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Point for fastest lap


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#1 smr

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:08

The FIA World Motor Sport Council has approved plans for an extra Formula 1 World Championship point to be awarded for fastest lap, starting from the opening race of the 2019 season in Melbourne.

 

The initiative, which was not mentioned in Thursday's WMSC bulletin, now has to be passed by an e-vote of the Formula 1 Commission to be added to the Sporting Regulations before the first race.

 

It had already gone through the Sporting Working Group and the Strategy Group, and would usually go to the Commission before the WMSC. However, on this occasion, the e-vote was not completed beforehand, so the usual approval procedure was reversed.

Formula E also awards a point for fastest lap, but unlike in the all-electric series, in F1 the bonus point will only be awarded if the driver concerned finishes in the top 10.

 

This is to stop drivers who are well outside the points and with nothing to lose making a last minute stop for fresh tyres.

The change takes F1 back to its roots, as a point was awarded for fastest lap over the first 10 years of the World Championship in 1950-’59.

It was crucial to the outcome in 1958, when Mike Hawthorn pipped Stirling Moss to the title.

Had an extra point been awarded for setting fastest lap in 2008, Felipe Massa would have beaten Lewis Hamilton to that year's title - with the proviso that none of the drivers were competing on the basis that scoring fastest lap was relevant.

That is the only example since 2000 where fastest lap points would have altered the drivers' champion.

 

 

 

https://www.motorspo...s-2019/4348938/

 

This should spice things up a bit towards the end of the race! :) Great idea.


Edited by smr, 08 March 2019 - 10:09.


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#2 Priyantha Bleeker

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:10

Great idea ;-) It makes a bit more sense then to turn up the motors to the end of the race :D



#3 w1Y

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:11

Whoever is 3rd is going to get a lot of these as there will be such a big gap to 4th they will be able to pit and basically get a free point.

Cant wait until someone bins it going for it

it may also persuade anyone who os comfortable to take their last pit stop as late as possible

Edited by w1Y, 08 March 2019 - 10:13.


#4 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:11

Urgh, ridiculous idea. Not looking forward to backmarkers changing to a set of fresh tyres in an attempt to score a FL point and interfering with the race at the front. Fastest lap is a completely meaningless stat anyway; anybody outside of the top 10 would have an incentive to go against the objective of racing itself, which is to complete a race distance as quickly as possible. No please.

 

Edit: ah, should have read the article I suppose. Still not a fan though. Same argument applies and I find it too gimmicky in any case.


Edited by FullOppositeLock, 08 March 2019 - 10:15.


#5 JeePee

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:12

If we have a huge gap to the top 3 again, most of the time the driver who is last of the Merc/Ferrari's/Bulls will get this.



#6 ANF

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:13

New rules to be decided the week before Melbourne? Is Bernie back again?

#7 JeePee

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:14

If you are P11 and have a huge gap behind, you can pit and steal a point from one of the guys in top 10.



#8 Diablobb81

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:15

Urgh, ridiculous idea. Not looking forward to backmarkers changing to a set of fresh tyres in an attempt to score a FL point and interfering with the race at the front. Fastest lap is a completely meaningless stat anyway; anybody outside of the top 10 would have an incentive to go against the objective of racing itself, which is to complete a race distance as quickly as possible. No please.

 


Fastest lap point will only be awarded to those in the top 10. Not so bad but stupid if we again have a gap between top 3 teams and rest. An extra point for the guy in 6th place? Brilliant. P.S. Please read the article before commenting.

Edited by Diablobb81, 08 March 2019 - 10:16.


#9 smr

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:16

Urgh, ridiculous idea. Not looking forward to backmarkers changing to a set of fresh tyres in an attempt to score a FL point and interfering with the race at the front. Fastest lap is a completely meaningless stat anyway; anybody outside of the top 10 would have an incentive to go against the objective of racing itself, which is to complete a race distance as quickly as possible. No please.

 

Well it's not a meaningless stat now since it involves a point. And to the drivers it's obviously not meaningless because you often hear one or two of them on comms asking their engineer what the fastest time is, so I'm sure there are quite a few of them who we don't hear, asking them same thing, so it must mean something to them. 


Edited by smr, 08 March 2019 - 10:16.


#10 lustigson

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:17

Apparently, online drivers in the top 10 are eligible for the extra point.



#11 Priyantha Bleeker

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:18

If you are P11 and have a huge gap behind, you can pit and steal a point from one of the guys in top 10.

