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F1 Netflix documentary


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#101 ixnay

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 20:35

I watched the first 6 episodes. It certainly plays favourites and pushes an agreed narrative. Example: Was extremely pro-Ricciardo and not so Verstappen. Was very pro-Occon and not so Perez. Was very pro-Renault (or Abiteboul) and not so Horner. Was very not in favour of Grosjean. Three times they made focus on people thinking him a clown (McLaren and Force India specifically).

 

Aside from biased narrative, it was pretty great. Things like Horner, Ricciardo, his family. Inside Force India at Administration meeting. Inside Williams at emergency meeting.

 

Things I learned if I was new to F1: No formation laps and Start Line is the Finish Line.

Most awkward moment: Abiteboul and Horner standing next to each other first time since the split before the conference. Haha. Oh boy was that painful. I was nervously shuffling my seating position.

Things they did that annoyed me as a racing fan: Sped up footage (especially starts), sound effects that don't match, edited footage for crashes to make them appear harder/larger.


Edited by ixnay, 08 March 2019 - 20:38.


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#102 RPM40

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 22:11

The focus on Red Bull is very interesting. Hearing Ricciardo's interviews he was incredibly aware of the fact Red Bull would be interested in pushing the "youngest ever" WDC and you could really feel he didn't think he'd get equal treatment. I wonder if he thinks Spain 2016 was a setup.


Edited by RPM40, 08 March 2019 - 22:11.


#103 RPM40

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 22:13

 Was very not in favour of Grosjean. Three times they made focus on people thinking him a clown (McLaren and Force India specifically).

 

 

I love the quote of the McLaren personnel saying he won't make lap 1 prior to Spain  :lol:



#104 RPM40

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 22:13

The whole interaction between Cyril and Christian was just so incredibly awkward and even a bit painfull to watch. Never thought both would be so affected by the Honda choice and Ricciardo switch.

Nice serie though!

 

I couldn't believe how needlessly awkward they were. Just shake hands and say hello. 



#105 Talisman

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 22:45

I love the quote of the McLaren personnel saying he won't make lap 1 prior to Spain  :lol:

 

I thought they meant corner 1?  Though one of them clearly disagreed and thought he'd make it to corner 2.  They were all wrong though, he made it to corner 3.

 

I'm bingewatching this and have to say there are some interesting insights.  The negativity at McLaren in pre-season testing.  Cyril's despair at losing Red Bull.  Ricciardo's constant doubts about whether Red Bull was the right place for him.  Horner letting slip his preference for Verstappen hoping he wins at Monaco.

 

Some of it feels contrived. The massive rivalry between Alonso and Sainz?  Really?  I'm not quite sure the replacement of narration by fake commentary works either.  Its pretty obvious that no race commentator would specifically mention Alonso or Sainz's finishing position relative to the other Spaniard only and it jars.  But I think there are minor quibbles.



#106 RPM40

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 22:49

I thought they meant corner 1?  Though one of them clearly disagreed and thought he'd make it to corner 2.  They were all wrong though, he made it to corner 3.

 

I'm bingewatching this and have to say there are some interesting insights.  The negativity at McLaren in pre-season testing.  Cyril's despair at losing Red Bull.  Ricciardo's constant doubts about whether Red Bull was the right place for him.  Horner letting slip his preference for Verstappen hoping he wins at Monaco.

 

Some of it feels contrived. The massive rivalry between Alonso and Sainz?  Really?  I'm not quite sure the replacement of narration by fake commentary works either.  Its pretty obvious that no race commentator would specifically mention Alonso or Sainz's finishing position relative to the other Spaniard only and it jars.  But I think there are minor quibbles.

 

Yeah the rivalry between Alonso and Sainz was really spun out of no were. That is entirely manufactured. They actually always seemed quite close. Alonso saying he'd beat Sainz, of course he'll say that, every driver would say that!

 

The insight to Red Bull I must say was really great and it highlights Ricciardo's desire to leave more and more. He didn't feel he was getting fair treatment. 

 

I believe this is made by the same team that did the Senna film, in which Senna was the 'good guy' and Prost the 'bad guy'. They're trying to spin the same narratives here. 



#107 ixnay

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 22:50

I thought they meant corner 1?  Though one of them clearly disagreed and thought he'd make it to corner 2.  They were all wrong though, he made it to corner 3.

