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2019 Phillip Island Classic - March 8 -10


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#101 Wirra

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 22:57

Be still, my beating heart.

 

Phillip-Island-grid-photo-1.jpg

Ref: Bollyblog



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#102 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 23:09

Thanks Stephen :).  Those dawn shots of yours are certain keepers!
 
Some more:

and the crowds parted ...
2019%20PI%20Historics-213-XL.jpg

Mazda's Cosmo rotary, with some Italian thing in the background (it couldn't be worth much, the keys had been left in the ignition!)
2019%20PI%20Historics-225-XL.jpg

Another Mini Cooper, but not an 'S' (twin tanks, sliding windows, long gear lever - 1100?)
2019%20PI%20Historics-236-XL.jpg

Yes Virginia, it is a 351
2019%20PI%20Historics-26-XL.jpg

The red Fiat thing is common in comparison to that brap brap thing.

And the yellow Chev is worth more than anything else in this series of shots,

The poor old Clevo needs some cold air. It would be horrendously hot back there. And they are a big lump of iron.The car was fairly quick between off road excusions!

And probably a bit breathless sharing with that fag packet in front!



#103 GreenMachine

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 23:25

Ooops :blush: sorry Lynton for that misattribution!!
 

If indeed it's still running the 997 then very rare indeed, as so many have been re-engined. Coopers were all single tank and sliding window doors, prior to Oz Cooper S production. I realise it's a personal thing, but just wish they didn't put (possibly) reproduction Newton Commercial UK style trim in an Australian Cooper though.
 
 
Stephen


Stephen, that car was definitely twin tank, at least it had twin fillers so I assume there was a tank on both sides. Are you saying that this car (if original) was produced concurrently with the 1275 'S'? Answering my own question, if that was so, it would surely have wind-up windows :confused:.  I saw no information on the car, so can't speak for the engine, I was relying on the absence of the 'S' badge to distinguish it from that car.  Perhaps it is some hybrid Mini/Cooper/Cooper S?



#104 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 23:46

Is there any Mini that is what it should be?  Most seem to be  modded over the decades.

If nothing else rusted or crashed CooperS  transplanted into an 850 shell.

There is / was a Cooper S van around in Adelaide. An all blue one.

And more CooperS around now that what were made! A bit like Falcon GTs and XU1s.



#105 cooper997

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 00:14

Ed, The BRG Cooper S beside your earlier, blue Milano shot is definitely an Aussie twin tank Cooper S. But the Osmond & Saxon Green Morris Cooper, isn't showing the neck of a RH tank (and at the angle of your photo, it would be visible if it did). Plenty of non-Cooper S have had them fitted, but not originally built that way.

 

BMC Australia at Zetland, Sydney started building Completely Knocked Down (CKD) Morris Coopers from the UK, in final quarter of 1962. As things changed with the kits in the UK, they were applied to the Aussie cars too. An example going from 997cc to 998cc engines. But there was progressive changes due to more Australian content being sanctioned by the Australian Government's Plan A that the then Aussie car makers were trying to contend with. Hence when you study these cars in fine detail the changes are huge.

 

In Australia, Cooper and Cooper S were never built concurrently. The sliding window Cooper was phased out before windup window Cooper S was introduced into Australian production in the 3rd quarter of 1965. I've seen many windup windows fitted to sliding window shells over the years, but the door jamb and striker plate areas are different on each of them in originally built form.

 

As that Morris Cooper sits in your photo (despite the obvious mods), with full valance front panel, stainless steel mouldings around the sliding door frame (Morris 850 didn;t get the mouldings) and colour scheme, it fits the 1962/63 Australian production period. Of course that doesn't make the full picture of a genuine Morris Cooper shell (and I'm not provoking that this car isn't).

 

Of course, all that gets thrown out the window if you bring fully UK-built production into the equation. Because all Minis built there were on a ration of sliding window doors for the first 10 years of production. Plus will complicate things even further.

 

Stephen



#106 cooper997

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 00:31

This is getting way off the main reason for this PI thread...

 

However, in relation to Lee's comment, I say no there isn't more Cooper / Cooper S about than originally built. But you must do your homework before forking out wads of dollars for one to be convinced it's genuine. Aussie Cooper / Cooper S are now spread around the world and yes they, like Falcon GT's and any other performance car have been faked for various reasons, including those that couldn't afford one and slowly modified another base Mini. Then there's those, that do rebirth a car and onsell to someone without full disclosure. So a potential buyer not having done their homework can easily be burnt. That's fraud

 

Stephen.



#107 stuartbrs

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 07:51

Ive been around Mini`s my whole life, I dont like over restored Mini`s (although I appreciate the work that goes into them,)... a Mini has to smell like a Mini, not like vinyl and paint. 

