38 replies to this topic

[SB]

Why nobody mentioned this game ?

 

None of us has bought it ? I don't believe it !

Anyway I have order my copy and see if I could find sometime coming weekend to do a test run. 

[balage06]

I bought it, I just didn't have the time to try it properly yet. But my initial impressions were pretty good after a couple hours of playing, I think the reputation it has is way worse than what it deserves, maybe the community's expectations was a bit too high...

[mahelgel]

I never got along with the first installment (horrible menu system, and when i first tried it at early access it wasn't all that good and those first impressions probably set the tone for the rest of my "career" in dirt rally), but from what i hear the driving experiece in the second edition is pretty good. I will probably cave in and just get it one day, but i do fear it might be history repeating. From what i hear the Group B cars are pretty scary to drive, so that could make it all worth it 

[vtpachyderm]

I don’t have access to my console (PS4 with wheel) until June. But the game is on my wishlist/cart when I do get back. Enjoyed the first one immensely.

[messy]

Problem with this for me isn't the game (which I'm sure is pretty good), it's the fact that you buy it and get like half the game. With the rest bring added through paid DLC over the next couple of months. Nah, I'll get the full game, not paying 70 quid for game plus season pass.

[MikeV1987]

I bought the first one but didn't play it much, so I'm on the fence about buying this one.

[PayasYouRace]

I decided to buy it because the last rally game I had was Dirt 3. It's very good from where I'm sat, and with an XBox One controller, quite difficult. I'm still playing about with the assists and AI difficulty to get it to where I need it to be competitive.

 

Unfortunately you can't adjust the AI level in career mode. So after an initial first season where I won in the Lancia Fulvia starter car, I struggle to get into the points at Clubman level. I'm a bit more competitive at Rallycross though, and it's a lot of fun too. This is strange because with F1 2018, even in career mode you can adjust the AI level race to race, to keep the game at the right level of challenge, so I'm surprised Codies didn't incorporate it.

 

Currently focusing on the historic series for the main rally game, because I can bring the difficulty to where I want it. i.e. I'll win a stage if I have a great run, but if I just play it safe I'll be near the front. It's no fun if you win easily, but it's also no fun if you're trying your hardest and can only manage 17th on what felt like a solid run.

 

I bought the baseline game, so no DLC. With it there's plenty of cars to play with. All the Rallycross circuits are there with all the top level drivers and cars (it is the official game of the World Rallycross Championship). Of the rally stages, they've done the usual thing of having 2 very long stages in each country, which they then chop up and reverse into smaller sections to bring it to about 10 stages per country, but it does mean you recognise a lot of sections.

 

New Zealand is a bit of a gentle intro, but is still challenging at times, especially in the hairpins where you need to hook into the inside camber or you simply slide out into the scenery. Australia is more difficult. New England is a nice looking autumn set of stages, and the narrow paths make it quite challenging. Argentina is very tough despite being a slow set of stages, as the gravel tracks are surrounded by big rocks. Poland is mega fast and fun and is a mixed surface rally. But it's very easy to end up pinballing between the banks and end up in a huge accident. Spain is the only all tarmac rally, and while I've been told the tarmac physics aren't as good as the gravel, it's probably more noticeable playing with a wheel.

 

There are plenty of options and assists, including how early or late your co-driver calls are. I found the default a little bit too early, as Phil Mills was giving me calls for corners 3 or 4 corners ahead. I prefer the calls to be a second or so before I have to take action for that particular corner.

 

Overall, it's keeping me coming back for more.

[Hati]

Problem with this for me isn't the game (which I'm sure is pretty good), it's the fact that you buy it and get like half the game.

 

This. (+ the fact that I've bought first part but haven't played it yet since Assetto Corsa takes all my driving time.)

 

I'll buy it when complete game is 20€ or something like that on Steam sale.

[messy]

After my faux indignation about the price I bought the deluxe version today.

After an afternoon of (slowly) downloading an update I got a few minutes in. I think it's going to be good. Feels similar to the original game, without the zero gravity jump physics. So that's good. The new countries are good - New Zealand is great, I remember loving that on the original Colin McRae Rally, and it feels pretty authentic, have had a quick go on Poland and Australia too and looking forward to remastered versions of the original DR events over the next few weeks. Good mix of cars, like the new Polo R5 especially but missing 'proper' modern WRC cars again. There are rumours that the Season 3 DLC will be the fully licensed 2019 WRC but I don't buy that.

The Rallycross is great, though. All the cars, tracks, rules, proper event structure, I'm going to enjoy that a lot. Dirt Rally and Dirt 4 had the content, but it was limited. This feels like it's been properly done.

