47 replies to this topic

[Nathan]

It has come to light Stroll has been trying to revive past F1 names to rebrand Racing Point.  Lola and Brabham being at least two.  About a decade ago ( ) Tony Fernandez eventually did the same with the Lotus name, followed by Genii.

 

In the 'Sauber now is Alfa Romeo Racing' thread many dislike the loss of historic names in Formula-1. What do we think of reviving past names to use for teams that bear no link to their respective pasts?

 

Do you think the Brabham family has made an error is denying Stroll's use of the family name?

 

What names from the past would you like to see come back to life?

Edited by Nathan, 05 February 2019 - 19:14.

[lukestanton91]

If they really wanted to use a classic name, then I would suggest that - given who they are, and the factory they're based in - maybe, just maybe, they should have opted for Jordan...

Edited by lukestanton91, 06 February 2019 - 14:30.

[DeKnyff]

No, I'm not interested at all in fake "Lotuses", "Brabhams" or any other name. I don' see the point in using those historical names when there isn't any real heritage link.

 

The case of Sauber Alfa-Romeo is different, though, because Alfa Romeo, at least, is pumping money into the team. That's already something.

[SpaceHorseParty]

I feel like renaming your team in honor of an unrelated team (e.g. the Loti of the early 2010s) is a bit tacky, so I'm glad Racing Point will have to create their own legacy. That said, I think it is fine for the Hinwil team to use the Alfa Romeo name given the connection to the car manufacturer, just as it was fine for Fernandes's Lotus to be renamed Caterham.

 

So, to answer the question, I wouldn't want to see Brabham/BRM/Lotus/similar teams to "return", since they would have no connection to the original team. I would love to see more diversity in terms of teams' bases – perhaps Ligier could consider a return?

[BRG]

Do you think the Brabham family has made an error is denying Stroll's use of the family name?

No.  As I understand it, the family has been working hard to recover the rights to their own name and have only recently succeeded.  There is a new Brabham car - the BT62 - and they are actively trying to get back into the sport.  So flogging off the name to Stroll & Co would have been counter-productive - as well as a travesty.

[noriaki]

I feel like renaming your team in honor of an unrelated team (e.g. the Loti of the early 2010s) is a bit tacky, so I'm glad Racing Point will have to create their own legacy. That said, I think it is fine for the Hinwil team to use the Alfa Romeo name given the connection to the car manufacturer, just as it was fine for Fernandes's Lotus to be renamed Caterham.

 

So, to answer the question, I wouldn't want to see Brabham/BRM/Lotus/similar teams to "return", since they would have no connection to the original team. I would love to see more diversity in terms of teams' bases – perhaps Ligier could consider a return?

 

Some of the LMP2 cars in the last few years have been called Ligier - not sure of the level of involvement from the company though

[Nathan]

Some of the LMP2 cars in the last few years have been called Ligier - not sure of the level of involvement from the company though

 

There was 2 companies - Ligier Automobiles and Equipe Ligier - the F1 & Le Mans teams.  The former produces micro cars and buses, and is the company that builds the sports car racers today.

Edited by Nathan, 05 February 2019 - 20:04.

[RacingGreen]

 

So, to answer the question, I wouldn't want to see Brabham/BRM/Lotus/similar teams to "return", since they would have no connection to the original team.

 

I have no problem with David Brabham using his own name in his efforts to relaunch a racing team, in fact I wish him well.

[ensign14]

Given the Canadians involved, surely the only possible name is Stebro?

 

Incidentally, here's a snap of the BT62.  Quite a looker.

 

[noriaki]

Given the Canadians involved, surely the only possible name is Stebro?

 

Oh please...the Racing Points aren't even constructed in Canada!

 

Hence they'd be way better off calling Walter Wolf. 

[Sterzo]

I’d like to see some old names revived, specifically Hildebrand Wolfmuller, Cottin et Desgouttes, and Gobron Brillié. It would add excitement to the TV commentary.

[HeadFirst]

I’d like to see some old names revived, specifically Hildebrand Wolfmuller, Cottin et Desgouttes, and Gobron Brillié. It would add excitement to the TV commentary.

 

I think closer competition would be the best way to add excitement to the TV commentary. 

[noikeee]

If they're going for an old name, I think they could've gone for something a little more fitting to the purpose of this project such like this.

[maximilian]

Yeah, Brabham stuffed up.  They have nothing much to show these days, and linking to an F1 team would do wonders to promote their "hypercar".

 

I hope it'll be a Theodore revival, based on past links between Stroll, Prema and Yip Jr.