Nope ;) Read the text a bit better, and you should have read that this only applies to the drivers inside the top 10 :)



#12 ANF

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:19

Perhaps a point for fastest lap will encourage the top teams to pick up the pace a bit during the race. Or, perhaps, save the tyres even more so they can push towards the end of the race...

#13 thuGG

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:19

I like it.



#14 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:20

Well it's not a meaningless stat now since it involves a point. And to the drivers it's obviously not meaningless because you often hear one or two of them on comms asking their engineer what the fastest time is, so I'm sure there are quite a few of them who we don't hear, asking them same thing, so it must mean something to them. 

 

It's not entirely meaningless in its current form since drivers may have it in their contracts that they get paid extra for a fastest lap (I know Red Bull do this), but from a racing perspective it is a meaningless stat. Going fastest over one lap to achieve the extra point is probably to the detriment of the average pace over the race distance, which is the ultimate objective of competing in a race. As has been said by others, under its proposed guise you are essentially giving p5/6 an extra point unless the midfield really have come a lot closer to the top three teams.



#15 Ivanhoe

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:20

If you are P11 and have a huge gap behind, you can pit and steal a point from one of the guys in top 10.


Nope, you have to finish in the top 10. Like the idea, could spice things up a bit.

#16 johnmhinds

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:23

Giving the commenters a reason point out that we’ve had years drivers not pushing and settling for positions 2/3 into the races seems like a super idea...

#17 muramasa

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:25

Utter and ultimate folly. Unbelievable. It's like awarding score for the player who ran the most or possessed the ball the most or shoot the most or whatever in football. Just laughable, pathetic. These organizers really dont have clue about racing and about Formula 1.



#18 JeePee

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:26

Nope ;) Read the text a bit better, and you should have read that this only applies to the drivers inside the top 10 :)

 

 

Nope, you have to finish in the top 10. Like the idea, could spice things up a bit.

I've read it correctly. I said steal a point, not gain a point.

 

If P6 has fastest lap, he has an extra point.

 

Pit in P11, get fastest lap, you 'steal' the point from P6 guy. You don't gain one yourself.

 

Right?



#19 Kev00

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:30

I don’t mind it in spec series but don’t see the point of awarding fastest lap or pole position points in F1 when there is only 2 teams capable of getting bonus points.

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#20 BuddyHolly

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:30

They really don't have a clue, do they. :rolleyes:



#21 TheManAlive

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:32

I've read it correctly. I said steal a point, not gain a point.

If P6 has fastest lap, he has an extra point.

Pit in P11, get fastest lap, you 'steal' the point from P6 guy. You don't gain one yourself.

Right?


I think you are right. Just trying to work out whether in a championship finale and your scenario is the two championship contenders how I would feel seeing it sway the final standings. Could be really exciting or a total farce but not sure which!

#22 BRK

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:32

Too 10 is a good threshold. Championship contenders won't risk turning up engines or pushing towards the end of a race; but that still leaves 4-6 cars from the midfield to gain important points.

#23 smr

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:36

Utter and ultimate folly. Unbelievable. It's like awarding score for the player who ran the most or possessed the ball the most or shoot the most or whatever in football. Just laughable, pathetic. These organizers really dont have clue about racing and about Formula 1.

 

Do you not think they consulted the drivers for their opinions on it? We'll see... I'm sure they'll be asked what they think, I could imagine a lot of them liking the idea.



#24 noikeee

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:37

I know there's historical precedent as the original WDC included points for FL, but I don't like it. Formula 1 is a sport in which the goal is to reach the finish line ahead of the others, not a game show in which you pick up bonuses along the way.
 
This is a bit like if in football you got extra league points for more shots on target or extra possession. No the goal is to score more than the opponent.


#25 Marklar

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:37

I think you are right. Just trying to work out whether in a championship finale and your scenario is the two championship contenders how I would feel seeing it sway the final standings. Could be really exciting or a total farce but not sure which!

imagine Bottas being far behind in the field and Mercedes pits him just to take Vettel a point away so that Hamilton wins the title

(or the other way around with Leclerc)

Boy, this community would be lit on that day for sure  :lol:

or better

Imagine Leclerc, Hamilton and Vettel are in a championship fight and all three can still win.

Hamilton is 1 point ahead of Vettel and has the FL, but Leclerc is right behind him, pushing and if he gets Hamilton he wins the championship.

