2276 replies to this topic

[aportinga]

Well, some people are still trying to minimize Verstappen's 19 win season as "he had a rocketship", so I'm afraid that the reverse to that coin is, if you have the clear fastest car and you don't manage that, you've clearly underachieved. Can't have it both ways. 

 

I don't think Max had the best car in 2021 or 2024.

 

I don't think he'll have the best car for 2025.

[mclarensmps]

Well, some people are still trying to minimize Verstappen's 19 win season as "he had a rocketship", so I'm afraid that the reverse to that coin is, if you have the clear fastest car and you don't manage that, you've clearly underachieved. Can't have it both ways. 

 

The exact point I am making is that it doesn't have to be one or the other haha. 

[Gravelngrass]

One of the most horrifying aspects I found was everyone welcoming the disgusting crook that is Flavio Briatore with open arms. And on top, him saying that basically he can do whatever he wants because he has money…

[Dan333SP]

One of the most horrifying aspects I found was everyone welcoming the disgusting crook that is Flavio Briatore with open arms. And on top, him saying that basically he can do whatever he wants because he has money…

 

To be fair, virtually everything that is happening in the world today confirms his point. 

[Dan333SP]

'If you don't like Fox News, well, just don't watch it.'

 

Explaining to you that some forms of amusement have a detrimental effect would be pointless and more Paddock Club-appropriate but I could not let this go pass. 

 

https://www.motorspo...ction/10701660/

 

Prost receiving an increase in crappy instagram DMs because of an overdramatized depiction of his relationship with Senna in a Netflix miniseries really doesn't have anything like the connection to what we're talking about that you think it does, IMO. Senna is gone and it's a shame Prost is receiving unwarranted attention from something that happened before most of the folks involved were born. 

 

DTS is bringing additional awareness to F1 and bringing literally millions of new viewers to the sport. Are some drivers maybe receiving more occasionally crappy messages from fans than before? Probably, but you know what else they're getting? Lots of additional money because of the exposure and popularity of the series. They all chose to be a part of a huge multinational sporting endeavor knowing that this can bring them unwanted attention, let's not gatekeep and try to presume that DTS brings in more of the "wrong kind" of fans, there are always bad apples but I'd wager virtually everyone in the sport would agree it's been a boon for the business side, and it is a business after all. 

[tifosiMac]

I don't think Max had the best car in 2021 or 2024.

 

I don't think he'll have the best car for 2025.

 

Max certainly had the best car for 'some' of those seasons, but F1 is a development sport and teams often trade performance superiority throughout competitive seasons.

 

What would be incorrect to say is that Max didn't have the best car for any of those seasons, as that is disingenuous. However being disingenuous is the premise for the 'Drive To Survive' franchise, as true events are not as dramatic for theatrical effect.

[Nemo1965]

Prost receiving an increase in crappy instagram DMs because of an overdramatized depiction of his relationship with Senna in a Netflix miniseries really doesn't have anything like the connection to what we're talking about that you think it does, IMO. Senna is gone and it's a shame Prost is receiving unwarranted attention from something that happened before most of the folks involved were born. 

 

DTS is bringing additional awareness to F1 and bringing literally millions of new viewers to the sport. Are some drivers maybe receiving more occasionally crappy messages from fans than before? Probably, but you know what else they're getting? Lots of additional money because of the exposure and popularity of the series. They all chose to be a part of a huge multinational sporting endeavor knowing that this can bring them unwanted attention, let's not gatekeep and try to presume that DTS brings in more of the "wrong kind" of fans, there are always bad apples but I'd wager virtually everyone in the sport would agree it's been a boon for the business side, and it is a business after all. 

 

I would drop all my objections against Drive to Survive with the simple disclaimer somewhere: 'The events as shown in this series are enhanced for dramatic effect. This is a program made by enthusiasts for race-fans, not a historic document.'

 

Then again... don't bother. I've seen this corruption of journalism during my life-time and I know I'am powerless to stop it or revert it. I like it that more people like F1 because of DTS, I don't like that it does in in the way that has been accepted now. Have fun with it.

[Heyli]

Max certainly had the best car for 'some' of those seasons, but F1 is a development sport and teams often trade performance superiority throughout competitive seasons.

 

What would be incorrect to say is that Max didn't have the best car for any of those seasons, as that is disingenuous. However being disingenuous is the premise for the 'Drive To Survive' franchise, as true events are not as dramatic for theatrical effect.

