40 replies to this topic

[SpaceHorseParty]

In some sports leagues (particularly in the USA), there is a contingency plan named the "disaster draft". In case a team gets involved in a horrible accident that kills or incapacitates most of its players, it can draft players from the other teams to continue participating.

 

While such a situation does not exactly translate to a racing series, let's imagine a different (but similar) scenario. All 20 drivers that are supposed to drive in Formula One in 2019 are killed in a plane crash. Team staff, reserve drivers, FIA/Formula One officials, and others involved in Formula One are unharmed. Despite the tragedy, all involved parties decide not to postpone any races and to continue preparations for the 2019 season.

 

Which drivers do you think would be on the grid in such a scenario?

 

Mercedes: Ocon/Bird

Ferrari: Alonso/Rossi

Red Bull: Buemi/Vergne

Renault: Rosenqvist/Rowland

Haas: Pagenaud/Nasr

McLaren: Newgarden/de Vries

Racing Point: Markelov/Wehrlein

Sauber: Ericsson/Kobayashi

Toro Rosso: Hartley/Yamamoto

Williams: Sirotkin/Massa

 

For some of the drivers I had a specific team in mind. Alonso would likely be the top free agent, but there are rumors Mercedes are not very fond of him – so he's likely to go for Ferrari instead. Mercedes would quickly lock down Ocon. Red Bull would be the most likely team to sign up Buemi and Vergne, two Red Bull-affiliated drivers, from Formula E. I think it would be harder for them to fill the Toro Rosso seats – Hartley might agree to return, but someone like da Costa might not want to leave a top Formula E seat for anything less than a Red Bull. Sauber and Williams would ask Ericsson and Sirotkin, respectively, to return.

 

Some drivers I added to the grid without such a clear idea for their teams. Sam Bird, Alexander Rossi, Josef Newgarden, and Felix Rosenqvist are top performers in Formula E and IndyCar, and would likely be approached by multiple teams in such a situation. None of them have been affiliated with any of the current teams to my knowledge (except Bird, who tested for Mercedes in 2010), but all of them are young and talented.

 

Then I filled the blanks with drivers that either have some connection to their team or engine supplier (Rowland/Renault, de Vries/McLaren, Kobayashi/Sauber, Yamamoto/Honda, Massa/Williams), recent F1 experience (Wehrlein, Nasr), general experience (Pagenaud) or general competence, potentially along with money (Markelov).

 

I tried to only use drivers that have qualified for a FIA Super Licence (although I believe some might lack a point or two), but it's likely the FIA would not enforce the points requirement so strictly in such a situation.

[FirstnameLastname]

Interesting, although incredibly morbid.

In such an instance, F1 would probably take a prolonged break.

Edited by FirstnameLastname, 13 February 2019 - 19:58.

[Risil]

This sounds like the setup of the almost entirely forgotten John Goodman vehicle King Ralph

[Risil]

Also thank you for using that last paragraph to point out the stupidity of the FIA's superlicence rules

[pdac]

F1 would take a break - it would not continue

[Afterburner]

Will Power and Scott Dixon would likely end up somewhere near the sharp end, too, I'd imagine, unless by some freakish legalese they currently don't have enough super license points.

[Sterzo]

If F1 were really to put together a disaster plan, it would surely follow the lead of most business and ensure no plane left a runway carrying all 20 drivers.

</partypooped>

[Jbleroi]

Did you watch “we are marshall” the other day?

[PayasYouRace]

This is essentially the Kyalami 1982 situation. Except that was a drivers’ strike.

[messy]

I think the slightly boring answer is that teams would go for drivers who are in their youth or development programmes and failing that, pay-drivers. So Ferrari would have Mick Schumacher and Marcus Armstrong, Mercedes would have Estebans Gutierrez and Ocon, Red Bull Buemi and Ticktum. Don't think any of them would push the boat out for a Scott Dixon or Josef Newgarden, because.....well, there's nothing stopping them doing that now, right now if they wanted to but they don't. Pay driver's bulging wallets trump exciting Indycar or WEC talents nine times out of ten. You just wouldn't be seeing Marco Andretti, Josef Newgarden and Graham Rahal anywhere near F1 even if all the drivers were abducted by aliens.

[OvDrone]

This sounds like the setup of the almost entirely forgotten John Goodman vehicle King Ralph

A very obscure yet welcomed analogy.



Nevermind me; I have nothing to add. Someone said 'morbid' so I'm here.

[Dolph]

I think the slightly boring answer is that teams would go for drivers who are in their youth or development programmes and failing that, pay-drivers. So Ferrari would have Mick Schumacher and Marcus Armstrong, Mercedes would have Estebans Gutierrez and Ocon, Red Bull Buemi and Ticktum. Don't think any of them would push the boat out for a Scott Dixon or Josef Newgarden, because.....well, there's nothing stopping them doing that now, right now if they wanted to but they don't. Pay driver's bulging wallets trump exciting Indycar or WEC talents nine times out of ten. You just wouldn't be seeing Marco Andretti, Josef Newgarden and Graham Rahal anywhere near F1 even if all the drivers were abducted by aliens.

