255 replies to this topic

[Cynic2]

I guess you didn't look very hard: Note the backs of the technical crew. Note the side of the engine cover. Note the front of the car with the antlers. If you look for stills of the drivers you'd find it's all over their race suits, too.

 

Thank you.  As I said I didn't watch the HAAS team carefully, having more interest in the race, and I suspected I had missed something.

[Myrvold]

A lot of us are perceiving Myrvold and other's points from a glass half empty perspective, that they are coming from a glass half empty perspective. That is, while what they are factually saying is correct, it comes across to some of us as dismissive of the team as a legit F1 team.

I have nothing against customer teams in any sport really actually, in many series I wish there were some. It's just that the Haas - Toro Rosso area is, for me a kinda "nothing" land. TR will always just be the Red Bull jr team and be dismissed that way, while Haas is in a "we can't beat Ferrari due to budget and size of team,but still look how much better we are than many old teams" - while buying parts galore. I'll try to explain my view a bit further

 

With todays PU, and the energy recovery system, I don't see as how you could get away with the list you have above, without including the brake systems.

Brake system, in the terms of the "generating" part, I can see. But discs, pads, cooling etc, that can be down to each team to design themselves.
To put it in a broad way, internals are fine to buy, but every team should make every external part themselves. A bit like buying a Cosworth DFV and a gearbox, then bulding a car around it. That goes for suspensions etc. Yes, the PU, Gearbox etc, might come with pretty much set way for making casings and where to fit suspensions, it should still be each teams responsibility to design and get those suspension parts made. Airboxes for cooling the engine etc - down to each team do design, no chance to buy.

That's the way I would like to see it. At the same time, have an opening to buy a slightly older (as I said, max mid-season last season) car, fine by me as well. I'd just like it to be design all of the actual car, or nothing of the car. Maybe it's too black&white, but ye - that's how I feel F1 should be.

 

For the team itself, I am kinda indifferent, don't really care much for the drivers, or anything. But I hope they do well enough that we keep Steiner a long long time!

[KWSN - DSM]

No I have not. Give me a team statement that says they do not buy as much as they did before - then I'll happily accept it. As I've said. All we have is the team stating, they buy all they legally can from Ferrari. That we is something we all know. From February 2019: "Steiner said that the terms of his team's partnership with Ferrari remained unchanged, with his outfit buying as many parts as the regulations allow." Source

  
 

TR and RB does the same now as stated by the teams. Then again, RB/TR doesn't pretend that TR is anything but a farmer-team for RB, that tests solutions, train youngsters etc. From 2010 to 2018, Toro Rosso was a proper manufacturer, the first years it was a customer team, nad it's basically back to the same now - they haven't bothered replacing James Key for this reason. As far as I know, Saulfa Romeo doesn't buy everything they can, they've still got the staff from the Sauber-times, and have added to that as well - they surely buy stuff though, no doubt about it. Last statement I can find is late 2017 when they stated they would not go down the "buy all the parts they are allowed to" route due to not enough time, but they would look into it for the 2019 car. No info about it that I could find though.

 

If you look back through the years on the forum, and elsewhere, you'll see that there was quite a lot of people not really keen on Toro Rosso when they came in - cool with someone saving Minardi, but they used last years RB-cars, then again, RB wasn't a top team at the time. Prodrive wanted to join in on the basis of being a complete customer team, a McLaren B if you want. That got shot down. Super Aguri was cool due to the randomness of it, that it was set up somewhat to save Takuma Sato, that they used Arrows cars from 2002 etc.
There was people not too happy when Force India started buying gearboxes and such as well.

I am not against buying parts from each other, though I do think that the teams are allowed to buy too much these days. On the flipside, I would also have little issues with complete customer cars being offered, but that being handled partially by the FIA, with a cutoff date mid-season, and no parts changed after that are allowed to be a part of the customer deal - and by buying a complete car, you are not allowed to buy any parts (except PU's, internal cooling and gearboxes) for the season you will use the car. Which means any development must be done by themselves. (example of a ruleset I'd be happy with).
 

That's not an issue though? Like HRT who straight up ran a Dallara car. Like BMS Scuderia Italia did with Lola and Dallara in F1 as well. That's not really any issue is it. If Haas paid Dallara 50mill to design a build a car that wouldn't be anything like buying it from a competitor?

 

Though, I do feel every team should aim to do as much as they can themselves.

Regardless, as per February 2019, it is said that Haas buys everything they are allowed from Ferrari - I don't see how that is a discussion-point. 

 

Is it possible we are not having the same discussion? I take your posting as

 

'Haas is running last years Ferrari"

 

If that is what you are saying then you are wrong it is not legal for Haas to run another teams car. ipso facto they are not, end of story, no ifs, ands or buts.

 

[Nathan]

That's not an issue though?

 

Not to me.  It adds competitive cars to the grid.

 

[jcbc3]

We also established they don't run the Ferrari front wing and the floor controversy at Spa last year show they don't run that part either. If anyone, would compare the silhouette and bulk of the bodywork, you'll also see that the Haas and Ferrai are different. The conclusion being that even if the philosophy of aerodynamics are the same they are completely different.

[Nathan]

Does Haas use year-old Ferrari steering wheels? I noticed the serial number on the back of KMags ended 'KR'.  Normally serial numbers use the driver's abbreviation.