Why would that be incorrect? It's debatable (especially 2021), but to state it's incorrect like it's a fact would imo be an incorrect statement itself . 

[IrvTheSwerve]

I think we've been inundated by so many dominant cars in recent history (most years since 2011) that we don't really think of cars that are the fastest as such, unless they are clearly out front.

[tifosiMac]

Why would that be incorrect? It's debatable (especially 2021), but to state it's incorrect like it's a fact would imo be an incorrect statement itself . 

It comes down to data across the season. At some grand prix Red Bull clearly had the better package and at others Mercedes, recording fastest qualifying, fastest laps, finishing positions etc.

 

I do not think it is an unreasonable assumption looking at the data to say at some grand prix, Max was given a car with a better package than his opposition. It is such a complex technical sport running on the finest of margins, and perhaps irrational to suggest a driver is capable of outperforming his car and opposition to win 17 grand prix in 2 separate seasons without any performance advantage. That is excusing any luck at specific events and is about as close to fact as we are going to get.

 

I can also appreciate looking at specific data and being objective is not exactly fitting with the DTS rhetoric. We are sadly in the era now of 'this driver is better than this one or that one because I like him the best, bla bla bla, na na na na naaaaaa'.

[Gravelngrass]

To be fair, virtually everything that is happening in the world today confirms his point.

But it’s still wrong, right? Or are we already at the point of decay that we have to accept this?

[Heyli]

It comes down to data across the season. At some grand prix Red Bull clearly had the better package and at others Mercedes, recording fastest qualifying, fastest laps, finishing positions etc.

 

I do not think it is an unreasonable assumption looking at the data to say at some grand prix, Max was given a car with a better package than his opposition. It is such a complex technical sport running on the finest of margins, and perhaps irrational to suggest a driver is capable of outperforming his car and opposition to win 17 grand prix in 2 separate seasons without any performance advantage. That is excusing any luck at specific events and is about as close to fact as we are going to get.

 

I can also appreciate looking at specific data and being objective is not exactly fitting with the DTS rhetoric. We are sadly in the era now of 'this driver is better than this one or that one because I like him the best, bla bla bla, na na na na naaaaaa'.

I dont think the claim was that Max never had the best car for a single GP in a season. The claim is that over the season on average Red Bull was not the quicker car.

 

As said, that is still detabable (as the factor "driver" cannot accurately be meassured), but I think it's wrong to state it as a conclusive fact that Red Bull was the quickest car in 2021 and 2024. 

 

I think we were probably always in an era where "this driver is better than this one because bla bla bla". The only difference is that it's now very easy to spread that discussion via the internet...

[tifosiMac]

I dont think the claim was that Max never had the best car for a single GP in a season. The claim is that over the season on average Red Bull was not the quicker car.

 

As said, that is still detabable (as the factor "driver" cannot accurately be meassured), but I think it's wrong to state it as a conclusive fact that Red Bull was the quickest car in 2021 and 2024. 

 

I think we were probably always in an era where "this driver is better than this one because bla bla bla". The only difference is that it's now very easy to spread that discussion via the internet...

Yes but you quoted me where I was not talking about 'over an entire season'. You are talking about something else entirely.

[Heyli]

Yes but you quoted me where I was not talking about 'over an entire season'. You are talking about something else entirely.

I realise I now misread your post. My bad. 

[Dan333SP]

But it’s still wrong, right? Or are we already at the point of decay that we have to accept this?

 

Oh, it's wrong and actions should have consequences regardless of power/influence/money, but that feels like an idealistic reality that is unachievable now. 

[Beri]

I've only watched the Sainz episode. But boy oh boy, the tension created and the false clips used by various events is toe curling.

For instance:
1) Vowles is seen waiting in a conference room in a hotel. Allegedly it is the conference room where he waited and Sainz didn't show up. Which was at the Spanish Grand Prix. Later on, when Sainz is showing up to sign, the same conference room is seen where Vowles is welcoming Sainz.
2) Sauber issues in Monaco, but showing a team member going bananas on another track which implied it as being at Monaco.

These two examples alone make it toe curling to me.

[STRFerrari4Ever]

I've only watched the Sainz episode. But boy oh boy, the tension created and the false clips used by various events is toe curling.

For instance:
1) Vowles is seen waiting in a conference room in a hotel. Allegedly it is the conference room where he waited and Sainz didn't show up. Which was at the Spanish Grand Prix. Later on, when Sainz is showing up to sign, the same conference room is seen where Vowles is welcoming Sainz.
2) Sauber issues in Monaco, but showing a team member going bananas on another track which implied it as being at Monaco.

