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Alfa Romeo Racing Technical Thread (C38)


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#101 Tsarwash

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 19:27

It’s kind of a shame that BMW kept the Sauber name but Alfa Romeo won’t.

As much as I miss an old name disappearing, it doesn’t really matter that much I guess. Peter Sauber has retired and sold his stake in the team a couple of years ago. If this keeps the team healthy and able to compete, it’s a good thing. Teams change names all the time after all.

So if nobody with the surname Ferrari was involved with that motor racing team, you would be ok with them changing the name ?



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#102 DS27

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 19:41

 

It's a fair cop. How about "a company that's nearly always been devoted to producing interesting as opposed to mundane cars."

 

 

 

:)   Don't get me wrong, I love Alfa's, having a history of Alfasuds, 33's, 156's and now the latest beauty the Quadrafoglio.

 

I just find that having a sense of humour helps Alfa ownership!



#103 Nathan

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 19:51

So if nobody with the surname Ferrari was involved with that motor racing team, you would be ok with them changing the name ?

 

It wouldn't change because the Ferrari name has actual value - hence why most would care.  Sauber has very little brand power and as such the only people that care are the sort of folks that get mad when some ho-hum building made 100 years ago gets slated to be demolished for some contemporary architecture.

 

Teams are named after their founders for a reason, to represent that person/family.  It's their train set.  I don't see why new owners should have to yield to the previous owners past doings. Why can't they insert their own pride of ownership?



#104 Louis Mr. F1

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 20:23

On another note, does that mean the car will feature a completely revamped livery this season?

 

That's my wish, the 2018 livery didn't look well to me.



#105 Clatter

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 21:05

25 years of history gone with the exclusion of the Sauber name. Its good to see the Alfa name on the grid, but I cant help feeling sad.

 


History is not wiped out like that.

#106 Victor

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 21:15

Actually it is not 100% clear for me that Sauber is going to disappear. All I read is that the team name will now be Alfa Romeo Racing. What about the car? Will it be a Sauber or an Alfa Romeo?



#107 PayasYouRace

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 21:19

The chassis name must be part of the team name. So if the team name is Alfa Romeo Racing, the car cannot be called a Sauber.

 

It's why Racing Point still had to have Force India in their team name because the cars were still Force Indias even after the team changed owners.



#108 RacingGreen

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 21:22

 Alfa Romeo is still alive. 

 

I know Alfa Romeo came to tea last night. I made some pasta and he had a glass of wine, nice bloke but a bit of a flirt to the wife .....

 

Actually Alfa Romeo isn't alive, it is a soulless capitalist construct to allow several people to invest in a joint business venture with limited liability. It is Peter Sauber who has a personality, lives, breaths and is alive, retired but alive. 

 

Sad day to see the corporate world again triumph over the individual, particularly as Peter kept his team, that he is proud enough to have put his name on, for so long. 

 

Alfa Romeo come, Alfa Romeo go, Alfa Romeo return, Alfa Romeo go again, Alfa Romeo come again, etc, etc...Not really a record to be proud of. Peter did better.

Edited by RacingGreen, 01 February 2019 - 21:24.


#109 Fatgadget

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 21:31

Great to see a car maker going the full nine yards. 

 

All the best to them, need more big name car makers to join.

The only niggle Alfa is but a Ferrari underling these days is it not?


Edited by Fatgadget, 01 February 2019 - 21:34.


#110 PayasYouRace

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 21:42

 

I know Alfa Romeo came to tea last night. I made some pasta and he had a glass of wine, nice bloke but a bit of a flirt to the wife .....

 

Actually Alfa Romeo isn't alive, it is a soulless capitalist construct to allow several people to invest in a joint business venture with limited liability. It is Peter Sauber who has a personality, lives, breaths and is alive, retired but alive. 

 

Sad day to see the corporate world again triumph over the individual, particularly as Peter kept his team, that he is proud enough to have put his name on, for so long. 

 

Alfa Romeo come, Alfa Romeo go, Alfa Romeo return, Alfa Romeo go again, Alfa Romeo come again, etc, etc...Not really a record to be proud of. Peter did better.

 

 

Peter Sauber comes. Peter Sauber sells team. Peter Sauber buys back team. Peter Sauber sells team again.

 

I don't see that much difference.