Then Ferrari calls him to the pits, to set the fastest lap (while losing positions) to hand Vettel the title, since he takes away a point from Hamilton.

I kinda want to see that now.


Edited by Marklar, 08 March 2019 - 10:41.


#26 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:38

Not a big fan, but if they hand it out should be handed out to everyone, I do not see a problem in the last car on track two laps down trying for a fastest lap towards the end of the race, we could have Williams, Toro Rosso and McLaren doing their darnedest to sweep a point. For the big teams it would likely mean nothing in the bigger scope of things, if can potentially decide the Class B championship,

 

:cool:



#27 Ivanhoe

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:39

imagine Bottas being far behind in the field and Mercedes pits him just to take Vettel a point away so that Hamilton wins the title
(or the other way around with Leclerc)
Boy, this community would be lit on that day for sure :lol:

Like I said it could spice things up a bit and give another dimension to the role of wingman 😎

Although I must admit that I question whether setting a fastest lap on fresh rubber in the closing laps of a race deserves a WDC (and WCC?) point.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 08 March 2019 - 10:42.


#28 P123

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:42

Dumb idea. Fastest lap is one of the most irrelevant stats. I guess this will make it more so, with stragglers at the rear of the field jumping into the pits 3 laps form the end for the softest option of tyre.

Edit: Oh, only the top 10. Even dumber then.

Edited by P123, 08 March 2019 - 10:43.


#29 Disgrace

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:43

If we have a huge gap to the top 3 again, most of the time the driver who is last of the Merc/Ferrari's/Bulls will get this.

 

Yeah, this. I don't have a problem against the idea, but it's only going to widen the gap between the top and midfield.



#30 noikeee

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:44

imagine Bottas being far behind in the field and Mercedes pits him just to take Vettel a point away so that Hamilton wins the title

(or the other way around with Leclerc)

Boy, this community would be lit on that day for sure  :lol:

or better

Imagine Leclerc, Hamilton and Vettel are in a championship fight and all three can still win.

Hamilton is 1 point ahead of Vettel and has the FL, but Leclerc is right behind him, pushing and if he gets Hamilton he wins the championship.

Then Ferrari calls him to the pits, to set the fastest lap (while losing positions) to hand Vettel the title, since he takes away a point from Hamilton.

I kinda want to see that now.

Hamilton is 1st, Vettel is 2nd, Bottas is 3rd. Vettel is provisional world champion per a single point as he's got the fastest lap. There's 5 laps to go. Mercedes pits Bottas and gives him the softest tyres to try and nick the FL from Vettel and therefore give the championship to Lewis.
 
Bottas comes out of the pits in 9th place. Does a great lap immediately, the Mercedes pits rejoice and start celebrating. BUT, he cooks his tyres and immediately starts dropping back. Raikkonen and Giovanizzi overtake him in the last lap for 9th then 10th, therefore handing back the FL point and the championship back to Vettel again.


#31 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:46

Fastest laps last five years, it is fast lap only, not fast lap while in top 10.

2018
--
1	BOTTAS Valtteri	        7	
2	RICCIARDO Daniel	4
3	HAMILTON Lewis	        3	
4	VETTEL Sebastian	3	
5	VERSTAPPEN Max	        2	
6	RAIKKONEN Kimi	        1	
7	MAGNUSSEN Kevin	        1	

2017
--
1	HAMILTON Lewis	        7	
2	VETTEL Sebastian	5
3	RAIKKONEN Kimi	        2	
4	BOTTAS Valtteri	        2	
5	PEREZ Sergio	        1	
6	ALONSO Fernando	        1	
7	RICCIARDO Daniel	1	
8	VERSTAPPEN Max	        1	

2016
--
1	ROSBERG Nico	        6	
2	RICCIARDO Daniel	4	
3	HAMILTON Lewis	        3	
4	VETTEL Sebastian	3	
5	HULKENBERG Nico	        1	
6	KVYAT Daniil	        1	
7	RAIKKONEN Kimi	        1	
8	ALONSO Fernando	        1	
9	VERSTAPPEN Max	        1	

2015
--
1	HAMILTON Lewis	        8	
2	ROSBERG Nico	        5	
3	RICCIARDO Daniel	3	
4	RAIKKONEN Kimi	        2	
5	VETTEL Sebastian	1	

2014
--
1	HAMILTON Lewis	        7	
2	ROSBERG Nico	        5	
3	VETTEL Sebastian	2	
4	RAIKKONEN Kimi	        1	
5	MASSA Felipe	        1	
6	PEREZ Sergio	        1	
7	BOTTAS Valtteri	        1	
8	RICCIARDO Daniel	

:cool:


Edited by KWSN - DSM, 08 March 2019 - 10:50.