 

There was a genuine barn find Cooper S at Mini fest here a few years ago. Literally pulled out of a garage after decades of storage. It had the mechanical`s repaired but the body work and interior left alone, and it is incredible. I could smell it 20 meters away. It smelt like a Mini, and is a genuine time capsule.  (not my photo, but public on facebook). 

 

23215456_10155905368179637_3292779191672


Edited by stuartbrs, 22 March 2019 - 07:52.


#108 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 10:39

This is getting way off the main reason for this PI thread...

 

However, in relation to Lee's comment, I say no there isn't more Cooper / Cooper S about than originally built. But you must do your homework before forking out wads of dollars for one to be convinced it's genuine. Aussie Cooper / Cooper S are now spread around the world and yes they, like Falcon GT's and any other performance car have been faked for various reasons, including those that couldn't afford one and slowly modified another base Mini. Then there's those, that do rebirth a car and onsell to someone without full disclosure. So a potential buyer not having done their homework can easily be burnt. That's fraud

 

Stephen.

On BMC I will bow to your greater knowledge, but Falcon GTs, GTS 350 and XU1 there is only 2000 left of the original 1500!!

And yes plenty of faker shakers etc sold as real ones. As a dealer and enthusiast I have seen oh so many. And seen the ID plates advertised on Ebay and Gumtree etc. And it appears nothing is ever done about it.

Somebody pinched the one from my old Sports Sedan, a genuine LC XU1 so it may well be back on the road!!

When I advertised it for sale I had no end of crooks wanting to buy and restore it!!!! Roof, front half of the rear quarters and some of the floor is all that was left of the original car. 



#109 GreenMachine

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 11:53

Thanks Stephen. I would have sworn that I saw two fillers, and that was what created the confusion in my mind - sliding windows Vs twin fillers. But you are right (of course) the RHS one should be visible in the photo, it isn't because it is not there, and hey presto the confusion resolved!!



#110 GreenMachine

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 12:24

Bugatti Talbot Darracq grunt
2019%20PI%20Historics-111-XL.jpg

Milano grunt
2019%20PI%20Historics-116-XL.jpg

Bolwell grunt
2019%20PI%20Historics-119-XL.jpg

Brabham grunt
2019%20PI%20Historics-127-XL.jpg

This Imp engine was in the back of (I think) a Bolwell - it was parked on the other side of the rope at the Bolwell gathering.
2019%20PI%20Historics-217-XL.jpg

Edit: correction to caption (Thanks Stephen)

Edited by GreenMachine, 26 March 2019 - 10:53.


#111 GreenMachine

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 12:33

A Twin Cam, in what by today's standards is a very bare engine bay
2019%20PI%20Historics-228-XL.jpg

The blown Torana, with signatures!
2019%20PI%20Historics-303-XL.jpg

Posting photos is a tiring business, I think it is time I went to bed ...
2019%20PI%20Historics-321-XL.jpg



#112 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 20:04

Isn't that a strange exhaust arrangement on the Milano?

 

Any more pics to make it clearer?



#113 rms

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 23:19

Isn't that a strange exhaust arrangement on the Milano?

 

Any more pics to make it clearer?

6 into 3 into 1(or it might be 2) ............... same as 4 into 2 into 1 on a 4 cylinder ......... isn't it ?????????



#114 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 00:23

Agreed, 4 into1 and 2 into 1.  They are robbing a good deal of power.  So are the open ram tubes when it gets fed a diet of sand and rocks

A pretty car though.



#115 bradbury west

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 11:00

Post 110 Bolwell GT.
Are there any shots of the whole car, please?.
Presumably this was a period mod, so what year would that have been?
It is intriguing that the engine is in the standard position, rather than tilted upwards as was commonplace.
Was that due to period regs for the class, or a simple fitting convenience?
Was/is the engine still 875 or taken out to the usual 998cc, or larger via local mods?.
Info sought for separate period marque research item.
Many thanks
Roger Lund

#116 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 11:02

You're right, Erol...

 

6 into 3 into 1. 1 & 6, 2 & 5, 3 & 4 teaming up. That works out.



#117 lyntonh

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 12:39

IMG-4505.jpg

It's not sharp exactly where I want it to be sharp, but there's still something about this shot.......



#118 lyntonh

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 12:40

IMG-4381.jpg



#119 lyntonh

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 12:40

IMG-4891.jpg



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#120 lyntonh

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 12:45

IMG-4666.jpg

Malcolm Oastler puffing smoke as he heads up to the Hay Shed on Saturday morning, and about to put it away for the rest of the meeting.