#111 Tsarwash

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 21:43

 

Teams are named after their founders for a reason, to represent that person/family.  It's their train set.  I don't see why new owners should have to yield to the previous owners past doings. Why can't they insert their own pride of ownership?

As happened when McLaren were renamed Dennis … oh wait. 



#112 Mohican

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 21:53

Amazing amount of negativity here. Team owners do what they consider best for their team’s future and ability to compete.

Peter Sauber & Monisha Kaltenborn ran the team into the ground for years, and then sold it in 2016 when faced with imminent bankruptcy. They can make no claim to kid glove treatment.

Current owners have invested considerable funds rebuilding the team, in recruiting Vasseur and then letting him run operations. But of course the owners have made their analysis of the industry and have acted upon it.

Not their fault that Bernie & Nosley screwed up the business model of the teams and that Todt allowed it to happen.

This change reflects what is necessary to survive; stand by and watch the others fight to survive as well.

#113 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 21:57

We've lost iconic names before, I don't see the big deal. Thats the game.

#114 Trust

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 21:57

For me, this is highly positive looking especially from the historical side. Also the livery should be much nicer this year.



#115 Clatter

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 22:16

Not their fault that Bernie & Nosley screwed up the business model of the teams and that Todt allowed it to happen.

 


As Mosely was the man in charge when the business model was being screwed up, what could Todt have done to stop it?

#116 DrF

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 22:24

So what livery will they have?

#117 Fatgadget

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 22:28

As Mosely was the man in charge when the business model was being screwed up, what could Todt have done to stop it?

Balestre.Mosley.Todt. .FIA..Same difference!


Edited by Fatgadget, 01 February 2019 - 22:31.


#118 noikeee

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 22:36

To me, Sauber stands for the little team who were about to go bankrupt any day for years. I'm astonished so many people can be butthurt about the name or the uninspired livery going to the F1 history books.


We're old enough to remember the cool as hell team of Frentzen-Wendlinger, with a cool as hell dark grey Mercedes scheme, fighting for points immediately on their debut.

Or the Heidfeld-Kubica team briefly almost fighting for the championship.

#119 taz

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 22:42

So what livery will they have?

 

I expect more red for Alfa Romeo, so maybe the rumours about a Ferrari livery overhaul could the even more possible now
 



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#120 PlatenGlass

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 22:52

So what livery will they have?

I see the traditional Alfa Romeo livery as Marlboro red and white. With Andrea De Cesaris driving.

#121 BertoC

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 23:12

Eventually FIAT will get tired of funding another team and the Sauber name will be back. Again.



#122 Danyy

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 23:21

Fiat apparently putting 100 million € into this team raising the budget to 250 mill makes this team a contender with Toro Rosso for 4th place

#123 Fatgadget

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 23:23

Eventually FIAT will get tired of funding another team and the Sauber name will be back. Again.

Other than Ferrari Renault Honda  and Mercedes F1 names mean bugger-all I imagine. Those names are just too big  to be faffed around with like Lotus for example. Mclaren and Williams I reckon its only a matter of time before the inevitable.



#124 Clatter

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 23:24

Balestre.Mosley.Todt. .FIA..Same difference!

 


Not really. Whether you like Todt or not, I don't believe he is corrupt, unlike the first 2. Most of the problems stem from Moseley giving F1 away on the cheap. I think his payout was probably bigger than the FIA recieved.

#125 kumo7

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 23:54

We've lost iconic names before, I don't see the big deal. Thats the game.

 

 

I am not sad for Sauber, but neither cheered that Alfa name is back on the grid.

 

This is as fake as recent Lotus saga. 

 

this is about FIAT making more money.

 

 

 

Terrible thing is that this Alfa Romeo name on the grid now, is diminishing the true name value of Afla Romeo.

Like everyone say, Alfa Romeo is a Ferrari-B or even Ferrari-C team, which originally was the other way round.

 

Ha never the less this is how it goes.

 

Formula One will be bought by Agag in near future and will be running E cars.



#126 RacingGreen

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 23:58

Peter Sauber comes. Peter Sauber sells team. Peter Sauber buys back team. Peter Sauber sells team again.

 

I don't see that much difference.

 

You and I obviously see the World differently.

 

In a way though I'm sort of glad that the Sauber name is going, as that was the name of Peter Sauber's team and he has retired. It isn't really Sauber without him just like Lotus a couple of years ago wasn't really Lotus as Colin Chapman wasn't running it. I suppose you could even argue that McLaren isn't really McLaren without Bruce (or even Ron) and Ferrari isn't Ferrari without il Commendatore. Maybe it's time to get rid of all those old names. 