My reservations about this though are that it just doesn't seem as 'special' as DIRT Rally did. The stages, I'd hazard a guess, are fictional. I think you can tell. The stages in the original felt properly different. Hardcore. There was something so satisfying about slithering through Sweet Lamb in the original in the rain, but the stages here feel more like DiRT 4 to me. Also, I don't think the visual detail in the stages is anything like as varied, it's a bit same year and again I honestly think the difference is that the original had the real stages....

I played the original straight after and part of me still liked it much better. That might change, though.

[masa90]

I really like the game. There is few really, really annoying things though.

Random bugs, where the car is positioned inside the ground (yes, you read it correctly) is pretty horrible in a event where you cant restart at all or then it is really limited. Also sometimes your suspension breaks?? or something similar happens before the start of the stage. Usually restart cures this (if it is a race where they are available)

 

And most importantly, ai timing is really, really odd. Sometimes you win by 20-30 secs per stage, yet on next stage one random ai makes few minutes quicker time than anyone. Also why cant I adjust the difficulty on career? That thing is really broken atm.

 

Rest is really good, I love the feeling while driving if I somehow make a good stage (by my standards hah) and the R5 cars are a blast. All in all, everything is just pretty much better, but it does not work completely yet. Which is bit sad and will drive people away from it. They should polished it and then sold it.

[balage06]

I ended up ordering a handbrake.  Even in the first game, I often felt that I would be quicker if I had one, but with the new physics in 2.0 it is almost impossible to steer the car on gravel properly without a stick.

[messy]

WRC8 is out now, and it’s very good.

Being able to choose between Dirt Rally 2 and WRC8 is pretty amazing to be honest, two superb rally sims out there. Having played maybe two, three hours of WRC8 I still think maybe DR2 has the edge for the core driving experience, but it’s bloody close now and what WRC8 offers - full licenced WRC lineup from 2019 plus now some historic categories, 14 locations with several distinct stages for each (rather than one long stage cut up into sections like DR2), dynamic weather, stages that last 20 miles, it might even have the edge depending on what you want from a rally game.

Edited by messy, 06 September 2019 - 23:11.

[blackmme]

I treated myself to the Ultimate Edition in the PlayStation January Sale, so thereby avoided most people’s (justifiable) Pay DLC gripes.

First impressions are great,
I really enjoyed Dirt Rally and although I am completely and utterly rubbish at it I’m absolutely ok with that because the game seems scrupulously fair and it’s my lack of talent (and ageing reflexes) that are the problem!
Every aspect from Dirt Rally seems improved, and my brief run in the Lancia 037 in the Alps was an absolute hoot except for the bit when it turns out that I do t have quite the depth of talent as Walter Rohrl!

Regards Mike

[messy]

It’s really, really good and there’s an absolute **** load of content which was the biggest issue with the original.

I miss Pikes Peak, though!!!

[vtpachyderm]

If you're a PS Plus member it's a free download right now

[messy]

This is 15 quid for the ‘Game of the Year’ edition on PS4 at the moment, which includes every single bit of DLC. That’s good value, I never do this as have already got it on XB1 but bought it on PS4 so I can free up some space on the HD.

[pRy]

Mika Salo is streaming this at the moment: https://www.twitch.tv/mikasalo66

[Myrvold]

While Me and the crew have re-started RDRC. With no proper livestream opportunity we've gone down the route of magazines again.

 

 

https://www.racedepa...nt-info.196403/

[Peat]

I dl'ed WRC9 this weekend. It's pretty good, some physics oddities, you can get away with ALOT.

I still pine after RBR levels of savage realism though. 

Edited by Peat, 15 February 2021 - 08:32.

[messy]

Problem with WRC9 for me is the same as with WRC8 - no custom championship, or chance just to select the car you want, the event you want, and race it. You have to trawl through the career mode to get to it.

I think DIRT Rally 2 is probably the best console racing game of this generation, and maybe the best ever. I’ve piled days into it. Love it. WRC9 has its good points undoubtedly, but I don’t think it comes close.

[Myrvold]

What bugs me most with the WRC games are the complete lack of attention to detail, it's like they don't care. I can easily play games with bad physics if the games themselves have fun gameplay. V-Rally 3 is probably the best example, the physics are... well, special. But the career-mode was groundbreaking at the time, and in a way, sadly, it still holds up really well. I play it from time to time now as well. For official games, I look for the feeling of being a part of the official championship, with proper rules etc. but there is a huge list of issues with WRC9.

