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Ferrari Technical Thread (SF90)


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#6001 KevD

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 14:25

That will give the answer - brand new PU for 2 races only. Lets see if that TD really hurt them - no more "thats 6-7-8 races old engine" excuses.

 

They'll run that engine to the absolute max of its load capacity. It will be interesting to see the difference with Vettel's car, although he saved some milage as well by retiring last race.



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#6002 KrisHr

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 14:28

They'll run that engine to the absolute max of its load capacity. It will be interesting to see the difference with Vettel's car, although he saved some milage as well by retiring last race.

Abu Dhabi will be more interesting to me. Yeah, Brazil also, but Leclerc will have a penalty, which will slow him down at least at the early stage of the race.



#6003 Claymore25

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 15:08

They'll run that engine to the absolute max of its load capacity. It will be interesting to see the difference with Vettel's car, although he saved some milage as well by retiring last race.

 

Well, Vettel's car was less capacity after his DNF in Sochi and Austin.



#6004 Wuzak

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 01:16

I`m talking about Vettel`s engine, I`m well aware that Leclerc raced with a really old, probably detuned spec 2.

 

Apparently the ran Vettel's engine at lower power levels than normal in qualifying and the race for safety, until the could find out what happened to Leclerc's.



#6005 grunf77

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 07:48

Charles will fly in Brasil, can't think better track to take a penalty, after couple of laps I expect him to be 6th and catching leading group. 



#6006 oli4

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 12:14

Charles will fly in Brasil, can't think better track to take a penalty, after couple of laps I expect him to be 6th and catching leading group. 

They key will be to survive the first tight corner in the midfield. 



#6007 Wuzak

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 00:06

They key will be to survive the first tight corner in the midfield. 

 

Get a whole new PU and start last, avoid the congestion and be P6 by about lap 10 or 15.



#6008 baddog

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 00:43

Hard track to run from the back on, simply because of the opportunities for carnage. With that car he should be able to stick top passing on the straights and keep it clean hopefully.



#6009 ferrarista

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 21:46

https://translate.go...9CxEgmIv7h7ykOA

#6010 nemanja

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 19:23

Well, well, look who is again extremely fast on straights... 



#6011 GAZF1nut

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 19:33

Won’t red bull look be looking a bit foolish now  :p  



#6012 nemanja

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 22:01

EJchFZyX0AIz9p5.jpg

After all the fuss about Ferrari front wing concept now it seems it is a way to go for a next season... 


Edited by nemanja, 15 November 2019 - 23:53.


#6013 Blackoutjulian

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 00:43

Well...maybe there is some truth to it all
S1 and especially S3 show it.

#6014 sourav1480

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 01:18

https://www.auto-mot...-gegen-ferrari/

If we were to believe AMuS then we didn't run the trickery in Qualifying.

#6015 ferrarista

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 09:29

Ferrari is using since Austin larger rear wings than Mercedes and RB in an effort to improve in the corners? For better race pace? To experiment for next year as Binotto said in Austin?
We don’t know, the fact is that the performance in the corners was almost equal in the quali at Austin and Interlagos, it was never the case when they had 5-7 tenths on the straights, so I think it’s clear there is a trade off between Df for the corners and the performance on the straights, for some reason they are going for the performance in the corners lately (asked by Seb?).

#6016 dissident

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 09:38

And interestingly Charles was less than a tenth off Max in S2.



#6017 ferrarista

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 09:43

And interestingly Charles was less than a tenth off Max in S2.

in fact, it is possible that Ferrari is going for
more DF as they are confident they can add it without upsetting the balance; it didn’t work as they expected in Austin but Charles had an old engine and Seb had a probably damaged car since the first laps, we will see today if it works.
My guess is that it won’t work, this chassis was designed to be slippery and it doesn’t work as fine with more added DF, I think this can only be rectified with a new design.
But no doubt they can afford to experiment and try out new avenues with an eye on 2020.

Edited by ferrarista, 17 November 2019 - 09:44.


#6018 Tosh

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 18:47

Can this year end already? Oh my god.



#6019 Unicast

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 19:11

What a crap year, nothing seems to work for us and our experiments for the last two races have actually made us slower and back in contention for the 3rd best car.

We need to take a big leap forward (and in many areas) over the winter, if we are to have a chance to fight for the titles next year.