 

....Mercédès Jellinek died on February 23, 1929.



#127 HP

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 00:02

 

I know Alfa Romeo came to tea last night. I made some pasta and he had a glass of wine, nice bloke but a bit of a flirt to the wife .....

 

Actually Alfa Romeo isn't alive, it is a soulless capitalist construct to allow several people to invest in a joint business venture with limited liability. It is Peter Sauber who has a personality, lives, breaths and is alive, retired but alive. 

 

Sad day to see the corporate world again triumph over the individual, particularly as Peter kept his team, that he is proud enough to have put his name on, for so long. 

 

Alfa Romeo come, Alfa Romeo go, Alfa Romeo return, Alfa Romeo go again, Alfa Romeo come again, etc, etc...Not really a record to be proud of. Peter did better.

 

Even corporations are made up of people.



#128 HP

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 00:14

Does this mean they will be leaving Switzerland? Seems odd to keep it there so far away from the centre of racing

If things work out for Renault (Enstone and Viry-Châtillon) and even Mercedes, why shouldn't it work for Switzerland/Italy? Distances are closer, plus Sauber/Ferrari worked alright as did BMW/Sauber. Never mind that Switzerland isn't part of the EU and Sauber made things work. Other teams will have that before them with Brexit looming on the horizont.



#129 SCUDmissile

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 00:35

Sauber has been an iconic name in Motorsport and it's a shame it'll be gone but for me that team ceased being Sauber when Peter left the team.

That nonsense over pay drivers with Monisha etc was a stain on the reputation etc.

Now it's a different entity. Who knows, maybe the name will come back when Alfa Romeo or whatever leave.

#130 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 01:08

We're old enough to remember the cool as hell team of Frentzen-Wendlinger, with a cool as hell dark grey Mercedes scheme, fighting for points immediately on their debut.

Or the Heidfeld-Kubica team briefly almost fighting for the championship.

The former was cool as hell. I suppose when Formula 1 was still cool to a large degree.

The latter? About as cool as paint drying. BMW led Sauber was as bland and corporate as you can get. Kubica had talent obviously but that's about as cool as it got.

#131 chrisj

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 01:20

This is a team that is finally well managed, is gaining investment $$$ to better compete and has an exciting future -- and people are bitching about the name change? I hope they turn in some giant-killing performances this year. 



#132 Fatgadget

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 01:51

^

In a sentence I reckon you have nailed the nub of morden F1.or rather what is expected of it. F! and its fans don like change. Not only that,they hanker for  the good old bad days where real racing drivers had hairy chests and fixed their own cars during pit stops while smoking a fag and sipping a beer!

Anyway! Best of happenings to Sauber given their trials and tribulations and living hand to mouth  past decade or so. Now with a manufacturer behind them no more financial worries. And lets not kid ourselves. F1 is about having very deep pockets.



#133 Myrvold

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 02:09

If things work out for Renault (Enstone and Viry-Châtillon) and even Mercedes, why shouldn't it work for Switzerland/Italy? Distances are closer, plus Sauber/Ferrari worked alright as did BMW/Sauber. Never mind that Switzerland isn't part of the EU and Sauber made things work. Other teams will have that before them with Brexit looming on the horizont.

The small difference is that Switzerland is in Schengen and EFTA. The UK is currently heading towards a complete "out".



#134 PeterScandlyn

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 04:23

History is not wiped out like that.

 

No, as the release notes 'since 1910......'



#135 PeterScandlyn

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 04:29

As Mosely was the man in charge when the business model was being screwed up, what could Todt have done to stop it?

 

What he COULD have done and what he HAS done amount to the same thing.

 

Just like, okay I know I'm OT here, the announcement by Liberty of supporting gambling in F1.

 

Nary a peep......



#136 PeterScandlyn

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 04:31

I see the traditional Alfa Romeo livery as Marlboro red and white. With Andrea De Cesaris driving.

 

 

Uh oh....

 

I can see Mission Winnow getting more screen time.....



#137 kumo7

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 04:32

This is a team that is finally well managed, is gaining investment $$$ to better compete and has an exciting future -- and people are bitching about the name change? I hope they turn in some giant-killing performances this year. 