 

If they wanted Canadian, they can go for Walter Wolf Racing...  Wolf is even still alive.

Edited by maximilian, 05 February 2019 - 23:22.

[Nathan]

Yeah, Brabham stuffed up.  They have nothing much to show these days, and linking to an F1 team would do wonders to promote their "hypercar".

 

 

This is what I thought/think, but I understand why the Brabham's would prefer to be in control of the brand.  I think you can trust Stroll considering the success of the team prior and the fact his son's chosen career and reputation is on the line as well, but if you are reviving your own historic name is there really much value derived from what is really just an arm's length branding exercise?  It didn't work for Spyker.  It will work for Alfa, but Alfa's customers won't be as well attuned to the specific history as Brabham's.

[Cornholio]

Yeah I think if it was Brabham actually running or heading up the team (even though they'd probably need Stroll-like investors as partners to make it work in F1 financially, of course) it would be different. Just licencing out the name wouldn't feel right though, and I guess he feels the same.

[BuddyHolly]

I don't really like the idea of revisiting classic names, I mean my fave team of all time is Tyrrell but I wouldn't like a team to take their name because Tyrrell without Ken and Norah isn't Tyrrell.   So, no thank you.  please pick a new name.

[CSF]

Mazzacane Grand Prix, the only name that would mean something in Grand Prix Racing. Do it. Racing Point, do it!

[Nobody]

I feel better about manufacturers (names) buying teams than teams buying (manufacturer) names.

[Afterburner]

He should call it ‘Sauber’ just to screw with us.

[Nobody]

[efuloni]

I dont like it. F1 should look forward, not backwards. Name it Bieber RT and see the magic happens.

[PeterScandlyn]

Unable for the life of me to even begin to guess why they'd want to use the Lola name.

 

F1 was definitely not their forte, the way they flip-flopped around.

They were massive in other series, no denying.

[proviz]

If you really want to project a message about lack of creativity and lack of imagination, by all means buy the rights to a defunct name. Totally agree that motor sport should look ahead, not backwards.

[Mohican]

Bring back UOP Shadow ! Coolest F1 car of the 70's.

[Ben1445]

This approach, even though failed, is just another episode in motorsport's 'nostalgia problem' 

 

The longer we we hark for the way things were, the more we deny ourselves a prosperous future. 

[Jbleroi]

I think it is cheap as f$"$k and lacks creativity to buy and  use an old legendary name as your team name...  Why not use your own name and try to create your own legacy.....  

but it is probably good for marketing purposes...... 

[absinthedude]

From a legal standpoint I suppose it's fine if you own the rights to use a name....to then use it....I think what Tony Fernandes was trying to do was bring Lotus Racing (later Team Lotus) and Lotus Cars together under one umbrella which was laudable in some ways. 

 

From what I can tell, Racing Point has no links to Lola, Brabham or other names they were looking at. Theodore might well have been appropriate as Yip Jr is involved with Stroll's businesses. 

 

Racing Point isn't exactly a bad name but it doesn't mean much....however, if they create a legacy we might be talking about "the great Racing Point team" in a decade. 

 

Just imagine if Fernandes had been able to find success with Lotus Cars and Lotus Racing....we'd remember the endeavor much more fondly...

[messy]

The Lotus thing was a total shambles, tacky as anything, having at one point two teams both completely unrelated to the 'proper' version and just renamed for tacky sponsorship/money reasons. 

[Vitesse2]

If Mr Stroll could spring for the cost of a working DFV and the necessary repairs/upgrades to get the old PC1 running again, maybe Peter Connew would lend his name?

[BobbyRicky]

He should just call it "Strolling Around(-Turbo)" or something. Be creative here, Lawrence!

(Turbo-part is optional).

[maximilian]

Certainly massively disappointing that all these supposedly bright heads and multibillionaires couldn't come up with ANYTHING other than sticking to "Racing Point" after all... after all that hype            BOOOOOOOO!  

[jcbc3]

Certainly massively disappointing that all these supposedly bright heads and multibillionaires couldn't come up with ANYTHING other than sticking to "Racing Point" after all... after all that hype            BOOOOOOOO!

I sense a commercial opportunity here....

[Clatter]

Certainly massively disappointing that all these supposedly bright heads and multibillionaires couldn't come up with ANYTHING other than sticking to "Racing Point" after all... after all that hype            BOOOOOOOO!  

 

Whats actually wrong with staying with the Racing Point name?

[AvranaKern]

Given the Canadians involved, surely the only possible name is Stebro?

Incidentally, here's a snap of the BT62. Quite a looker.

That rear wing is hideous.