We need to improve by a lot and on so many aspects.

We'll see how it goes.

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#6020 Albertino

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 19:17

Curious to hear how the experiment with Charles' engine went. Do we know if it was an improvement on efficiency, power, or even a new design altogether?



#6021 Massa

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 19:41

What a crap year, nothing seems to work for us and our experiments for the last two races have actually made us slower and back in contention for the 3rd best car.

We need to take a big leap forward (and in many areas) over the winter, if we are to have a chance to fight for the titles next year.

We need to improve by a lot and on so many aspects.

We'll see how it goes.



I'm not agree at all. The turn around was fantastic, before the Singapore upgrade we were closer to the midfield in these kind of track. Since, 6 poles, (almost all the pole) race wins.

Now, the pace is good, the problem is the tyres management, you have to remember that the car have a fundamental problem, not enough DF, all the team is doing is damage limitation since Singapore and it's a great one, like in 2012.


Despite being handicapped with downforce problem and tyres management, in term of pace that car is a threat at every kind of track, even with less DF than Red Bull and Mercedes.
I'm proud of what the team did this year, such a turnaround despite being in damage limitation mode is wonderful.

Sometimes it's great to remember what we were watching this summer, 1 seconds per lap slower in race pace.

Today, Leclerc with the medium was matching the pace of the leaders.

#6022 Astandahl

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 19:42

Curious to hear how the experiment with Charles' engine went. Do we know if it was an improvement on efficiency, power, or even a new design altogether?

It's bullshit. It's the same Spec 3 engine.

 

Also another race with a terrible race compared to both Mercedes and RB. Hopefully next year the car will be better.



#6023 ferrarista

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 19:55

I'm not agree at all. The turn around was fantastic, before the Singapore upgrade we were closer to the midfield in these kind of track. Since, 6 poles, (almost all the pole) race wins.

Now, the pace is good, the problem is the tyres management, you have to remember that the car have a fundamental problem, not enough DF, all the team is doing is damage limitation since Singapore and it's a great one, like in 2012.


Despite being handicapped with downforce problem and tyres management, in term of pace that car is a threat at every kind of track, even with less DF than Red Bull and Mercedes.
I'm proud of what the team did this year, such a turnaround despite being in damage limitation mode is wonderful.

Sometimes it's great to remember what we were watching this summer, 1 seconds per lap slower in race pace.

Today, Leclerc with the medium was matching the pace of the leaders.

absolutely great turnaround, people have too short memory

#6024 Diablobb81

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 20:00

Except for tire management. It still sucks massively and is to blame for the race pace which nowhere near the other team/teams.

#6025 ferrarista

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 20:01

Abu Dhabi with the long straights and 90 degrees corners should be a good hunting ground, especially for Charles with the new engine.

#6026 Astandahl

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 19:36

Thank god one race and the T(Trash) F90 will disappear and no one will remember it.



#6027 nemanja

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 14:33

https://www.motorspo...brazil/4600419/



#6028 MKSixer

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 14:50

Parts of the Ferrari fuel system, a Ferrari customer car, and a Non-Ferrari were seized by the FIA.  Interesting...

 

https://www.planetf1...I2u6BGZtz0_u7Ds



#6029 ferrarista

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 15:56

https://www.motorspo...brazil/4600419/

Everything pointed towards an increase of DF on the car from Austin, good that it’s confirmed by the TP

#6030 Massa

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 14:55

The way this car destroy the tyres.. the worst car on the grid tyre wise. Even the Toro Rosso or the Williams could do the majority of the race on the first set of tyres.

Vettel 20 seconds behind Bottas, i know he had engine problems but it show how much the car kill the tyres.

During the first half of the first stint the car was faster than Red Bull and after that it was a beating.

I hope they learn their lesson for next year.

#6031 Diablobb81

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 14:56

Last races : high DF, low DF = still crap on tires.



#6032 ferrarista

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 14:57

no doubt, a lot to improve if they want to win next year

Edited by ferrarista, 01 December 2019 - 14:58.


#6033 Astandahl

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 14:58

I hope that FIA is planning close season next year.  Pirelli to the rescue like in 2017 :rotfl:


Edited by Astandahl, 01 December 2019 - 14:59.


#6034 Marklar

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 14:58

Actually I dont think it was that bad. They kept up with Red Bull and ultimately they just had the far worse strategy.