 

Well the opinion here is, that they will not. Corporate strategy will not allow Alfa Romeo to beat Ferrari.

They are selling the image that it might, and even Kimi sold his soul.

 

Chrysler-FIAT want its price class to be maintained on the track, not the other way round. FERRARI > Alfa Romeo.

 

SO Alfa Romeo will not kill giant.



#138 PeterScandlyn

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 04:32

Not really. Whether you like Todt or not, I don't believe he is corrupt, unlike the first 2. Most of the problems stem from Moseley giving F1 away on the cheap. I think his payout was probably bigger than the FIA recieved.

 

More apathetic then corrupt.



#139 CoolBreeze

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 04:57

Give it a few days/weeks, and everyone will forgot this even happened. 



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#140 PayasYouRace

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 07:58

We're old enough to remember the cool as hell team of Frentzen-Wendlinger, with a cool as hell dark grey Mercedes scheme, fighting for points immediately on their debut.

Or the Heidfeld-Kubica team briefly almost fighting for the championship.

 

Or as we call it in the trade, "black".



#141 Mohican

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 08:27

Fiat apparently putting 100 million € into this team raising the budget to 250 mill makes this team a contender with Toro Rosso for 4th place


Oh, yes ? And “management and ownership remains unchanged and independent” ?

From where do you have that info ?

#142 DrF

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 08:39

I'm hoping for lots of red, edged with white and dark green.

As for a name. Would Red Bull Racing have had quite a much success of they were still called Stewart Grand Prix?

If the name change brings investment, then I'm all for it.

#143 absinthedude

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 08:53

What's in a name? Several posters saying that once Peter Sauber relinquished control, the team is no longer Sauber.

 

How many organisations have long outlived their founders? There are businesses literally hundreds of years old which have been in existence continually during the centuries. In almost all cases, they have had no links to the family name which founded them for decades or indeed centuries. Should Lloyd's Bank change it's name because Samspon Lloyd passed away in the 18th century? Macy's must change it's name as RH Macy has been deceased over a century! It's a scandal!

 

McLaren has every right to call itself McLaren, both legally and morally as the company has existed without any breaks since the 60s. For the last few years there's been nobody at the team with links to Bruce, but it was still McLaren. Equally if Zak Brown decided he could set in motion the changing of the name to Zak GP or somesuch. 

 

What the name change to Alfa tells me is that this is a serious endeavour, with the intention of being at least medium term. 



#144 messy

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 09:11

I honestly think this team is going to be really good this year. Other teams have already been making noises, that usually happens for a reason. I'm personally really looking forward to seeing the (hopefully deep red all over) Alfa entry out of the box and seeing whether the whispers about them being the team to watch are true or not. Only shame, I suppose, is that they don't still have Leclerc.

Sauber name? Yeah, I'm a bit cold hearted and ambivalent really. Is a team that won one single race in 26 years really an "iconic name" anyway? An important name in modern F1 history, yeah. But time and the sport moves on. To be honest I'm slightly surprised so many people seem so upset about the loss of the name. It doesn't really bother me. I like the thought of the team turning into Alfa Romeo.

#145 JRodrigues

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 10:52

Or as we call it in the trade, "black".

 

That was as cool as it could be..

 

1994_C13_side-1024x576.jpg

 

:love:


Edited by JRodrigues, 02 February 2019 - 10:53.


#146 PayasYouRace

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 10:53

That was a cool as hell car..

 

 

 

:love:

 

That's the late 1994 car, but it also looked good, despite catching the measles.



#147 noriaki

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 10:58

Sauber were dead to me when they took Abramovich's tainted shillings.

 

And even deader when they committed fraud to stay on the grid, driving more worthy teams off it. 

 

Missed this the first time reading. So Sauber taking Abramovich's money was a black stain but Manor was perfectly OK to take Putin's money through Marussia, right?

 

 

 

 

...oh wait, they were British so of course that was excused...



#148 NixxxoN

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 11:07

RIP Sauber

 

Now besides Ferrari, only McLaren and Williams remaining as historic teams.



#149 Stephane

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 11:12

Haas is also among those who kept their original name.  :lol:



#150 PayasYouRace

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 11:18

Haas is also among those who kept their original name.  :lol:

 

Albeit with the misfortune of sharing his name with Carl and Team Haas (USA) Ltd.