://www.motorspo...t-baku/4376390/



#3909 Unicast

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 18:22

Lewis seems to believe Merc is resigned to the second row tomorrow...

 

 

https://www.motorspo...t-baku/4376390/

 

Those 7th tenths can come from many different variables and I don't buy it for one second.

I think Merc will still be the car to beat and I hope Ferrari can come very close and put pressure on them right from qualy and than in the race.



#3910 SonGoku

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 18:23

Well, people also said that about Bahrain before quali....


Edited by SonGoku, 26 April 2019 - 18:24.


#3911 uraharakisuke

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 18:36

Yeah I see this being similar to Bahrain. Ferrari have such a monster engine they're going even in sector 3 with Mercedes even with a much bigger rear wing.



#3912 beachdrifter

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 19:00

Merc engineers said they increased downforce throughout FP2, but it didn't make them any faster in S2. (amus)

#3913 monolulu

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 19:03

From Allison
"This isn't an easy track at the best of times, but made more complex by losing the whole of FP1," said Allison. "Nevertheless, FP2 went smoothly; we managed to get a good look at both tyres and a quick check of rear wing level as well with Lewis.

"We're not where we need to be lap for the single lap work, but looked reasonably paced for the longer runs. So we have a bit of work to do overnight to tidy up the handling to give the drivers the confidence to really smash it around the lap and then hopefully we'll have a good weekend."

#3914 w1Y

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 19:28

looks like its going to be tough but this year there is a pattern or merc turning the wick up more on sat.

#3915 uraharakisuke

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 19:53

Merc engineers said they increased downforce throughout FP2, but it didn't make them any faster in S2. (amus)

How strange. Balance and tyre related?



#3916 beachdrifter

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 20:10

How strange. Balance and tyre related?

 

The information is a bit conflicting. One site claims Merc loses most of their time in the slow corners. Another claims they lose it in the power-limited corners. And then there's Bottas talking about track evolution and how that should help them with the tyres as the weekend progresses.

 

So it's probably a combination of what you said in addition to Merc being limited in FP2 again engine-wise as they were at the last two races.

 

At least we can rule out a lack of downforce as the culprit.


Edited by beachdrifter, 26 April 2019 - 20:19.


#3917 rodlamas

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 20:31

Merc engineers said they increased downforce throughout FP2, but it didn't make them any faster in S2. (amus)

Increasing downforce is useless in Baku. Most of the laptime in the corners will come from track evolution over the weekend. This will never be a track like Barcelona on which there is racing all the time so the asphalt is kind of saturated. Last year Bottas took super softs for more than 40 laps and was still scoring fastest lap after fastest lap.

 

Best thing is prepare yourself for the drag race craziness this will be with those mammoth wings. Low drag/low downforce is the way to go. It even helps you at starting the race with less fuel and thus being faster early on.



#3918 beachdrifter

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 21:55

Increasing downforce is useless in Baku. 

 

Depends on what your starting point is. It's still a compromise, so it's not surprising that Merc would compare: 

 

Low-drag packages are common at Baku, although the compromise is with the amount of downforce produced - as traction is still needed on the exit of the myriad 90-degree corners and in the castle section later in the lap.

 

 

https://www.autospor...nforce-packages


Edited by beachdrifter, 26 April 2019 - 21:58.


#3919 beachdrifter

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 22:29

FWIW, last season Merc also trailed Ferrari by 7 tenths in FP2, and they weren't able to claw it all back on Saturday. Lewis at least got within 2 tenths, but that was it. 


Edited by beachdrifter, 26 April 2019 - 22:29.


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#3920 Goron3

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 23:17

FWIW, last season Merc also trailed Ferrari by 7 tenths in FP2, and they weren't able to claw it all back on Saturday. Lewis at least got within 2 tenths, but that was it. 

Didn't that also include Kimi being two tenths faster than Seb until the final corner before binning it? If I recall, Seb's lap was quite poor.

 

I expect tomorrow to be close. It's a 100s lap; 3-4 tenths between them wouldn't be surprising.



#3921 OO7

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 01:29

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Edited by OO7, 27 April 2019 - 01:42.


#3922 OO7

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 01:43

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#3923 monolulu

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 09:53

Merc running more rear wing today.

#3924 OO7

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 10:02

Merc running more rear wing today.

I've just tuned into FP3 monolulu so haven't seen the car yet, so I'll keep an eye out.



#3925 OO7

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 10:21

Merc running more rear wing today.

Yep, you're right. :up:



#3926 beachdrifter

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 11:01

Gap to Ferrari more than doubled in FP3 to 1.5 seconds.



#3927 kernel

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 11:04

Haven’t seen FP3, but it looks like Merc’s usual FP3 “bold” screw-up. That or they were not really pushing hard on those flying laps at the end.

#3928 peroa

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 11:06

high df is the wrong way to go about this track, look at TR or RPoint

#3929 rog

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 11:11

Mercedes is lost over one lap, no way they can beat Ferrari with this engine disadvantage.



#3930 kernel

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 11:14

Mercedes is lost over one lap, no way they can beat Ferrari with this engine disadvantage.


Baku is not really about engines though. All about corner speed, given there are 20 of them.

Merc may have wanted to try high df wing given lack of FP1? Surely they were more competitive with the lower df front wing.

#3931 Mercstar

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 11:17

I think the higher DF wing is the way to go, the key to unlocking speed around here is getting those fickle Pirelli's in the window, so in that regard higher DF is more beneficial. Not too worried about FP3 results, Merc clearly aren't pushing the PU, expect it to be a lot closer come quali, although beating Ferrari may be a stretch. 