Mercedes being so good in Abu Dhabi makes everyone else look like amateurs, though.



#6035 Celloman

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 15:00

So what's up with the fuel irregularity, will it just be swept under the carpet like FIA tried to do with the Verstappen Mexico yellow flag infringement?



#6036 Massa

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 15:00

Actually I dont think it was that bad. They kept up with Red Bull and ultimately they just had the far worse strategy.

Mercedes being so good in Abu Dhabi makes everyone else look like amateurs, though.



For me the strategy was ok, with the way the car use the tyres the two stop was a no brainer

#6037 ARTGP

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 15:14

Actually I dont think it was that bad. They kept up with Red Bull and ultimately they just had the far worse strategy.

Mercedes being so good in Abu Dhabi makes everyone else look like amateurs, though.

 

 

Max had engine issues, Albon was nowhere on pace (slower than his teammate who was having massive lag).

 

It was that bad.



#6038 Marklar

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 15:16

Max had engine issues, Albon was nowhere on pace (slower than his teammate who was having massive lag).

 

It was that bad.

Yeah, but Max has every race engine issues, it's like Lewis' tyre issues  :p



#6039 GAZF1nut

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 15:21

Does the 2 hour wait for an outcome start now?



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#6040 Massa

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 15:23

Binotto said before the race he is not concerned

#6041 dissident

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 16:13

Look at the bright side: at the rate things are going, soon the calendar will have 30+ races, BUT they will all be 10 lap races to save costs and then our moment will finally arrive.  :smoking:



#6042 Unicast

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 18:31

Happy the season is over! There were many bad things but many good things as well.
Unfortunately we still lack the clarity of vision, that Mercedes has, both in terms of development but also strategy and operations.

Not even sure if the Gap is widder or lower compared to where we were at the end of 2018.

Yes we are a young team and we are still getting better, but we've been fighting with Mercedes and red bull for many years already and relative to them we just didn't improve enough.

Will 2020 finally be the year? Who knows, currently there is no real trend or pattern which can be reliably used to predict.

The certainty is that Mercedes is the top dog, they will again be close to perfection next year and they will give everything to keep their top position and enjoy even more success in the future.

Mercedes is like a machine, merciless, precise and fine tuned for success.

We'll have to go at great lengths to compete with them.

#6043 Ramon69

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 18:48

The only highlight about Ferrari in 2019 was signing Leclerc.  That's it! Other than that, the old problems remain: Vettel's errors, strategy errors from the team and a car that isn't ready to challenge for the title during the whole season. Yes, Charles made some mistakes too, but it's his first year in a top team and only his second year in F1, so I think that his mistakes can be excused. Even with this lack of experience, he made fewer or less crucial mistakes than Seb!



#6044 Unicast

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 14:34

The only highlight about Ferrari in 2019 was signing Leclerc.  That's it! Other than that, the old problems remain: Vettel's errors, strategy errors from the team and a car that isn't ready to challenge for the title during the whole season. Yes, Charles made some mistakes too, but it's his first year in a top team and only his second year in F1, so I think that his mistakes can be excused. Even with this lack of experience, he made fewer or less crucial mistakes than Seb!

 

Charles was very very good indeed and he is definitely a great asset for Ferrari, he is an already developing F1 star and he has immense talent and speed.

I just hope that Ferrari will be able to give him the environment, the team and the car, to fight for the win!

It would be a real shame for such an immense talent to be wasted within a team, which is unable to give him the tools for success and I also suspect Ferrari won't be able to hang on to Charles, on long term, if they don't manage to turn it up a notch and reach the level of perfection and excellence required to win the titles.


Edited by Unicast, 03 December 2019 - 10:11.


#6045 OneAndOnly

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:09

It's easy to get strategy right when you have the fastest race car and good tire management. Mercedes almost never got strategy right when they didn't have the quickest race car or problems with tires (which was rare this season though). In Germany they looked like amateurs. Don't forget both of their drivers made two big mistakes as well, with Hamilton being very lucky. Our junior driver made only one, and yet it costed him good race result.

I think team took good direction with Binotto. It takes time. Binotto seems to have clearer vision than his predecessors. When we build car that is fast on race day and has good tires management, then strategy and race operations will improve. When you have mediocre race pace and horrible tire management what exactly strategy team can do? They are given a knife in gunfight. It's not like they did perfect job, but they had it much harder than their competition. It's easier to be flawless with good tools. 