 

I'm bingewatching this and have to say there are some interesting insights.  The negativity at McLaren in pre-season testing.  Cyril's despair at losing Red Bull.  Ricciardo's constant doubts about whether Red Bull was the right place for him.  Horner letting slip his preference for Verstappen hoping he wins at Monaco.

 

Some of it feels contrived. The massive rivalry between Alonso and Sainz?  Really?  I'm not quite sure the replacement of narration by fake commentary works either.  Its pretty obvious that no race commentator would specifically mention Alonso or Sainz's finishing position relative to the other Spaniard only and it jars.  But I think there are minor quibbles.

It was interesting as well that HO gave them the budget difference they lost with RB going with Honda. So the team didn't lose a euro of their budget (though I know the company overall did).



#108 lbennie

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 23:59

Just watched the episode of the Netflix series that goes over the Baku accident and dan's Monaco win. He really lays the boot into red bull and is not happy with them at all after that point. There's also behind the scene footage @ Monaco of Horner begging Ricciardo's dad to believe him when he says the team does not favor max. Crazy stuff!



#109 goldenboy

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 01:16

I'm really quite enjoying this actually. Nice job.

Ricciardos mother nervously watching was very interesting. God I felt sorry for the woman, she looked a nervous wreck.

Edited by goldenboy, 09 March 2019 - 01:22.


#110 mwf1

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 01:32

Just watched the episode of the Netflix series that goes over the Baku accident and dan's Monaco win. He really lays the boot into red bull and is not happy with them at all after that point. There's also behind the scene footage @ Monaco of Horner begging Ricciardo's dad to believe him when he says the team does not favor max. Crazy stuff!

wow i didnt realise it was that indepth 



#111 efuloni

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 01:58

Im on episode 3 and finding it surprinsingly good.
Quite nice to see some inside stuff and the facts a little bit twisted to turn everything into a story.
May ill binge watch them all today.

#112 gowebber

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 02:28

Yeah been watching it too. Pretty good. The only bit I didn't like was that Aussie overdub commentary in the first episode. Some good behind the scenes footage in this series which is cool. I cracked up when Cyril was having a dig at Horner at Spa after Dan signed. Funny stuff.  :lol:


Edited by gowebber, 09 March 2019 - 02:30.


#113 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 04:06

Gonna binge watch this tonight. Really looking forward to it, particularly the Red Bull/Ricciardo dynamics.

#114 SKL

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 05:31

Enjoyed it so far and only thru 2 episodes and starting the third.   Danny RIC is my favourite so impressed with the inside access so far.



#115 pitlanepalpatine

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 05:37

Yeah the rivalry between Alonso and Sainz was really spun out of no were. That is entirely manufactured. They actually always seemed quite close. Alonso saying he'd beat Sainz, of course he'll say that, every driver would say that!

 

The insight to Red Bull I must say was really great and it highlights Ricciardo's desire to leave more and more. He didn't feel he was getting fair treatment. 

 

I believe this is made by the same team that did the Senna film, in which Senna was the 'good guy' and Prost the 'bad guy'. They're trying to spin the same narratives here. 

 

I completely missed that was what they were trying to do because Sainz is more like Alonsos protege than his rival. Was quite shocked Cyril looked ready to cry at the break up and Horner just seemed like a bitter jilted emotionless prick but the barbs before Spa about Ric were fantastic. Looking forward to the rest of it now.

 

As far as Grosjean goes, he wasn't made to look like a clown, at the start of last season he was an absolute clown...what's the first rule of safety car? don't crash your car under safety car.

 

As far as Verstappen goes, I don't think it was aimed at being a pro-ricciardo anti-verstappen narrative but rather that the focus of this seems to be the hardship of F1. Comparatively speaking Ricciardo had more car trouble than Max last year and ignoring Max's own screw ups and engine failures, and in an documentary trying to sell F1 you don't want to highlight what a clusteruck the engine regulations are, he had a very successful season so doesn't really fit the narrative so far.



#116 Flasheart

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 05:49

The focus on Red Bull is very interesting. Hearing Ricciardo's interviews he was incredibly aware of the fact Red Bull would be interested in pushing the "youngest ever" WDC and you could really feel he didn't think he'd get equal treatment. I wonder if he thinks Spain 2016 was a setup.