 

But we have only 1-2 paydrivers in F1 in 2019. So that part doesnt make any sense.

 

And how dare you mention Marco and Newgarden in the same sentence

[Ze Bum]

These Alonso-back-to-a-good-team scenarios are starting to get a bit desperate...

[jonpollak]

I’m available... and could do a journeyman job.. in the gap between reality and the netherworld.

Jp

[ANF]

Bizarre thread. It would obviously look like this:

Mercedes: Esteban Ocon / Esteban Gutiérrez
Ferrari: Fernando Alonso / Brendon Hartley
Red Bull: Sébastien Buemi / Dan Ticktum
Renault: Artem Markelov / Louis Delétraz
Haas: Pascal Wehrlein / Santino Ferrucci
McLaren: Nyck de Vries / Nicholas Latifi
Racing Point: Stoffel Vandoorne / Sergey Sirotkin
Alfa Romeo: Marcus Ericsson / Mick Schumacher
Toro Rosso: Sean Gelael / Daniil Kvyat
Williams: Paul di Resta / Nikita Mazepin

[noikeee]

Mercedes - Nico Rosberg - Esteban Ocon

Ferrari - Fernando Alonso - Lucas di Grassi

Red Bull - Sebastien Buemi - Brendon Hartley

Renault - Jean-Eric Vergne - Felix Rosenqvist

McLaren - Pascal Wehrlein - Alex Rossi

Racing Point - Kamui Kobayashi - Nyck de Vries

Toro Rosso - Dan Ticktum - Juri Vips

Haas - Josef Newgarden - Esteban Gutierrez

Alfa Romeo - Mick Schumacher - Robin Frijns

Williams - Sam Bird - Sergio Sette Camara

 

To make it less morbid let's pretend the 20 of them were momentarily abducted by aliens.

[noikeee]

Damnit I forgot Vandoorne. Someone definitely would snap him up. Maybe place him at Racing Point instead of de Vries.

[New Britain]

In November 2018, McLaren signed Sergio Sette Camara as their "test and development" driver. In the given hypothetical scenario (in composing a will, it is called an "Armageddon clause"), surely he would drive for McLaren.

[ch103]

I am an American.  I have never heard of this disaster draft concept used in sports.  We have it for politics, but not sports.

[dn12005]

I am an American.  I have never heard of this disaster draft concept used in sports.  We have it for politics, but not sports.

 

Ditto...

 

Only scenario where this would make sense is if the drivers do a "player (or driver for this instance) strike/or when the owners shut the players our in intense salary/union negotiations.  This has happened in MLB and NFL....the owners could/would call up replacement players. 

Edited by dn12005, 14 February 2019 - 00:58.

[mclarensmps]

These Alonso-back-to-a-good-team scenarios are starting to get a bit desperate...

 

Damn it you got me

[John B]

To make it less morbid let's pretend the 20 of them were momentarily abducted by aliens.

Or a breakaway series....?

[Garndell]

The less morbid version is from the film "The Replacements" where there's a contract dispute with the drivers refusing to drive until their demands are met.

[pitlanepalpatine]

These Alonso-back-to-a-good-team scenarios are starting to get a bit desperate...

 

Yup. I would actually hope in this specifically ridiculous scenario Alonso wouldn't come back as there is no upside to winning after all the other competitive F1 drivers got killed. It would also make him look like a number one suspect for sabotage and generate unwelcome paralells to Doctor Evil. Also, it's pretty obvious the only way Alonso gets a competitive F1 drive is with spherical F1 cars in a vacuum.

Edited by pitlanepalpatine, 14 February 2019 - 07:50.

[Baddoer]

Another Alonso thread? Ferrari will more likely draft someone like Fisichella or Badoer in rather than him.

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

Interesting, although incredibly morbid.

In such an instance, F1 would probably take a prolonged break.

Why!?

You can find 20 replacement drivers in one morning. No problem. There are virtually hundereds of quality drivers around who could wheel F1 car with sucess

[jcbc3]

I am an American.  I have never heard of this disaster draft concept used in sports.  We have it for politics, but not sports.

I googled it for you: https://en.wikipedia.../Disaster_draft

[Beri]

Interesting, although incredibly morbid.

In such an instance, F1 would probably take a prolonged break.

Well let's be honest, it is reality that it can happen. Who still remembers the crash of the Chapecoense football team? Imagine a similar crash happening to an aircraft that carries many Formula One team members. All the time regular flights are booked full with F1 journos and team members. Or what about the private flights that drivers take with each other. We saw pictures on Twitter or Instagram where 6 drivers or so were flying together. It can happen. So morbid or not, I think it's worth discussing. Albeit I do agree that Formula One will indeed take a break if something like this will happen.

[NoForumForOldPole]

DC was involved in airplane crash where both pilots died. I remember he shared his plane with other drivers many times.

https://www.telegrap...-Coulthard.html

Edited by NoForumForOldPole, 14 February 2019 - 09:01.