My biggest concern for next season is changes in tires construction again. Every time Pirelli changes something regarding tires it benefits Mercedes. 



#6046 Marklar

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:17

It's easy to get strategy right when you have the fastest race car and good tire management. Mercedes almost never got strategy right when they didn't have the quickest race car or problems with tires (which was rare this season though). In Germany they looked like amateurs. Don't forget both of their drivers made two big mistakes as well, with Hamilton being very lucky. Our junior driver made only one, and yet it costed him good race result.

I think team took good direction with Binotto. It takes time. Binotto seems to have clearer vision than his predecessors. When we build car that is fast on race day and has good tires management, then strategy and race operations will improve. When you have mediocre race pace and horrible tire management what exactly strategy team can do? They are given a knife in gunfight. It's not like they did perfect job, but they had it much harder than their competition. It's easier to be flawless with good tools. 

My biggest concern for next season is changes in tires construction again. Every time Pirelli changes something regarding tires it benefits Mercedes. 

That's why Ferrari had the best tyre management in 2017, right?

 

Mercedes hasnt managed to master the tyres until at some point in 2018. In 2014-2016 it was masked by them being just so much faster, and every time they didnt had a massive advantage there the tyre issues were already flashing up. Not to mention how they ate the tyres prior to their dominance.

If anything in the Pirelli Era Ferrari has handled the tyres better, the issue is just that they hardly managed to coordinate it with a good enough car. Ferrari had probably the most issues with tyres in 2018 (prior to this year), where they probably had the raw quickest car they had since their last championship win.


Edited by Marklar, 03 December 2019 - 09:32.


#6047 Unicast

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 10:16

That's why Ferrari had the best tyre management in 2017, right?

 

Mercedes hasnt managed to master the tyres until at some point in 2018. In 2014-2016 it was masked by them being just so much faster, and every time they didnt had a massive advantage there the tyre issues were already flashing up. Not to mention how they ate the tyres prior to their dominance.

If anything in the Pirelli Era Ferrari has handled the tyres better, the issue is just that they hardly managed to coordinate it with a good enough car. Ferrari had probably the most issues with tyres in 2018 (prior to this year), where they probably had the raw quickest car they had since their last championship win.

 

The 2018 car was not as fast and consistent than the 2007/2008 cars. It showed glimpses of speed but it was too little and too few in between.

We must also say that Mercedes had a really strong car in the races even last year, stronger than Ferrari on most track, even tough Ferrari had an edge in qualy.

Just look at the consistency and track record, Ferrari had a lot of tire related issues in 2018 (with the tick threaded tires) and they also hit a mid-season development slump, before rebounding a little bit around Spa and Monza right before they relapsed back to having difficulties understanding their car, the tires and chose the right development path forward.



#6048 Enzoluis

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 14:05

It's easy to get strategy right when you have the fastest race car and good tire management. Mercedes almost never got strategy right when they didn't have the quickest race car or problems with tires (which was rare this season though). In Germany they looked like amateurs. Don't forget both of their drivers made two big mistakes as well, with Hamilton being very lucky. Our junior driver made only one, and yet it costed him good race result.

I think team took good direction with Binotto. It takes time. Binotto seems to have clearer vision than his predecessors. When we build car that is fast on race day and has good tires management, then strategy and race operations will improve. When you have mediocre race pace and horrible tire management what exactly strategy team can do? They are given a knife in gunfight. It's not like they did perfect job, but they had it much harder than their competition. It's easier to be flawless with good tools. 

My biggest concern for next season is changes in tires construction again. Every time Pirelli changes something regarding tires it benefits Mercedes. 

 

I do not recall big race strategy mistakes. May be bad management of the rivalry between the drivers. They made mistakes in the procedures in the qualy and bads pit stops. I do not think they have lost big points because of bad strategy. Bigger problem was reliability.



#6049 Astandahl

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 16:36

Goodbye SF 90. No one will remember you piece of trash.



#6050 Unicast

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 17:38

Goodbye SF 90. No one will remember you piece of trash.

 

Amen :D

I just hope we don't get another piece of trash next year LOL


Edited by Unicast, 04 December 2019 - 17:38.