When Webber was asked about Spain, he said something like, “Helmut loves his records”....

#117 goldenboy

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 09:51

I'm enjoying it as a Ricciardo fan, but they are kind of vilifying max by his pretty much complete lack of character development (I'm only a few episodes in though).

Bit of a shame considering he had an interesting up and down season himself. I wonder if he just didn't give them the same access?

Loving the Cyril Horner back and forth though.

#118 danstheman

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 10:15

Classic (very much intentional) editing showing Cyril driving his unassuming Renault to work, whereas Horner gets driven to work by a chauffor in a luxury car lol


Edited by danstheman, 09 March 2019 - 10:17.


#119 Laster

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 11:02

I finished watching the series, and while I did enjoy it, I've found their manipulation of events to create a narrative quite frustrating at times. An example is in episode 9 where they push this Haas/Renault Magnussen/Hulkenberg rivalry and use the USGP as a back drop. The way they show the unfolding of the race makes it appear as if everything is dependent in that moment (it wasn't) and that the race was incredibly tight between who would come out on top, they even threw in some radio messages that did not happen in that race - I know because I've watched the onboards with the team radio on F1TV for that race. So they make it look like Hulk is struggling to stay ahead of Magnussen, and that his tyres might give up at any moment but eventually succeeds in coming out on top and winning the battle to best of the rest, when in truth, Hulk was in cruise control after his first pitstop with no threats and had both Sainz and Perez between him and Magnussen who was about 15 seconds down the road from him. The tyres were blistering but it was no bigger deal than at any other race and the best of the rest thing was not resolved that weekend, it just gave Renault a huge swing in momentum.

 

Perhaps it's because I already know all this having followed events so closely that I find their attempts at driving a narrative to be really awkward and hamfisted. But I do see something in each episode where they've twisted things so that they can create their chosen narrative to build towards some grand climax come episode end. I do like the series, but I don't know, I don't like how manipulative it has been of somethings, it makes me wonder if the parts shown that are new to me are entirely truthful, or like many of these sequences, have been taken out of context and twisted to suit their chosen narrative. If I didn't know everything that happened last season, I would probably really like it as a series, but as it is I find this a pretty big stumbling block that has me cringing when ever it jumps out me.



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#120 ANF

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 11:23

Sounds about as manipulative as the Senna movie.

#121 pitlanepalpatine

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 11:28

I'd forgotten some of the funnier team radios to be honest

Verstappen: Engine Hot

Pits: Cool the car, that should help

 

:rotfl:



#122 SPBHM

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 11:30

Episode 4 was something...



#123 potmotr

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 11:31

Smashed through this whole series last night.

 

I think it's very well made, and pretty entertaining.

 

But it's not without its issues.

 

-The complete lack of access to Mercedes and Ferrari is a huge problem. As a consequence the lion's share of the series is dedicated to either to Red Bull/Daniel Ricciardo, Renault v Red Bull, Force India, or the battles for fourth in the championship between Haas and Renault, with occasional sprinkles of McLaren. Having an entire episode chronicling the battle for "best of the rest" rather sums up the problem with F1 currently. Last year we had a pretty epic battle between Hamilton and Vettel for much of the season. This is completely ignored. Pretty incredible when you think about it, knowing the amount of resource that went into this series.

 

-Haas appears to be the only team to give proper access. And by proper access I mean Gunther Steiner wearing a radio microphone at multiple events to capture true, unguarded moments. The access to other teams seems much more planned in a PR sense. Most of the other candid moments are based on cameras in the paddock capturing the tense exchange between Abitebol and Horner, for example. I think Haas comes out of the whole series looking great.

 

-The reliance on two "journalists" on the F1 payroll to keep the narrative going, given there's no voice of god narrator in the series. Will Buxton is the voice you hear the most from in every episode. I found his constant hyperbole and general demeanour incredibly irritating. I think I follow F1 fairly closely, but I'd never heard of Chris Medland. Yet he gets a huge amount of airtime too, despite a pretty awkward on-air presence. I've since learned he also works for F1. Having two paid propagandists for F1 in the place of proper working journalists, and giving them so much airtime in the series, is a real negative for me.

 

-The unguarded radio moments were great, and there's a lot of swearing! 


Edited by potmotr, 09 March 2019 - 11:33.