• Fair enough that the re-use stages from WRC 6,7 and 8. But they could at least change the stage-names. E.g Rally Sweden SS Knon was only used in 2017. That name is still in WRC9. The stage have zero resemblance to the actual Knon-stage, just re-name it to a 2020-name! details!
• Retired cars beside the road are just gimmicks. No AI ever retires, so whenever you see a retired car, it's just for show. Even WRC Rally Evolved on PS2 had this one right.
• AI on Super Special are random. You can lose against the AI-car you are up against on a super-special, but still win the stage. Or beat the AI you drive against, but not win the stage. Even CMR1 for PS1 got this right. CMR2.0 even had a "race of champions" style gamemode where you raced in head to heads on super specials. WRC 9 (and 6,7,8) haven't gotten this right.
• AI on Super Specials are really random. When you drive the R5 cars, not every driver participate in every rally, just like IRL. However, you can find yourself driving against an AI car on a Super Special that isn't even in the actual rally... attention to details...
• WRC2 and WRC3 are combined to one single class. Granted, I see the reason why, as moving from WRC3 to WRC2 would be moving from a 15 driver class to a 4 driver class. The issue comes when the WRC9 devs have gotten ONE rule correct. That the WRC2 guys have 7 counting rallies and WRC3 guys only have 6. The issue is when they decide to not split the class like IRL, but combine them, but still having WRC3 drivers do one rally less. Ugh.
• All drivers score manufacturer points... So, IRL you have three drivers nominated and top two score points. Now, I can forgive the WRC-Devs for not bothering with implementing the three nominated drivers. Especially as the ones who take the seat of the privateer guys, and are not into WRC might struggle to understand why they don't score manufacturer points. But they haven't even managed to implement "top two". So Hyundai in the game have got Tänak, Neuville, Sordo, Loeb, Breen, Loubet and Paddon doing all rounds. And they all score manufacturer points in all rallies. Which means that Hyundai have 7 cars that can score manufacturer-points in any rally. WTF?

I know this have little to do with the actual driving physics etc. But this is supposed to be the official WRC-game, and they just don't have any attention to detail, it doesn't seem like they care at all. It really turn me off the game. Had it been a generic rally game, it would've been some weird choices, but fine. It would've been KRC (Kylotonn Rally Championship) and they could do whatever they like. But it's not, it's supposed to be the WRC 2020 season with all it's rules etc. Ugh. Awful.

[PayasYouRace]

Those might be some factors in why the WRC licence has been switched over to Codemasters.

https://www.google.c...ial-wrc-licence

[balage06]

I hope the Electronic Arts takeover won't affect their plans with it and it will be a successor of Dirt Rally 2.0 in terms of realism and details.

[Peat]

So, what your'e saying is, I should have got Dirt Rally 2? Noted. 

I think I had the first one and enjoyed it, but ultimately got bored of the stages. Got to know them all fairly quickly IIRC. 

The more i'm using WRC9, the more annoyance i find. The UI is a mess (presumably designed for consoles) which lets you use the mouse for some bits and makes you use keys for others. I can't find a way to set up a club/multiplayer rally with multiple days and service parks etc. Seems a bit limited. 

[Myrvold]

Those might be some factors in why the WRC licence has been switched over to Codemasters.

*amp-link*

 

I wonder why Codemasters went for it now. I think you might be on to something, as the rumours were they didn't want it, as they felt a yearly rally game wouldn't be possible to do good enough compared to e.g F1 who often races at the same tracks&layouts year after year - and have a higher number of sales.
Might be that the WRC-Promoter saw the DR1 success and sold it to Codemasters for a bit cheaper than normal?

 

I hope the Electronic Arts takeover won't affect their plans with it and it will be a successor of Dirt Rally 2.0 in terms of realism and details.

 

Who knows. I wouldn't be surprised to see DiRT Rally 3 within the end of 2021 though. As not releasing anything until 2023 seems unrealistic.

 

So, what your'e saying is, I should have got Dirt Rally 2? Noted. 

I think I had the first one and enjoyed it, but ultimately got bored of the stages. Got to know them all fairly quickly IIRC. 

The more i'm using WRC9, the more annoyance i find. The UI is a mess (presumably designed for consoles) which lets you use the mouse for some bits and makes you use keys for others. I can't find a way to set up a club/multiplayer rally with multiple days and service parks etc. Seems a bit limited. 

 

So, DR2 is basically what people wanted DR1 to be in terms of stages etc. But half of DR2 is DR1 content sold as DLC. They got loads of backlash due to it. (Picking up the GOTY edition on a sale now is good value!). They have screwed up some things from the first DiRT Rally game though. Club-rally is now max 12 stages, can only be from one country with one car-class. That's not a big issue for a group of mates, but for me, hosting the RDRC it's annoying.