[FirstnameLastname]

DC was involved in airplane crash where both pilots died. I remember he shared his plane with other drivers many times.

https://www.telegrap...-Coulthard.html

I’m sure a lot of the drivers do actually travel together. Ricciardo is normally in charge of selfies on the trips.

[garoidb]

I’m sure a lot of the drivers do actually travel together. Ricciardo is normally in charge of selfies on the trips.

 

I remember seeing footage in a documentary from the early 80s of many drivers and F1 personnel sharing a passenger aircraft, possibly even chartered for the purpose. This would have been in relation to the fly-away races of the time in South Africa or South America.

[Henri Greuter]

I am an American.  I have never heard of this disaster draft concept used in sports.  We have it for politics, but not sports.

American racing saw a scenario like this for an important group of people within US single seater racing.

Back in late '78, after an USAC championshiprace in the end of the season a plane with a lot of important USAC officials crashed and many of the officials died.
This was just in the time that the creation of CART was about to begin, when there was a lot of turmoil between some of the team owners and USAC about the future of US single seater racing. The year before Tony Hulman, owner of the Indianpolis Motor Speedwa and an importants stabailizing factor had died.
It has been suggested that the death of both Hulman, then followed by that of a number of important USAC members has been a decisive factor within the first split we saw within US single seater racing in the winter of '78/'79: USAC vs CART.

But the mightmare dreamed up here will never happen, not wit airplanes that is. But I can foresee IS or some other group like that doing something nasty during one of the GP weekends in one of the Middle east GPs. "Black September" during the Munich Olympics of '72 come to mind.

[Anderis]

I though about a similar topic like 8-10 or so years ago.

 

It's a bit relieving to find out I was not the only one crazy enough to want to wonder about such a scenario.

[Beri]

Im wondering, I want to fill in my options on the drivers. But we cant name reserve drivers now can we? Reserve drivers often travel together with the teams/drivers. So we should exclude them as they will also likely have perished in this scenario.

[PayasYouRace]

The opposite scenario is probably more likely to cause serious problems in having a race. That is, of one of the FOM chartered cargo planes going down with half the grid's gear on board.

 

While a human loss of life will be more tragic, finding spare drivers isn't as difficult as building an entire grid of cars at short notice.

[dn12005]

I googled it for you: https://en.wikipedia.../Disaster_draft

 

Learn something new everyday.

[BRK]

What an incredibly morbid thought. I don't think the returns from filling in with tier 2 or inexperienced drivers and losing all of the sport's stars will be good business. F1 will eventually wind down for a while so I think this is a moot question. 

[ClubmanGT]

The opposite scenario is probably more likely to cause serious problems in having a race. That is, of one of the FOM chartered cargo planes going down with half the grid's gear on board.

 

While a human loss of life will be more tragic, finding spare drivers isn't as difficult as building an entire grid of cars at short notice.

 

You know, if Formula had to raid a national Mini Sevens field to find 22 cars they could race at short notice, I wouldn't be too upset at all. 

[Whatisvalis]

These Alonso-back-to-a-good-team scenarios are starting to get a bit desperate...

 

Thread saver.

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

The opposite scenario is probably more likely to cause serious problems in having a race. That is, of one of the FOM chartered cargo planes going down with half the grid's gear on board.

While a human loss of life will be more tragic, finding spare drivers isn't as difficult as building an entire grid of cars at short notice.

2018 "cars would be just fine in that scenario. Even 2017

[SpaceHorseParty]

Will Power and Scott Dixon would likely end up somewhere near the sharp end, too, I'd imagine, unless by some freakish legalese they currently don't have enough super license points.

I thought about them, but I suspect they are too old to be considered by the top teams, and might not want to leave IndyCar for a mid-to-bottom tier seat.
 

This is essentially the Kyalami 1982 situation. Except that was a drivers’ strike.

I tried to imagine a situation where the drivers are permanently unavailable. messy's/noikeee's idea of alien abduction is a nice alternative to my scenario. In a strike (as well as some of the other scenarios laid out in this topic), the teams would be less likely to look for the best available drivers and buy out their contracts – they could mostly make do with their test and development drivers, as a strike is going to end sooner or later.
 

I am an American.  I have never heard of this disaster draft concept used in sports.  We have it for politics, but not sports.

Thankfully, it hasn't been needed in any of the US sports leagues. It was, however, done in 2011 in Kontinental Hockey League following a plane crash that killed the entire Lokomotiv Yaroslavl team. How is there a disaster draft in politics?
 

Im wondering, I want to fill in my options on the drivers. But we cant name reserve drivers now can we? Reserve drivers often travel together with the teams/drivers. So we should exclude them as they will also likely have perished in this scenario.

It is a bit of a far-fetched scenario anyway: I don't think all drivers use the same plane. When I started this topic, I intended it as a discussion about who the next 20 drivers would be if the current batch was not available. Therefore I used reserve drivers – e.g. Ocon in Mercedes.