#124 Francesc

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 11:32

There's way too much focus on Red Bull IMO.



#125 Stephane

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 11:34

And too few on STR



#126 potmotr

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 11:36

And too few on STR

 

I don't think they had any access to STR did they?

 

Aside from a bit on Gasly being promoted to RBR.

 

Pity, there was some real fireworks at STR last year! 



#127 Topsu

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 11:36

Kimi's win in Austin would have made for a beautiful episode.



#128 potmotr

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 11:43

Kimi's win in Austin would have made for a beautiful episode.

 

It's as if Hamilton, Bottas, Vettel and Raikkonen don't actually exist. 



#129 Laster

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 11:59

Hamilton, Vettel, Bottas and Raikkonen being non-existant in the series is entirely on Ferrari and Mercedes, and not those making the documentary. It definitely did lack for the presence of the top fight, but I fear if they were involved everyone else would have been ignored. So as someone who takes more interest in the midfield than the goings on up front, the lack of Ferrari and Mercedes actually works for me.

#130 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 12:25

Shows that F1 doesn’t need Ferrari (or Mercedes) 👀

#131 Massa_f1

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 13:12

Watched the first 4 episodes, Episode 4 was a good watch. Getting to see just how tense the Red Bull, Renault relationship was made for a good episode.

 

Watching this documentary made me wonder even more why Ricciardo chose to go to Renault though. 



#132 potmotr

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 13:54

 

Watching this documentary made me wonder even more why Ricciardo chose to go to Renault though. 

 

I think money is a huge factor! 



#133 Diablobb81

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 14:22

Much better than i expected. It's fun.

#134 Ivanhoe

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 15:51

Was extremely pro-Ricciardo and not so Verstappen.


The part about the Austrian GP was just unreal, first they made it look like Dan lost the race by coming out of the pits just behind Hamilton, than highlighting him having a DNF because of mechanical problems, whilst not mentioning his team mate was always in front of him and won the race. The Austrian GP wasn’t about Ricciardo.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 09 March 2019 - 15:52.


#135 potmotr

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 16:07

The part about the Austrian GP was just unreal, first they made it look like Dan lost the race by coming out of the pits just behind Hamilton, than highlighting him having a DNF because of mechanical problems, whilst not mentioning his team mate was always in front of him and won the race. The Austrian GP wasn’t about Ricciardo.

 

I reckon this is down to one reason: Ricciardo gave them access, including in Australia, at home in Monaco, with his parents, with his manager while negotiations were underway.

 

I'm guessing Verstappen (and his entourage) might not have been so accommodating to the series producers, particularly given the pressure Max was under at the time. 



#136 alframsey

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 16:35

Just put the first episode on and seems decent so far. I found Mag's comments re not thinking about consequences of crashing the car very telling though and the image he tried to paint as not caring about dying cringe worthy.



#137 EdgarMed

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 17:20

I think it's pretty bad. And what I find bad is that the docuseries is, allegedly, about F1 as a whole. You can't do a documentary of 10h about F1 and avoid the real championship contenders completely. That was ridiculous. It's like having a movie focused on the extras or the supporting actors. It's interesting to know a few things about RB and Hass, and other midfield teams, yeah, but the best stories are always on the side of the real winners. A lame product not aimed for real F1 fans. 4/10.



#138 Ivanhoe

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 17:41

It’s interesting to know a few things about RB and Hass, and other midfield teams, yeah, but the best stories are always on the side of the real winners. A lame product not aimed for real F1 fans. 4/10.


What is it with ‘real’ F1 fans talking about Hass? 1/10

Edited by Ivanhoe, 09 March 2019 - 17:43.


#139 Maustinsj

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 17:57

If you’re not given access to the top two, what are you supposed to do? Make a series with what you’ve got and hope that the missing teams like what they see and join up next time.

I’m enjoying it thoroughly - from someone who’s been a fan of F1 since the 80s.

So let’s not have any of the snidey “it’s not for real fans” comments.

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#140 ferenc_k

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 18:56

I like it a lot. Really entertaining and I can imagine it will push some non F1 friends becoming more interested.

 

And there are moments like this with mr Stroll and Claire Williams right after the Monaco race is ending where Mr Stroll just deal with his ... buddy... right in front of Claire Williams. See my tweet with the photo of it below.