#32 Marklar

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:47

 

Hamilton is 1st, Vettel is 2nd, Bottas is 3rd. Vettel is provisional world champion per a single point as he's got the fastest lap. There's 5 laps to go. Mercedes pits Bottas and gives him the softest tyres to try and nick the FL from Vettel and therefore give the championship to Lewis.
 
Bottas comes out of the pits in 9th place. Does a great lap immediately, the Mercedes pits rejoice and start celebrating. BUT, he cooks his tyres and immediately starts dropping back. Raikkonen and Giovanizzi overtake him in the last lap for 9th then 10th, therefore handing back the FL point and the championship back to Vettel again.

 

If the driver finishes outside of the top 10 nobody gets the Fastest Lap Point I thought?



#33 BRK

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:50

imagine Bottas being far behind in the field and Mercedes pits him just to take Vettel a point away so that Hamilton wins the title

(or the other way around with Leclerc)

Boy, this community would be lit on that day for sure :lol:

or better

Imagine Leclerc, Hamilton and Vettel are in a championship fight and all three can still win.

Hamilton is 1 point ahead of Vettel and has the FL, but Leclerc is right behind him, pushing and if he gets Hamilton he wins the championship.


Losing team would appeal and the title will be decided after the season in Paris.

#34 P123

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:53

It would be a little sad if a close championship was decided on fastest laps.

#35 muramasa

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:57

It would be a little sad if a close championship was decided on fastest laps.

I'd say utter farce and tragedy.

 

 

Just scrap it.


Edited by muramasa, 08 March 2019 - 11:02.


#36 Dennista

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:59

How about 5 points for most overtakes in a race? T&Cs being overtaking your teammate doesn't count. Unlapping yourself is fair game.


Edited by Dennista, 08 March 2019 - 11:00.


#37 Kev00

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:03

Fastest laps last five years, it is fast lap only, not fast lap while in top 10.

2018
--
1	BOTTAS Valtteri	        7	
2	RICCIARDO Daniel	4
3	HAMILTON Lewis	        3	
4	VETTEL Sebastian	3	
5	VERSTAPPEN Max	        2	
6	RAIKKONEN Kimi	        1	
7	MAGNUSSEN Kevin	        1	

2017
--
1	HAMILTON Lewis	        7	
2	VETTEL Sebastian	5
3	RAIKKONEN Kimi	        2	
4	BOTTAS Valtteri	        2	
5	PEREZ Sergio	        1	
6	ALONSO Fernando	        1	
7	RICCIARDO Daniel	1	
8	VERSTAPPEN Max	        1	

2016
--
1	ROSBERG Nico	        6	
2	RICCIARDO Daniel	4	
3	HAMILTON Lewis	        3	
4	VETTEL Sebastian	3	
5	HULKENBERG Nico	        1	
6	KVYAT Daniil	        1	
7	RAIKKONEN Kimi	        1	
8	ALONSO Fernando	        1	
9	VERSTAPPEN Max	        1	

2015
--
1	HAMILTON Lewis	        8	
2	ROSBERG Nico	        5	
3	RICCIARDO Daniel	3	
4	RAIKKONEN Kimi	        2	
5	VETTEL Sebastian	1	

2014
--
1	HAMILTON Lewis	        7	
2	ROSBERG Nico	        5	
3	VETTEL Sebastian	2	
4	RAIKKONEN Kimi	        1	
5	MASSA Felipe	        1	
6	PEREZ Sergio	        1	
7	BOTTAS Valtteri	        1	
8	RICCIARDO Daniel	

:cool:

So I looked it up and the only non Merc, Ferrari and Red Bull drivers that would have scored a bonus point were Perez in 2014, Kvyat in 2016 and Alonso in 2017. One point each

#38 Kalmake

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:04

Monaco could be the biggest farce that comes of this. Very slow last stint as everyone will just try to save tyre for the fast lap. Leader very slow and cars behind even slower to not be in his dirty air.



#39 Ellios

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:05

Well I don't know, I like the idea of it but then wouldn't want to see WDC decided over it, so then what's the point! ? :stoned:

 

Perhaps, the fastest car would naturally take the most FL's anyway

 

Give it a go and see what happens



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#40 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:05

Given the large amount of point on offer for the top 3, the chances of this really affecting the championship outcome is minuscule. (as the table above shows.)