[Dino2000]

If they really wanted to use a classic name, then I would suggest that - given who they are, and the factory they're based in - maybe, just maybe, they should have opted for Jordan...

 

This! 

 

When one traces the lifeline of this very team one goes through Sahara Force India --- Spyker --- Midland --- Jordan Grand Prix. It makes no sense to look for any other name than the original one, it would be a true heritage revival. And only if they could hire Eddie as the Team principal and 7up as title sponsorship as to revive a historical masterpiece livery… well that's close to daydreaming!

[Mat13]

Whats actually wrong with staying with the Racing Point name?

It’s generic and ****?

[PayasYouRace]

Whats actually wrong with staying with the Racing Point name?

 

From the point of view that the new owners originally said it was just a place holder name, now they're backing out of it.

 

However, I don't get why so many round here hate it so much.

[Clatter]

From the point of view that the new owners originally said it was just a place holder name, now they're backing out of it.

 

However, I don't get why so many round here hate it so much.

 

I'm guessing its all too do with the man with the money and his son.

[BRG]

I'm guessing its all too do with the man with the money and his son.

Yup. No matter what they called it, it would have been canned by the usual suspects.  Better stick to RP.  And definitely better than trying to batten on to someone else's historic name.

[John B]

Biggest issue I have with reviving old names (unless it truly is the same operation) is what it does to the record books - i.e. Renault of the 1970s-80s vs. the 2000s. 

[HeadFirst]

I have no problem with "Racing Point", but if a more Canadian sounding moniker is required how about Chinook (built FFs and other chassis back in the day), or Laurentian F1 for Stroll's Quebecois connection.

[BMWTeamBigazzi]

Why not  resurrect Larrousse? Fondmetal? Life? EuroBrun? Footwork? Coloni? Andrea Moda? Maki? Pacific? Scuderia Italia? Tyrrell even!!  I could go on... but sadly unless F1 opens up to all and sundry with a dream, F1 is dead as we know it!

[PayasYouRace]

Why not  resurrect Larrousse? Fondmetal? Life? EuroBrun? Footwork? Coloni? Andrea Moda? Maki? Pacific? Scuderia Italia? Tyrrell even!!  I could go on... but sadly unless F1 opens up to all and sundry with a dream, F1 is dead as we know it!

 

I'm not sure how that list of old names relates to lowering the barriers to entry for F1.

 

Anyway, why would anyone want to bring back names of such jokes as Life Racing Engines and Andrea Moda Formula. The latter was such an embarrassment to the sport the 1992 season review video doesn't even mention them once.

 

Then you've got still extant companies in there, Fondmetal still make wheels and Scuderia Italia still races. Not sure if Coloni still does.

 

Pacific merged with Team Lotus, so that would just be the whole Tony Fernandez saga again.

[ixnay]

The whole Lotus issue should have ended this desire. If you want a classic F1 team name - go out there and make one for the future.

[ensign14]

Anyway, why would anyone want to bring back names of such jokes as Life Racing Engines and Andrea Moda Formula. The latter was such an embarrassment to the sport the 1992 season review video doesn't even mention them once.

 

 

It is however because of their epic failure that people remember them more than they do, say, Eurobrun or Forti.  Or even occasionally successful teams like Rial.
 

[absinthedude]

There's nothing wrong per se with "Racing Point" though it is a bit banal....however if they have success in the next few years that impression will change. "Remember Perez winning the Italian GP in 2020, before that Racing Point were considered a bit of a laugh"

 

Lotus, Tyrrell, Williams, Mercedes, Red Bull.....only sound exciting because of their racing success. Perhaps Ferrari sounds exotic and fast on it's own but we'll never know. I suspect a lot of the hate is simply because Mr. Stroll is rich. 

 

As for Fernandes, if he had done what he wanted....which was to bring Lotus Cars and Team Lotus together and have success with both...we'd probably all be celebrating his success. The fact is his F1 team did make a credible start in 2010 but under all it's various names it never made any progress nor scored a single point. It was the best funded of the class of 2010 but in many ways the least impressive.I give HRT credit for being able to survive at all on their tiny budget, and Virgin/Marussia did make progress and score a few points. 

[Burai]

The 1Malaysia/Lotus situation would have paid off quite handsomely had Dany Bahar not been in charge at Lotus Cars. He could see that Fernandes was angling for his job, so he did the only thing any professional trying to balance the books at a small sports car manufacturer would do in that situation*; misappropriating company funds to spend on frivolous motor sports branding exercises and PR stunts to spite him.

 

*As long as that professional is absolutely mental.