 

https://twitter.com/...455579328806915


Edited by ferenc_k, 09 March 2019 - 18:56.


#141 MortenF1

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 19:01

I like it a lot. Really entertaining and I can imagine it will push some non F1 friends becoming more interested.

And there are moments like this with mr Stroll and Claire Williams right after the Monaco race is ending where Mr Stroll just deal with his ... buddy... right in front of Claire Williams. See my tweet with the photo of it below.

https://twitter.com/...455579328806915


...and he wears his trousers up under his armpits!

#142 SonGoku

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 19:15

Let's not pretend we have other options to get more behind the scenes content about F1. Hell, with Bernie even this netflix doc wouldn't exist....



#143 Heyli

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 19:18

Loved it. Only the sound effects were a bit too much...



#144 potmotr

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 19:22

Loved it. Only the sound effects were a bit too much...

 

That an its reliance on "journalists" employed by F1 to keep the narrative going...



#145 Whatisvalis

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 19:23

It's definitely aimed at generating new interest in the sport, which explains the awkward, over done sound design, etc.. This dones't detract too much from the quality though - I'm four episodes in and there are plenty of interesting moments.

 

The scenes behind the Haas pitstop issues in Oz were fantastic, as is the DR / Ves Redbull intrigue.

 

If all the teams get onboard this year and one team doesn't run away with the title, the second season could be great.


Edited by Whatisvalis, 09 March 2019 - 19:24.


#146 TomNokoe

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 19:25

4 episodes in.

I really wanted to enjoy it, but I'm struggling.

My main gripe is that it simply doesn't feel organic, at all. This isn't a "fly-on-the-wall" documentary, it doesn't follow the drama as it happens. There's no exclusive access, it's all very contrived. Every scene with a driver, engineer, team owner etc, they know they are being recorded.

The best moments have been those produced by FOM for the World Feed :lol:

Either they had pre-set ideas before they started filming, or they tried to piece something together at the end. There is absolutely no flow to the series at all.

For example, for a series so heavily based around Ricciardo and Red Bull, they spent about 5 minutes covering Baku.

When they are covering Ricciardo's move to Renault, there is absolutely no hint that he's moving to Renault. In fact the whole thing is remarkably bizarre. You'd think if this was "behind the scenes" that the audience would at least be given insight into his thinking, etc. But we aren't. At one point his manager mentions a secret meeting he had with Renault. Why didn't the cameras attend?!?!?!

Any access that is granted is so very clearly guarded and manufactured.

That's before going in to the myriad of continuity and editing errors. It's ridiculous. The production is terrible. The fake commentary, fake engine noise, fake cheering, incorrect subtitles, etc. It's so inauthentic. The whole thing.

Edited by TomNokoe, 09 March 2019 - 19:51.


#147 pitlanepalpatine

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 19:53

I reckon this is down to one reason: Ricciardo gave them access, including in Australia, at home in Monaco, with his parents, with his manager while negotiations were underway.

 

I'm guessing Verstappen (and his entourage) might not have been so accommodating to the series producers, particularly given the pressure Max was under at the time. 

 

Aye, Max's comeback would've given them a great story and I doubt they didn't use it because of bias but rather because Jos and co said no. It'd also be interesting to know how much content was green lit post season.



#148 pitlanepalpatine

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 19:55

The best moments have been those produced by FOM for the World Feed :lol:
 

 

 

Because they were the only ones to contain Hamilton? :p   :lol:
 



#149 TomNokoe

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 20:02

Max's comeback would've given them a great story

If only the documentary was based around following the drama as it happens, rather than deciding for the viewer what they should see.

The reason the first episode HAAS meltdown was so interesting is because it was totally unscripted and original.

There are so many unfolding stories they could have covered, but either they chose not to (ignorance or stupidity...), or already had an episode structure pre-planned.

Because they were the only ones to contain Hamilton? :p :lol:


Ha-ha. No, for example the Red Bull-Renault relationship was best described through the team principal press conference and Max's radio in Hungary. The documentary didn't bring anything new to light.

Edited by TomNokoe, 09 March 2019 - 20:03.


#150 ferenc_k

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 20:21

Loved it. Only the sound effects were a bit too much...

 

Actually I think the sound department is very good, the audio post production, mastering as well. The video post, and the color correction, finishing is really top notch too.