These two examples alone make it toe curling to me.

I hate how they can’t just use the actual audio of the cars on track, so often you hear audio of the Honda PU when a Ferrari or other non-Honda car is shown and it never matches where they are on track lol.

Furthermore regarding the inaccuracies in the final episode when McLaren win the WCC, they show Piastri’s onboard and it’s clearly the Jeddah track but somehow we’re supposed to believe it’s from Abu Dhabi upon achieving their result.

[FLB]

Max Verstappen gives more reasons why he's unhappy with DTS: https://www.crash.ne...vive-irritation

[DamonHillOfBeans]

I've been watching while doing some other stuff, and not paying full attention, but here are my observations.

 

There's altogether WAY too much Christian Horner and Will Buxton.

Horner is deeply arrogant, smug and has a huge chip on his shoulder. 

Lando is not WDC material unless he has a complete change of mindset.

Flavio Briatore thinks he's the new Bernie, and that enigmatic one-word answers make him interesting when in fact he's a creepy old criminal.

The fake re-voiced commentary clips properly grate, it's like a 90's videogame. 

If you're going to pretend a conversation is candid and off-the-cuff, don't cover it from 5 camera angles with perfect sound. Nobody's falling for this nonsense.

The narrative is all over the place.

Max & Lewis are absolutely right to give this a swerve. 

 

It's interesting, in it's own way, but for a hardcore fan it's just so fake and contrived that it's hard to watch. And yet I am....

[Cadence]

Just finished this season last night.

Worst yet.

[Victor]

One of the most horrifying aspects I found was everyone welcoming the disgusting crook that is Flavio Briatore with open arms. And on top, him saying that basically he can do whatever he wants because he has money…

Hmm, that reminds me someone else. Will we have tariffs in F1?

[FLB]

Hmm, that reminds me someone else. Will we have tariffs in F1?

We already do.

 

It's called 'anti-dilution fee' and it's been tripled for Cadillac.

[7MGTEsup]

We already do.

 

It's called 'anti-dilution fee' and it's been tripled for Cadillac.

 

Surprised there hasn't been a tweet from Trump on how nasty it is to enforce tarrifs that aren't his lol.

Edited by 7MGTEsup, 14 March 2025 - 12:00.

[Marklar]

Just finished it. Most people have already said everything that needs to be said. What did surprise me though is how little they actually covered the actual drama that really happened (which was arguably the most we had for a long time). The made up drama was less exciting than the real one. I get they are not at every race but you get this content even without it, just like we did throughout the year!

There was a real title fight, and Max especially said and did enough crazy stuff to properly cover it with drama, but instead the title fight was a bit of a after-thought and they added drama that never existed (Max being upset after Miami). It's such a weird editing choice.

also my favourite editing choice was the before mentioned choice of making Russell's "redemption" race Spa by ommitting his disqualification, but instead turn his actual win (Las Vegas) into a Max Verstappen win to make it look like he sealed the title with a win 

[Gravelngrass]

The Singapore episode really brings it home how some of these guys may never get a podium, let alone win a race, even if they were fighting closely and winning races in karts and lower formulae. It really shows how poorly F1 is designed in terms of competition.

On the other hand, it also shows what danger the drivers are put in with certain track conditions like Singapore, in an era of halos, red flags, safety cells and rain racing avoidance.

[Dunc]

I would drop all my objections against Drive to Survive with the simple disclaimer somewhere: 'The events as shown in this series are enhanced for dramatic effect. This is a program made by enthusiasts for race-fans, not a historic document.'

 

Then again... don't bother. I've seen this corruption of journalism during my life-time and I know I'am powerless to stop it or revert it. I like it that more people like F1 because of DTS, I don't like that it does in in the way that has been accepted now. Have fun with it.

 

I agree with you completely. Even something like "this is not a complete account of the season". I also agree that journalism is no longer what it was, one of the reasons I am no longer a journalist!

[MattK9]

The Singapore episode really brings it home how some of these guys may never get a podium, let alone win a race, even if they were fighting closely and winning races in karts and lower formulae. It really shows how poorly F1 is designed in terms of competition.

On the other hand, it also shows what danger the drivers are put in with certain track conditions like Singapore, in an era of halos, red flags, safety cells and rain racing avoidance.

 

New driver cooling for this year means we should never see that again. Russell did look completely spent after the race.