#121 Wirra

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 16:01

This Imp engine was in the back of (I think) a Bolwell - it was parked on the other side of the rope at the Bolwell gathering.
2019%20PI%20Historics-217-XL.jpg

 

 

Post 110 Bolwell GT.
Are there any shots of the whole car, please?.
Presumably this was a period mod, so what year would that have been?
It is intriguing that the engine is in the standard position, rather than tilted upwards as was commonplace.
Was that due to period regs for the class, or a simple fitting convenience?
Was/is the engine still 875 or taken out to the usual 998cc, or larger via local mods?.
Info sought for separate period marque research item.
Many thanks
Roger Lund

 

http://www.imps4ever...ls/bolwell.html

 

The site also provides further links to more info.


Edited by Wirra, 23 March 2019 - 16:02.


#122 bradbury west

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 17:40

Many thanks for the info. Very useful.
Roger Lund

#123 GreenMachine

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 21:53

Roger, there was no info (that I saw) about the car, so I cannot provide more details.  On review of my files, the car was in the shed with a collection of Bolwells but poorly placed for photography, then it appeared at the outside display - this is the best of my photos of the whole car.
 
2019%20PI%20Historics-216-XL.jpg



#124 bradbury west

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 23:50

Many thanks
RL

#125 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 23:59

IMG-4381.jpg

This was the car from the UK that broke r/f suspension heading into Honda on from memory Saturday. I feel a broken stub axle.



#126 lyntonh

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 07:48

IMG-4500.jpg

John Gillett in the TC Special



#127 lyntonh

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 07:49

IMG-4538.jpg



#128 lyntonh

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 07:50

IMG-4541.jpg

Max Pegram in the Gemini



#129 lyntonh

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 07:56

Simon Meyer in the Sprite trying to outbrake Matt McGraith in the Alfa........

IMG-4551.jpg

 

IMG-4552.jpg

 

IMG-4553.jpg

IMG-4554.jpgOK, next lap then.......


Edited by lyntonh, 25 March 2019 - 08:00.


#130 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 20:51

That was close!

 

Maybe not next lap either?



#131 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 07:47

Sprite would be half a second a lap faster with the roll bar at a decent height.

That Alfa was pretty and I normally hate black racecars. Suited that one.



#132 GreenMachine

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 08:57

 

Isn't that a strange exhaust arrangement on the Milano?
 
Any more pics to make it clearer?

   

Agreed, 4 into1 and 2 into 1.  They are robbing a good deal of power.  So are the open ram tubes when it gets fed a diet of sand and rocks
A pretty car though.


Ray, just seen your query.  Lee has it. I presume they merge into a single pipe.

 

Ray, if you right click on the image, go to properties, copy the address and paste it into your browser window it will take you to a full size image in my gallery which is much clearer, but there are no other photos of the arrangement.  I'd prefer not to paste the link directly.



#133 cooper997

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 09:16

Ed, I've just noticed a quick fix required for the top photo caption of post 110 (of all your great engine photos), that's the Talbot Darracq engine.

 

Stephen



#134 lyntonh

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 10:05

Mostly for my own amusement.......

 

John Mann in the Camaro, Andrew Williams in the Torana, and Ben Wilkinson in the Mustang.

 

Four different laps in the same race, at Siberia, on the Saturday morning.

IMG-4683.jpg

 

IMG-4696.jpgIMG-4705.jpg

 

IMG-4710.jpg



#135 lyntonh

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 10:19

Two photos of the same slide..............

IMG-4702.jpg

 

IMG-4703.jpg



#136 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 13:22

Originally posted by GreenMachine
Ray, just seen your query.  Lee has it. I presume they merge into a single pipe.....


Lee didn't look closely enough...

Erol did, he got it right, 6 into 3 into 1, here's the photo slightly enlarged:

0319milanoexhaust.jpg

The third flange is almost hidden under the second one.

#137 2Bob

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 20:47

"6 into 3 into 1, here's the photo slightly enlarged:" - it certainly works.  Bloody quick car.



#138 bradbury west

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 02:31

How do you work out the optimum exhaust length?
I read a paper on it years ago, but failed to keep a copy. I recall it is all to do with pressure waves, nodes and anti-nodes, and you have to also allow for the length of the exhaust tract out of the head. You need to have the end of the exhaust where the waves are at maximum distance apart, or have I got that all wrong? I do know it is not all just finger in the air guess work.
Roger Lund

#139 rms

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 03:02

6 into 3 int 1 ... the primary pair have 360 deg separation of pulses and the secondary pipe pulses are at 120 deg.



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#140 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 07:05

A few different ways and even then the power and torque characteristics required make yet more variations. And then different 'fads'  can do even more. On V8s for instance with 'pan warmers' with primary pipes going under or over the engine. Very popular twenty years ago. 