What it will do is push those later in the top 10 to race to the flag.

It's a bit meaningless - but F1 needs everyone to talk about something, right?

I really don’t get why people are so up in arms....

Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 08 March 2019 - 11:12.


#41 NoForumForOldPole

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:05

Difficult to judge it before first race. At least they are trying to spice things up without using artificial means like DRS or Fan boost.

Edited by NoForumForOldPole, 08 March 2019 - 11:06.


#42 TomNokoe

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:08

Such a small change ruins so much. It's a terrible decision.

Deciding that the fastest lap is worth more than pole "because we don't want to decide a championship on Saturday" is such a backwards thought process.

Pole - 90 secs, no points
Fastest lap - 92.5secs, 1 point

The fake hype from David Croft watching the timing screens pretending it matters.

The ridiculously complicated end-of-season championship permutations. Literally, just imagine.

Honestly.

The driver who is P6 out of Merc-Ferrari-Red Bull is just going to pit on lap 58/60, outlap, FL, chequered flag. Boring.

There's so much wrong with it. So many contrived final stint strategies and all of the pointless speculation from commentators. I can't stand it.

Edited by TomNokoe, 08 March 2019 - 11:16.


#43 Risil

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:10

I remembered after my initial outrage that with the 2010 points system, 1 point isn't very much at all, just 4 percent of a win, i.e. a third as valuable as it was in the fifties.

We might occasionally see some strange tactics in the top ten but this feels pretty superficial. Does Indycar award a point for fastest lap?

#44 baddog

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:10

Utter bullshit lol



#45 cpbell

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:18

I've been wanting them to bring this back for years! :clap:   For those moaning about the possible effects on the WDC, read up on the final GP of the 1958 season, when, despite getting the point for FL, Stirling lost the Championship as a result of Phil Hill moving aside for Hawthorn.  In the modern era in which GPs have reverted to something approaching the two-driver cars and 10 hour races of 1931 in terms of drivers circulating well below the limit, this should reintroduce an incentive for them to push late-on.  If a driver might only lose one position on track by stopping for a set of the softest compund tyres, is it worth doing so (if he gets FL and can use tyre advantage to regain his position, he'll have a net +1 points gain, if not, he might be on -1 or -2 points)?

 

EDIT: There ought be be at least one point for Pole as well.


Edited by cpbell, 08 March 2019 - 11:19.


#46 Kalmake

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:18

Difficult to judge it before first race. At least they are trying to spice things up without using artificial means like DRS or Fan boost.

Oh wow, I forgot about DRS in this. Fastest lap isn't going to happen without it. Teammates co-operating might be crucial for getting the FL point.



#47 mirrorboy

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:19

F1 is about speed and driving abilities, so for me make makes a lot of sense to reward also the driver who sets the fastest lap.



#48 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:21

It has taken us all of 30 minutes to come up with multiple scenario’s where this rule would make a farce of the sport. Well done F1, you’ve once again outdone yourself in the stupidity department by introducing an ill thought through rule a mere days before the season starts.

#49 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:22

Such a small change ruins so much. It's a terrible decision.

Deciding that the fastest lap is worth more than pole "because we don't want to decide a championship on Saturday" is such a backwards thought process.

Pole - 90 secs, no points
Fastest lap - 92.5secs, 1 point

The fake hype from David Croft watching the timing screens pretending it matters.

The ridiculously complicated end-of-season championship permutations. Literally, just imagine.

Honestly.

The driver who is P6 out of Merc-Ferrari-Red Bull is just going to pit on lap 58/60, outlap, FL, chequered flag. Boring.

There's so much wrong with it. So many contrived final stint strategies and all of the pointless speculation from commentators. I can't stand it.

But remember, F1 fans NEED something to moan about!

 

I'll be amazed if this has any tangible impact on anything in the next 20 years. (Other than Croft making a meal out of nothing.)

 

Its basically like a consolation goal where the team is already 5-0 down. 


Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 08 March 2019 - 11:26.


#50 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:25

It has taken us all of 30 minutes to come up with multiple scenario’s where this rule would make a farce of the sport. Well done F1, you’ve once again outdone yourself in the stupidity department by introducing an ill thought through rule a mere days before the season starts.

Which are all extraordinarily unlikely to happen. All of them.