Live multiplayer rally is max 8 humans, and then you have AI opponents as well. That's actually quite enjoyable. Even the RX-stuff is ok enjoyable

[messy]

I wouldn’t expect Dirt Rally 3 for a while....they’ve said we won’t see it for quite a long time and are still supporting/updating DR2 up until yesterday.

I’d rather they took their time really. It’s a brilliant game. The thought of that with the WRC license is so exciting.

[Myrvold]

I wouldn’t expect Dirt Rally 3 for a while....they’ve said we won’t see it for quite a long time and are still supporting/updating DR2 up until yesterday.

I’d rather they took their time really. It’s a brilliant game. The thought of that with the WRC license is so exciting.

 

No DR3 for a while, means that there will be quite a long time until the next numbered DiRT game as well. Now, I don't see how numbered DiRT games fits in with the WRC-game scheduling, so that will be an interesting one.

 

Regardless. Releasing DR3 later than Q2 2022 will make the game have a lifespan of 1 year, possibly shorter in terms of DLC sales etc. Not sure that is a Codemasters strategy. No more DiRT/DiRT Rally games until the WRC-series is also unlikely.

 

I do know that there has been done work months ago that doesn't fit into anything released or planned for DiRT 5, isn't in DR2, and doesn't fit in a 2023 WRC game. Which leads me to believe that DR3 has been in the works for a while already. Though, there is a chance that the Take-Two -> EA takeover stuff have change priorities.

[noikeee]

I got DR2 recently and have mixed feelings about it

 

First time I went into it, after spending 20 minutes fixing my force feedback, it felt awesome with the Mitsubishi Lancer Group A. Just really a ton of fun.

 

Then I started a career with the historic cars and first the ****ing thing doesn't automatically set the steering wheel degrees of rotation per car, I have to constantly set it car by car outside of the game, then it just feels mushy undetailed and unresponsive with the historic car (it's a Datsun I think, or the Lancia Fulvia). Disappointing after the first "woah this is actually really good" moment.

[balage06]

Then I started a career with the historic cars and first the ****ing thing doesn't automatically set the steering wheel degrees of rotation per car, I have to constantly set it car by car outside of the game, then it just feels mushy undetailed and unresponsive with the historic car (it's a Datsun I think, or the Lancia Fulvia). Disappointing after the first "woah this is actually really good" moment.

 

Set the rotation to 540 degrees in your wheel driver and calibrate it like that inside the game, every car will be fine like that. Codemasters still doesn't want to acknowledge that every wheel has 900+ degrees rotation now above entry level.

[noikeee]

Yeah thanks I'll try that (in fact that's exactly what I did for that car), but it's still a pain to have to change outside the game just for this game.

[Myrvold]

I use a G29, but I have an own profile for every game I play, and even specifics inside some game. 

[Nemo1965]

Set the rotation to 540 degrees in your wheel driver and calibrate it like that inside the game, every car will be fine like that. Codemasters still doesn't want to acknowledge that every wheel has 900+ degrees rotation now above entry level.

 

This. I. Just. Don't. Understand. You are not the first one on the internet-community that totally confounds me with this rotation-thing.

 

I just bought a Logitech G29 (plus stick shift, I use the paddles for F1 games) last week. I race rFactor (all kinds of mods) and F1 2014 by Codemasters. For rFactor, I set the rotation to 270 degrees. For F1-games I set the rotation to 140 degrees (!) and for some tracks even 120 degrees. So usually seventy degrees to the left, seventy (70) to the right (that is three-quarters of a turn of the wheel). Why? Because the in wheel-game NEVER turns more than that. And I wonder if ANY F1-car has more rotation than that (except for Monaco).

 

If I would set the Logitech Github (the wheel's own software) to 270 degrees and race in F1 2014 I would have to turn the wheel THREE two times around its axis to get around the ultra fast right-hander at Melbourne. (I mean corner 5). And even with that very small rotation of 70 degrees I have to grab the underside of the wheel, turn like a madman and make a MUCH bigger turn with the wheel than the in-game wheel is making.

 

For clarity sake: I have set the linearity of the wheel to 100 percent, with a 0,5 percent dead-zone. That means that almost EVERY movement with the wheel, should translate by immediate movement of the wheel in F1 2014. So my idea is that actually Codemasters have a kind 'idiot-proof' hidden setting that protects the daily gamer against too harsh inputs. If I would talk in GP4 or rFactor-lingo: a kind of in-build lowering of the steering sensitivity.

 

But that is a moot point. What am I missing about this rotation thing in general?

Edited by Nemo1965, 22 February 2021 - 09:21.