And most of us are stuck with off the shelf or what actually fits in your car.

And what is excellent on the towcar are useless on the racecar and vice versa.

I have dabbled a couple of times with exhaust from the headers on the dyno. Holden 6 speedway engine with 2x2" into 1 2.5" V 2x2" pipes. The first gave best power but the other gave a far better spread of power. Which you need to make it come off corners.

 On the 351 Ford interference fit 1 5/8 primarys into 3" collector and 3" pipes. Good low end but kills the top. V 'tuned length' 1 3/4 primary pipes into again 3" collectors. With 3" [the same] pipes. Better from about 4000 up. I also tried with the balance pipe behind the gearbox and it made very little difference. But did take a little of the 'crack' off the exhaust note.

A friend with a very healthy street GT Falcon had some side pipes like the GpC cars [and even now Supercars] generally used and actually lost power over the full 3" out the back exhaust. Same dyno same operator.

He had intended to Supersprint it but I think got scared. It does have 500 rwhp. 



#141 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 07:09

Mostly for my own amusement.......

 

John Mann in the Camaro, Andrew Williams in the Torana, and Ben Wilkinson in the Mustang.

 

Four different laps in the same race, at Siberia, on the Saturday morning.

IMG-4683.jpg

 

IMG-4696.jpgIMG-4705.jpg

 

IMG-4710.jpg

Andy eventually got through, hard work in the Torana that is about 200hp ,,,edit probably closer to 300,,,short of the Chev. I think the Mustang got through as well. Excellent dice.

Checkout the roll on the front tyres on the Chev, almost down to the Hoosier white letters. The rear are a bit better but also about 2" taller. They are a bias belt tyre. Made for historics primarily. I guess a period tyre as they defenitly are not modern!!

The radials on the Torana are a lot better and lot narrower as well. Though evidently that brand are good for one meeting!

After that John sort of went backwards in later races.


Edited by Lee Nicolle, 28 March 2019 - 00:35.


#142 cooper997

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 23:38

To help with future reference just posting the link to speedy27's huge file of 1335 PI Classic photos on flickr. Well worth a look if you've a got some spare time.

 

https://www.flickr.c...157704235164102

 

If others know of flickr or facebook acounts with PI photos then please add the link.

 

Stephen



#143 2Bob

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Posted 28 March 2019 - 21:06

For Cooper997. VIn car vdeo of the sports cars from more or less back of the field - mainly Sports 2000 down our end but some big stuff up the front.  Please excuse the spelling and other mistakes in the captions.  Must have been pretty late at night when I edited it!  Also it is race 2 not race 1! 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=fKu36XgBjXc



#144 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 28 March 2019 - 23:12

Those Sports 2000s are fairly slow. At least 10 year newer, midengined  2 litre yet only playing with a 1300 clubbie.

Which is faster through the corners and under brakes.

 

And Benda has not raced for so long he is back on P plates.

As would I if and when I ever race again.



#145 2Bob

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Posted 28 March 2019 - 23:24

Those Sports 2000s are fairly slow. At least 10 year newer, midengined  2 litre yet only playing with a 1300 clubbie.

Which is faster through the corners and under brakes.

 

And Benda has not raced for so long he is back on P plates.

As would I if and when I ever race again.

 

Similar horse power (they have a controlled engine like FF, I understand that cams were checked this meeting too).  More Torque of course.  Narrow tyres, heavier too but much better aero (they have aero, clubbies have negative aero or something..).  Good fun,  Closer around Mallala and Winton (I hope). 



#146 Ray Bell

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 00:12

Clubmans are just too good for them...

Simple cars, easy to sort by part time drivers, light and with just the right amount of rubber.

The Sports 2000s have the Pinto engine, don't they, and are restricted to original carby and stuff, right?

#147 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 02:37

Clubmans are just too good for them...

Simple cars, easy to sort by part time drivers, light and with just the right amount of rubber.

The Sports 2000s have the Pinto engine, don't they, and are restricted to original carby and stuff, right?

Pinto? This is Oz. 2 litre Cortina/ Escort engine.



#148 cooper997

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 06:04

Good stuff Bob, keeping the Sports 2000s honest, Thanks for adding the link.

 

Stephen



#149 cooper997

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 06:29

Like the ex race, one owner Bolwell Mk7 posted earlier in this thread, here's a couple of Friday morning 'earlier starter' Nagaris' for the weekend's Bolwell gathering of the flock.

 

2019-PI-Classic-Nagaris-TNF.jpg

 

Stephen



#150 Ray Bell

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 13:21

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
Pinto? This is Oz. 2 litre Cortina/ Escort engine.


True, Lee...

But I wasn't keen to waste too many words on such a worthless engine.