Edited by Mercstar, 27 April 2019 - 11:18.


#3932 geralt

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 11:18

Eh, Hamilton was looking pretty good on the mediums, it's only on the soft that he  started to struggle. I reckon they just need to figure out how to get the best of the soft and they'll be right in the mix. 



#3933 uraharakisuke

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 11:20

Qualy will be damage limitation. Merc seem better in race pace. Hope Lewis qualifies with a lower downforce set up.



#3934 beachdrifter

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 11:25

Biggest FP3 gap to Ferrari this season had been in Bahrain. That was less than 8 tenths.


Edited by beachdrifter, 27 April 2019 - 11:32.


#3935 beachdrifter

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 11:28

Shovlin: "In qualifying we usually get closer to the Ferrari."



#3936 w1Y

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 11:29

Merc may not have been pushing as much but that gap is not going to completely close.

Edited by w1Y, 27 April 2019 - 11:29.


#3937 robefc

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 11:44

Eh, Hamilton was looking pretty good on the mediums, it's only on the soft that he  started to struggle. I reckon they just need to figure out how to get the best of the soft and they'll be right in the mix. 

 

That comment would be more reassuing after FP2 than FP3 though!



#3938 Jordan44

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 11:48

Hard to explain what we've seen this weekend. Sector 2 is more about mechanical grip than it is downforce. Hard to guess how Ferrari have improved so much from China. Probably down to the tyres again. Yawn.

If there's anything, Ferrari's monster wing just proves a dominant engine can help solve aerodynamic problems.

Edited by Jordan44, 27 April 2019 - 11:52.


#3939 OO7

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 12:02

Hard to explain what we've seen this weekend. Sector 2 is more about mechanical grip than it is downforce. Hard to guess how Ferrari have improved so much from China. Probably down to the tyres again. Yawn.

If there's anything, Ferrari's monster wing just proves a dominant engine can help solve aerodynamic problems.

Merc looked like they ran more rear wing than Ferrari today.  I think they were just pacing themselves especially when comparing their time to teams other than The Reds.



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#3940 Timstr11

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 12:38

With strong track evolution, a low downforce setup could be better for the race is my feeling.

It's not handy for one lap pace though, given the difficulty with generating temperature.



#3941 Jordan44

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 12:43

https://twitter.com/...3822248960?s=19

Some damage to Lewis's car in FP3. No specifics.

Edited by Jordan44, 27 April 2019 - 12:43.


#3942 Jordan44

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 13:09

Found on Twitter this suggestion why Ferrari are going to be fast all season on tracks where slow corners lead onto fast straights:

 

"Ferrari set up with a soft rear suspension. They then set up a lot of negative camber into the rear tyres. When the car squats under acceleration, the camber flattens out/pulls the wheels upright. This creates more surface contact area therefore more grip. Mercedes set up hard because of low rake. This is because they compress their aero through the floor and along all the vains on the barge boards and the floor, limiting the amount of camber they can run. This is also why Merc like lower pressures in the tyres because they can squid the tyre under acceleration creating more contract area. When the FIA up the pressures it benefits everyone but Merc"



#3943 kernel

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 13:15

Found on Twitter this suggestion why Ferrari are going to be fast all season on tracks where slow corners lead onto fast straights:

 

"Ferrari set up with a soft rear suspension. They then set up a lot of negative camber into the rear tyres. When the car squats under acceleration, the camber flattens out/pulls the wheels upright. This creates more surface contact area therefore more grip. Mercedes set up hard because of low rake. This is because they compress their aero through the floor and along all the vains on the barge boards and the floor, limiting the amount of camber they can run. This is also why Merc like lower pressures in the tyres because they can squid the tyre under acceleration creating more contract area. When the FIA up the pressures it benefits everyone but Merc"

 

That would make sense.

 

Didn't they increase the pressures in China (either thru wknd or versus last year), though? 



#3944 Jordan44

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 13:19

That would make sense.
 
Didn't they increase the pressures in China (either thru wknd or versus last year), though?


Possibly, but with the track layout it wasn't enough to compromise them.

From what I see, Merc should be competitive at the majority of tracks this season at aero tracks. Tracks like Sochi, Bahrain, Baku, etc. with 90 degree corners followed by straights might be more of an issue

#3945 rodlamas

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 14:57

Qualy will be damage limitation. Merc seem better in race pace. Hope Lewis qualifies with a lower downforce set up.

Say again?



#3946 beachdrifter

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 15:06

Just amazing!

 

Leclerc crashes, they send Vettel out first (no tow which according to Vettel is worth up to half a second), and Merc manages to lock out the front row.

 

Baku living up to its reputation already in quali! 



#3947 kernel

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 15:07

Lol

Mopesquad BTFO again

 

Please.

 

Toto just said to Ted that the fallen temps (due to the KUB/LEC incidents dragging the session on) and Leclerc's mistake basically handed them a shot at pole and 1-2. Basically implying that they didn't think they would easily have gotten pole or a 1-2.



#3948 P123

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 15:07

Temps dropped, which seemed to help Merc over Ferrari.

#3949 Jordan44

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 15:07

Lower track temperatures suit Mercedes. They like lower tyre pressures, it helps them with mechanical grip. In a way the Leclerc incident which delayed the session and allowed the track to cool down was a blessing for more reason than one

Edited by Jordan44, 27 April 2019 - 15:08.


#3950 JonnyJ

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 15:25

https://twitter.com/...1768068096?s=19

Vettel to Merc drivers: "Did you do a dummy start or did you just stop?"
Hamilton. "What? we just dummied you." Track position is what it was all about in the end of Baku qualifying.

They wanted ferrari to end up with no tow from them...