[balage06]

But that is a moot point. What am I missing about this rotation thing in general?

 

Well, the story with the Codemasters F1 series is simple enough: if you want a 1:1 ratio between your own and the virtual steering wheel, you should set the rotation to 360 degrees and then calibrate your wheel inside the game with that setting.

 

The Dirt rally series has a weirder implementation, because in theory, it supports more rotation values, but the higher angle you set in your driver, the more unresponsive the steering will get inside the game, so a value between 360-540 is the sweet spot.

 

But nowadays, racing sims usually have proper "soft lock/autolock" implementation, which means that the force feedback will prevent rotating the wheel further than what the current car is capable of. I'm not sure rFactor 1 supports that though. With that, I can simply set a 1080 degree rotation on my T300 and the software will set the proper amount of rotation for every car and the steering ratio will also be realistic.

 

Setting a very narrow angle like you do between 120-270 degs will make every car behave something like a gokart. The steering wheel will be extremely responsive, that is why some aliens actually drive with settings like that, but it's also pretty unrealistic on the other hand.

[Nemo1965]

Well, the story with the Codemasters F1 series is simple enough: if you want a 1:1 ratio between your own and the virtual steering wheel, you should set the rotation to 360 degrees and then calibrate your wheel inside the game with that setting.

 

 

Thanks for this swift reply. So... 360 degrees... but then I would have to dial in the saturation of the wheel to absurd high numbers to get the wheel to respond, right? 

 

PS: Can you give an example of your own settings with a Codemasters-game?

Edited by Nemo1965, 22 February 2021 - 10:12.

[Myrvold]

PS: Can you give an example of your own settings with a Codemasters-game?

 

I don't do it like balage06. I ran F1 2020 in windowed mode, so I could more easily switch around on things, and used the ghub until I found the rotation that matched. For me that was 420 degrees IIRC (don't have access to it right now). 0 deadzone, 0 saturation etc.

However, I remember when I played it quite a bit, that at random times I had to change the saturation because the game decided to act up. But ye, I've never done that 360 degree thing.

 

I also remember soft lock working quite well in DiRT Rally 1, not DiRT Rally 2.0 for some reason. In DR2.0 I've ended up using 520 degrees no matter what car I drive. It's a bit too twitchy  with some of the old cars, and it is a bit to lazy for some of the new ones, but that's the sweetspot for me if I don't want to change around depending on the car I drive

[balage06]

I don't know, maybe Logitech wheels are handled differently, but most modern F1 cars don't even have a full 360 degree rotation and the official recommendation is also 360 AFAIK, so 420 shouldn't be necessary.

[Nemo1965]

You are all driving me mad! I will make a short film about my wheel and rotation because I think there is some huge misunderstanding about what 320 degrees of rotation mean. 

 

News follows...

[noikeee]

Usually this is pretty simple and very quick to check if it's working well or not. If you turn your wheel 90º left, the wheel shown in game should also turn exactly 90º left. Turn it 180º it should turn 180º (upside down). Etc.

 

In some particular circumstances, some people will want it to not match exactly how it is in-game, which won't be realistic, but if you enjoy for example a slightly pointier car with less steering precision, and the lack of realism doesn't bother you, that's fine.

 

I wonder if you have something set wildly wrong to want much lower rotation. Maybe you have too strong force feedback and are struggling to turn in? And therefore are trying to compensate by getting the car to shoot into the corner with only the tiniest bit of steering. Personally I like force feedback quite light, I just want the information to be there to gently tell me what the car is doing, and give me just a little resistance into the corner, but I want it to be light enough so I can make sharp steering without too much effort.

[Nemo1965]

Usually this is pretty simple and very quick to check if it's working well or not. If you turn your wheel 90º left, the wheel shown in game should also turn exactly 90º left. Turn it 180º it should turn 180º (upside down). Etc.

In some particular circumstances, some people will want it to not match exactly how it is in-game, which won't be realistic, but if you enjoy for example a slightly pointier car with less steering precision, and the lack of realism doesn't bother you, that's fine.

I wonder if you have something set wildly wrong to want much lower rotation. Maybe you have too strong force feedback and are struggling to turn in? And therefore are trying to compensate by getting the car to shoot into the corner with only the tiniest bit of steering. Personally I like force feedback quite light, I just want the information to be there to gently tell me what the car is doing, and give me just a little resistance into the corner, but I want it to be light enough so I can make sharp steering without too much effort.

Exactly what you write. The wheel in F1 2014 never turns more than 100 degrees either side. In my GitHub that means a max rotation of 200 degrees. I think that your guess about the force feedback could be right... This evening I’ll experience a little more.